The VAR thread

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Vlad the Fox said:

It can do one. I barely celebrated vardy's goal as I thought it'd be disallowed, it's the third time this season I've not instinctively celebrated.  When I heard other people say this earlier in the season I thought what bollocks, how can you not, instinct will take over.

 

Unfortunately Var is killing that instinct, I think stats show that refs get about 95% right before var, we're going through all this cost and disruption to the game for what? another 2/3%. 

 

Will anyone in authority consider asking what the match going fans think? It's them that it's spoils the entertainment for the most. Or has with the tv schedule addres we at the bottom of the list when it comes to consideration. 

Was predicted .......

 

thing is, jonnys header wasn’t flagged off

 

IFAB say that var should only be used for a clear error on offside  .... that was about 18 inches ... is that a clear error ??  serious question .... my view is that it should have been disallowed but you can see how even changing the current PL way of using var on offside will still cause plenty of problems 

[Ian Nacho]

It's starting to ruin it for me now. Football about emotion and you don't know whether something is going to happen or not. You think oh sh*t we've conceded a pen, then it's overturned. You never know whether to celebrate a goal or not. Constant intervals in play remove any sort of passion. For the sake of a few dodgy decisions, I'd get rid just to have that emotion back.

[dsr-burnley]

On 02/01/2020 at 13:47, Jimbo said:

The only ways I can think of to improve VAR with offside decisions will only create the same arguments.

Either the offside rule is changed and there has to be clear daylight between defender and attacker or we adopt a similar approach to the cricket and if it's too close to call we stick with on field decisions.

 

But if we change the rule to a clear daylight rule then we'll have the same problems but in reverse where an attacker can be onside by half an inch instead of offside by a nose hair and if we adopt a similar approach to the cricket where we stick to Enfield decisions then we'll have goals given in one game but disallowed in another for exactly the same scenarios 

 

Therefore neither would actually improve the system we have now. Even taking VAR out of the equation will lead to the old problems we had. Not using it for offside decisions will result in age old arguments, take Man City at the weekend, their disallowed goal, correctly ruled out for offside yesterday, would have been given and the argument would have been to use VAR, but you can't use it for some and not others. It's either used or it's not and unfortunately I think its here to stay.

They have already changed the rule.  That's the problem.

 

Thirty years ago, the offside rule was changed to allow a forward who was level with the second-last defender, to be offside.  This was explicitly stated to be with the purpose of allowing more goals, and it was also explicitly stated in guidance to referees that if a player looked level to the normal human eye, then he was level.  There was no need to go to the nth degree,

 

The new rule eliminates level.  According to the new rule for VAR games, a player cannot be level so the idea of being onside when level ceases to exist.

 

Last year, Vardy would have been level, so the goal would have been legitimately given.  If VAR had been used using last year's rule, the Vardy would still have been level and the goal would have been given after a cursory check - no more than 15 seconds, probably less.

 

Under this year's ruiles, the goal was disallowed.  This is deliberate policy by the VAR administrators.  They think the game is better because the goal was disallowed.  The people administering VAR should be sacked and replaced by football people; people with common sense; people who actually like the game.  

[st albans fox]

21 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

They have already changed the rule.  That's the problem.

 

Thirty years ago, the offside rule was changed to allow a forward who was level with the second-last defender, to be offside.  This was explicitly stated to be with the purpose of allowing more goals, and it was also explicitly stated in guidance to referees that if a player looked level to the normal human eye, then he was level.  There was no need to go to the nth degree,

 

The new rule eliminates level.  According to the new rule for VAR games, a player cannot be level so the idea of being onside when level ceases to exist.

 

Last year, Vardy would have been level, so the goal would have been legitimately given.  If VAR had been used using last year's rule, the Vardy would still have been level and the goal would have been given after a cursory check - no more than 15 seconds, probably less.

 

Under this year's ruiles, the goal was disallowed.  This is deliberate policy by the VAR administrators.  They think the game is better because the goal was disallowed.  The people administering VAR should be sacked and replaced by football people; people with common sense; people who actually like the game.  

The lino flagged vardy off so he wouldn’t have been ‘level’ ...... 

[Phube]

All VAR decisions were spot on today... sadly for us. 

I don’t understand the ‘I can’t celebrate a goal any more’ argument, it has always been that way for me anyway. Score goal-celebrate-look at linesman-continue celebrating or get gutted! Surely everyone here has properly celebrated a goal only for the Lino to raise their flag or pause to make sure assuming they’d flag it!?

