Southampton Home post match, 1-2 loss.

[reynard]

Really don't know where to begin after that.

The first 33 minutes we were absolute garbage. They played with tempo and urgency and we played like we were heading for the summer break. Then there was a bad tackle by their player, handbags between him and Chilwell and we woke up for 5 minutes. Maddison played in a great free-kick and corners. Then we went to sleep and conceded, as often we do, a goal just before half-time.

Game pretty much over. They have ten men and to be fair to Puel, he changed the unbelievably negative first-half set up at half time. As expected we huffed and puffed but their keeper barely had a save to make and we simply don't have the creativity and tactics to win these sort of matches.

I know this will upset the Puel supporters but very serious questions need to be asked about what is going on. This sort of reverse is becoming a regular pattern against sides who don't really want to be very adventurous.

We start at home against a side missing at least 5 of their best players and with a striker who hasn't scored in 21 games with 3 defensive midfielders and a solitary striker. Yet again the gaps between Vardy and the rest were far too wide. There was one time in the first half where Maddison had the ball around 35 yards out from goal and only had Vardy, surrounded by 4 defenders as a forward option. The three midfielders were still in the defensive formation some 20 yards behind the play. What happened? we had no passing options and the attack broke down.

Movement off the ball? Almost non-existent. It was interesting to note that Barnes, who has spent most of the season playing under a different coach, made more runs off the ball than any other player. Why do our players not move off the ball more?

Second half down the right hand side Ricardo and Ghezzal or Ricardo and Gray had countless opportunities to pass and move and create space by doing so. Though very occasionally they did mostly, and Ricardo was the main culprit, one of them passed and the other just stood still. To me this exemplifes that not enough is being done on the training pitch.

 

As a rule we don't move the ball quickly enough and we don't have sufficient off the ball movement. Our tempo is too slow and we are simply too passive, especially at home.

 

Back to back home defeats to Southampton and Cardiff is simply not good enough. Both games 0 points, very few saves made by the opponent's keepers, little tempo, even less quality and a manager who I have to question whether his approach to home games against lower ranked opponents is good or imaginative enough. He seems to want us to play the slow passing game of Spain 15 years ago but without the required personel to do. The game has moved on since then but I'm really not sure our manager has.

I'm not calling for him to be sacked but questions do need to be asked. I did wonder today of the players were really playing for him.

 

[whoareyaaa]

1 minute ago, Mark said:

And that is the problem, we’re asking a defensive midfielder to create / play a position he doesn’t suit. Likewise with Ndidi when he’s in a three.. one of them with a Drinkwater type player and we might progress.

Mendy can play forward passes ala Drinkwater but Puel doesn't want him to attack or look forward and today with those instructions of protecting and not looking forward has cost us 2 goals.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Mark said:

And that is the problem, we’re asking a defensive midfielder to create / play a position he doesn’t suit. Likewise with Ndidi when he’s in a three.. one of them with a Drinkwater type player and we might progress.

Absolutely, I like Choudhury and Ndidi's athleticism but they should be getting forward only when the opportunity presents itself and essentially to compliment some much better attack minded players. We still only ever have 1 or 2 players in danger zones when the ball comes in, I cant hack it anymore. It's making me very ill.

[Gubbins]

4 minutes ago, Mark said:

And that is the problem, we’re asking a defensive midfielder to create / play a position he doesn’t suit. Likewise with Ndidi when he’s in a three.. one of them with a Drinkwater type player and we might progress.

I don't disagree, but we don't have one! I don't know what the Silva situation is about but it's pretty obvious hes not gonna play and after that you have bloody King and James. We need to get the likes of them out and get new attacking player in.

[yorkie1999]

Well.. Good job we rested the players against Newport cos they obviously need it and I think Maddison is a very lucky lad to play for a premiership side cos he ain’t as good as what people make out.

[vanity]

1 hour ago, 5waller5 said:

I used to think this ..... but now i reflect on it i don't think it's true.

 

Yes, he plays young players.

 

But does he develop their talent?? Think of the young players that looks better than his debut games.....

