Tielemans Signs From Monaco; Silva Goes T’other Way

[volpeazzurro]

On 04/02/2019 at 21:01, baldeagle said:

This is the sort of over cautious shit Puel does  that really does my head in and the sort of thing that still puts me on the fence with him . I can see all the good things he’s doing like getting rid of dead wood and playing younger players then he pulls a stunt like this  that cancels it all out . I didn’t expect him to start the guy as he  had only just signed and not really trained with us but I expected to see him on the bench and a bit of cameo if the chance arose . Puel really doesn’t help himself sometimes he knows the fans aren’t happy with him and the style of play and he would have known the fans would be really looking forward to get a glimpse of the new signing  so why not meet them half way to appease them a little . This player is supposed to be a worldie and has played in the Champions League on many occasions so the  excuse of not being up to speed with tactics  is a rubbish one . 

I think we have to trust the manager on this as we don't know the reasoning behind it. For all we know the player himself probably wanted a full week in training with his new colleagues. This is more based on impatient fans wanting to unwrap and have a look at their new toy as opposed to any sound football knowledge. As for being a worldie?  He's a kid and was just voted by the French media as being possibly the largest unexplained flopp of the season thus far. For all we know he may have confidence issues. There could be a number of reasons why he didn't play. It would hsvr been a management and staff decision made empirically and if that's the case I wouldn't have wanted him to play him just to appease a few fans.

[oxtonfox]

The guy will need to play all the games whether we or he plays well or not otherwise it’s a waste of time.

As he’s come from the French League he will need 4-6 games to get up to speed a bit like Esteban did a couple of years ago. 

 

Puel will need to break up Mendidi now because Youri should take one of those spots. We can’t drop Barnes, Madders,  or Vardy that leaves one wing spot; take one of Gray, Albrighton or Ghezzal. I’d also like to see Hamza in the team possibly alongside Tielemans. 

[urban fox]

Reading the mercury article on how and where Puel sees him playing is a bit frustrating when he says he sees him as part of a two. Lets hope that does not mean he will have him defending.  I would play him with Hamza (as the destroyer) but give him the freedom to push on and link with the forwards.  This would also give Maddison the opportunity to push up and support Vardy, pick up the second ball on the edge of the box etc. 

[baldeagle]

22 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I think we have to trust the manager on this as we don't know the reasoning behind it. For all we know the player himself probably wanted a full week in training with his new colleagues. This is more based on impatient fans wanting to unwrap and have a look at their new toy as opposed to any sound football knowledge. As for being a worldie?  He's a kid and was just voted by the French media as being possibly the largest unexplained flopp of the season thus far. For all we know he may have confidence issues. There could be a number of reasons why he didn't play. It would hsvr been a management and staff decision made empirically and if that's the case I wouldn't have wanted him to play him just to appease a few fans.

And thats the problem I don’t currently trust the manager to make the right decision. I don’t particularly want him out as I can see all the good he’s done . But he’s also made many mistakes for me not to fully trust his  decisions . And I’m  not inpatient to see him play more frustrated at Puel’s over cautiousness at times .   

[The Doctor]

2 hours ago, baldeagle said:

As I answered above I get the Jardims side of it but as for having Monaco having a poor season and desperate for points you could counter  that with our  midfield had been poor all season and crying out for some type of drive and creativity. Either way this is getting a bit blown up I’m not really angry about it just frustrated more than anything . 

No you couldn't. There's a world apart from "need something to improve us further and take us to the next level" and "need something immediately to save ourselves from relegation within the next 10 games". If we didn't make this signing till the summer it would have made no difference, if Monaco didn't make this signing until the summer they might have been relegated.

[baldeagle]

19 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

No you couldn't. There's a world apart from "need something to improve us further and take us to the next level" and "need something immediately to save ourselves from relegation within the next 10 games". If we didn't make this signing till the summer it would have made no difference, if Monaco didn't make this signing until the summer they might have been relegated.

Not necessarily they signed Fabricas so Silva may not have been so needed  but that all ifs buts and maybes . And of cause it would make a difference to us . So playing your game of ifs and buts. If we hadn’t made the signing now we would still be having to put up with dire plod of Mendy and Ndidi for the rest of the reason .if we hadn’t  got him now he wouldn’t have got a taste of English football . He might not have even come in the summer  . Add to this he may add much needed creatively to our otherwise dull  midfield and help stop us sliding down the table . 

[Grebfromgrebland]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Has there been any quotes from Jardim on their decision to loan Tielemans out?

