Home Form. Not great reading.

[MC Prussian]

4 minutes ago, lcfc278 said:

I think you have to look at the bigger picture, yes our home form is dire at the minute as yes, there's a lot of unrest. I think we've got a bright future though, especially for next season, so many young players playing and coming through.

 

Starting games slowly has definitely been our undoing. We've consistently played really well after going behind and have been very unlucky.

 

The encouraging thing is we easily better than at least 10/11 teams in the league, squad-wise were currently on a par with teams around us like Bournemouth, Watford, Everton and Wolves and I think over the next 5 years we'll have a lot more potential to grow and surpass these teams and the club will ultimately be a lot more attractive to potential signings with the training ground and stadium developments.

 

Keep the faith! 

For how much longer though?

With the form we're on, we're looking at dropping even further down the table in subsequent weeks.

 

It'd take a miracle for us to halt that downward spiral now.

[Ric Flair]

23 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Which is why we needed a tall target man in january, anyone, just someone to aim at, even peter crouch could have done a job for us, but what did we get, another friggin midfielder.

I'd counter that it still wouldn't result in many goals as you're lobbing in a ball to one player against a whole defence. Watch most headed goals from crosses and it's 9/10 from play being stretched and the attacker has found space rather than them over powering a set defence. I'm not saying it wouldn't be more useful than doing it all game to Vardy, but it isn't the long term answer.

[lcfc278]

1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

For how much longer though?

With the form we're on, we're looking at dropping even further down the table in subsequent weeks.

 

It'd take a miracle for us to halt that downward spiral now.

I think I saw enough in the game yesterday (admittedly after going 1-0 down) to show that we have got a real team in there that will come good soon. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a result at Tottenham next weekend and then weve got a good run of 5 games against Palace, Brighton, Fulham, Burnley and Watford. Let's see where we after after those games.

 

I just feel there's so much negativity around at the moment, a lot of which is unfounded.

[Babylon]

18 minutes ago, FoxFossil said:

Agree with much of this, so guess the question is, what is long term? 3 years? 5 years? Provided we see genuine progress on the pitch in say 2 years, then I think most long term fans would accept this transition period for what it is. 

I think their long term thinking is actually more in decades, because growing the club in size naturally is quite a slow progress. There are probably stages within it, short term goals, medium term and the long term. Short term IMO would be surviving and aiming for top half finishes (18-19 / 19-20), whilst starting the focus on young talent. Once the ground increase and training facilities are completed, presuming we pay them off quickly then I think the medium term goals would then be aiming for nailing improved league position (20-21, 21-22 perhaps even 22-23), presuming we have some money to invest, I'd imagine they'd be looking to concrete in the 7th to 8th spot with an eye on going higher, with an improved squad capable of challenging across several competitions. Long term I'd imagine we're looking to keep selling out an increased ground capacity and would look again to expand, and you'd go around in that sort of cycle until growth plateaus.

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I think their long term thinking is actually more in decades, because growing the club in size naturally is quite a slow progress. There are probably stages within it, short term goals, medium term and the long term. Short term IMO would be surviving and aiming for top half finishes (18-19 / 19-20), whilst starting the focus on young talent. Once the ground increase and training facilities are completed, presuming we pay them off quickly then I think the medium term goals would then be aiming for nailing improved league position (20-21, 21-22 perhaps even 22-23), presuming we have some money to invest, I'd imagine they'd be looking to concrete in the 7th to 8th spot with an eye on going higher, with an improved squad capable of challenging across several competitions. Long term I'd imagine we're looking to keep selling out an increased ground capacity and would look again to expand, and you'd go around in that sort of cycle until growth plateaus.

It's quite alien to read that in football, i'm trying to think of a club who has successfully managed to do it from a similar stature to ours. Can't actually think of one, but I have no doubt our owners if any can help us achieve such sustained growth.

[KrefelderFox666]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I think their long term thinking is actually more in decades, because growing the club in size naturally is quite a slow progress. There are probably stages within it, short term goals, medium term and the long term. Short term IMO would be surviving and aiming for top half finishes (18-19 / 19-20), whilst starting the focus on young talent. Once the ground increase and training facilities are completed, presuming we pay them off quickly then I think the medium term goals would then be aiming for nailing improved league position (20-21, 21-22 perhaps even 22-23), presuming we have some money to invest, I'd imagine they'd be looking to concrete in the 7th to 8th spot with an eye on going higher, with an improved squad capable of challenging across several competitions. Long term I'd imagine we're looking to keep selling out an increased ground capacity and would look again to expand, and you'd go around in that sort of cycle until growth plateaus.

