The VAR thread

[5waller5]

2 minutes ago, Craig said:

I know, that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the perspective of it, and how the camera angle isn't always facing straight on. 

 

Today's is a joke as clearly it isn't placed at the correct point, but the Barnes one is not actually how it looks if you look at it as a flat image. 

 

Both should stand, mind. This isn't what offside is for.

I agree - they are both onside because there has to be a margin for error looking across a pitch and trying to be mm accurate over 30 metres, with a camera that’s not inline, and not enough frames / second to truly determine point of contact (and contact of ball on passing foot being long enough to be onside at the start of contact and offside by the end). 
 

Thats always going to be open to a level of interpretation and therefore potential bias. If it’s close enough to be level then advantage to goal scorer.

 

It’s outside the spirit of the game and not as accurate as they are pretending it is. 

[Ricey]

29 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Is right. 

 

Perspective or not, it literally shows the line not going through the armpit. If it does, Rashford is off. 

 

You are misunderstanding the law. “In line with the bottom of the armpit” so not through the armpit. The upper arm is included, therefore the line has been drawn in the right place on Faes.

 

The lines aren’t wrong, they aren’t drawn on by eye. The only debate is whether the right frame was chosen, which is why they should increase the margin of error in my opinion.

[Ricey]

Astounds me the people that moan about the angle being inconclusive. The lines are drawn by the tech and worked out by the pitch dimensions. The VAR just zooms in and pinpoints the right part of the attacker and defender.

[lcfc_forever]

28 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

The PGMOL said it wasn’t a red card because it wasn’t reckless or out of control. 
 

WTF, they’re making this up. 

[urban.spaceman]

19 minutes ago, lcfc_forever said:

The PGMOL said it wasn’t a red card because it wasn’t reckless or out of control. 
 

WTF, they’re making this up. 

Corruption.

[trabuch]

I just wish they would stop changing the ****ing rules every 5 minutes. 

[orangecity23]

31 minutes ago, Ricey said:

You are misunderstanding the law. “In line with the bottom of the armpit” so not through the armpit. The upper arm is included, therefore the line has been drawn in the right place on Faes.

 

The lines aren’t wrong, they aren’t drawn on by eye. The only debate is whether the right frame was chosen, which is why they should increase the margin of error in my opinion.

As usual, the FA writes its laws in a vague and unclear way. When they state "in line with the bottom of the armpit", they aren't stating whether the vertical axis is in line with the bottom the armpit, or the horizontal axis is in line with the bottom of the armpit. For handball, they are talking horizontal axis - hence T-shirt line. For offside though, the below would suggest they mean vertical... why can't they be a bit more bloody clear on their wording? Would a pissing diagram be too much to ask? The rules are full of vague fuzzy wording like that that leads to inconsistencies in decision making - "deliberate handball", "reckless force", "unnatural position", "interferring with play", "clear and obvious error" etc etc etc.

 

 

[Super_horns]

26 minutes ago, lcfc_forever said:

The PGMOL said it wasn’t a red card because it wasn’t reckless or out of control. 
 

WTF, they’re making this up. 

Well not many people have that foot very high whilst not really looking if they are in “control”..

[trabuch]

I mean - I think Rashford's goal should be allowed - but it was inconsistent.  VAR has contributed the square route of **** all to the game. All it achieves is spoiling the live experience.

[turtmcfly]

11 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Corruption.

 

As you said in the match thread, half a dozen times.

 

Please explain it. Who controls it? Which clubs are involved? Who pays whom? Are all the officials in on it? 

[HybridFox]

1 hour ago, lcfc_forever said:

The PGMOL said it wasn’t a red card because it wasn’t reckless or out of control. 
 

WTF, they’re making this up. 

Remember when Ederson clattering into Barnes was "inevitable contact" and De Bruyne was just "protecting his face" with his hands? 

 

Move the goalposts when it suits them

[urban.spaceman]

52 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

As you said in the match thread, half a dozen times.

 

Please explain it. Who controls it? Which clubs are involved? Who pays whom? Are all the officials in on it? 

Corruption!

[Babylon]

5 hours ago, dfs said:

As far as I can see it's just you insisting var offside decisions are flawless because of "perspective". If anyone can show me evidence that Dier's shoulder or Davies' head aren't beyond Barnes' toe for the goal last week, then fair enough, but it certainly doesn't look that way to me. It looks more like they make up where to draw the line as they go along, so why not provide fuller explanation to the fans? 

 

“Just me insisting”… well firstly I didn’t say it was flawless. Secondly, yes I’m insisting they were correctly last week as using the exact way they measure position shows it to be correct. 
 

Saying “it looks that way”, clearly shows that you don’t know how var works and don’t understand perspective. So, perhaps read the posts. Or, failing that go off and do a bit of research if you don’t believe me and then come back with an informed opinion.

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Ricey said:

Astounds me the people that moan about the angle being inconclusive. The lines are drawn by the tech and worked out by the pitch dimensions. The VAR just zooms in and pinpoints the right part of the attacker and defender.

It’s truly painful.

[Staff]

6 hours ago, lcfc_forever said:

The PGMOL said it wasn’t a red card because it wasn’t reckless or out of control. 
 

WTF, they’re making this up. 

