Gamble92 Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 After each loss we keep hearing what a young, promising side we have with England internationals and we should be grateful to be in this position. Whilst i agree it is great to be just behind the top 6, pushing for that 7th spot with all this young talent, is it naive to think we can simply slowly build a side ready to break the top 6? It'd be great to think we are working towards the chance to do that. And in theory Maguire, Maddison, Chilwell, Gray, Ndidi, Barnes etc are only going to get better. But the vultures come and pick the best bits and suddenly we are left with our overpaid old guard and back at square one. I want to be patient with this team and i appreciate more than anyone what we have been through in the past 15 years, so believe me im happy to be where we are. But its only natural to want to see us fufilling our potential and not settling to be a mid table team, when we have the ability here to be so much more. So is it realistic to think we are building a squad to progress further and keep off the big guns? Or should we be happy with mid table as the pinnacle of success?
knitro Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 Yes there is, which is why everyone should be patient, I think our approach is the right one. If we cannot attract/afford the stars of today, let's invest in the budding stars of tomorrow (which we are doing) and then do our best to retain them. We can do this by providing world class facilities, investing heavily in the academy, building a great team environment and CONSISTENCY IN APPROACH (which means retaining management season over season). Before winning more trophies, if we can be an attractive, stable environment who treats players well, that will serve us well. That's why it's a good thing we moved Iborra despite not necessarily wanting to and it's also why treating players who've been sunsetted with dignity may mean some short term pain (hint, handling the old guard delicately as they're cast aside). Ultimately the sport involves people and you can be decent to them. I think the thinking that when the vultures swoop that means the team gets picked apart is an old way of thinking and not reflected by our recent history - we've done incredibly well to retain top players all things considered, and all the early contract extensions reflect our commitment to the build. The league is no longer one where only the top 6 (which use to be a top 5, top 4 etc) can pay top wages and Leicester has proven that you can become a full international playing here. Yes, these guys want Champions League but to act like its a sole overarching motivator is a bit facile. Besides, there's dozens of cautionary tales about what happens when you abandon the one in hand for two in the bush. How many players off the top of your head get brought into a 'big club' as the next best thing, only to see management shift and they fall out of favor as a bust - innumerable examples. That's not to say you won't get players who believe they are up to snuff but so long as they go for a fair price, that's okay. All about a handful of clubs in the world experience this - it's the cost of doing business and if you're doing everything else right, you can absorb a loss here and there. Finally, the notion that the top teams will always be top teams doesn't hold water - the Premier League era is less than 30 years old and nothing about it is set in stone. Man City and Chelsea were not always so well regarded, and somewhere below you can find Villa and Forest fans talking about what once was. How do you take on the perennial favorites? You have to be calculated, you have to have a long view. Ultimately, the barrier to entry to the top is a club's ambition, which we have in spades and time, which some here don't want to give. Personally I love almost everything the ownership has done since the title (The Shakespeare era and vast signings of 29 year olds a notable exception), including hiring Puel (sacrilege I know). This isn't a moneymaking scheme for the Thais, nor a vanity hobby - they're sportsman who want to succeed - truly the best possible type of ownership.
Babylon Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 Who said anything about breaking the top 6? It'll take about two decades or more to grow the club naturally to be of sufficient size to do that.
Dahnsouff Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 58 minutes ago, Babylon said: Who said anything about breaking the top 6? It'll take about two decades or more to grow the club naturally to be of sufficient size to do that. Not sure what you are saying. Is that negative or just setting expectations?