Yeah probably

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, baldeagle said:

And thats the problem I don’t currently trust the manager to make the right decision. I don’t particularly want him out as I can see all the good he’s done . But he’s also made many mistakes for me not to fully trust his  decisions . And I’m  not inpatient to see him play more frustrated at Puel’s over cautiousness at times .   

So the guy takes part in a 'light' Friday training session having just arrived at a new club, hasn't got to know his new colleagues yet and whatever else, yet you find it unusual that his new manager doesn't feel it right to throw him straight into the fray against a rampant Manchester United side. Personally, I'd have found it bizarre and desperate  if he'd have played him. I'm sure he would have been considered for the bench.  What manager doesn't make mistakes?  Yet much of the time we're not privy to the circumstances and thought process behind them. What I could suggest though is when you look at our opponents at the weekend, they had the likes of Lukaku, Martial and Fred on the subs bench. Together with who they fielded, it does make you wonder why Mourhino couldn't get a tune out of them, then suddenly, as if by magic, the new incumbent goes on a massive unbeaten run with them?  Stinks doesn't it! Now look at our team and no matter how you shuffle them, you've still got three defensive midfielders and one striker, none of them seemingly having the ability of passing forwards at times. The striker by the way is out of form somewhat. When Puel looks at his bench for inspiration? He simply hasn't got the quality of players to break down teams that sit deep. With the exception of  Wolves, we struggle usually to score more than one goal, so a manager is hardly going to play an expansive attacking game from the start knowing thst one goal either way might nick it, particularly when we don't have the players and ammunition to do it.

 

In his first proper transfer window Puel has addressed the right back and number 10 problems and gained two promising young centre halves to try and improve on a collection of players that were a mismatched mess not of his making. Now he's got a particular type of midfielder on loan that we need, if it works out and he fits in, though he's a kid also and we shouldn't expect too much of him too soon either and start booing him if he's not an instant Edin Hazard. If Puel, for all his faults, has had the nous to oversee the players we've bought so far, sent some on loan, played some kids yet decided others aren't quite ready, then I trust him to blood the new boy when he thinks it most beneficial for the team and the player himself whatever his needs when just arrived in a new country and culture. 

[baldeagle]

7 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

So the guy takes part in a 'light' Friday training session having just arrived at a new club, hasn't got to know his new colleagues yet and whatever else, yet you find it unusual that his new manager doesn't feel it right to throw him straight into the fray against a rampant Manchester United side. Personally, I'd have found it bizarre and desperate  if he'd have played him. I'm sure he would have been considered for the bench.  What manager doesn't make mistakes?  Yet much of the time we're not privy to the circumstances and thought process behind them. What I could suggest though is when you look at our opponents at the weekend, they had the likes of Lukaku, Martial and Fred on the subs bench. Together with who they fielded, it does make you wonder why Mourhino couldn't get a tune out of them, then suddenly, as if by magic, the new incumbent goes on a massive unbeaten run with them?  Stinks doesn't it! Now look at our team and no matter how you shuffle them, you've still got three defensive midfielders and one striker, none of them seemingly having the ability of passing forwards at times. The striker by the way is out of form somewhat. When Puel looks at his bench for inspiration? He simply hasn't got the quality of players to break down teams that sit deep. With the exception of  Wolves, we struggle usually to score more than one goal, so a manager is hardly going to play an expansive attacking game from the start knowing thst one goal either way might nick it, particularly when we don't have the players and ammunition to do it.

 

In his first proper transfer window Puel has addressed the right back and number 10 problems and gained two promising young centre halves to try and improve on a collection of players that were a mismatched mess not of his making. Now he's got a particular type of midfielder on loan that we need, if it works out and he fits in, though he's a kid also and we shouldn't expect too much of him too soon either and start booing him if he's not an instant Edin Hazard. If Puel, for all his faults, has had the nous to oversee the players we've bought so far, sent some on loan, played some kids yet decided others aren't quite ready, then I trust him to blood the new boy when he thinks it most beneficial for the team and the player himself whatever his needs when just arrived in a new country and culture. 

I will re-iterate what I said,  I didn’t expect him to start and nor should he had so no I didnt expect him thrown straight in against a rampant United .  Surely it’s not unreasonable to expect a new midfield signing who is supposed to be more dynamic with vast experience for a youngster to be at least on the bench when he’s been here for 3 days, we have got rid of 3 other midfielders and the only other midfield option is a young defensive mid or scplayer that’s never fit .