The problem is, football fans in general are impatient and want immediate success. No one likes sitting through a few seasons of mediocrity to build something. This is what we are experiencing right now, lots of fans just want European football and cup triumphs, not in 5 years but this year. Unfortunately, outside of the Top 6 there are many good clubs in the PL who want the same.

 

I am fully behind a long term project so that we can have future success and be "established" in the PL mid table and above.

 

Spurs have done exceptionally well over the last 5-10 years, however, they are now at that point where the fans really want to see trophies. Unfortunately for them, all their money has been blown on a new ground and that will cost them in recruitment. The manager's hands are tied.

[KrefelderFox666]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It's quite alien to read that in football, i'm trying to think of a club who has successfully managed to do it from a similar stature to ours. Can't actually think of one, but I have no doubt our owners if any can help us achieve such sustained growth.

Every club is different so a comparison is hard. Man City did it but with major financial backing. West Ham after their most recent promotion have built a mid table team but again they have a different background (and are a London team which always feels like an advantage to attract players). Everton have always had ambition but never really built up properly, hence why they are probably struggling to establish themselves as the best thing outside the Top 6.

 

Let's not forget that other clubs are not sleeping while we develop. Watford, Bournemouth, Wolves et al are doing really well to build a good team with what resources they have available.

 

I think we are heading in the right direction but it may well take some time before the squad is assembled and everyone is peaking performance wise. The biggest challenges for us going forward is to continually provide talent to the first team. No doubt when players start performing regularly, Top 6 clubs will come in and snatch players away. The training ground is going to be a big thing for us but we probably won't see direct results from it for another 10 years or so.

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, chapero82 said:

So now it’s the fans fault? Puel fans have taken it to another level  

Define a Puel fan? I genuinely couldn't care if he's here or not, I support the club (and actually support - that good times and the bad chant could probably see the players do us for false advertising at the moment). I'm not braying for his sacking because things aren't a disaster. It's frustrating midtable stuff, but that's the reality of our ceiling for the next few years - you need the infrastructure and the cash behind you to seriously and consistently challenge the top six. I'm prepared to be patient and accept that, in the meantime, we'll pull out results like Man City then immediately follow them up with defeats to sides we should be beating. That's what midtable sides do, hell that's what Spurs were doing under Ramos, Villas Boas and co before Potchettino turned up. If a manager of Potchettinos potential was available to us, sure, I'd bin Puel off. Since there's not, why destabilise the team now when he'll mostly likely be gone in the summer? 

 

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

We're 7th in the away form table, with Watford catching up. And Arsenal, West Ham and Crystal Palace not far off. Arsenal and West Ham have also had one game less on the road so far.

https://www.premierleague.com/tables?co=1&se=210&ha=A

 

At present and on the basis of our current form in the past five matches, we're looking at a finish in the region between 13th and 15th.

I posted the 8 game form table earlier, that I'd been talking about prior to your response. We're 5th in that.

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It's quite alien to read that in football, i'm trying to think of a club who has successfully managed to do it from a similar stature to ours. Can't actually think of one, but I have no doubt our owners if any can help us achieve such sustained growth.

I'm not sure many are willing to reinvest or spend the money to make it happen. Many have done it from a lower level, much like ourselves and say saints have done when moving from crappy old grounds. We've goth added huge numbers to our gates naturally. Can't think of many that have pushed on from our size off hand.

 

It's not easy and there are no guarantees, there is a fine balancing act between investing on the pitch and investing off it.

[MonkeyTennis?]

Its worth watching Sunderland Til I Die on Netflix to see where booing your own team takes you... They had other problems, of course, but once the players confidence is shot, you can go right down the sh1tter, regardless of the manager. 

[That_Dude]

3 hours ago, Rusko187 said:

Or could poor performances be behind the toxic home atmosphere? 

 

How long has the atmosphere been toxic? Can't be used as mitigation as this has only been happening for past few games.. Surely the fans do have a right to be frustrated? (Not condoning booing, personally don't do it)

It's a mix of both, not that I'd ever condone nor understand the booing. Our home form is dreadful and the problems are real. However the problem is much older than Puel, even if he still didn't manage to solve the problem. The arrival of Tielemans, a more creative midfielder, will hopefully bring an improvement. The lack of a target man is also a concern.

 

However as things stand if I was one of our players, I'd wish that all our matches were away.

[weller54]

3 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said:

It doesn't make for good reading, even little miss positive me thinks that. We were always such a good team at home, i can't place my finger on what has gone so wrong. Hopefully the 1st half of the season is a blip and we turn it around in the latter part of the season. 

 

Something does need to change though, thats for sure. 

Yep.. 

The Manager! 

