Harvey Barnes

[honeybradger]

22 minutes ago, StanSP said:

That's not the same as getting less when reaching his peak though?

 

You only think he's overperformed because you clearly don't rate him. I don't get how you can 'reach your peak' but still have less numbers than when you didn't reach your peak beforehand  

 

I also don't get how you can say 'he doesn't create enough' when he has the joint-5th most assists in the league.

 

Same as Mahrez and Salah .

 

I'm in no way saying he's as good as those players but they've technically 'created' the same amount of goals as Barnes...

How is saying he can get 10 goals 5 assists next year not rating him? Fact is he's created the same number of goals as those players but half the number of chances that's all im pointing out. Saying he's got 8 assists so he must be a creative winger is disingenuous as from watching matches you can see he doesnt create enough chances to warrant those numbers. If he creates the same number of chances for the next few seasons he will get 4/5 assists, in his peak hopefully he will double the number of chances he creates therefore justifying his 8 assists but right now this season is an anomaly for him assists wise.

[Chrysalis]

4 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

I think his team mates need to trust him more in possession. He gets in to good positions one on one and can create something. Maddison especially needs to look for him more.

towards the end of last game he was given 2 chances, both times he passed it straight back to the passer, when I felt he should have turned to try and beat his man, if he succeeded he would have been in a position to do a cutback.

[deejdeej]

Honestly if you read some of the drivel in here and the match threads you'd think half of our fans are desperate for him to fail.

Another fall guy for our weird section of support.

 

Personally I think he's going to be an absolute class player.

[Chrysalis]

2 minutes ago, deejdeej said:

Honestly if you read some of the drivel in here and the match threads you'd think half of our fans are desperate for him to fail.

Another fall guy for our weird section of support.

 

Personally I think he's going to be an absolute class player.

How do you translate comments that are not patting him on the back as wanting him to fail? seems such an odd line of thought.  

 

I did praise him a few days ago for his composure in feeding Vardy in the palace game, in the arsenal game, his lack of confidence to take his man on I picked up on, hence the comment about the two passes.

[deejdeej]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

How do you translate comments that are not patting him on the back as wanting him to fail? seems such an odd line of thought.  

 

I did praise him a few days ago for his composure in feeding Vardy in the palace game, in the arsenal game, his lack of confidence to take his man on I picked up on, hence the comment about the two passes.

I had quite a few pages to catch up on, my post wasn't aimed at your comments as much. At least you can see the potential.

Oh yeah he does some stupid things! But he's always trying to make stuff happen which is going to contribute in him looking silly sometimes. That through ball to a just offside Vardy was outrageous.

[urban fox]

Barnes is a very talented footballer but it does worry me that he occasionally goes missing in games. When at WBA it was the same. Sometimes brilliant, sometimes anonymous going AWOL often for chunks of games. I just think he is that sort of player, you don't really notice him until he  until he gets his head up and starts running at people. I can see why Chilwell gets frustrated at times as he offers nothing in terms of helping out defensively.  Mahrez was similar, would often drift in and out of games, never tracked back but that was OK as we had Simpson who got a nosebleed if he went over the halfway line. If we are playing with attacking FB's then the wingers need to be prepared to drop and help out occasionally and this is one part of his game that he needs to improve.

When he is on it, he is exciting to watch but he seems to lack that bit of experience to be able to force his way into a game if not seeing enough of the ball. I am sure that the coacjing staff have picked up on this and will be working with him to improve this aspect of his game.

Like all young players, achieving that level of consistency will take a bit of time but i do think he will be a major asset in the coming seasons.

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, urban fox said:

Barnes is a very talented footballer but it does worry me that he occasionally goes missing in games. When at WBA it was the same. Sometimes brilliant, sometimes anonymous going AWOL often for chunks of games. I just think he is that sort of player, you don't really notice him until he  until he gets his head up and starts running at people. I can see why Chilwell gets frustrated at times as he offers nothing in terms of helping out defensively.  Mahrez was similar, would often drift in and out of games, never tracked back but that was OK as we had Simpson who got a nosebleed if he went over the halfway line. If we are playing with attacking FB's then the wingers need to be prepared to drop and help out occasionally and this is one part of his game that he needs to improve.

When he is on it, he is exciting to watch but he seems to lack that bit of experience to be able to force his way into a game if not seeing enough of the ball. I am sure that the coacjing staff have picked up on this and will be working with him to improve this aspect of his game.

Like all young players, achieving that level of consistency will take a bit of time but i do think he will be a major asset in the coming seasons.

That's possibly why 3-4-1-2 / 3-4-3 works much better for Barnes as the LCB and LWB cover the left half of our pitch and then Barnes has the licence to roam from left to the centre.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

18 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Personally think the number of assists flatters him, hes not been as creative as that table suggests. I do think he could become a 10-15 goal a season winger which would be incredible but i dont see him getting more than 8 assists in the future even in his peak years.

 Give the lad a break, you’re even picking holes in his assists, he’s assisted in 8 goals, that is however which way you look at it a fact.

