The VAR thread

[st albans fox]

3 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

Someone needs to make a petition for every premier league team and fans to boycott all games vs Liverpool until there is an investigation into their dealings with the FA, referees and VAR. How can they get so many awful decisions go there way all the time

You mean like mane’s and firmino disallowed offside goals v villa and Watford 

 

Liverpool like all the big teams get the 50/50 pen calls and once the call is made it needs to be a glaring error for it to be reversed ....VAR simply won’t correct the natural big club bias that refs suffer from ...... human nature ....it’s not deliberate .......

[Rigga]

Referees... Dermot Dickhead is half the reason people can’t get to grips with VAR.

He says no way was TAA a penalty when it was the most blatant handball Pen of the season then says Soyuncu was .

Tbh, they both were, but to have a ref, ex ref etc say one was and one wasn’t.. It’s no wonder no one has a clue from game to game what the rules are..

 

The ex pros that appear alongside get as frustrated as fans watching when he does his stupid ref watch.

 

perfect example of referees not knowing the game in any capacity..

Why sky bother with him and line his pockets I have no idea.

[Phube]

5 hours ago, st albans fox said:

You mean like mane’s and firmino disallowed offside goals v villa and Watford 

 

TBF they are the black and white decisions, it’s the subjective decisions they seem to get 100% of the time!

[twister]

VAR I am convinced was brought in to manipulate the game according the way the people in power want it

 

if you want evidence of that look at the nfl week in week tv replays decide games.

 

I hated it from the start and I still despise it as its open to corruption.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, twister said:

VAR I am convinced was brought in to manipulate the game according the way the people in power want it

 

if you want evidence of that look at the nfl week in week tv replays decide games.

 

I hated it from the start and I still despise it as its open to corruption.

I agree with the bold bit (I hated it before it arrived) but not with the conspiracy stuff 

[Blue-fox]

VAR has made zero difference to football apart from frustrating the fans that attend the games. You cannot celebrate a goal properly anymore, or you’re waiting for 5 minutes for a decision on a dubious decision. Some go for you and some go against you, as it did before VAR was introduced with normal refereeing error. Should be scrapped at the end of the season but unfortunately it won’t be and it’s at the expense of the game. 

[Phube]

1 minute ago, Blue-fox said:

VAR has made zero difference to football apart from frustrating the fans that attend the games. You cannot celebrate a goal properly anymore, or you’re waiting for 5 minutes for a decision on a dubious decision. Some go for you and some go against you, as it did before VAR was introduced with normal refereeing error. Should be scrapped at the end of the season but unfortunately it won’t be and it’s at the expense of the game. 

Not true, not one offside goal has been scored this season! Which is progress. The rest needs work.

I bet Rangers fans would have loved VAR in their Cup final!

[Blue-fox]

Just now, Phube said:

Not true, not one offside goal has been scored this season! Which is progress. The rest needs work.

I bet Rangers fans would have loved VAR in their Cup final!

That is true, however how a player can be offside by an armpit for example is beyond me. 

[Super_horns]

With penalties you'll soon have anyone too scared to touch someone and even move towards the area when it's being taken!

[red5]

5 minutes ago, Blue-fox said:

VAR has made zero difference to football apart from frustrating the fans that attend the games. You cannot celebrate a goal properly anymore, or you’re waiting for 5 minutes for a decision on a dubious decision. Some go for you and some go against you, as it did before VAR was introduced with normal refereeing error. Should be scrapped at the end of the season but unfortunately it won’t be and it’s at the expense of the game. 

Reading the comments on this thread it's clear VAR is for the enjoyment of people watching on tv, the fans at the match don't matter.

[Phube]

1 minute ago, Blue-fox said:

That is true, however how a player can be offside by an armpit for example is beyond me. 

They're the rules of offside. The only way it won’t be is if they change the wording of the rules.

 

I would prefer to use standing foot for offside, but still it’s the same for everyone.

[Blue-fox]

Just now, red5 said:

Reading the comments on this thread it's clear VAR is for the enjoyment of people watching on tv, the fans at the match don't matter.

I’ve watched some of the games this season on tv/ streams and I can say for me it’s still ruined it. It’s just not the same game anymore

[KrefelderFox666]

31 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

With penalties you'll soon have anyone too scared to touch someone and even move towards the area when it's being taken!

The latter is good and how it should be. Some players may as well clear the ball off the penalty spot they have encroached so far. At some point players will get it and wait that extra second or two

[Super_horns]

True so long as its consistent.

[UniFox21]

3 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

True so long as its consistent.

And consistent is something it isn't 

[dayday]

Marginal offside calls in The Sun

 

Ayoze Perez is clearly offside before Wilfred Ndidi converts a rebound for the Foxes, while a Serge Aurier goal is disallowed for a fractional call on Son Heung-Min

 

Did I miss something?

[Facecloth]

28 minutes ago, dayday said:

Marginal offside calls in The Sun

 

Ayoze Perez is clearly offside before Wilfred Ndidi converts a rebound for the Foxes, while a Serge Aurier goal is disallowed for a fractional call on Son Heung-Min

 

Did I miss something?

Clearly you did. That summary is spot on. Perez was clearly offside for the Ndidi goal, whereas Son was mm off for the Aurier goal.

[dayday]

9 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Clearly you did. That summary is spot on. Perez was clearly offside for the Ndidi goal, whereas Son was mm off for the Aurier goal.