Edited 6 February 2019 by baldeagle

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, urban fox said:

Reading the mercury article on how and where Puel sees him playing is a bit frustrating when he says he sees him as part of a two. Lets hope that does not mean he will have him defending.  I would play him with Hamza (as the destroyer) but give him the freedom to push on and link with the forwards.  This would also give Maddison the opportunity to push up and support Vardy, pick up the second ball on the edge of the box etc. 

I thought what he said was brilliant. He said Tielemans gave us options of playing in a 2 or a 3? In which case if he's in a 3 he will be the more advanced of the 3, unless Maddison is in the 3 with him and Wilf or Choudhury but that would be surprising.

 

Our biggest issue has been moving the ball incisively and quickly from midfield and with Tielemans replacing Mendy then I'd expect this to improve. He will get balls in to Maddison, our wingers or through to Vardy in the channels when the opportunity presents itself.

 

His biggest asset is his long range shooting and when you think how many wild slashes Ndidi has had this season, it shows Tielemans will still get opportunities to shoot in this system. Plus, when we have a lot of the ball and we work it forwards, he'll have times when he himself can try and get in to the box, he is quite good at anticipating where to be in attacks. 

 

I am hoping a fluent passer of the ball will revitalise Maddison's game, he is slowly losing that swagger and confidence and needs a match winning game to get back to his best. Tielemans will help him get the ball more in dangerous areas.

 

This may all sound so simple and easy and I'm sure it wont be, but there will be an improvement in our passing and movement with this geezer.

 

Pogba has had the shackles taken off at Utd and become more of a number 10 and is excelling, but we have Maddison for that and we dont have the luxury of another central midfielder to sit deep and supply quality and quick passes to release others, that's why Tielemans cant be used there really. I'm glad though as there was a brief worry Maddison would be dropped which might still happen with Barnes in a 4-3-3 but I've still every faith Maddison will be top drawer for us.

 

 

[The Doctor]

9 hours ago, baldeagle said:

Not necessarily they signed Fabricas so Silva may not have been so needed  but that all ifs buts and maybes . And of cause it would make a difference to us . So playing your game of ifs and buts. If we hadn’t made the signing now we would still be having to put up with dire plod of Mendy and Ndidi for the rest of the reason .if we hadn’t  got him now he wouldn’t have got a taste of English football . He might not have even come in the summer  . Add to this he may add much needed creatively to our otherwise dull  midfield and help stop us sliding down the table . 

No, it wouldn't make any material difference to us for this season. With him, we'll finish midtable. Without him, we'd finish midtable. Monaco's signings will, hopefully for them, make a material difference this season - the difference between staying up and going down. They don't have time to give a player a week to settle in and get ready, they've just got to go for it. Just as they're not in a position to give someone like Barnes a chance to develop, while we are and can.

Edited 6 February 2019 by The Doctor

[Deeg67]

10 hours ago, urban fox said:

Reading the mercury article on how and where Puel sees him playing is a bit frustrating when he says he sees him as part of a two. Lets hope that does not mean he will have him defending.  I would play him with Hamza (as the destroyer) but give him the freedom to push on and link with the forwards.  This would also give Maddison the opportunity to push up and support Vardy, pick up the second ball on the edge of the box etc. 

The whole point of Tielmans is he’s a box to box midfielder. Why would you only want to use half of what he can do?

 

Tielmans in a 2 vs. defending clubs and as the most forward of a 3 in a 4-3-3 vs. big 6 clubs. That makes perfect sense to me.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, baldeagle said:

I will re-iterate what I said,  I didn’t expect him to start and nor should he had so no I didnt expect him thrown straight in against a rampant United .  Surely it’s not unreasonable to expect a new midfield signing who is supposed to be more dynamic with vast experience for a youngster to be at least on the bench when he’s been here for 3 days, we have got rid of 3 other midfielders and the only other midfield option is a young defensive mid or scplayer that’s never fit .

Yes, a lot of people do find it totally unreasonable to expect it, for all the reasons already outlined. Especially when people aren't privy to any of the facts.

 

Do I know how much time he spent training? No.

Do I know what he missed in the training sessions he didn't take part in? No

Do I know how much "rest" he's had? No

Do I know whether he's in the right frame of mind? No

Do I know if he's stuck in a hotel with aircon going all night meaning he can't sleep, or whether he had a perfect night kip? No

Do I know if he came over with a rucksack with a toothbrush and a pair of pants and hasn't got all his gear? No.

 

Does the manager know all those things and more, Yes.

Am I personally in any position to question that decision, Not really.

 

That's not saying you can't have an opinion on it. IF the lad was fully rested, in a good frame of mind and went through enough opposition stuff during training that he could take part, then I'd have liked him to be on the bench. My issue is, that people don't stop there, they use it as a reason to slag a manager off. Which goes from just having an opinion on something to being pretty unreasonable themselves.