Sabitzer was pretending to be Jackie Chan, how is it not reckless feckin jokers 

[dfs]

5 hours ago, Babylon said:

 

“Just me insisting”… well firstly I didn’t say it was flawless. Secondly, yes I’m insisting they were correctly last week as using the exact way they measure position shows it to be correct. 
 

Saying “it looks that way”, clearly shows that you don’t know how var works and don’t understand perspective. So, perhaps read the posts. Or, failing that go off and do a bit of research if you don’t believe me and then come back with an informed opinion.

I'm not sure what that screenshot is supposed to show, and frankly I'm not about to go and research anything, I have better things to do 😂 Anyway, my point is not so much that the decisions are wrong, but that they appear (to the naked eye, with the given angles) to be wrong. As people have said up thread, this could maybe be resolved by increasing the margin of error or providing better camera angles. I don't think the onus should be on fans to research perspective and var technology in order to feel that they have been fairly treated. 

[smudger63]

8 hours ago, lcfc_forever said:

The PGMOL said it wasn’t a red card because it wasn’t reckless or out of control. 
 

WTF, they’re making this up. 

They are right it, wasn't out of control, he knew exactly what he was doing. He wasnt even interested in playing the ball. That was why it should have been a red card.

[Babylon]

44 minutes ago, dfs said:

I'm not sure what that screenshot is supposed to show, and frankly I'm not about to go and research anything, I have better things to do 😂 Anyway, my point is not so much that the decisions are wrong, but that they appear (to the naked eye, with the given angles) to be wrong. As people have said up thread, this could maybe be resolved by increasing the margin of error or providing better camera angles. I don't think the onus should be on fans to research perspective and var technology in order to feel that they have been fairly treated. 

I’m more than happy to have a discussion about tolerance or whether such fine margins should count, I’d agree. But in the rules at the moment, used for all, the two decisions are correct.

[Le Renard]

We all know since the 2021/22 season VAR has been used sparingly in order to let the game flow.  The offside decisions can be endlessly debated, but generally 99% of the time VAR gets it right.  For me, the concern is letting bad tackles go unpunished like the Sabitzer one on Waes, a straight red, and the two Perisic tackles in 2 minutes against West Ham, which were two yellows.  This just smacks of plain incompetence from the VAR official, the ref, and the assistants on the field of play.  It is as if no one wants to make decisions anymore, the ref doesn't seem to want to blow the whistle and VAR doesn't seem to want to intervene, because it wasn't deemed a clear and obvious error! 

 

The rules and guidelines need to be looked at again and maybe tightened up a bit, get the Ref to occasionally go over to the monitor and have a look, for a change, and actually use the bloody thing.  Perhaps you need to be Arsenal or one of the other so-called big six, to get any traction from the PGMOL, imagine if an Arsenal player was injured and a leg was broken and it went unpunished, they would go all Arteta on the PGMOL/VAR.  They would soon listen then, and bend over and take one, the guidelines would change pretty quickly.  I'm afraid it will probably take a high-profile player to get his leg broken, then there will be a clamour for a rule change, led by the tabloids.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

It's easier just to accept the league is corrupt and this was introduced to protect certain clubs. The game's long gone.

[dfs]

28 minutes ago, Babylon said:

 the two decisions are correct.

I'll take your word for it 😉

[Ricey]

8 hours ago, orangecity23 said:

As usual, the FA writes its laws in a vague and unclear way. When they state "in line with the bottom of the armpit", they aren't stating whether the vertical axis is in line with the bottom the armpit, or the horizontal axis is in line with the bottom of the armpit. For handball, they are talking horizontal axis - hence T-shirt line. For offside though, the below would suggest they mean vertical... why can't they be a bit more bloody clear on their wording? Would a pissing diagram be too much to ask? The rules are full of vague fuzzy wording like that that leads to inconsistencies in decision making - "deliberate handball", "reckless force", "unnatural position", "interferring with play", "clear and obvious error" etc etc etc.

 

 

For a start the last one is the through the armpit of the attacking player. It’s the Saudi Arabia defender behind that the line is being drawn from.

 

None the others are being drawn from the armpit either. I’m not saying they are all 100% accurate, as it’s hard to tell from the thicker lines they use for broadcast, but they are being drawn from the t-shirt line. The difference is that Faes has his arm down so the line is drawn from the side of his arm, whereas as with the others their arms are up or they are leaning, so the line goes through the arm.

[fox_up_north]

The Rashford goal - fine, whatever. I think you have to account for margins and if we get into nitty gritty of if a player's armpit was offside the  you're being daft.

 

If the refs want to be taken seriously and respected, then several things need to happen:

 

1. Mic them up so we can hear the abuse they take

2. Yellow for anyone other than captain approaching the ref and shouting

3. Refs release their game decision report

4. We all accept a degree of error and use VAR to limit it

 

[Lad1966]

I think football should take a leaf out of cricket decision making process, i.e. if the in game official make a judgement, VAR  can only override it if there is clear mistake, not 50/50 like it was for Rashford’s 2nd goal. In that way, the official still have control and more importantly responsibility. The lineman flagged for the 2nd goal and there was enough doubt not to give that goal!

[AKCJ]

10 hours ago, Ricey said:

Astounds me the people that moan about the angle being inconclusive. The lines are drawn by the tech and worked out by the pitch dimensions. The VAR just zooms in and pinpoints the right part of the attacker and defender.

It's zoomed in and pinpointed on Faes' elbow. That's the problem.