Is there a genuine opportunity to build this team?

[z-layrex]

You cant build anything, because as soon as you start to, the biggest clubs will take your best players.

[gw_leics772]

22 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

We're continually being told by some quarters to be patient. The marjority of supporters of this Club have been for years. We were extremely patient for many a long season before we arrived back in the EPL and experience the immense success that has brought. Now, again, we have to be patient withe the youngsters. Great, but what if some of these youngsters don't attain their pereceived potential many years down the line? The Club cannot tread water and wait forever.

Is that actually a valid disagreement or just a pessimistic list of what ifs?

 

Serious question because at it stands the answer to your what if is simply, it wont be as good as it could have been. Which roughly translates to "tough titties/lifes a bitch/suck it up buttercup" etc.etc.

 

Although digging deeper, its not even really a what if, because "some of these youngsters Won't attain their perceived potential many years down the line" and the answer is, that is their job, to replace, continually recruit, have choices etc.

[Dames]

8 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

You cant build anything, because as soon as you start to, the biggest clubs will take your best players.

This is true but you have to prepare for that and have ready made replacements or at least realistic targets in mind to replace those best players. I can see what you're saying though and it will be frustrating if we just become a conveyer belt of talent that goes on to join big clubs and win multiple trophies and we'll constantly be subject to the type of XI's you see about players we've let go and 'what a team we would have if we kept x and x' etc. There has to be a fine balance and the club/manager has to show enough ambition so that we don't just become the top 6's academy.

[Xen]

26 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

My point is that consistency in managers I totally agree is important, but at the same time some managers don't necessarily work out with some clubs. In my opinion I feel the style of football that Puel is trying to implement is too defensive (as evidenced with persistently playing 2 defensive midfielders and on some occasions 3). Whilst I understand the likes of Pochettino is on for bigger things and no chance of coming to Leicester, he has a policy for promoting youth with an exciting attacking style of football and when given time can reap positive results.

For that my point is that with the right manager with the right style I am more than happy to allow time even if results don't always come about, Puel may be good at bringing through youth but there are other managers out in this world who are capable and can do it better. hopefully that explains my position on this view better.

I'd say wait and see with that, at least. I genuinely think Puel's desired style is much more attacking than he's given credit for - the fact that we've not had the personnel to achieve that is partially why it appears so defensive. You only need to watch Puel on a matchday and you can see him remonstrating when we pass the ball back to Schmeichel needlessly or potter around at a snails pace in midfield. He wants fast-flowing attacking football combined with a possession game, and he's just as frustrated as the fans are when we revert to type and play safe.

 

We had Silva - who wasn't up to scratch in Puel's eyes - as our only truly creative CM, so we were almost forced to play more defensive in the middle. At some point Puel had to make the decision of adjusting our style to suit the players we had OR carrying on with what he wanted to do so the players get used to it, and address the personnel issue in January. Tielemans could be the missing piece to make things click.

 

I'm sure he would have liked to get everything sorted in the summer, but there's only so much you can change at once.

[Xen]

23 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

You cant build anything, because as soon as you start to, the biggest clubs will take your best players.

If you do as we have done and focus on youth, bring them through to PL level then tie them down on 4-5 year long contracts, then as a club we're financially secure enough not to be pressured into selling and instead keep them for at least 2 years before we choose to offload them. Doing so increases the fee we get for them, gives us time to find/develop their replacements, and we have that window of opportunity where we can push for success and hopefully progress enough that some of them stay.

 

It'll take a couple of consecutive years of positive development to reach that point, of course, but we've started the process well, have a world-class training facility in the works and a promising academy squad to work with.

[urban fox]

36 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

You cant build anything, because as soon as you start to, the biggest clubs will take your best players.

unless of course there is enough of them to actually win something.  Generally people don't leave a winning team where there is hope and optimism for more success in the future (Ok so Kante did but see caveat at end of sentence)

[Scotch]

The key is to manage who leaves and when they leave, properly by only selling a player once we've replaced them with a younger player who may not be at the same level but has an equal or better potential. 

 

For example, we could lose Maguire and potentially be ok because we have either soyuncu or Benkovic to step up. Once that happened we would then go out and sign someone to be in the position that they to are in now which is a backup/prospect. 

We could potentially lose Ndidi and have Hamza take his place and be ok. Similair to Maddison with Barnes. As long as we then sign replacements to their successors we should be ok. The only youngster I don't think we could afford to lose tight now is Chilwell because we don't have anyone else. 