 

Anyway, I'd best duck out before I'm banned for discussing things.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I thought what he said was brilliant. He said Tielemans gave us options of playing in a 2 or a 3? In which case if he's in a 3 he will be the more advanced of the 3, unless Maddison is in the 3 with him and Wilf or Choudhury but that would be surprising.

 

Our biggest issue has been moving the ball incisively and quickly from midfield and with Tielemans replacing Mendy then I'd expect this to improve. He will get balls in to Maddison, our wingers or through to Vardy in the channels when the opportunity presents itself.

 

His biggest asset is his long range shooting and when you think how many wild slashes Ndidi has had this season, it shows Tielemans will still get opportunities to shoot in this system. Plus, when we have a lot of the ball and we work it forwards, he'll have times when he himself can try and get in to the box, he is quite good at anticipating where to be in attacks. 

 

I am hoping a fluent passer of the ball will revitalise Maddison's game, he is slowly losing that swagger and confidence and needs a match winning game to get back to his best. Tielemans will help him get the ball more in dangerous areas.

 

This may all sound so simple and easy and I'm sure it wont be, but there will be an improvement in our passing and movement with this geezer.

 

Pogba has had the shackles taken off at Utd and become more of a number 10 and is excelling, but we have Maddison for that and we dont have the luxury of another central midfielder to sit deep and supply quality and quick passes to release others, that's why Tielemans cant be used there really. I'm glad though as there was a brief worry Maddison would be dropped which might still happen with Barnes in a 4-3-3 but I've still every faith Maddison will be top drawer for us.

 

 

Ric, you are a pure closet Puel-apologist just waiting to bust out  

 

You just need one first goal at home orchestrated from our new midfielder and a wee bit of positive direct play from the midfield and you will be right here with us.  A couple of promising performances from Tielemans and we beat Palace well at home and your outlook will brighten right up

 

You heard it here first

[Ric Flair]

43 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Ric, you are a pure closet Puel-apologist just waiting to bust out  

 

You just need one first goal at home orchestrated from our new midfielder and a wee bit of positive direct play from the midfield and you will be right here with us.  A couple of promising performances from Tielemans and we beat Palace well at home and your outlook will brighten right up

 

You heard it here first

Hahahaaa

[Dames]

 

Puel when he has to break up Mendy and Ndidi to accommodate Tielemans.

[MC Prussian]

10 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

So the guy takes part in a 'light' Friday training session having just arrived at a new club, hasn't got to know his new colleagues yet and whatever else, yet you find it unusual that his new manager doesn't feel it right to throw him straight into the fray against a rampant Manchester United side. Personally, I'd have found it bizarre and desperate  if he'd have played him. I'm sure he would have been considered for the bench.  What manager doesn't make mistakes?  Yet much of the time we're not privy to the circumstances and thought process behind them.

On the other hand, Silva managed to play 18 minutes for Monaco last weekend - after having played 0 - yes 0 - minutes in professional league football for the better part of five (!) months, and with only three cup matches to show for - the last of which dating back to late November 2018.

So, either our training exercises are better at preparing players for immediate use on a top-flight level, or it's Puel's choice not to consider a player like Tielemans.

 

I know there are many reasons why Tielemans couldn't even make the bench on Sunday, but let's not pretend it wasn't a possibility to include him as part of the matchday squad.

For a player almost eight years younger and certainly fresher than Silva and with allegedly more flair and more talent, plus having already 20 Ligue 1 matches under his belt, a bit baffling.

 

In the end, I would've loved to see him feature for us. I think he could've been that one player to change things around for the better against Manchester United.

So, the debut should now be expected for the Spurs away game then.

Edited 6 February 2019 by MC Prussian

[NewquayFox]

Puel will drop Maddison to accommodate Tielemans in our midfield saying they are too similar, leaving Ndidi & Mendy to blunder on until the end of the season...

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, NewquayFox said:

Puel will drop Maddison to accommodate Tielemans in our midfield saying they are too similar, leaving Ndidi & Mendy to blunder on until the end of the season...

You are Sean from Enderby and I claim my £5.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, NewquayFox said:

Puel will drop Maddison to accommodate Tielemans in our midfield saying they are too similar, leaving Ndidi & Mendy to blunder on until the end of the season...

He's already said he cant play 10, so he's either going to go 4-3-3 which has nothing to do with Tielemans replacing Maddison as it'll be Barnes or Maddison on the left of a 3 and the 3 CM's will be Tielemans and 2 of Ndidi, Mendy or Choudhury.