Gray - nope
Ineacho - nope
Maddison - nope
Ndidi - nope

Diabate - Nope

Ghezal - Nope

 

Chilwell - Possibly the exception, or might just be that we are seeing him play

You need to add Maguire, Barnes, and Hamza to the list, they have all significantly improved under Claude. Chilwell has really improved from the inconsistent mess he was and he clearly credits Claude, he was just in the paper defending him, and after the Man City win he was on the pitch after pointing at Claude for the fans to clap and appreciate him. Ndidi has absolutely improved on the ball, but he was so bad and indecisive on it to start that it can be hard to see at times. It is there though, he is clearly more decisive and confident.

 

Think of it another way -- if we include the older players, most everyone on the team has improved MASSIVELY on the ball. Go pull up some of our matches from the 2016-2017 season on footbalia.net, watch when we play good sides how we cannot maintain possession well enough to advance out of our own half, our ONLY solution was hoof ball. There is a Man U match I am remembering but it isn't up there, JFC the comments on the game thread from our first match vs Man U after our title winning season, we were so helpless against their press it made half of us turn the game off early.

 

But that is no longer the case. When players like Morgan, Fuchs, and Simpson play, they aren't Ricardo or Chilwell on the ball, but they are massively improved. We can play the ball out of our side of the field with relative proficiency. Teams do not dominate us with the press when we play hard, but they were able to do so easily throughout the 2016-2017 season. Claude improves players. He always has.

 

I think you are right to point to some of the failures. But Diabate was always a project, clearly, he only got gametime because we were so hapless on the ball for a spell with the players we had available. Puel has had Ghezzal and Maddison for half a season, I think those warrant more patience. Gray has definitely not improved as far as I can see, that is a huge developmental failure from Claude, as Gray has precisely the skills we need out wide to break down well-defended boxes, but his decision-making while on the ball is poor and I question his effort, he is very much a confidence player and goes away for games like Mahrez did, but without the ability to still have that bit of magic to score for us. Iheanacho is another developmental failure. If anything they both appear to have regressed, though Iheanacho's original level is difficult to ascertain, you watch his Man City highlights he is dumping goals in from point blank range, not too much special there.

 

Frankly, I still do not understand what it is that Iheanacho does well other than complain when dispossessed.

 

I also think tactically Claude is great at making adjustments, but far too slow to make them. I think we are handicapped playing his pet 4231 with Vardy up top, Vardy doesn't come back to the ball to involve teammates enough (though he has noticeably improved in that department in recent games, it went lacking today). Our club is filled with poor finishers who miss point blank chances most every game. FFS last game was ridiculous all the point blank chances we missed, and we fluffed a number of excellent opportunities today as well.

 

We need to add better finishers to the side (we may have done so today with Barnes, but we could do with another wing who can actually score goals). We need a big striker strong in his hold up play who can play our wings and AMs into dangerous parts of the pitch. Vardy was helpless today in the 2H bc the game demanded a different type of striker but we don't have one good at the style of play we have. Sending in crosses to an isolated Vardy is a terrible strategy, IDK wtf we are doing with that, it is a waste of possession and simply doesn't work, we need to mix it up and play wings who can beat their man around the edge or cut inside, draw attention from defenders, and look for Vards or Mads making runs. My point with all this is this team is not a finished product. We start one of the youngest sides in the league, and development like this takes time. It can absolutely take years for players to begin reacting instinctively rather than thinking about what they are doing and being more slow with it. We are adding good pieces, but we have to find a striker alternative or this will never take off. Vardy can remain the starter in the 433 against elite sides, but playing him in the 4231 simply doesn't work, when he doesn't work to come back to get involved we are at a massive disadvantage. 