 

Obviously,not all players live up to their potential and not all signings work out so it might not always go to plan but I think we have enough there to cover us. The only thing we CAN NOT afford to happen is to lose more than one/ two of the afore mentioned in the same window because asking Benkovic, Soyuncu, Hamza and Barnes to step into the team at the same time is far too much to ask. 

[Alf Bentley]

12 hours ago, Babylon said:

Who said anything about breaking the top 6? It'll take about two decades or more to grow the club naturally to be of sufficient size to do that.

 

A little bit of research into the "Top 6".....

 

Teams from outside the "Big 6" (MC, MU, Liv, Arse, Spurs, Chelsea) finishing in the Top 6 this century, with year in brackets

 

(Bear in mind that Man City have only been mega-rich for 10 years, Chelsea for 15 years & Spurs have only been consistent "Top 6" finishers for 10 years)

 

1st: Leicester (16)

2nd: None

3rd: Newcastle (03)

4th: Leeds (01), Newcastle (02), Everton (05)

5th: Ipswich (01), Leeds (02), Newcastle (04, 12), Everton (08, 09, 14)

6th: Blackburn (03, 06), Villa (04, 08, 09, 10), Bolton (05), Everton (07, 13), Southampton (16)

 

Pretty stunning, if not depressing that LCFC 2016 is the only time in 14 years that a non-"Big 6" club has finished in the Top 4.....dating back to a time before Man City were rich, when Abramovich was new at Chelsea & Everton were viewed as "Big 5".

Also, including this season, 2015-16 was the only time in the last 5 years when the "Big/Top 6" were not the actual Top 6.

 

So, breaking into the Top 6 is becoming ever more difficult.

 

There's the natural, long-term development route described by Babylon and others. I suppose there's also the glimmer of hope that a solid PL team (like LCFC) can acquire or develop a couple of outstanding players, allowing them to challenge for the top 6 (particularly if one or more of the big boys has a crisis season for whatever reason). That might allow a one-off incursion into the Top 6, before top players are picked off by the richest clubs...

[TheLittleBigMan]

10 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

you’re living in a dreamworld if you think any of our players will stay if an offer from higher up the league comes in. 

Vards didn't. Oh and slab head. Kante wasn't planning on staying anyway so it's just been drinky and marhez. I think we'll be fine. 

[ScouseFox]

Just now, TheLittleBigMan said:

Vards didn't. Oh and slab head. In fact, it's only been Marhez so far hasn't it? 

twice today i’ve had to explain that vardy didn’t 3 years ago. we’re a very different club now. 

 

i doubt there was any serious interest in maguire. if a top 6 club genuinely wanted any of our players, they will want to leave. we might keep them for a transfer window or two longer (like mahrez) due to demanding a big fee, but does anyone really think a maddison or a chilwell is going to stay, playing depressing football, losing most weeks whilst being booed off by their own fans as opposed to doubling their wages and winning trophies? 

 

come off it. like i said in another thread, even as a leicester fan i’d leave this shower of shite in an instant. 

[Analysethis]

15 hours ago, Babylon said:

Who said anything about breaking the top 6? It'll take about two decades or more to grow the club naturally to be of sufficient size to do that.

I dont agree with that, not one bit.

 

Man Utd went from 13th place in 1990 and within a couple of seasons as the kids got game time became world beaters. It doesn't happen often but with some great signings along with a few players through the academy in Barnes, Hamza and Chilwell we have the nucleus of a real outstanding team. The fact that Claude has opted away from the likes of King, Iborra and Silva for younger players has made the youngsters improve quicktime. Hamza and Chilwell in particular. Now Im not saying we have players on a par to that great group of kids but they only got better with game time and flourished. We now have a shed load of unreal young talent and the vultures will be circling around to delve in because they are that good. People may be blase into the quality of our players but the likes of Ndidi and Chilwell among others are quite clearly the amongst the best in there age group in the division.

 

Personally I think if we keep the kids, keep the likes of mid 20s like Periera and Maguire and add a couple we could easily break the top 6. 

 

BTW I think thats why there is so much frustration towards Claude. As a group we are under performing. If he or whoever can do the above, we could challenge the top 6 IMO

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, Analysethis said:

I dont agree with that, not one bit.

