Tielemans Signs From Monaco; Silva Goes T’other Way

[SecretPro]

53 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I think people are missing the point Puel was making in not chucking him straight in. It’s not that he couldn’t handle it, it’s the fact he hasn’t earnt his place. What would that say to the players who have been working hard to make the squad (Hamza) if they get booted based on YT’s reputation alone.

 

Its about managing your squad, this isn’t football manager. An unhappy squad will certainly loose you your job, so making the fans wait a week to see a new player is a small price. 

 

Everyone has to earn their place, it doesn’t matter who you are. Im as excited as anyone to see him play but I think it would be incredibly harsh for Hamza to be relegated back to the under 23’s to make way for him. 

 

 

This would make sense for a long term signing. But this is 13 games. Nothing more, but at this rate probably less. He's been bought in to fix some glaring issues, the rest of the team will well know this, given he's only here for a short number of games. If he was to earn the right to play over loyalty to some utter trash currently on the bench/close to the 11 then he would possibly feature for the last 20 mins of our final game of the season. 

[Vardinio'sCat]

8 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

The lack of movement of our forwards has been mentioned a few times on here.  Our players all seem a bit crap at finding space which makes those forward passes twice as difficult

 

I dont know if this lack of movement is tactical or fear on part of the players of taking the initiative

 

I know I liked us a lot more with Barnes up there who seems to be nice and lively movement wise.  Hope he starts every game from here on in

 

Barnes also seems to get his head up really well. That Vardy chance he made was very pleasing up til the finish.

 

That's what I think Tielemans will hopefully give us. Ironically Mendy can pass, but we can all see that his game is 'pass and move' reliable short passing, which is precisely what we don't need next to Wilf in 4231.

 

Unless of course, Mendy is using that short pass to give it to Tielemans. It has to be remembered that Nempalys was bought to complement Drinky, and that might well have worked in this way, as a 2. It certainly would have had more to offer creatively than Mendidi.

 

I love wilf, but I don't see many snappy 1-2's in the Wilf/Youri locker, whereas Mendy would probably could do it. Losing Ndidi's tackling would be a real downside obviously, but it would be interesting to see if Wilf needs a rest, or gets a knock.

[volpeazzurro]

11 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

On the other hand, Silva managed to play 18 minutes for Monaco last weekend - after having played 0 - yes 0 - minutes in professional league football for the better part of five (!) months, and with only three cup matches to show for - the last of which dating back to late November 2018.

So, either our training exercises are better at preparing players for immediate use on a top-flight level, or it's Puel's choice not to consider a player like Tielemans.

 

I know there are many reasons why Tielemans couldn't even make the bench on Sunday, but let's not pretend it wasn't a possibility to include him as part of the matchday squad.

For a player almost eight years younger and certainly fresher than Silva and with allegedly more flair and more talent, plus having already 20 Ligue 1 matches under his belt, a bit baffling.

 

In the end, I would've loved to see him feature for us. I think he could've been that one player to change things around for the better against Manchester United.

So, the debut should now be expected for the Spurs away game then.

8yrs younger,  8yrs less experienced and you still have no knowledge of why he didn't play. 'I would have liked to have seen him play' note the emphasis on the word 'I'.  It was always of course a possibility but, it didn't happen so tough titty. There's more to professional football than keeping a few excited expentant football fans happy. In the bigger picture of the game and the team, I'm sure they don't give a shit and nor should they. The decision would of been made for sound reasoned football reasons,  most of which you and I aren't privy to. We know nothing about him, his ability , his fitness , his current state of mind having just got here, other than what we've gleaned the scraps from in media gossip columns and know it all armchair opinions on here, and, on that basis, you believe you know better than a professional set up who are about to invest a huge bundle of money in him in wages? Nah, I think I'll trust the club on that one. 

[Vardinio'sCat]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

So if he starts on Sunday then, what's different? Been better in a weeks training than Mendy so he's in? He was brought in because we have a huge problem with breaking down teams at home, especially when we go behind. What on earth have Iheanacho and Okazaki done in your code of merit to earn places on the bench? I wouldn't give a flying fcuk if one of them was upset that Tielemans was straight on the bench at the expense of one of them. They shouldn't have been heinous all season then should they?

 

He is only here for a short time with no guarantees, so I would put my contracted players interests in front of that unless I was really, really desperate.

 

You may well argue we are that desperate, but it might be more important to CP that Youri settles in with the squad, without the young lad ruffling too many feathers when he has just walked in the door.

 

You've argued your case really well on this thread, nice one. 

[Ric Flair]

9 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

He is only here for a short time with no guarantees, so I would put my contracted players interests in front of that unless I was really, really desperate.

 

You may well argue we are that desperate, but it might be more important to CP that Youri settles in with the squad, without the young lad ruffling too many feathers when he has just walked in the door.

 

You've argued your case really well on this thread, nice one. 

