Wolves Post Match 0-0

[The Bear]

9 hours ago, STUHILL said:

Do you often struggle against a target man? That was the only way I could see us scoring yesterday. Whipping crosses in to a big lump who could cause some problems for you. 

Occasionally yes. Mitrovic in particular used to give Coady a torrid time every time he faced him. But that was balls into him along the floor where he holds it up and spins away. Usually crosses in the air are well dealt with by Bennett/Boly or Coady. 

 

 

6 hours ago, jayfox26 said:

Maybe but I never saw them play like that at all last season so was still unusual. They ultimately  got what they came for. A 0-0 draw. I'd like to hope that we won't try playing for too many 0-0 draws this season. Even when we play the top teams we normally have a bit of a go. 

Not sure what you were watching then because that's how we always play, especially against the better teams. Low possession, quick counters, long diagonals, etc. Ok we usually are better on the ball and in possession but Sunday was a bit of an off day for us in that respect. Made it harder to keep the ball and forced us to be even more defensive at times. 

Edited 13 August 2019 by The Bear

[escape2victory]

6 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Ah man! Looking at that you do think what a chance. With Barnes though, really think he will be some player in 2-3 years and will get better and better as the season goes on. I can’t remember who was on here who said he didn’t have pace but that person is obviously clueless - he has it and it is his X factor. 

Agree with you & think Rodgers will make him better with decision making. That’s definitely the area of his game he needs to work on.

[Ric Flair]

9 hours ago, henrik_62 said:

There’d still be opportunity for Barnes, as Albrighton on the right to be quite honest now isn’t going to cut the mustard as a winger in a top 6 side.

 

Having real quality out on the right hand side and Albrighton as able back-up would probably take less burden off Barnes on the left and allow him to develop without too much expectation. 

 

Cant help but feel you’ve missed a trick with Sarr. Fact he went to Watford suggests he’d have been yours if you wanted him.

I have to agree with you there, it has been a weakness of ours now for 3 transfer windows. Always staggers me how long it takes clubs to rectify quite glaring weaknesses, we did the same when it was obvious we needed an attacking right back but didnt get one for 2 years and now we have one of the best in Europe. 

 

What surprises me about the lack of wingers is that Rodgers Celtic team seemed stacked with them or am I mistaken?

[norwichfox]

22 hours ago, Corky said:

Are we going to have "same as Puel" every time the performance isn't sparkling? Not every match under Puel was deathly boring, not every game under Rodgers will be thrill-a-minute.

Not quite the same as Puel...we beat Wolves at home 2-0 under Puel iirc. Most noticeable comparisons were the isolation of Vardy and the fact that we set up not to lose the game rather than going all out to win it.

 

Not much to enjoy despite the "impressive" possession figures. Most pleasing was Soyuncu's performance and partnership with Evans. Massive difference when Barnes and Albrighton came on, we surely must start Barnes against Chelsea.

 

Please no more 4-3-3 games with little effective wing play - I find it depressing to watch, yes, it will achieve an avoidance of being relegated but will be rewarded with no further progress up the league at the end of the season and our "star" players looking to move on.

 

Get it sorted Rodgers.

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, norwichfox said:

Not quite the same as Puel...we beat Wolves at home 2-0 under Puel iirc.

If we are being objective here, we were extremely fortunate to win that game under Puel. Wolves were by far the better team and we scored two goals which came off Wolves players into the goal. 

 

I am not saying that Sunday's performance was good but it was better than the Wolves home under Puel. 

Edited 13 August 2019 by Cardiff_Fox

[Arriba Los Zorros]

5 hours ago, The Bear said:

Not sure what you were watching then because that's how we always play, especially against the better teams. Low possession, quick counters, long diagonals, etc. Ok we usually are better on the ball and in possession but Sunday was a bit of an off day for us in that respect. Made it harder to keep the ball and forced us to be even more defensive at times. 

Winning football, but anti-football, TBH.

 

Sitting deep and playing on the counter is the modern equivalent of Wimbledon hoofball in the late 80s / early 90s. Awful to watch, a few quick breaks doesn't make up for the 90% of the time where your supporters have to watch 9 or 10 of your own players camped in your defensive third.

 

Worst thing is, we're one of the main trend setters for this dull style of play.......... Not that anybody in Leicester was complaining at the time!

 

The sooner a system is developed which will render the low block and counter attacking null and void, the better for football.

Edited 13 August 2019 by Arriba Los Zorros

[ARM1968]

22 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Winning football, but anti-football, TBH.