[Ric Flair]

36 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

Its worth watching Sunderland Til I Die on Netflix to see where booing your own team takes you... They had other problems, of course, but once the players confidence is shot, you can go right down the sh1tter, regardless of the manager. 

It's also worth seeing how much a win or two can do for the fans and what can be built from there, see our great escape under Pearson. The atmosphere had been quite toxic for a long while there and then somehow they got their noses in front in a game and saw it through and we all got behind them. We have taken the lead twice all season at home, what comes first the negative atmosphere or the shit football? The fans tend to be in good voice from the off but it slowly starts to turn.

[Dames]

17 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It's also worth seeing how much a win or two can do for the fans and what can be built from there, see our great escape under Pearson. The atmosphere had been quite toxic for a long while there and then somehow they got their noses in front in a game and saw it through and we all got behind them. We have taken the lead twice all season at home, what comes first the negative atmosphere or the shit football? The fans tend to be in good voice from the off but it slowly starts to turn.

I said this in another thread. Creating an atmosphere is 50/50 between the fans and players, if the players start slow and concede early a few times the fans will back them. To be starting slowly and losing a goal as consistently as they have been doing you're going to have fans who are frustrated and tired of picking up the slack in creating an atmosphere.

 

The atmosphere currently reflects the football on show, conservative.

 

 

[Dan]

5 hours ago, AKCJ said:

We've scored the first goal twice at home all season.

 

One was a penalty and the other was a freak own goal after Wolves had hit our post twice.

The single biggest issue with us under Puel. That is a fundamental problem. It doesn't happen this often by fluke.

 

You cannot achieve anything with such an abysmal record. It was barely any better last season either at home.

 

I'm not seeing this supposed development under Puel.

[KingsX]

5 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said:

It doesn't make for good reading, even little miss positive me thinks that. Hopefully the 1st half of the season is a blip and we turn it around in the latter part of the season.

 

We're two-thirds through, Suzie, not halfway. 

 

But stay positive.     #blondoptimism

[Suzie the Fox]

29 minutes ago, KingsX said:

 

We're two-thirds through, Suzie, not halfway. 

 

But stay positive.     #blondoptimism

#blondoptimism i'd be screwed without it  

[SuperMike]

5 hours ago, lcfceaves said:

I am not criticising fans for venting their opinion is the right way to go about any of this, nor is it actually going to change anything.

The atmosphere for me is very flat, and that is generated by the performance... the fans need something to cheer about. Nearly every week we concede in the first 15 minutes and the football is a bit dull. The players for a while now, look like they aren't buying into him by the half hearted effort I'm seeing (from most, not all). Our home form this season (or since Puel has taken charge) has been poor, plus are seeing less and less goals (for us anyway!). So again, there's only so many times you can ask people to cheer and create an atmosphere when what is happening on the pitch in front us is anything but inspiring. 

 

With regards to 'booing', I do disagree with booing players coming on, its stupid, and adds creates nothing to an already flat atmosphere.

However... I felt the booing yesterday when Maddison was subbed was fans showing anger towards Puel, not at Ghezzal. Again down to opinions i guess, but the booing started as Maddison was coming off, the boo's didn't just wait until Ghezzal came on. It is hard to interpret, only the people booing knew why they were booing.  

 

Football creates a diverse set of opinions and everyone is entitled to their own (as long as it doesn't become offensive etc.) and so don't expect with a few posts on here all of a sudden everyone is going to be all smiles and hugging each other. The bottom line is, something has to happen on the pitch, to affect the atmosphere, and in my opinion, right now, that 'something', that 'spark' is missing. 

Nothing will change now until Puel has gone, it has gone too far I think for him to turn it around. It is all 'gut feelings', but I don't think the majority of the squad are with him anymore either, looks like they are losing/lost confidence in him or even themselves, it show's most weeks. 

 

Let's see if he can turn it around from now until the end of the season, but if nothing changes, we will be on the manager merry-go-round again come May/June.

Lengthy post - but sums the situation up pretty much 100%

[sdb]

I missed the Wolves and Man City games due to holidays. I’ve seen us win twice this season and I’ve done a few away games too ?

[Ric Flair]

5 hours ago, lcfceaves said:

I am not criticising fans for venting their opinion is the right way to go about any of this, nor is it actually going to change anything.

The atmosphere for me is very flat, and that is generated by the performance... the fans need something to cheer about. Nearly every week we concede in the first 15 minutes and the football is a bit dull. The players for a while now, look like they aren't buying into him by the half hearted effort I'm seeing (from most, not all). Our home form this season (or since Puel has taken charge) has been poor, plus are seeing less and less goals (for us anyway!). So again, there's only so many times you can ask people to cheer and create an atmosphere when what is happening on the pitch in front us is anything but inspiring. 