Babylon Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: Not sure what you are saying. Is that negative or just setting expectations? I'm saying we aren't breaking top 6 anytime soon. He seemed to pose the question if the club was naive to think it could, when they haven't publically stated that. For years it's been "competitive at the right end of the table" comments. Dreams of this model doing that need to be realistic, it takes substantial investment way beyond ours over a sustained period of time to do it. So doing it naturally needs time to not only nurture talent but to grow the club off the field, which is likely to take decades. Our model is pretty much the only model if money isn't going to be invested heavily. Yes we'll lose players, yes it will take time with zero guarantees... but what is the other option? There isn't one. It's almost like people think there is option B of the owners investing 2 billion to be another Man City. It's not happening, forget it.
st albans fox Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 The best Players will leave I’m afraid ....... we can’t compete with some of the largest clubs. Rashford is just about to sign a 150k/week deal we cant compete and whilst we will get a very good fee for our players, we won’t be able to keep them if there is genuine interest from those big four who pay the highest wages (and will offer a real chance of CL football ) hence, I cannot see how we break into that top six without one of them having a very poor season and as for top four ........
Grebfromgrebland Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 FFP and the European competitions have been set up to stop new teams entering the elite. This is probably as good as it gets unless something changes.
yorkie1999 Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 Yes, if we get one of those two big lads upfront from newport.
Mark 'expert' Lawrenson Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 Finish midtable each season, squeeze into a European spot occasionally and try and and win a domestic cup competition, our best players will leave, that’s almost certain so our recruitment has to be spot on.
Lionheart10 Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 6 hours ago, Gamble92 said: After each loss we keep hearing what a young, promising side we have with England internationals and we should be grateful to be in this position. Whilst i agree it is great to be just behind the top 6, pushing for that 7th spot with all this young talent, is it naive to think we can simply slowly build a side ready to break the top 6? It'd be great to think we are working towards the chance to do that. And in theory Maguire, Maddison, Chilwell, Gray, Ndidi, Barnes etc are only going to get better. But the vultures come and pick the best bits and suddenly we are left with our overpaid old guard and back at square one. I want to be patient with this team and i appreciate more than anyone what we have been through in the past 15 years, so believe me im happy to be where we are. But its only natural to want to see us fufilling our potential and not settling to be a mid table team, when we have the ability here to be so much more. So is it realistic to think we are building a squad to progress further and keep off the big guns? Or should we be happy with mid table as the pinnacle of success? I fear this is exactly what will happen,we won't get the chance for this group to get better together as the big boys will definitely come after them if they are good enough.Good Defenders in particular are in high demand so not sure we'll hang on to Maguire,Chilwell & Ricardo long,in fact expect Maguire to go this summer.
Simoken Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 LCFC is becoming known as a world best destination for academy youth to develop and establishing that will only be good for business and the price of talent 'big clubs' are looking for. I think we were compared to Dortmond very recently in regards to development and thats incredible. The £100 training ground been tipped as the most advanced complex in europe aswell as the 1st team holding a stupidly young squad. The potential for LCFC right now is massive and thats an understatement. Putting inconsistency aside currently, Young players will always learn and never become the finished article and thats exciting and will always look up for advice and hunger. I hope people see these improvements the club done for them. and look back. I cant wait to see the new builds and upgrades to the facility and see what this attracts and im sure higher quality of player will have there heads turned! I have said it before and Puel is the right man for LCFC in this transitional era for the club and i hope his reign continues because he understands the owners vision i believe. Lets see how we look 3 years from now. #patientfox
Fox92 Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 Can't build anything without time. See Nigel Pearson. Everything wasn't perfect under him but he built, got time and got it right. The only with Puel, though I do think he is a good builder, is how defensive and slow we are. And I can't see us ever changing from being defensive while he is here.
Arriba Los Zorros Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 We have the chance to build something special with the current crop of players but unfortunately Claude puel is not the man to make it happen
ScouseFox Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 you’re living in a dreamworld if you think any of our players will stay if an offer from higher up the league comes in.
davieG Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 Teams at every level lose players, Coutino, Bale, etc. Obviously at our level we're likely to lose more but the secret is to replace them with proper plans to recruit replacements and develop them up or nick the young talent from bigger clubs who aren't getting games. This is why we're spending millions on the training centre and are recruiting more young talent. It's a risk, but then still safer than blowing £50mill on one player who may not work out or get injured and is a more sustainable option. Even if it fails and we got relegated which could happy which ever route you take you at least have a pool of young talent to build on rather than all your expensive buys saying goodbye, adiós, adieu, addio, adeus, aloha. arrivederci. ciao. auf Wiedersehen. au revoir. bon voyage. sayonara.