But our contracted players are the very reason we've had to go and get Tielemans. Every central midfielder to a man is the absolute bins at passing, we are the easiest team in the league to play against on our own turf. I doubt Tielemans will be signing permanently but I wouldn't blink at starting him now every game if he performs to his capabilities as he is night and day above anything else we have on the ball in the midfield. 

[Heymister2015]

Leicester are due to break there transfer record! I’d happily bid £50m on tieliemans if he’s as good as made out and £15-£20m for Che Adams and that’s it. Benkovic will be like a new signing to 

[Vardinio'sCat]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

But our contracted players are the very reason we've had to go and get Tielemans. Every central midfielder to a man is the absolute bins at passing, we are the easiest team in the league to play against on our own turf. I doubt Tielemans will be signing permanently but I wouldn't blink at starting him now every game if he performs to his capabilities as he is night and day above anything else we have on the ball in the midfield. 

 

We see things differently here. I think Mendy is a decent player, and (perhaps controversially) pretty decent at keeping the ball, but doesn't really have range of passing we need. NB Mendy has one of the top pass completioon stats of anyone outside the top 6, apparently.

 

It's the mix of styles of Mendidi that frustrates me, not really the players themselves. It's CP who carries the can for me, but he has the excuse that it is still a work in progress, which I'm ok with for now.

 

 

Edited 7 February 2019 by Vardinio'sCat

[Col city fan]

13 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Surely you've all seen him play? His performance here shows a bit what i was saying in my earlier message. Personally i think he's better as an "8" then as a "10". Not sure where he'd be playing in you squad.

 

Looks to have a bit of everything. Can pass nicely, quick, decent tackler and can shoot. 

Looking forward to seeing him in a City shirt

[MC Prussian]

14 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

8yrs younger,  8yrs less experienced and you still have no knowledge of why he didn't play. 'I would have liked to have seen him play' note the emphasis on the word 'I'.  It was always of course a possibility but, it didn't happen so tough titty. There's more to professional football than keeping a few excited expentant football fans happy. In the bigger picture of the game and the team, I'm sure they don't give a shit and nor should they. The decision would of been made for sound reasoned football reasons,  most of which you and I aren't privy to. We know nothing about him, his ability , his fitness , his current state of mind having just got here, other than what we've gleaned the scraps from in media gossip columns and know it all armchair opinions on here, and, on that basis, you believe you know better than a professional set up who are about to invest a huge bundle of money in him in wages? Nah, I think I'll trust the club on that one. 

Eight years younger, but in terms of experience, you couldn't have picked a worse example for a youngster with such a pedigree:

 

2x Belgian Champion

2x Belgian Supercup winner

130+ league matches in Belgium (ok, we can debate the standard of football, it's certainly not bad)

45+ league matches in Ligue 1 (certainly a bit of a step up compared to Belgium)

19 caps for Belgium

22 Champions League matches

20 Europa League matches

 

These are numbers that rival, in parts even equal or surpass Adrien Silva's.

 

As far as I know, Tielemans' last appearance for Monaco before the transfer deal was against Dijon, where he was subbed after 68 minutes.

He certainly isn't/wasn't injured, so the decision to not play him wasn't born out of necessity, but a personal choice.

 

Like I said, I just find it somewhat baffling that Adrien Silva walks straight into the Monaco side with less match practice, whilst Tielemans can't even make the bench.

 

Edited 7 February 2019 by MC Prussian

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

This is the ultimate in finding stuff to moan about

 

He had just arrived and he will probably start on Sunday!

 

Build

 

A

 

Bridge!

 

 

 

[les-tah]

i like the looks of him from that youtube video v england.. Looks like hes got a hydrololic in his foot which gives him a clean strike every time 

 

 

[Babylon]

51 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

He certainly isn't/wasn't injured, so the decision to not play him wasn't born out of necessity, but a personal choice.

Guess work.

 

51 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Like I said, I just find it somewhat baffling that Adrien Silva walks straight into the Monaco side with less match practice, whilst Tielemans can't even make the bench.

You would do, because you don't have all the facts do you. Perhaps rather than whinging about it, you leave it to the people with the facts at hand to make that decision.

[Babylon]

49 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

This is the ultimate in finding stuff to moan about

Desperate stuff.

[The whole world smiles]

1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

This is the ultimate in finding stuff to moan about

 

He had just arrived and he will probably start on Sunday!

 

Build

 

A

 

Bridge!

 

 

 

Seen Couple of people say he will start sunday. Is this based on anything concrete? Has Puel said something? I'm a bit out the loop this week.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, The whole world smiles said:

Seen Couple of people say he will start sunday. Is this based on anything concrete? Has Puel said something? I'm a bit out the loop this week.

Sean from Enderby has said he will start Sunday

 

So its pretty much cast in stone

[RumbleFox]

Moaning that he didn't throw him straight in is joking right?  Some people grasping at anything to have a wee dig at Puel.  X

[Xen]

21 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

You're right. That stat where he lost the ball something like 30 times in a game for Monaco will have been making forward passes that were unsuccessful. To start with, this is what we need to see, but with it must come some accuracy and success.