 

Man Utd went from 13th place in 1990 and within a couple of seasons as the kids got game time became world beaters. It doesn't happen often but with some great signings along with a few players through the academy in Barnes, Hamza and Chilwell we have the nucleus of a real outstanding team. The fact that Claude has opted away from the likes of King, Iborra and Silva for younger players has made the youngsters improve quicktime. Hamza and Chilwell in particular. Now Im not saying we have players on a par to that great group of kids but they only got better with game time and flourished. We now have a shed load of unreal young talent and the vultures will be circling around to delve in because they are that good. People may be blase into the quality of our players but the likes of Ndidi and Chilwell among others are quite clearly the amongst the best in there age group in the division.

 

Personally I think if we keep the kids, keep the likes of mid 20s like Periera and Maguire and add a couple we could easily break the top 6. 

 

BTW I think thats why there is so much frustration towards Claude. As a group we are under performing. If he or whoever can do the above, we could challenge the top 6 IMO

We are not Manchester United, in 1990 they might have finished 13th... but in the previous eleven years they had finished in the top four seven times and had an averaged a crowd of 40,000+. We are light years away from being what they were even back then. 

 

We do not have unreal talent either, we have lots of potential with little having been proven by most of them. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

7 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The Club cannot tread water and wait forever.

Wait forever for what? Ask the 100's of football teams below us in the football pyramid how we doing. 

[Captain...]

There is definitely an opportunity, but there is also a danger we will turn into Southampton.

 

If I was a young aspiring British footballer Leicester would top of my list of clubs to go to, but I would see it as a stepping stone. Which is fine you get the likes of Maddison, Maguire, Chilwell (or Ndidi, Ricardo, Bencovic for non British players) to sign benefit from their skills and sell them on for a massive profit to invest in the next generation.

 

The issue is we have wasted so much money on poor recruitment that I’m not sure how realistic that is for us. I suppose most of the wasted money has not been on young players, apart from Nacho, but on established players like Silva, Ghezzal, Slimani.

 

It still feels like disjointed thinking from the club at the moment. Signing 3 centre backs in the summer, panic buying Ghezzal, and having a squad of 27 professionals was not good business and to sustain this model we need to be Daniel Levy like in our approach to transfers.

[knitro]

9 hours ago, Xen said:

 

You claim you agree with the post then disagree with one of the main points.

 

Are there other managers capable of doing what Puel is doing? Of course. Could some of them do it better than Puel? That's a matter of opinion, but probably. However, you've completely missed the point. Changing managers again sets everything back. There's a period of uncertainty, minor changes to styles/approaches, and you go back to square one.

 

Changing manager may work out to be a good decision in the long run, but if we never let a manager get past a second season then we're never going to see that 'long run' stage, and all we're doing is gradually setting ourselves back again and again until we end up like Swansea or Southampton. Puel is in the 'mid-game' right now and a rocky period at the minute. If he comes out of it on an upward curve then we'll have been vindicated to stick by him.

My thoughts as well - I can come off as a beret wearing president of the Puel fan club, but that's not really the case, I just believe in the club's apparent vision and like the perceived plan as I understand it. I appreciate that no matter who's at the helm, it's going to take some time to see it bear fruit. Claude's pedigree is actually quite impressive pre-Southhampton, who remember were widely perceived until a few season ago as the club which did it right and most likely to break into the top 6 after finishes of 8th and 7th in the season before our Championship. I really think the Puel Out crowd should revisit the transfer activity at Southhampton which preceded Puel's arrival and what he was able to work with while there. They basically emptied his cupboard and then asked him where the gourmet dinner was. 

 

Time will tell if we can actually execute this vision or if Claude is the guy to do it, but for now our transfers under Puel give me a lot of confidence, as does his talent getting young players ready to play, and the fact that he's pretty steely against strong criticism - stubborn for some is steadfast for others. The period of time we're in right now is the definition of growing pains and as frustrating as it is to accept, staying the course with an eye to the future is the smartest thing we can do. 

 

 

[Captain...]

23 minutes ago, knitro said:

My thoughts as well - I can come off as a beret wearing president of the Puel fan club, but that's not really the case, I just believe in the club's apparent vision and like the perceived plan as I understand it. I appreciate that no matter who's at the helm, it's going to take some time to see it bear fruit. Claude's pedigree is actually quite impressive pre-Southhampton, who remember were widely perceived until a few season ago as the club which did it right and most likely to break into the top 6 after finishes of 8th and 7th in the season before our Championship. I really think the Puel Out crowd should revisit the transfer activity at Southhampton which preceded Puel's arrival and what he was able to work with while there. They basically emptied his cupboard and then asked him where the gourmet dinner was. 