 

Alternatively, we can fire Claude. Then what? We are losing recently because our players are making dumb mistakes defending. Two absolutely needless PKs the last two games have f'd us. Slop, lazy defending today gifted a second goal before the half, watching our defenders trot back as though Long wasn't a threat when he had gotten the header and was one-on-one with Mendy was insane, just watch the highlight. That is the sort of failure of effort we are dealing with. That is the problem we need to see fixed. If that means playing a young bloody side while sitting anyone who won the title, so be it. We need to wake our players the fuch up and get them uncomfortable, they are far too casual most every game that isn't against the top 6. If we hire a new manager, he will either continue with what we are doing, or he will go back to counterattacking exclusively and ensure we don't reach Europe ever again. We need to be patient and let this play out, chopping managers whenever the team starts playing poorly doesn't help us. Better to bench the veterans and let the younger boys play more if we fall out of it for Europe, get all the development they can and position us for a top-6 run next season when we have a striker actually suited for this system, and the young boys have had the chance to play some.

Edited 12 January 2019 by vanity

[H.a.r.r.y]

can the 'puel in brigade' please explain that 90 minutes of sh8t?

 

need to win, who should we bring on? I know a winger who has only played about 3 premier league games and has proven to be dogsh8te, yeah that oughta do it.

 

Can you honestly say puel is the right man for the job?

Cardiff, NEWPORT, Southampton (10 MEN) who's next? 

we're the gift that just keeps on giving.

[LCCFox96]

1 minute ago, H.a.r.r.y said:

can the 'puel in brigade' please explain that 90 minutes of sh8t?

 

need to win, who should we bring on? I know a winger who has only played about 3 premier league games and has proven to be dogsh8te, yeah that oughta do it.

 

Can you honestly say puel is the right man for the job?

Cardiff, NEWPORT, Southampton (10 MEN) who's next? 

we're the gift that just keeps on giving.

 

Who would you have brought on instead? The out of form striker who gets jeered by his own fans, the young centre back or the defensive right back?

 

You could have pushed Ricardo forward with Simpson behind but even that would have been pointless as Southampton sat in. 

[H.a.r.r.y]

1 minute ago, LCCFox96 said:

 

Who would you have brought on instead? The out of form striker who gets jeered by his own fans, the young centre back or the defensive right back?

 

You could have pushed Ricardo forward with Simpson behind but even that would have been pointless as Southampton sat in. 

you just answered your own question

[LCCFox96]

We were poor today and the makers of our own downfall. Kasper's kick out for the first goal was woeful and Mendy made a hash of it. The second goal was an absolute shambles and was criminal to concede straight after being gifted a lifeline with the red card. That game was always going to be tough as soon as went 1-0 down and the second goal on HT gave us a mountain to climb. A bad day at the office.

[AKCJ]

3 minutes ago, LCCFox96 said:

 

Who would you have brought on instead? The out of form striker who gets jeered by his own fans, the young centre back or the defensive right back?

 

You could have pushed Ricardo forward with Simpson behind but even that would have been pointless as Southampton sat in. 

Morgan off for Simpson.

 

Play Ricardo further forward.

[LCCFox96]

1 minute ago, H.a.r.r.y said:

you just answered your own question

 

I'm not sure I did

[LCCFox96]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

Morgan off for Simpson.

 

Play Ricardo further forward.

Why though? Ricardo was barely in our half after the red card. Might as well have rolled the dice and gone with one of the attacking options.

Edited 12 January 2019 by LCCFox96

[lcfcell]

I’ve seen a lot of people saying he won’t go till the summer but I’m not sure I can’t handle 5 more months of us being rubbish at home, our home games used to be exciting now it’s a chore 

[H.a.r.r.y]

1 minute ago, LCCFox96 said:

 

I'm not sure I did

"You could have pushed Ricardo forward with Simpson behind" far better idea then bloody mahrez replacement no.1

[reynard]

9 minutes ago, vanity said:

You need to add Maguire, Barnes, and Hamza to the list, they have all significantly improved under Claude. Chilwell has really improved from the inconsistent mess he was and he clearly credits Claude, he was just in the paper defending him, and after the Man City win he was on the pitch after pointing at Claude for the fans to clap and appreciate him. Ndidi has absolutely improved on the ball, but he was so bad and indecisive on it to start that it can be hard to see at times. It is there though, he is clearly more decisive and confident.