I seem to remember at some point in Pearson's second stint an article came out from Rob Mackenzie - our lead scout at the time - who discussed all the various things we look for in players. One of those was how we put far less influence on the 'headline' figures that get presented to the public on Soccer Saturday - things like pass completion, shot accuracy etc. Instead, we were more focussed on things like what proportion of their passes break through the oppositions lines and other 'obscure' stats. I imagine that had we kept that scouting set-up a bit longer Tielemans would have been a perfect fit for what we were after and we might have picked him up before Monaco.

 

That approach to stats is actually what caused us to adopt the kick-off technique of putting it out for a throw-in, as apparently throw-ins are more frequently turned-over in the first 5-minutes of the half.

 

As a data analyst I geek out far too much over stuff like that...

[Xen]

5 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Sean from Enderby has said he will start Sunday

 

So its pretty much cast in stone

6 months ago and that post would have reeked of sarcasm.

 

I'm not quite sure how we've ended up in this timeline where Sean from Enderby is ITK, but it certainly makes things interesting

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

8 minutes ago, Xen said:

6 months ago and that post would have reeked of sarcasm.

 

I'm not quite sure how we've ended up in this timeline where Sean from Enderby is ITK, but it certainly makes things interesting

Its brilliant isnt it?  Totally sincere.  Life has truly imitated art in Sean from Enderby

[Deeg67]

Sean may have gotten the last few lineups right, so who knows whether he's ITK or not.  But seriously - how ITK do you have to be to know Tielmans is starting against Tottenham?  Isn't it utterly obvious?

[psychonaut]

1 minute ago, RumbleFox said:

Moaning that he didn't throw him straight in is joking right?  Some people grasping at anything to have a wee dig at Puel.  X

Same could be said for people grasping at anything to make it about a dig about Puel. 

[TaggertvsWise]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

Eight years younger, but in terms of experience, you couldn't have picked a worse example for a youngster with such a pedigree:

 

2x Belgian Champion

2x Belgian Supercup winner

130+ league matches in Belgium (ok, we can debate the standard of football, it's certainly not bad)

45+ league matches in Ligue 1 (certainly a bit of a step up compared to Belgium)

19 caps for Belgium

22 Champions League matches

20 Europa League matches

 

These are number that rival, in parts even equal or surpass Adrien Silva's.

 

As far as I know, Tielemans' last appearance for Monaco before the transfer deal was against Dijon, where he was subbed after 68 minutes.

He certainly isn't/wasn't injured, so the decision to not play him wasn't born out of necessity, but a personal choice.

 

Like I said, I just find it somewhat baffling that Adrien Silva walks straight into the Monaco side with less match practice, whilst Tielemans can't even make the bench.

 

To be fair all you have done with this point is illustrate the 'experience' he is lacking in the Prem which is the key point as to why he didn't play and demonstrates that even much maturer players can't hack it.

[MPH]

i don’t understand what people are complaining about?

 

Im no Puel fan but..

 

Puel said he would assess his fitness, and he did.and deemed it lacking.

 

 

Are people suggesting Puel lied about something?

 

 

If Silva went straight in and Tielemans didn’t that can mean several things

 

1. our formation/tactics require a higher lvl of fitness

 

2. Monaco are less careful than us concerning injuries

 

3. The french league is played at a slower pace and is less physically demanding and so a lower lvl of fitness is required.

 

4. Silva is a naturally fitter person .

 

 

Can you imagine if he’d of played  and gotten injured? 

 

i can imagine how much blame would have gone Puels way!

 

 

Listen, i’m no Puel fan and would prefer someone else but there is no better way to dilute the validity of your argument than to blindly apportion blame inaccurately.

[MC Prussian]

33 minutes ago, TaggertvsWise said:

To be fair all you have done with this point is illustrate the 'experience' he is lacking in the Prem which is the key point as to why he didn't play and demonstrates that even much maturer players can't hack it.

That's a non-argument.

 

Tielemans doesn't have Premier League experience? Check.

Does he need to gain Premier League experience? Check.

Does he get Premier League experience by playing in the Premier League? Check.

 

At some stage, he's got to play. Otherwise, there's no point in signing players from abroad.

[MC Prussian]

6 minutes ago, MPH said:

i don’t understand what people are complaining about?

 

Im no Puel fan but..

 

Puel said he would assess his fitness, and he did.and deemed it lacking.

 

 

Are people suggesting Puel lied about something?

No, missing my point entirely.

Nobody's arguing that Puel may or may not have "lied".

 

Surely Tielemans was fit enough to have made the bench and an appearance as a sub? Especially given the fact that he was until recently fit as a fiddle when playing for Monaco.

We were crying out for some creativity in midfield, and our options against Manchester United were otherwise limited.