 

With regards to 'booing', I do disagree with booing players coming on, its stupid, and adds creates nothing to an already flat atmosphere.

However... I felt the booing yesterday when Maddison was subbed was fans showing anger towards Puel, not at Ghezzal. Again down to opinions i guess, but the booing started as Maddison was coming off, the boo's didn't just wait until Ghezzal came on. It is hard to interpret, only the people booing knew why they were booing.  

 

Football creates a diverse set of opinions and everyone is entitled to their own (as long as it doesn't become offensive etc.) and so don't expect with a few posts on here all of a sudden everyone is going to be all smiles and hugging each other. The bottom line is, something has to happen on the pitch, to affect the atmosphere, and in my opinion, right now, that 'something', that 'spark' is missing. 

Nothing will change now until Puel has gone, it has gone too far I think for him to turn it around. It is all 'gut feelings', but I don't think the majority of the squad are with him anymore either, looks like they are losing/lost confidence in him or even themselves, it show's most weeks. 

 

Let's see if he can turn it around from now until the end of the season, but if nothing changes, we will be on the manager merry-go-round again come May/June.

How has this not been well liked? Absolutely spot on!

[Legend_in_blue]

Another worrying statistic is Puel's inability to change a losing scenario into a winning one in any game he's managed at this level.

 

It's never happened.

 

That's shocking.  He calls for his intensity and quality and yet the team comes out and does the exact opposite every game.  Just what is the bloke saying to the players before games?  

[CosbehFox]

Just now, Legend_in_blue said:

Another worrying statistic is Puel's inability to change a losing scenario into a winning one in any game he's managed at this level.

 

It's never happened.

 

I swear we were 1-0 down against Manchester City, Southampton, Huddersfield this season and won

[Legend_in_blue]

5 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I swear we were 1-0 down against Manchester City, Southampton, Huddersfield this season and won

 

I've just checked the results.  You are correct.  The BBC talks **** once again on matchday stats.  Who employs these people? 

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

6 hours ago, lcfceaves said:

I am not criticising fans for venting their opinion is the right way to go about any of this, nor is it actually going to change anything.

The atmosphere for me is very flat, and that is generated by the performance... the fans need something to cheer about. Nearly every week we concede in the first 15 minutes and the football is a bit dull. The players for a while now, look like they aren't buying into him by the half hearted effort I'm seeing (from most, not all). Our home form this season (or since Puel has taken charge) has been poor, plus are seeing less and less goals (for us anyway!). So again, there's only so many times you can ask people to cheer and create an atmosphere when what is happening on the pitch in front us is anything but inspiring. 

 

With regards to 'booing', I do disagree with booing players coming on, its stupid, and adds creates nothing to an already flat atmosphere.

However... I felt the booing yesterday when Maddison was subbed was fans showing anger towards Puel, not at Ghezzal. Again down to opinions i guess, but the booing started as Maddison was coming off, the boo's didn't just wait until Ghezzal came on. It is hard to interpret, only the people booing knew why they were booing.  

 

Football creates a diverse set of opinions and everyone is entitled to their own (as long as it doesn't become offensive etc.) and so don't expect with a few posts on here all of a sudden everyone is going to be all smiles and hugging each other. The bottom line is, something has to happen on the pitch, to affect the atmosphere, and in my opinion, right now, that 'something', that 'spark' is missing. 

Nothing will change now until Puel has gone, it has gone too far I think for him to turn it around. It is all 'gut feelings', but I don't think the majority of the squad are with him anymore either, looks like they are losing/lost confidence in him or even themselves, it show's most weeks. 

 

Let's see if he can turn it around from now until the end of the season, but if nothing changes, we will be on the manager merry-go-round again come May/June.

No problem with post in general but the bit in bold is questionable. It’s not the first time it has happened as Ghezzal has come on, it may be ithat the booing is directed elsewhere, but that subtle distinction is nigh on impossible to divine for the poor bugger coming on.

[ScouseFox]

33 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Another worrying statistic is Puel's inability to change a losing scenario into a winning one in any game he's managed at this level.

 

It's never happened.

 

That's shocking.  He calls for his intensity and quality and yet the team comes out and does the exact opposite every game.  Just what is the bloke saying to the players before games?  

I mean he's an absolute mess of a manager and we are complete garbage but i'm pretty sure we have more points from losing positions than anyone else in the league? 

 

good job as well tbf seen as we find ourselves in losing positions in literally every game we play. we've conceded first in 11 of our last 13 games, quite often early doors as well. quite remarkable, that.