Babylon Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 7 hours ago, knitro said: Finally, the notion that the top teams will always be top teams doesn't hold water - the Premier League era is less than 30 years old and nothing about it is set in stone. Man City and Chelsea were not always so well regarded, and somewhere below you can find Villa and Forest fans talking about what once was. How do you take on the perennial favorites? You have to be calculated, you have to have a long view. Ultimately, the barrier to entry to the top is a club's ambition, which we have in spades and time, which some here don't want to give. Personally I love almost everything the ownership has done since the title (The Shakespeare era and vast signings of 29 year olds a notable exception), including hiring Puel (sacrilege I know). This isn't a moneymaking scheme for the Thais, nor a vanity hobby - they're sportsman who want to succeed - truly the best possible type of ownership. Sadly they are becoming set in stone due to how the systems are now rigged to favour those teams, it never used to be like that. With your history now dictating how much prize money you get in European competitions, and not performance. It's a joke. The only one in danger is Spurs, their performance is very much linked to the manager and a couple of players. Lose them and they could be at risk of sliding out as they don't invest what the others do in their team regularly.
Rusko187 Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 Totally agree with @knitro post which was well written, from a Puel out view I agree with all comments but I do question this manager. Not to change this on a Puel out view I just don't believe he is the only man in the world capable of doing what we're setting out to achieve.
MrLuke Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 8 hours ago, knitro said: Yes there is, which is why everyone should be patient, I think our approach is the right one. If we cannot attract/afford the stars of today, let's invest in the budding stars of tomorrow (which we are doing) and then do our best to retain them. We can do this by providing world class facilities, investing heavily in the academy, building a great team environment and CONSISTENCY IN APPROACH (which means retaining management season over season). Before winning more trophies, if we can be an attractive, stable environment who treats players well, that will serve us well. That's why it's a good thing we moved Iborra despite not necessarily wanting to and it's also why treating players who've been sunsetted with dignity may mean some short term pain (hint, handling the old guard delicately as they're cast aside). Ultimately the sport involves people and you can be decent to them. I think the thinking that when the vultures swoop that means the team gets picked apart is an old way of thinking and not reflected by our recent history - we've done incredibly well to retain top players all things considered, and all the early contract extensions reflect our commitment to the build. The league is no longer one where only the top 6 (which use to be a top 5, top 4 etc) can pay top wages and Leicester has proven that you can become a full international playing here. Yes, these guys want Champions League but to act like its a sole overarching motivator is a bit facile. Besides, there's dozens of cautionary tales about what happens when you abandon the one in hand for two in the bush. How many players off the top of your head get brought into a 'big club' as the next best thing, only to see management shift and they fall out of favor as a bust - innumerable examples. That's not to say you won't get players who believe they are up to snuff but so long as they go for a fair price, that's okay. All about a handful of clubs in the world experience this - it's the cost of doing business and if you're doing everything else right, you can absorb a loss here and there. Finally, the notion that the top teams will always be top teams doesn't hold water - the Premier League era is less than 30 years old and nothing about it is set in stone. Man City and Chelsea were not always so well regarded, and somewhere below you can find Villa and Forest fans talking about what once was. How do you take on the perennial favorites? You have to be calculated, you have to have a long view. Ultimately, the barrier to entry to the top is a club's ambition, which we have in spades and time, which some here don't want to give. Personally I love almost everything the ownership has done since the title (The Shakespeare era and vast signings of 29 year olds a notable exception), including hiring Puel (sacrilege I know). This isn't a moneymaking scheme for the Thais, nor a vanity hobby - they're sportsman who want to succeed - truly the best possible type of ownership. Bang on, and incredibly well written. Maintaining Premier League status and evolving the club may not initially be exciting, but if the vision the owners and manager have does come to fruition, we’ll be more forgiving over some of the dross we’ve had to sit through.
walkerleeds Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 3 hours ago, m4DD0gg said: 100% yes with the right manager.