 

Sitting deep and playing on the counter is the modern equivalent of Wimbledon hoofball in the late 80s / early 90s. Awful to watch, a few quick breaks doesn't make up for the 90% of the time where your supporters have to watch 9 or 10 of your own players camped in your defensive third.

 

Worst thing is, we're one of the main trend setters for this dull style of play.......... Not that anybody in Leicester was complaining at the time!

 

The sooner a system is developed which will render the low block and counter attacking null and void, the better for football.

We pretty much set up that way at Man City last season and only a swinging worldview from kompany saved them. It is an effective, if somewhat boring approach. However we won the league doing it. Not sure there is a ‘system’ which can truly counter it. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

9 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

We pretty much set up that way at Man City last season and only a swinging worldview from kompany saved them. It is an effective, if somewhat boring approach. However we won the league doing it. Not sure there is a ‘system’ which can truly counter it. 

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see a renaissance in long ball, or physical target men, to be more effective in breaking through the massed ranks of a defensive wall. Maybe something like 2 big strikers up front, with 2 smaller AMs / nimble forwards to run off them, and playing without wingers.

 

If not that, which probably wouldn't work in reality, it will be something completely revolutionary and it will be developed to counter a seemingly unbeatable system that teams like Atletico Madrid, Juventus, ourselves a few years and Wolves play.

 

 

 

 

[Lionheart10]

Chilwell and Ricardo are not Full Backs.They just are not as effective they look like they have the brakes on,need them as Wing Backs bombing forward hope he brings Benkovic in to a back 3 and lose one of the defensive midfielders at Home at least.

[turtmcfly]

20 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

We pretty much set up that way at Man City last season and only a swinging worldview from kompany saved them. It is an effective, if somewhat boring approach. However we won the league doing it. Not sure there is a ‘system’ which can truly counter it. 

 

...and against them at home, when we won. Like we did four days earlier against Chelsea, doing exactly the same thing.

 

Strange that the best team the league has seen for years (ever?) packed with attacking talent and led by the best manager of his generation struggled against the tactic. You could almost argue that the continued moaning about failing to score against Wolves at the weekend is misplaced.

[ARM1968]

5 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

...and against them at home, when we won. Like we did four days earlier against Chelsea, doing exactly the same thing.

 

Strange that the best team the league has seen for years (ever?) packed with attacking talent and led by the best manager of his generation struggled against the tactic. You could almost argue that the continued moaning about failing to score against Wolves at the weekend is misplaced.

Agreed. If they struggled, and they did, what miraculous system would work against it?  Executed correctly and with a bit of luck thrown in it is lethal. Possession teams get drawn on in ever greater numbers to break the block - only then to be countered - in our title winning year, ruthlessly. 

[The Bear]

1 hour ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Winning football, but anti-football, TBH.

 

Sitting deep and playing on the counter is the modern equivalent of Wimbledon hoofball in the late 80s / early 90s. Awful to watch, a few quick breaks doesn't make up for the 90% of the time where your supporters have to watch 9 or 10 of your own players camped in your defensive third.

 

Worst thing is, we're one of the main trend setters for this dull style of play.......... Not that anybody in Leicester was complaining at the time!

 

The sooner a system is developed which will render the low block and counter attacking null and void, the better for football.

The way we do it isn't a "park the bus and hit and hope" style though. It's purely a means to an end for when the opponent has the ball. 3-5-2 becomes 5-3-2 without the ball, but when we get the ball it quickly morphs into 3-2-5 with both wing-backs pushing high up the pitch supporting the attack. The key phrase banded about when it was introduced was "5 in defence, 5 in attack". 

 

I get it might not be for everyone at first glance or face value but when you watch it regularly it's actually very fluid and adaptable as well as being extremely organised both with and without the ball. It's the reason Nuno is so well thought of at the minute. 

 

We still do play a possession based game against the lower teams, but as with us they are hard to break down because they defend deep and in numbers, albeit more narrow and with less space between the lines. 

 

We really need another good No.10 to help with that, who can carry the ball forwards and help break those lines. It's the one position Wolves fans were crying out for in the window. 

[CosbehFox]

I have said for months that Wolves play a deep lying style - however it's incredibly harsh to lump into some anti-football, just in the same way it was with us in 15/16 or the Man City game (there was actual idea there that we were trying to get Man City to push high up and expose the high line). 

 

Wolves expose most teams full-backs and the modern style of playing high up the pitch. You only have to look at the 4-3 game and see how Moutinho/Neves' passing ability punishes it. 

[justfoxes]

22 hours ago, Fox85 said:

He was on the bench wasnt he?