[Kopfkino]

2 minutes ago, Phube said:

All VAR decisions were spot on today... sadly for us. 

I don’t understand the ‘I can’t celebrate a goal any more’ argument, it has always been that way for me anyway. Score goal-celebrate-look at linesman-continue celebrating or get gutted! Surely everyone here has properly celebrated a goal only for the Lino to raise their flag or pause to make sure assuming they’d flag it!?

The linos flag goes up within a couple of seconds so you know if you don't see one straight the way there's no issue. If the flags not up you know you can celebrate and it's all within a matter of seconds that you get the feedback. Most of the time you've already instinctively checked anyway. 

 

Now it doesn't matter what you see, you go through the whole celebration process, you even reset the game and then you're told its offside,except you don't go through the process because all the way through you're waiting for a toenail to be given offside. The Evans one highlights it, yeah it was so clearly the right decision, but you couldn't celebrate what would have been a goal without VAR cos VAR was there waiting to chalk it off. Albeit I only watched it on stream, but even so I'd normally let out a yes, but I was just waiting for Vardy to be given offside. 

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, Phube said:

All VAR decisions were spot on today... sadly for us. 

I don’t understand the ‘I can’t celebrate a goal any more’ argument, it has always been that way for me anyway. Score goal-celebrate-look at linesman-continue celebrating or get gutted! Surely everyone here has properly celebrated a goal only for the Lino to raise their flag or pause to make sure assuming they’d flag it!?

That’s not a problem cos the lino decision is instant .....if the var decision was within five seconds no one would have an issue.  I wasn’t really celebrating praets goal cos I thought vards had gone too early and it would be pulled back. in the past the lino doesn’t flag so it doesn’t matter what I think - it’s a goal. I certainly, didn’t celebrate Evans goal because I thought we had broken the line early. And the other two goals were flagged by the lino so nothing to celebrate as immediate look across for the raised flag. 

[Vlad the Fox]

20 minutes ago, Phube said:

All VAR decisions were spot on today... sadly for us. 

I don’t understand the ‘I can’t celebrate a goal any more’ argument, it has always been that way for me anyway. Score goal-celebrate-look at linesman-continue celebrating or get gutted! Surely everyone here has properly celebrated a goal only for the Lino to raise their flag or pause to make sure assuming they’d flag it!?

The problem is, looking at the Lino is pretty instant. In the past if a goal looked offside I’d quickly look at the Lino see him running to the centre and celebrate, it’s all instantaneous. Our first goal today, looked close, never felt like celebrating, it’s not a choice not to celebrate, I just didn’t feel it. I hate it, I never thought I’d feel like that, even before the season when I was for VAR. It saddens me greatly. 

Edited 11 January 2020 by Vlad the Fox

[jammie82uk]

I was all for VAR at the start of the season but It’s the offside one that’s really annoys me, it was never meant to be a forensic examination, IFAB have stated in the VAR protocol that offsides should only be overturned if it is ‘clear & obvious’ which is clearly not how the premier league have decided to operate it 

 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

I was all for VAR at the start of the season but It’s the offside one that’s really annoys me, it was never meant to be a forensic examination, IFAB have stated in the VAR protocol that offsides should only be overturned if it is ‘clear & obvious’ which is clearly not how the premier league have decided to operate it 

 

Totally agree -  how do you define clear and obvious though ?  Presumably Evans header today is a clear and obvious error ? Or perhaps not ..... in some games that will be overturned, some not .....then you have inconsistencies ......

 

I think PGMOL decided on the forensic lines to avoid any grey areas but they’ve delivered other ‘issues’ 

Edited 11 January 2020 by st albans fox

[ithuriel]

Have to agree VAR is turning the game into a pantomime, YES!! er no? er maybe, er Yes!! 

You get to the point where you cant really celebrate and it dilutes the emotions you feel.

Edited 11 January 2020 by ithuriel

[Blue-fox]

The clear and obvious should be daylight between the defender and striker for offsides. That to me is a clear error. 
 

the handball rule should be deliberate action moving towards stopping the ball or in an unnatural position IE over the head etc. 
 

Personally I would scrap the whole thing however. 

[jammie82uk]

35 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Totally agree -  how do you define clear and obvious though ?  Presumably Evans header today is a clear and obvious error ? Or perhaps not ..... in some games that will be overturned, some not .....then you have inconsistencies ......