 

Think of it another way -- if we include the older players, most everyone on the team has improved MASSIVELY on the ball. Go pull up some of our matches from the 2016-2017 season on footbalia.net, watch when we play good sides how we cannot maintain possession well enough to advance out of our own half, our ONLY solution was hoof ball. There is a Man U match I am remembering but it isn't up there, JFC the comments on the game thread from our first match vs Man U after our title winning season, we were so helpless against their press it made half of us turn the game off early.

 

But that is no longer the case. When players like Morgan, Fuchs, and Simpson play, they aren't Ricardo or Chilwell on the ball, but they are massively improved. We can play the ball out of our side of the field with relative proficiency. Teams do not dominate us with the press when we play hard, but they were able to do so easily throughout the 2016-2017 season. Claude improves players. He always has.

 

I think you are right to point to some of the failures. But Diabate was always a project, clearly, he only got gametime because we were so hapless on the ball for a spell with the players we had available. Puel has had Ghezzal and Maddison for half a season, I think those warrant more patience. Gray has definitely not improved as far as I can see, that is a huge developmental failure from Claude, as Gray has precisely the skills we need out wide to break down well-defended boxes, but his decision-making while on the ball is poor and I question his effort, he is very much a confidence player and goes away for games like Mahrez did, but without the ability to still have that bit of magic to score for us. Iheanacho is another developmental failure. If anything they both appear to have regressed, though Iheanacho's original level is difficult to ascertain, you watch his Man City highlights he is dumping goals in from point blank range, not too much special there.

 

Frankly, I still do not understand what it is that Iheanacho does well other than complain when dispossessed.

 

I also think tactically Claude is great at making adjustments, but far too slow to make them. I think we are handicapped playing his pet 4231 with Vardy up top, Vardy doesn't come back to the ball to involve teammates enough (though he has noticeably improved in that department in recent games, it went lacking today). Our club is filled with poor finishers who miss point blank chances most every game. FFS last game was ridiculous all the point blank chances we missed, and we fluffed a number of excellent opportunities today as well.

 

We need to add better finishers to the side (we may have done so today with Barnes, but we could do with another wing who can actually score goals). We need a big striker strong in his hold up play who can play our wings and AMs into dangerous parts of the pitch. Vardy was helpless today in the 2H bc the game demanded a different type of striker but we don't have one good at the style of play we have. Sending in crosses to an isolated Vardy is a terrible strategy, IDK wtf we are doing with that, it is a waste of possession and simply doesn't work, we need to mix it up and play wings who can beat their man around the edge or cut inside, draw attention from defenders, and look for Vards or Mads making runs. My point with all this is this team is not a finished product. We start one of the youngest sides in the league, and development like this takes time. It can absolutely take years for players to begin reacting instinctively rather than thinking about what they are doing and being more slow with it. We are adding good pieces, but we have to find a striker alternative or this will never take off. Vardy can remain the starter in the 433 against elite sides, but playing him in the 4231 simply doesn't work, when he doesn't work to come back to get involved we are at a massive disadvantage. 

 

Alternatively, we can fire Claude. Then what? We are losing recently because our players are making dumb mistakes defending. Two absolutely needless PKs the last two games have f'd us. Slop, lazy defending today gifted a second goal before the half, watching our defenders trot back as though Long wasn't a threat when he had gotten the header and was one-on-one with Mendy was insane, just watch the highlight. That is the sort of failure of effort we are dealing with. That is the problem we need to see fixed. If that means playing a young bloody side while sitting anyone who won the title, so be it. We need to wake our players the fuch up and get them uncomfortable, they are far too casual most every game that isn't against the top 6.

There are some very good points here but ultimatley it is up to any manager to manage what he has and to develop a startegy for each and every game which ensures we are using the talents and skills available to their fullest.

I must question whether he is or even can do this. Whilst we have been very good against some teams there is a regular pattern developing where we seem unable to cope with less adventurous teams.

Vardy was poor today but blaming him for the problem is the wrong way to approach things. He had no service today at all. Our plan A is to try and keep possession and to apparently move the ball methodically and really quite slowly. We don't appear to have any other way of playing. Puel must develop other ways of playing. Do we really need 3 midfielders all of whom offer exactly the same in a game like today?