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

 Give the lad a break, you’re even picking holes in his assists, he’s assisted in 8 goals, that is however which way you look at it a fact.

It's certainly a bizarre prediction, some of his assists this season have been unbelievable. Outside of the boot to set Vardy free away at Man City, that defence splitting chip to Perez for his 2nd away at Southampton and possibly my favourite was his run and cross with his weaker foot at home to Burnley where Vardy buried a header against a defence who are very dominant at defending crosses.

[coolhandfox]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

It's certainly a bizarre prediction, some of his assists this season have been unbelievable. Outside of the boot to set Vardy free away at Man City, that defence splitting chip to Perez for his 2nd away at Southampton and possibly my favourite was his run and cross with his weaker foot at home to Burnley where Vardy buried a header against a defence who are very dominant at defending crosses.

100% this, I've read posts about he's passing being poor, but most of his assist have come from great passes or crosses! 

 

He's a typical flair player, inconsistent, and is still learning he's trade after only playing 50 odd games! 

 

6 goals and 8 assist, from an academy product in his first full season in the PL, is a brilliant return for me! 

 

I think if he can iron out the little errors and become a little more consistent in his shooting and passing, 10 goals and 10 assist a season are easily within he's reach! 

Edited 9 July 2020 by coolhandfox

[deejdeej]

36 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

100% this, I've read posts about he's passing being poor, but most of his assist have come from great passes or crosses! 

 

He's a typical flair player, inconsistent, and is still learning he's trade after only playing 50 odd games! 

 

6 goals and 8 assist, from an academy product in his first full season in the PL, is a brilliant return for me! 

 

I think if he can iron out the little errors and become a little more consistent in his shooting and passing, 10 goals and 10 assist a season are easily within he's reach! 

That 2nd sentence is spot on. I feel like a large section of our support can't get to grips with flair players and would rather have 'someone who puts a shift in' you know.. like Burnley players.

 

Mahrez, despite being one of the best players we've ever had, was constantly getting abuse from the crowd when a Hollywood pass went wayward etc.

[Koke]

We need a top class wide man , and then Barnes/Perez can fight over the other spot. Its hard to carry 2 wingers/wide forwards who won't get 10 league goals. If we want consistent top 4 challenges, this position has to be top priority this current window.

[honeybradger]

6 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

It's certainly a bizarre prediction, some of his assists this season have been unbelievable. Outside of the boot to set Vardy free away at Man City, that defence splitting chip to Perez for his 2nd away at Southampton and possibly my favourite was his run and cross with his weaker foot at home to Burnley where Vardy buried a header against a defence who are very dominant at defending crosses.

Honestly it's insane how everyone on this forum is so black and white, i love barnes and think he's had a great season. Those southampton and manchester city passes were superb but he's created 6 big chances this season and has 8 assists, players around him on that assists table like mahrez, traore, son, robertson all have 10-12 big chances created, maddison has created more big chances and is on 3 assists, it's all dependent on if the player you're passing to can finish or not. You can back a player and say he's quality whilst also saying he's gotten a bit lucky this season and for the record im not the type to shit on players, i backed him when he was missing sitters and ill continue to back him next season even if he doesnt pull the same numbers as this season. Im just not overreacting to assist numbers when he still has a lot to work on in terms of creating chances.

[coolhandfox]

27 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Honestly it's insane how everyone on this forum is so black and white, i love barnes and think he's had a great season. Those southampton and manchester city passes were superb but he's created 6 big chances this season and has 8 assists, players around him on that assists table like mahrez, traore, son, robertson all have 10-12 big chances created, maddison has created more big chances and is on 3 assists, it's all dependent on if the player you're passing to can finish or not. You can back a player and say he's quality whilst also saying he's gotten a bit lucky this season and for the record im not the type to shit on players, i backed him when he was missing sitters and ill continue to back him next season even if he doesnt pull the same numbers as this season. Im just not overreacting to assist numbers when he still has a lot to work on in terms of creating chances.

Maddison takes free kicks and corners the fact he has only created 2 more big chance then Barnes and has 5 less assist then Barnes tell you how well Barnes has actual done!

 

Comparing a 22 year old with a seasons experience to Son 27, with 155 apps to he's name and 5 season experience in PL and Mahrez 195 apps to his name and 6 seasons experience, is unrealistic!

 

Give the kid a break!

[TrentFox]

On 08/07/2020 at 16:15, Beechey said:

Most of his assists come after he does all of the work, then he just lays it off to someone else. 

I don't expect him to be pinging balls around like De Bruyne, I expect him to run with the ball and slide other players in to (hopefully easy) goalscoring chances.

 

You don't have to be "creative" to get assists. You just need to know when to pass. He has the strength to go ride challenges, but his first touch definitely needs work.