If he was on the bench he has been given clearance to play

Missed that then bloody hell cheers 👍

[Shane]

6 minutes ago, The Bear said:

The way we do it isn't a "park the bus and hit and hope" style though. It's purely a means to an end for when the opponent has the ball. 3-5-2 becomes 5-3-2 without the ball, but when we get the ball it quickly morphs into 3-2-5 with both wing-backs pushing high up the pitch supporting the attack. The key phrase banded about when it was introduced was "5 in defence, 5 in attack". 

 

I get it might not be for everyone at first glance or face value but when you watch it regularly it's actually very fluid and adaptable as well as being extremely organised both with and without the ball. It's the reason Nuno is so well thought of at the minute. 

 

We still do play a possession based game against the lower teams, but as with us they are hard to break down because they defend deep and in numbers, albeit more narrow and with less space between the lines. 

 

We really need another good No.10 to help with that, who can carry the ball forwards and help break those lines. It's the one position Wolves fans were crying out for in the window. 

I’m surprised so many are calling out Wolves tactics. As Leicester fans we should know best that this style is very effective. Also in my opinion it is entertaining & not ‘anti-football’ (as long as you actually counter attack, which you did). 

 

 

[turtmcfly]

Just now, ARM1968 said:

Agreed. If they struggled, and they did, what miraculous system would work against it?  Executed correctly and with a bit of luck thrown in it is lethal. Possession teams get drawn on in ever greater numbers to break the block - only then to be countered - in our title winning year, ruthlessly. 

 

Yes. 'Luck' which by another name could be called skill. In reality we generated what I'd expect an average (not poor) performance would do chance-wise against Wolves. We dragged a couple of decent shooting chances wide early on, Vardy, Evans and Perez all failed completely or partially to get a decisive touch from 3 yards out, Barnes could have pulled the ball across for Vardy instead of pushing the the by-line.

 

Hard (and stupid) to forget the nature of the 4-3 at the back end of last season when wondering whether to adopt a more attacking line-up and approach to the game. 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I have to agree with you there, it has been a weakness of ours now for 3 transfer windows. Always staggers me how long it takes clubs to rectify quite glaring weaknesses, we did the same when it was obvious we needed an attacking right back but didnt get one for 2 years and now we have one of the best in Europe. 

 

What surprises me about the lack of wingers is that Rodgers Celtic team seemed stacked with them or am I mistaken?

We have the exact same problem, we've needed a RB for two years and still don't have a natural one!  Somehow I doubt when we eventually sign one he'll be one of the best in Europe though lol!

 

Yeah your exactly right, we were and still are overloaded with wingers, central midfield players too.

Edited 13 August 2019 by henrik_62

[Dan LCFC]

Our fans slating their tactics is so painfully Spurs. Disappointing to read. Wolves had the better chances.

 

That said I don't quite buy that the counter attacking system is unbeatable. Man City and Liverpool haven't dropped any points since February. It's good but one error and the plan is dead.

[volpeazzurro]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I have to agree with you there, it has been a weakness of ours now for 3 transfer windows. Always staggers me how long it takes clubs to rectify quite glaring weaknesses, we did the same when it was obvious we needed an attacking right back but didnt get one for 2 years and now we have one of the best in Europe. 

 

What surprises me about the lack of wingers is that Rodgers Celtic team seemed stacked with them or am I mistaken?

We of course don't know whether the club did attempt to get a winger or not. The assumption always appears to be on here that because they haven't bought one, they don't realise our squads deficiencies or how to address them. I find it incredibly nieve of some of our posters that think that way, assume they know better than people whose professional job it is to work in this area.

 

Of course, they're not going to tell you if they've tried and not got a player and why. Similarly, they are not going to announce the reason why for instance, they don't fancy a particular player that certain posters on here rate. One thing for sure is, is they'll have better access to the facts and credible backgound information on such a player than some armchair supporter scanning YouTube clips and media reports. They will also way up risks and available finances. Then there are other factors regarding a players attitude and reputation that we may not know about,  why is it that nobody seemed interested in Ziyech for example? Could he be another potential Slimani in the dressing room if those rumours are to be believed. Sarr also, if we were ever interested in him may just not have fancied coming to Leicester City or, whilst some folk on here were in total awe of his goals on YouTube, a more professional eye may have seen a player not completely in control of the ball and an individual relying upon huge elements of good fortune and, having scouted him for quite a while, felt it unlikely that he could adapt. Who knows.

 

In conclusion, we just don't know what players our club looked at. Trust, confidentiality and reputation in certain business circles are of paramount importance and therefore the club aren't going to come out and acknowledge certain approaches as they will probably have to deal with and engage with certain agents, players and clubs again in the future. In the meantime, the standpoint of some that the club don't know what we need or what they are doing, is as I say, perhaps just a little nieve.