I thought Ricardo and Maddison scored

[Facecloth]

20 minutes ago, dayday said:

I thought Ricardo and Maddison scored

They did. Ndidi had a goal ruled out.

[HybridFox]

Had a United fan trying to convince me of an article he read in The Times saying there's a stat they are 7 points worse off due to VAR decisions which wouldn't have happened without it. Whereas Leicester have supposedly benefited. 

 

Well that's not how it works is it when the outcome of the rest of the match would have changed as well so that's an irrelevant stat. Not the brightest bunch some people

[oxford blue]

2 hours ago, TK95 said:

Had a United fan trying to convince me of an article he read in The Times saying there's a stat they are 7 points worse off due to VAR decisions which wouldn't have happened without it. Whereas Leicester have supposedly benefited. 

 

Well that's not how it works is it when the outcome of the rest of the match would have changed as well so that's an irrelevant stat. Not the brightest bunch some people

Yes, the article in the Times does attempt to show to a league table without VAR. Whilst I agree it is impossible to say how the game would have finished, it is still an interesting table to look at. (I don't have subscription so can't post link.) Both City and Liverpool would drop 5 points, with Man City increasing by 3 and going to 2nd, 6 points behind L'pool. (Man Utd would be 1 point worse off and drop to 7th,)

 

The biggest beneficiaries have been Tottenham - 6 points better off - and Wolves have been hardest hit - 7 points worse off.

[Kitchandro]

Surely the offside issue could be solved in 2 very obvious, very straightforward steps:

 

1) Improve the technology and the quality of the images that the VARs are looking at. Currently they are using pixelated images, taken from a diagonal rather than vertical angle, with thick lines that are drawn with what I can only assume is Microsoft Paint. The reason hawk-eye and goal-line technology work is because they're not using methods from the dark ages. If they at the very least had HD images taken from the correct angle it would make it far easier to make the correct decision. If they used a system like hawk-eye it could be almost instantaneous so that it wouldn't ruin the celebrations if it was a legitimate goal. One of the problems for me is I'm not convinced that several of these VAR offside decisions has been correct. There have been some where they've freezed the image after the ball has been kicked and drawn the line on the wrong part of the defenders body.

 

2) Change the offside rule so that the whole of the attackers body has to be in an offside position in order to be offside - not just any part of the body that can play the ball. This is what Souness said the other day and, unbelievably considering it's him, he's spot on. The rule should favour the attacker. Fans would be able to accept it more readily if goals were disallowed when most of players body was offside - even if the decision was wrong. 

 

The rest of VAR needs to be scrapped because every other decision is subjective and therefore it will always be too inconsistent and too open to corruption. But the offside thing could still work if they had some common sense. I can't believe how much money is in this game and they are still using technology that is so out of date and enforcing such nonsensical rules.

[jammie82uk]

It seems the guy in charge at IFAB is not happy with how the premier league is doing offsides

 

For me The easiest way to solve offsides is the idea of getting rid of the lines and just checking if the player is clearly offside 

if you can’t tell then then they are onside and gets benefit of doubt like the rules already say the attacker should do   

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-could-stripped-var-21196526.amp

“Clear and obvious still remains - it's an important principle. There should not be a lot of time spent to find something marginal," Brud told the PA news agency.

"If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand," he said.

"If something is not clear on the first sight, then it's not obvious and it shouldn't be considered. Looking at one camera angle is one thing but looking at 15, trying to find something that was potentially not even there, this was not the idea of the VAR principle. It should be clear and obvious.

"What we really need to stress is that clear and obvious applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee," he added.

"In theory one millimetre offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand.

 

“This is the problem, people are trying to be too forensic. We are not looking to make a better decision, we are trying to get rid of the clear and obvious mistakes.

 

"If video evidence shows that a player was in an offside position, he was offside full stop. If it's not obvious, then the decision cannot be changed, you stay with the original decision.

Edited 1 January 2020 by jammie82uk

[Kopfkino]

9 hours ago, Kitchandro said:

1) Improve the technology and the quality of the images that the VARs are looking at. Currently they are using pixelated images, taken from a diagonal rather than vertical angle, with thick lines that are drawn with what I can only assume is Microsoft Paint. The reason hawk-eye and goal-line technology work is because they're not using methods from the dark ages. If they at the very least had HD images taken from the correct angle it would make it far easier to make the correct decision. If they used a system like hawk-eye it could be almost instantaneous so that it wouldn't ruin the celebrations if it was a legitimate goal. One of the problems for me is I'm not convinced that several of these VAR offside decisions has been correct. There have been some where they've freezed the image after the ball has been kicked and drawn the line on the wrong part of the defenders body.

Most of that is already addressed, it's just your ignorance of VAR. Before the start of the season Hawkeye calibrated all the pitches in the PL to create a 3D model and then calibrates the cameras to that model before every game meaning the camera angle is irrelevant. The cross-hair lines that offsides are worked out with are one pixel thick, the lines you see are deliberately thick for broadcast purposes, that's not how the offsides are worked out, whilst they do use 4K imaging but it is admitted the image quality isn't sufficient for 100% accuracy. I've not yet seen one drawn from the wrong part of the body and the Bundesliga addressed the point about frames a few weeks ago because they looked at decisions using the frame either side of the one chosen and found the difference was negligible. 

[trabuch]

As it stands VAR is utter bollocks. I hate it. Football wouldn't get billions from TV if there was no one watching it in the stadium. It isn't a TV program. The fans in the stadium make football the game that I love, and they are being ****ed over.