 

Time will tell if we can actually execute this vision or if Claude is the guy to do it, but for now our transfers under Puel give me a lot of confidence, as does his talent getting young players ready to play, and the fact that he's pretty steely against strong criticism - stubborn for some is steadfast for others. The period of time we're in right now is the definition of growing pains and as frustrating as it is to accept, staying the course with an eye to the future is the smartest thing we can do. 

 

 

But how much influence does Puel have over targets? Credit Puel for playing the young players, but I don’t know how much he had to do with signing Maddison, he’d been on our radar for a while, he might have helped identify Ricardo, but our philosophy for a while has been sign young players and develop them. 

 

Going back to the Pearson pups, Drinkwater, Knockaert, James, De Laet, Ben Marshall, Chris Wood, Mahrez. All signed in their early 20s and developed by the club and we made quite a bit of money on those we sold.

 

The next phase of youngsters included Tom Lawrence, Gray, Amartey, Kramaric, Ndidi, Kapustka.

 

It is not new that we have spent big chasing young talent, I think it has been a clear policy from the club after Sven’s excesses and the introduction of FFP. What Puel is doing is playing them and bringing through academy players like Chilwell and Choudray. 

 

When end we had Pearson’s Pups they were inconsistent and had some terrible runs until some experience was added the season we romped the Championship we added Kevin Phillips, Marcin Waselewski, Gary Taylor Fletcher and Dean Hammond. They brought an invaluable level of experience that helped us over the line. What I’m saying is you need a blend of youth and experience and one of our problems could be a reliance on youth and a need for a few calmer heads when things get tough. 

[fuchsntf]

4 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

twice today i’ve had to explain that vardy didn’t 3 years ago. we’re a very different club now. 

 

i doubt there was any serious interest in maguire. if a top 6 club genuinely wanted any of our players, they will want to leave. we might keep them for a transfer window or two longer (like mahrez) due to demanding a big fee, but does anyone really think a maddison or a chilwell is going to stay, playing depressing football, losing most weeks whilst being booed off by their own fans as opposed to doubling their wages and winning trophies? 

 

come off it. like i said in another thread, even as a leicester fan i’d leave this shower of shite in an instant. 

[yks]

I think the model is selling one or two players to big clubs a season at high prices, while the money is reinvested either in other younger propects who will be sold a few seasons later (Maddison, Soyuncu, Benkovic...) or "cheap" experimented players with top 6 potential (Ricardo, Evans...) when and where experience is needed in the squad.

Add to that a huge loan and it's precisely the Lyon model & struggles (except they aim for CL every season and only have one adversary who has way more economic power than them).
Even if they lost the likes of Lacazette, Umtiti, Tolisso, Mariano, Diakhaby, etc in the last three seasons they still have a really good team with players already wanted by the top clubs (Fekir, Ndombele, Aouar, Mendy, Depay) and who will make them earn a lot of money to continue the cycle and their progression.

[Babylon]

15 hours ago, David Hankey said:

We're continually being told by some quarters to be patient. The marjority of supporters of this Club have been for years. We were extremely patient for many a long season before we arrived back in the EPL and experience the immense success that has brought. Now, again, we have to be patient withe the youngsters. Great, but what if some of these youngsters don't attain their pereceived potential many years down the line? The Club cannot tread water and wait forever.

So what's the other option? Do you have the money to buy the club and spend billions on it?

[Babylon]

7 hours ago, Captain... said:

There is definitely an opportunity, but there is also a danger we will turn into Southampton.

 

If I was a young aspiring British footballer Leicester would top of my list of clubs to go to, but I would see it as a stepping stone. Which is fine you get the likes of Maddison, Maguire, Chilwell (or Ndidi, Ricardo, Bencovic for non British players) to sign benefit from their skills and sell them on for a massive profit to invest in the next generation.

 

The issue is we have wasted so much money on poor recruitment that I’m not sure how realistic that is for us. I suppose most of the wasted money has not been on young players, apart from Nacho, but on established players like Silva, Ghezzal, Slimani.

 

It still feels like disjointed thinking from the club at the moment. Signing 3 centre backs in the summer, panic buying Ghezzal, and having a squad of 27 professionals was not good business and to sustain this model we need to be Daniel Levy like in our approach to transfers.