We're doing Ok almost despite ourselves. The next few matches look tough and if we can't pick up points against sides like Southampton and Cardiff on a more regular basis we are asking for trouble in the long run as we won't be able to keep picking up results agains the so-called big 6 to compensate.

 

[UniFox21]

1 minute ago, lcfcell said:

I’ve seen a lot of people saying he won’t go till the summer but I’m not sure I can’t handle 5 more months of us being rubbish at home, our home games used to be exciting now it’s a chore 

Don't go then?

 

[String fellow]

The last 3 PL results (against Cardiff, Everton and Southampton) have followed a pattern - City won the away fixture but lost at home.

[LCCFox96]

1 minute ago, H.a.r.r.y said:

"You could have pushed Ricardo forward with Simpson behind" far better idea then bloody mahrez replacement no.1

 

Not sure that would've been anymore effective due to how far forward Ricardo was/was allowed to be because Southampton sat back. Imo, at that point in the game, there wasn't really an option on the bench that would have altered the game. Goes back to the 'big striker' argument again. 

[StriderHiryu]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Our problems lie in not being able to break teams down. The first thing anyone wanting to make an impact would do, is get more creativity in to the team. We play with either 3 defensive midfielders or 2 and zero creativity behind Vardy. Maddison is woeful at the minute and Albrighton is never going to offer much, he's entering one of his abysmal spells. Gray has zero end product, his crossing is like Chilwell's, they have an ability of crossing it straight at the opposition or behind the line of attack and the momentum is lost.

 

We simply have to go and buy. It's not necessarily about spending a fortune but go and get a proper box to box midfielder with a track record for being able to forward pass, such as Hector Herrera at Porto. Contract up in the summer and by all accounts wants a new challenge. Then go and get Brais Mendes, activate his release clause which is about £20m and a bargain in today's market. 

 

That would honestly he a start, especially with Barnes now back. Another option in attack would help but that might be asking too much to get 3 new players in. 

This is true (and I largely agree), but it's not only about individual ability, but learning to attack as a team. The way a successful possession based attacking team functions effectively is by shifting the opposition around, making space, playing through the half spaces and playing quick give and go to break the opponent's defensive block.  Let's wind the clock back exactly 12 months, when we had a world class inside forward by the name of Riyad Mahrez. Were we more creative? I'd actually argue we are slightly more creative now because of our symmetrical fullbacks that can bomb on than we were with Mahrez. But what Riyad gave us on many occasion, was a moment of magic in a game where we were largely turgid and dog shit. Riyad was always blamed for being greedy (which he blatantly was by the way), but he knew that in the Leicester team he's either going to pass it to Vardy or have a go himself, because that's where 90% (I'm exaggerating this stat I know) of our goals in open play came from. But that wasn't a long term solution, it was hoping our maverick player would pull one out of the bad instead of being a team that can consistently systematically break down stubborn defences.

 

I would be shocked if another inside forward doesn't come into the club in the summer and likely another central midfielder, but in order for us to solve our attacking problems, it has to be worked on day in and day out on the training ground. It can be done, as an example I would point you in the direction of the work Marcelo Bielsa has done at Leeds. He has completely reinvented them as a team. It's the Championship I know, but the movement, the speed of play, the shifting of the ball to beat the opponent's block is exemplary. To achieve it Bielsa's done some quite outlandish stuff e.g. Kemar Roofe was considered a joke player by Leeds fans, but he was the forward that was prepared to put in the most work and kill himself for the team, so Bielsa moved him up top. I'm using them as an example because Leeds did not go out and buy their team, in fact most of their players are the same ones they had last year, it's just the difference good coaching (and spying on other teams!) makes. Of course it remains to be seen if Bielsa can get them to play like that in the top league if / when they make it.

 

This is Puel's job till the rest of the season and likely beyond. We have all of these highly promising young guns on our hands, but now we need Puel to turn them into top class players. His track record is impressive and as we are not in a relegation fight time should be on his side, but the crowd is literally getting restless. Today James Maddison was a massive disappointment. Too much going for glory and long shots, when he should be thinking about what David Silva would do who for me is the best creative midfielder in the division and the type of player we sorely need but whom is very difficult to go out and buy. Puel somehow needs to get through to Maddison, Barnes and Gray and get them operating as a successful attacking unit. That will be what defnies them as players in their careers. Will they go on to be top players, or just another average premiership player that no ones ever remembers? It's up to them.