Edited 13 August 2019 by volpeazzurro

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Lionheart10 said:

Chilwell and Ricardo are not Full Backs.They just are not as effective they look like they have the brakes on,need them as Wing Backs bombing forward hope he brings Benkovic in to a back 3 and lose one of the defensive midfielders at Home at least.

Ricardo as a wing back is fine as he has end product, but Chilwell as a wing back still has the same issue of providing the square root of fcuk all going forward and us left begging the question on where the ammunition is going to come from on that side of the pitch?

 

I suppose we could play 3-4-3 with the attackers either side of Vardy giving support if needed but then we are adding in an extra centre half for the sake of a creative midfielder which isn't necessarily going to help us.

[Ric Flair]

36 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

We have the exact same problem, we've needed a RB for two years and still don't have a natural one!  Somehow I doubt when we eventually sign one he'll be one of the best in Europe though lol!

 

Yeah your exactly right, we were and still are overloaded with wingers, central midfield players too.

I noticed you had Ajer there at the weekend? I know he scored, but that's not ideal is it, especially given how dominant he is as a CB.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 hour ago, The Bear said:

The way we do it isn't a "park the bus and hit and hope" style though. It's purely a means to an end for when the opponent has the ball. 3-5-2 becomes 5-3-2 without the ball, but when we get the ball it quickly morphs into 3-2-5 with both wing-backs pushing high up the pitch supporting the attack. The key phrase banded about when it was introduced was "5 in defence, 5 in attack". 

 

I get it might not be for everyone at first glance or face value but when you watch it regularly it's actually very fluid and adaptable as well as being extremely organised both with and without the ball. It's the reason Nuno is so well thought of at the minute. 

 

We still do play a possession based game against the lower teams, but as with us they are hard to break down because they defend deep and in numbers, albeit more narrow and with less space between the lines. 

 

We really need another good No.10 to help with that, who can carry the ball forwards and help break those lines. It's the one position Wolves fans were crying out for in the window. 

Not having a go at Wolves here like others have suggested - you're right, it is done with purpose by Nuno and there is an offensive plan implemented to create and score goals too so it's different from 'let's keep it tight and see if we can nick a point or even 3'. He's undoubtedly a clever tactician and has got in the players to work this style well and now as you said the challenge is to figure out how to unlook teams that sit back against you.

 

But there's no denying the negativity of that approach, it's defensive and means your team have to sit deep and can't express themselves.

 

What people don't seem to appreciate is that there's a difference between an attacking counter attacking style a la Liverpool where the team presses all over the pitch, wins the ball back and breaks with speed,  and a defensive style keeping a couple of men up with everyone else camped back in the hope of sucking the opposition team forward and leaving yourselves with a 2 vs 2 with a ball over top or long through ball.

Edited 13 August 2019 by Arriba Los Zorros

[The Bear]

The opposite is true with possession for possession's sake. A lot of people got fed up with Barca/Spain's Tika-Taka style when it's endless pass after pass that just moves the ball around endlessly with not much penetration. I guess the key is finding a happy balance or at least an effective one, which is what Pep seems to have done at Man City. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 minutes ago, The Bear said:

The opposite is true with possession for possession's sake. A lot of people got fed up with Barca/Spain's Tika-Taka style when it's endless pass after pass that just moves the ball around endlessly with not much penetration. I guess the key is finding a happy balance or at least an effective one, which is what Pep seems to have done at Man City. 

Yes, amen to that. Tiki taka got awful towards the end and that became defensive possession. When any team start becoming indoctrinated to a certain approach without any tactical flexibility, that's when things get boring and you get figured out by others teams......

[jayfox26]

1 hour ago, ARM1968 said:

We pretty much set up that way at Man City last season and only a swinging worldview from kompany saved them. It is an effective, if somewhat boring approach. However we won the league doing it. Not sure there is a ‘system’ which can truly counter it. 

I totally understand why teams use it. Everyone uses it against the likes of Man City and Liverpool as not many teams can match them man for man. Bottom half teams use it against teams like us, as they also can't match us man for man. Wolves however are the same standard as us, so it was surprising to see them sit so deep and use this tactic. Considering they have great midfielders like Moutinho and Neves, I thought they were very dull and boring to watch on Sunday. Totally get why they'd do it at the Etihad or Anfield but not at the KP. I'd be pissed if we go to Molyneux and throw 11 men behind the ball. No issue with counter attacking and playing the odd direct ball (especially when we have Vardy) but when you play that way for 90 mins, it's very dull! 

Edited 13 August 2019 by jayfox26