[Mark]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He's already said he cant play 10

Remember last season when asked about it he said Silva can't play 10 and then played him there the next game.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Mark said:

Remember last season when asked about it he said Silva can't play 10 and then played him there the next game.

Hahahaa oh god, don't do this to me. I'm in that period between games where I switch from hating Puel to thinking he's doing bits here and should stay. I wish we never play, I love international breaks and the close season. Hahahaa

[holyfox]

4 hours ago, baldeagle said:

I will re-iterate what I said,  I didn’t expect him to start and nor should he had so no I didnt expect him thrown straight in against a rampant United .  Surely it’s not unreasonable to expect a new midfield signing who is supposed to be more dynamic with vast experience for a youngster to be at least on the bench when he’s been here for 3 days, we have got rid of 3 other midfielders and the only other midfield option is a young defensive mid or scplayer that’s never fit .

However exciting Tielemans is, I can't see how he would have been able to get up to speed with how we set up and what kinds of runs different players make. We forget that at the heart of our "band of brothers' was that they intuitively knew what each other would do as they had been together in a pretty stable team for a long time, especially DD and the attacking players. This might not be as important for a DM or defender, but with someone expected to ping attacking long balls, he would need a few sessions at least to get a feel for his teammates and their runs. He has openly and honestly admitted that he didn't know too much about the club or the team when he signed. I suggest if we are patient and supportive, he will get up to speed soon enough, but don't expect a superstar from the first game. Even Pogba looked doggo for a long while with some flashes of brilliance in his first season back. 

Finally, I think Bournemouth are a good example of how effective a team of 'good but not great' players can perform if they are around long enough as a team.

Can you imagine, how deflating it would have been for the poor lad if he'd come on a sprayed a few passes that didn't come off and then took on his shoulders the negativity from the stands?

Puel is the first manager who has identified and addressed the shortcomings in our team, without the budget that we blew the previous two seasons and has had to shift the dead weight at the same time. Even if he gets replaced by someone and we play better, I for one will still remember the groundwork that he has done at our club, a bit like Pearson did before him. Be careful what you wish for guys..

[Ric Flair]

Just now, holyfox said:

However exciting Tielemans is, I can't see how he would have been able to get up to speed with how we set up and what kinds of runs different players make. We forget that at the heart of our "band of brothers' was that they intuitively knew what each other would do as they had been together in a pretty stable team for a long time, especially DD and the attacking players. This might not be as important for a DM or defender, but with someone expected to ping attacking long balls, he would need a few sessions at least to get a feel for his teammates and their runs. He has openly and honestly admitted that he didn't know too much about the club or the team when he signed. I suggest if we are patient and supportive, he will get up to speed soon enough, but don't expect a superstar from the first game. Even Pogba looked doggo for a long while with some flashes of brilliance in his first season back. 

Finally, I think Bournemouth are a good example of how effective a team of 'good but not great' players can perform if they are around long enough as a team.

Can you imagine, how deflating it would have been for the poor lad if he'd come on a sprayed a few passes that didn't come off and then took on his shoulders the negativity from the stands?

Puel is the first manager who has identified and addressed the shortcomings in our team, without the budget that we blew the previous two seasons and has had to shift the dead weight at the same time. Even if he gets replaced by someone and we play better, I for one will still remember the groundwork that he has done at our club, a bit like Pearson did before him. Be careful what you wish for guys..

The lad was thrown in to first team football just days after his 16th birthday at Belgium's biggest and most expectant club. He's then gone to a ridiculously wealthy club with a fan base that is bizarre to say the least, I don't think he'd have been too fazed with coming on in the 2nd half on Sunday. Mendy was deliberately trying to get sent off and yet we were still well in the game, it would have been ideal for him. Anyway, it's likely he'll start on Sunday which is refreshing news.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The lad was thrown in to first team football just days after his 16th birthday at Belgium's biggest and most expectant club. He's then gone to a ridiculously wealthy club with a fan base that is bizarre to say the least, I don't think he'd have been too fazed with coming on in the 2nd half on Sunday. Mendy was deliberately trying to get sent off and yet we were still well in the game, it would have been ideal for him. Anyway, it's likely he'll start on Sunday which is refreshing news.

Bizarre fanbase, he'd have been right at home  

 

There is always the possibility that home games are so likely to be a drag that a new signing is best off starting away from home

 

I really dont see the issue here.  Its 20 minutes of pitch time being discussed!

 

Sean from Enderby says he's starting at the weekend anyway