Sorry for being pedantic ..... but isn’t that called .....well ..... erm...... an assist??? 🤷‍♂️

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, honeybradger said:

Honestly it's insane how everyone on this forum is so black and white, i love barnes and think he's had a great season. Those southampton and manchester city passes were superb but he's created 6 big chances this season and has 8 assists, players around him on that assists table like mahrez, traore, son, robertson all have 10-12 big chances created, maddison has created more big chances and is on 3 assists, it's all dependent on if the player you're passing to can finish or not. You can back a player and say he's quality whilst also saying he's gotten a bit lucky this season and for the record im not the type to shit on players, i backed him when he was missing sitters and ill continue to back him next season even if he doesnt pull the same numbers as this season. Im just not overreacting to assist numbers when he still has a lot to work on in terms of creating chances.

He's got assists at every level he's played, I think you'll just have to accept that people find your reasoning for his overachieving on his creative side as a bit bizarre. 

[honeybradger]

8 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Maddison takes free kicks and corners the fact he has only created 2 more big chance then Barnes and has 5 less assist then Barnes tell you how well Barnes has actual done!

 

Comparing a 22 year old with a seasons experience to Son 27, with 155 apps to he's name and 5 season experience in PL and Mahrez 195 apps to his name and 6 seasons experience, is unrealistic!

 

Give the kid a break!

I give up, im not shitting on him because he's not son heung min, sadio mane or mahrez ffs, im saying that 8 assists, which are the numbers that these top level players are pulling, is not his level just yet and there is nothing wrong with that! If 6+ goals and 8+ assists is Barnes's base level of performance and he's only going to improve these stats from this season maybe we should be comparing him to these players because those are absurd numbers. My point is that he's not at the level of these players just yet and the creation statistics back this up. "Give this guy a break" get off it i only have praise for him as it's his first season and he's been top quality but we need to stop comparing him to the top creators in the league as it's setting expectations too high, he's overperformed this season, now he needs to kick on in the next few seasons and improve so he can reach 8+ assists whilst also having the stats to back it up.

[StanSP]

3 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

I give up, im not shitting on him because he's not son heung min, sadio mane or mahrez ffs, im saying that 8 assists, which are the numbers that these top level players are pulling, is not his level just yet and there is nothing wrong with that! If 6+ goals and 8+ assists is Barnes's base level of performance and he's only going to improve these stats from this season maybe we should be comparing him to these players because those are absurd numbers. My point is that he's not at the level of these players just yet and the creation statistics back this up. "Give this guy a break" get off it i only have praise for him as it's his first season and he's been top quality but we need to stop comparing him to the top creators in the league as it's setting expectations too high, he's overperformed this season, now he needs to kick on in the next few seasons and improve so he can reach 8+ assists whilst also having the stats to back it up.

Having 8+ assists is the stat to back it up though.

[honeybradger]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He's got assists at every level he's played, I think you'll just have to accept that people find your reasoning for his overachieving on his creative side as a bit bizarre. 

Nothing bizarre about saying that him having more assists than big chances created is overperformance, it's pretty much unheard of.

Edited 9 July 2020 by honeybradger

[Beechey]

15 minutes ago, TrentFox said:

Sorry for being pedantic ..... but isn’t that called .....well ..... erm...... an assist??? 🤷‍♂️

Yes, although you miss my point.

His assists are not flukes, they're "legitimate" assists.

He's not assisting in a manner whereby he just passes to someone else who does all the work and scores, for example. He's actively contributing in a positive way.

Edited 9 July 2020 by Beechey

[honeybradger]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Having 8+ assists is the stat to back it up though.

We'll see next season, but if he gets less assists i dont want to see anyone getting on his back for not being as good as last year or whatever when he's still a work in progress. 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

We'll see next season, but if he gets less assists i dont want to see anyone getting on his back for not being as good as last year or whatever when he's still a work in progress. 

That might be reaching his peak though.

[TrentFox]

6 minutes ago, Beechey said:

Yes, although you miss my point.

His assists are not flukes, they're "legitimate" assists.

He's not assisting in a manner whereby he just passes to someone else who does all the work and scores, for example. He's actively contributing in a positive way.

Yeah, but where’s the fun in acknowledging that? 🤣🤣🤣

[honeybradger]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

That might be reaching his peak though.

Players in their peak have a good mixture of experience and athletic ability. If he can kick on from this year and create 10+ big chances a season then he would be at his peak or reaching it as he's used his experience to propel him to the next level. I think he's going to need another season or two to gain the experience he needs to perform at his absolute best though but if he can do it next season that's fantastic, peak years arent age dependent as you can see with elite youngsters like sancho who play like they already have 5 years of experience.

[sacreblueits442]

4 hours ago, Koke said:

We need a top class wide man , and then Barnes/Perez can fight over the other spot. Its hard to carry 2 wingers/wide forwards who won't get 10 league goals. If we want consistent top 4 challenges, this position has to be top priority this current window.

..Barnes or Perez are not wide players!!!

  We are attempting to shoehorn players in the team in order to get them on the park.

  We have Barnes on the left but he is better central, we have Perez on the right but he is better centrally so if we introduce an out and out winger on the right, we need the same on the left. Barnes and Perez are not fighting for a position on the left, or right, neither are suited there.