 

I think PGMOL decided on the forensic lines to avoid any grey areas but they’ve delivered other ‘issues’ 

I think get rid of the lines and only look at a couple of camera angles Maximum instead of the silly amount we have now 

when Games are on tv and replays are shown to the public not just this season but in the past as well you can usually tell straight away if a player is onside or not 

if it’s that close and you can’t tell immediately in a couple of replays then what ever the decision was on the field stays 

Edited 11 January 2020 by jammie82uk

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

I think get rid of the lines and only look at a couple of camera angles Maximum instead of the silly amount we have now 

when Games are on tv and replays are shown to the public not just this season but in the past as well you can usually tell straight away if a player is onside or not 

if it’s that close and you can’t tell immediately in a couple of replays then what ever the decision was on the field stays 

So from today, their pen stands as offside was tight and our Evans goal is still ruled out by var .......the other non goals were flagged off 

[whetstonefox]

To be honest I was half hearted when Evans scored as it looked offside, I was sat pretty much in line, was only hoping he was just on while a few others weee clearly off. 

[jammie82uk]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

So from today, their pen stands as offside was tight and our Evans goal is still ruled out by var .......the other non goals were flagged off 

Yes it wouldn’t have worked to our advantage today but I personally feel that fans would be able to understand it more then what we currently have and time scales would/should be a lot shorter then what we currently have 

[Stinkenzo]

Sick of the moaning about it now, just bin it off. It makes correct decisions (only most of the time, admittedly), yet a good 75% of every fanbase is blind when it goes and rescues their side and the same people call it a heap of shit when decisions go against them. I still can't get my head around people preferring the scenario of a goal that shouldn't stand being allowed because of fans having to uncelebrate a goal rather than the right decision ultimately being made

 

But if it does get scrapped then any manager or player that even hints of a refereeing decision going against his side should be given a life ban from the sport

Edited 11 January 2020 by Walkers

[Guest bennytwohats]

I get all the bad feelings in this thread, but I find it disheartening that people are conflating the VAR technology with the way it's been implemented and the rules that are in effect this year. Current iteration of it clearly isn't working, but there is nothing about the VAR technology that is inherently bad.

[lcfcsnow]

Do other clubs have the PA man talking fans through every moment? It's incredibly annoying, especially when he pops up with VAR complete 10-15 seconds later when the match has continued.

[StanSP]

8 hours ago, lcfcsnow said:

Do other clubs have the PA man talking fans through every moment? It's incredibly annoying, especially when he pops up with VAR complete 10-15 seconds later when the match has continued.

Yep. 

[Spudulike]

12 hours ago, st albans fox said:

That’s not a problem cos the lino decision is instant .....if the var decision was within five seconds no one would have an issue.  I wasn’t really celebrating praets goal cos I thought vards had gone too early and it would be pulled back. in the past the lino doesn’t flag so it doesn’t matter what I think - it’s a goal. I certainly, didn’t celebrate Evans goal because I thought we had broken the line early. And the other two goals were flagged by the lino so nothing to celebrate as immediate look across for the raised flag. 

The lino's flag doesn't mean anything now as we witnessed in the Everton match. 

[st albans fox]

6 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The lino's flag doesn't mean anything now as we witnessed in the Everton match. 

That’s in the reverse situation. Lino’s incorrectly flagging for offside and the goal later being awarded happens much less than the other way around 
 

the old way was always - goal, glance at lino as you begin jumping around, no flag - keep jumping around 

 

now it’s ..... well I’m not sure what it is ....

[woollett the bullet]

Naive question ,

did Cags' yellow card stand for the penalty offence although it wasn't given due to offside ?

10 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

 

Edited 12 January 2020 by woollett the bullet
Fat fingers

[foxinsocks]

11 hours ago, bennytwohats said:

I get all the bad feelings in this thread, but I find it disheartening that people are conflating the VAR technology with the way it's been implemented and the rules that are in effect this year. Current iteration of it clearly isn't working, but there is nothing about the VAR technology that is inherently bad.

I liked it better when we just went with ref's decision and then watched MOTD to see if he was a plonker or not

Edited 12 January 2020 by foxinsocks

[Aus Fox]

22 minutes ago, woollett the bullet said:

Naive question ,

did Cags' yellow card stand for the penalty offence although it wasn't given due to offside ?

 

No, it was rescinded as it took place after the initial offence.