Southampton sold their entire team in the space of three seasons. We've shown absolutely no signs of being willing to cash in at that level.

 

We bought the centre backs because the summer coming we could have been left with just Evans on the books. Needing to recruit three or maybe even four centre backs in one window would have been suicide, for once we've forward planned for a problem that had been looming for years. Yes, two would have been fine, with with strong interest in Maguire we clearly got someone in to cover the chance he was going and we clearly thought he might.

 

Can we give Ghezzal bashing a week off considering he came on and looked a better bet than most of the others to create something.

[LCFC FOX]

The owners clearly stated they wanted to be a top 5 club. With the new training ground, stadium expansion and the youngest side in the division I’d be very dissapointded if we couldn’t compete for 6th spot every season within the next five years.

[Hanan96]

8 hours ago, Captain... said:

There is definitely an opportunity, but there is also a danger we will turn into Southampton.

 

If I was a young aspiring British footballer Leicester would top of my list of clubs to go to, but I would see it as a stepping stone. Which is fine you get the likes of Maddison, Maguire, Chilwell (or Ndidi, Ricardo, Bencovic for non British players) to sign benefit from their skills and sell them on for a massive profit to invest in the next generation.

 

The issue is we have wasted so much money on poor recruitment that I’m not sure how realistic that is for us. I suppose most of the wasted money has not been on young players, apart from Nacho, but on established players like Silva, Ghezzal, Slimani.

 

It still feels like disjointed thinking from the club at the moment. Signing 3 centre backs in the summer, panic buying Ghezzal, and having a squad of 27 professionals was not good business and to sustain this model we need to be Daniel Levy like in our approach to transfers.

Agree with first part but not the second. 

 

We sign 3 cb, 2 is young and preparation for maguire leaves. Another one is supposedly ready use player on very cheap money, only 3 millions. If not for injury issues, he's a very good signing. 

Previously our cb are morgan, maguire, dragovic. Another one is benaloiane,nobody wants him. 

Dragovic already left, maguire keep hunted by man utd, while Morgan said couple times his body start to aches. So we need 3cb

 

Ghezzal? He's signed for depth. Back then we have gray, diabate as attacking winger with Albrighton.  3 winger which 2 will be played is too risky as we need at least 2 for every position. 

[ThaiFox]

7 hours ago, Captain... said:

But how much influence does Puel have over targets? Credit Puel for playing the young players, but I don’t know how much he had to do with signing Maddison, he’d been on our radar for a while, he might have helped identify Ricardo, but our philosophy for a while has been sign young players and develop them. 

 

Going back to the Pearson pups, Drinkwater, Knockaert, James, De Laet, Ben Marshall, Chris Wood, Mahrez. All signed in their early 20s and developed by the club and we made quite a bit of money on those we sold.

 

The next phase of youngsters included Tom Lawrence, Gray, Amartey, Kramaric, Ndidi, Kapustka.

 

It is not new that we have spent big chasing young talent, I think it has been a clear policy from the club after Sven’s excesses and the introduction of FFP. What Puel is doing is playing them and bringing through academy players like Chilwell and Choudray. 

 

When end we had Pearson’s Pups they were inconsistent and had some terrible runs until some experience was added the season we romped the Championship we added Kevin Phillips, Marcin Waselewski, Gary Taylor Fletcher and Dean Hammond. They brought an invaluable level of experience that helped us over the line. What I’m saying is you need a blend of youth and experience and one of our problems could be a reliance on youth and a need for a few calmer heads when things get tough. 

Didn't Maddison sign for us ahead of his reported preferred club Southampton, because of Puel, and his policy of playing and improving younger players?

 

Totally agree about signing those old pros. I credit Marcin Waselewski as one of our most brilliant signings ever. Just great for us!

[lanefox]

We nedd to have realistic expectations of the club , we’re at the beginning of molding the club into a top half team.

 

look at spurs for example they had numerous seasons in the uefa/europa league until only recently becoming a top 4 club , it can be done but it’s going to take 5-10 years to get where some people think we should be

[whoareyaaa]

We are going in the right direction keep this core group of players together bring in Rodgers and we should see further progress next season.

 

We do have an exciting group of young players that will only get better and the model we currently adopt is the right way to go. 

 

As mush stick as we have given Puel he has done a fantastic job allowing the younger group get game time and become better players while still maintaining our position in the league.

 

the future looks Albright.