 

My point is that this is not just a case of buying our way out of trouble. Barcelona spent 150m to bring in Coutinho to be their Iniesta replacement, but he doesn't start for them because he's not fitting into their system (they prefer the excellent Arthur instead). This is the same Coutinho that absolutely smashed our league. So sometimes even buying a player who on paper should be excellent isn't the answer to a team's woes.
 

Today was a training ground exercise of attack versus defence, where once again the defence team came out on top. I'm pretty sure that the defence team is massively in the lead against the attack at the King Power! Let's all just hope and pray it can be sorted out...

[HankMarvin]

any one post this cba looking

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8179270/leicester-protesters-puel-out-signs-confiscated-before-southampton-defeat/

 

lee twatty in the paper again

[Bourbon Fox]

Today's done it for me, I've been unsure for months. 

Maybe I'll calm down and get back on the fence after the weekend

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

2 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

That’s easy for you to say Claude.

 

Seriously though; performances are not this manager’s responsibility now ?.

 

A laughable position to take which has no credibility whatsoever.

Im back @Ceirboy, thought you'd like to know

 

Regarding this particular loss: that foup from Mendy for the penalty was ridiculous. And Mendy's assist for the second goal too. Both outrageous ways to concede. No way in hell that can be pinned on the manager and i dont think anyone complains about him for that anyway to be fair

 

As far as this match goes, it did not start out following the trend of sideways passing forever that people moan about. We actually had several chances to break and get in good forward positions, but it seemed every single player except Hamza was making terrible passes that didnt reach their man. That is also nothing to do with the manager..they were just awful. Better passes when there were simple opportunities and we would have had scoring chances

 

Scoring against 10 men who are all camped inside the box is not easy. We managed it in the end but unfortunately only once

 

In what way exactly was the manager to blame for this one? Loads of people moaning about him wanted him to play that exact team! After the fact they complain about 3 defensive centre mids

 

I dont even see that game as about the manager in particular. Shocking first half performances from almost the whole team lost that game

 

Southampton werent camped in their own half either. We could have done a lot better but our young team seemed to lose their composure for the whole first half

[ozvaldo]

38 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

Lots of talk about the insanity of playing 3 DMs against a bottom 3 side but what other options did we have in midfield? And it's not like Choudery was playing in a DM position he was playing well up the pitch. 

For me the biggest problem in a pretty terrible first half ( Other than Mendy's idiocy and finally managing to do the unwanted double of conceding in the first 15 and just before half time in the same game!) Was our utterly terrible passing. It was so bad from pretty much every player. It was like watching the last few games under Shakespeare but without the hoofing. Now you can argue that we should play in a different style but passing is pretty damn important regardless of how you play and if you pass that poorly then you're always gonna struggle. 

2nd half I honestly don't know what more we could have done with the players we have. We literally threw everything we had at them but we simply don't have good enough players to break down a block of 9 players in the penalty area. That's not even true as we did break them down but thanks to Mendy being a twat we needed more.

There is next to no point in getting in a new manager as it won't make much difference. What we really need far more is some new attacking players!

 

He could have started Hamza in with Maddison in a 2-man, then Barnes, Gray/Rachid and Albrighton in front.

 

For me, Maddison drops so deep anyway, just start him deeper in central midfield.  

[Itsthejoeker]

36 minutes ago, woddyuk said:

Been a long time since I've heard "anyone" out chants. 

Can't remember any for 

Sousa, Sven, Raneri,(obviously) Shakespeare, Pearson,not even Holloway. Even when it's dross we tend to stand by them. Probably have to go back to Peter Taylor to fin d sort of dissatisfaction we have building now. 

 

Bit of perspective there really...

 

dont forget O’Neil 

Edited 12 January 2019 by Itsthejoeker