Xen Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 10 hours ago, knitro said: We can do this by providing world class facilities, investing heavily in the academy, building a great team environment and CONSISTENCY IN APPROACH (which means retaining management season over season). 1 hour ago, Rusko187 said: Totally agree with @knitro post which was well written, from a Puel out view I agree with all comments but I do question this manager. Not to change this on a Puel out view I just don't believe he is the only man in the world capable of doing what we're setting out to achieve. You claim you agree with the post then disagree with one of the main points. Are there other managers capable of doing what Puel is doing? Of course. Could some of them do it better than Puel? That's a matter of opinion, but probably. However, you've completely missed the point. Changing managers again sets everything back. There's a period of uncertainty, minor changes to styles/approaches, and you go back to square one. Changing manager may work out to be a good decision in the long run, but if we never let a manager get past a second season then we're never going to see that 'long run' stage, and all we're doing is gradually setting ourselves back again and again until we end up like Swansea or Southampton. Puel is in the 'mid-game' right now and a rocky period at the minute. If he comes out of it on an upward curve then we'll have been vindicated to stick by him.
David Hankey Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 We're continually being told by some quarters to be patient. The marjority of supporters of this Club have been for years. We were extremely patient for many a long season before we arrived back in the EPL and experience the immense success that has brought. Now, again, we have to be patient withe the youngsters. Great, but what if some of these youngsters don't attain their pereceived potential many years down the line? The Club cannot tread water and wait forever.
Rusko187 Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 1 minute ago, Xen said: You claim you agree with the post then disagree with one of the main points. Are there other managers capable of doing what Puel is doing? Of course. Could some of them do it better than Puel? That's a matter of opinion, but probably. However, you've completely missed the point. Changing managers again sets everything back. There's a period of uncertainty, minor changes to styles/approaches, and you go back to square one. Changing manager may work out to be a good decision in the long run, but if we never let a manager get past a second season then we're never going to see that 'long run' stage, and all we're doing is gradually setting ourselves back again and again until we end up like Swansea or Southampton. Puel is in the 'mid-game' right now and a rocky period at the minute. If he comes out of it on an upward curve then we'll have been vindicated to stick by him. My point is that consistency in managers I totally agree is important, but at the same time some managers don't necessarily work out with some clubs. In my opinion I feel the style of football that Puel is trying to implement is too defensive (as evidenced with persistently playing 2 defensive midfielders and on some occasions 3). Whilst I understand the likes of Pochettino is on for bigger things and no chance of coming to Leicester, he has a policy for promoting youth with an exciting attacking style of football and when given time can reap positive results. For that my point is that with the right manager with the right style I am more than happy to allow time even if results don't always come about, Puel may be good at bringing through youth but there are other managers out in this world who are capable and can do it better. hopefully that explains my position on this view better.
CosbehFox Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 7 minutes ago, David Hankey said: We're continually being told by some quarters to be patient. The marjority of supporters of this Club have been for years. We were extremely patient for many a long season before we arrived back in the EPL and experience the immense success that has brought. Now, again, we have to be patient withe the youngsters. Great, but what if some of these youngsters don't attain their pereceived potential many years down the line? The Club cannot tread water and wait forever. Out of interest, what would you define has success for LCFC currently?
Guest Bob Hazels shorts Posted 7 February 2019 Posted 7 February 2019 Does seem only a matter of time before we lose Eduardo Macia, who seems to be touted and has the respect of many clubs. Quote LCFC.COM He is responsible for managing the recruitment department and implementing the short, medium and long-term player transfer strategy. His recruitment of late has been good after a flurry of good buys on paper but not on grass. Puel is credited with the inevitable development continuation of Barnes, Hamza and Chilwell (the latter being linked with Liverpool and making debut 2 years pre Puel) whilst to be applauded it'd be difficult to not play them. Be fantastic to see all of these lads stay together and be joined by other through the system. Do have to brace ourselves for departures though.
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