The VAR thread

[Stadt]

The Ben Mee one was a joke the other week, didn't even get reviewed.

 

The stupid shit handball law got changed to make it 'consistent' for VAR. I hate it. Against West Ham there was mild celebrations because for absolutely no reason at all we all thought it'd get ruled out. At what cost do the rules are rules brigade want to improve the amount of correct decisions by? Yeah it's annoying when we concede a goal that shouldn't have stood but I'd rather that being unsure about celebrating goals anymore.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, urban fox said:

Have said all along that the VAR panel should be independent of the refs. A panel of experts, maybe including retired match officials and players/coaches etc. Obviously there would need to be training given but it would eliminate conspiracy theories and old boys networking etc.  All referees have to submit a match report and this should (if not already) apply to VAR officials and these reports should be made public, or at least an explanation of the rational behind decisions made. There will always be divided opinion and people unhappy that decisions have gone against their team but at least there would be clarity and also maybe a better understanding of the rules and interpretation by the watching public.

It is imperative that at the end of the season, every VAR decision is reviewed by a panel and those making the decisions called to explain why they gave what they did. Yes it is still subjective but we could then perhaps understand why Soyuncu's for example was given handball and Tuesdays not, and why Vardy's yellow for diving was upheld when he clearly had his foot trodden on yet Mane is given a pen when the side of his foot brushes Albrighton's boot. (I could cite decisions equally that have gone the other way). Until this happens the cries of fix and favouritism will not go away. VAR has to grow a pair and start overturning on-field decisions when clearly in error, rather than simply siding with the refs.

the issue is more about the on field decision and less about the VAR.  mane was given and vardy wasn't - that just happens - different refs have different views.  but neither on field decision was considered wrong enough to be a clear and obvious error and therefore subject to an overturn by the VAR - correct imo (although frustrating for us)

 

Tuesdays handball is simply on another level - it is a clear and obvious error. irrespective of what dean tells mason he has seen, mason should be telling dean that he simply has to go to the screen if he wont accept mason's guidance to give the pen. this assumes mason has told dean it is a pen - i cannot think that he thought anything different. only villa fans have argued it wasn't.  i have mused that because they took time to review the second handball first (which wasn't), they had already stopped the game for too long and didn't want to carry on the stoppage to correctly take sufficient time to review the actual handball.  its a screw up and they should have the balls to come out and admit it !!!!!!!

[Always Next Year]

Maddison and now Rodgers have both made it public that they can’t see how the handball was missed by the Ref and VAR and would like an explanation.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the FA will come up with some cock and bull excuse and then slap a fine on them both for speaking out about the incident .

[Ian Nacho]

12 hours ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

For the record I think this is a handball (although probably a harsh call)...

 

But if you're calling that you need to call this...

 

 

And whilst we're at it, this...

 

 

Where's the ****ing consistency?!

 

Since when was Wilf's hair like that

 

[Jonezy]

Just saw Hamburg SV-Nürnberg on the telly. Nürnberg with a similar handball to the Villa one; ref called to the monitor; watched once or twice and then gave the pen. So efficient and this is 2nd tier german football.

 

Why don't the refs in England use that flippin monitor to see for themselves? It makes no sense.

[KrefelderFox666]

10 minutes ago, Jonezy said:

Just saw Hamburg SV-Nürnberg on the telly. Nürnberg with a similar handball to the Villa one; ref called to the monitor; watched once or twice and then gave the pen. So efficient and this is 2nd tier german football.

 

Why don't the refs in England use that flippin monitor to see for themselves? It makes no sense.

Exactly what I have been saying. The ref makes the initial call, he is best placed to review his call once he has looked at replays. Not some bloke miles away who considers why the ref may have given the initial call and then doesn't want to undermine him.

[Oxfordfox83]

11 hours ago, Jonezy said:

Just saw Hamburg SV-Nürnberg on the telly. Nürnberg with a similar handball to the Villa one; ref called to the monitor; watched once or twice and then gave the pen. So efficient and this is 2nd tier german football.

 

Why don't the refs in England use that flippin monitor to see for themselves? It makes no sense.

 

10 hours ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Exactly what I have been saying. The ref makes the initial call, he is best placed to review his call once he has looked at replays. Not some bloke miles away who considers why the ref may have given the initial call and then doesn't want to undermine him.

Takes ages. If it’s clear and obvious the video ref should have the balls to call it.

 

I hate the monitor, can’t imagine the ego a ref would need to think they ought to use it. The bizarre message is “only I have the wisdom and insight to interpret the rules for this situation”. Ridiculous.

 

Just put someone competent in the VAR lounge, remove the restrictions on what they can and can’t overturn, and start getting decisions right!

[Oxfordfox83]

16 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

From the VAR site: https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297352

So there we go. I think this proves my point. It's possible for the VAR room to see the replays, believe it's a pen, not overturn Dean's original decision and still be 'correct' in doing so. Because of the interplay of the high threshold for 'clear and obvious', the referee's original decision and that the onfield ref always makes the final decision. 

 

Because the pen was not given, the assumption is that Dean must have told them he saw it hit the arm. 

 

As I say, I think all of the above is a bit bonkers - the emphasis should be on making the right decision, end of. 

I agree with your final comment. But you’ve got to have a threshold, or everything gets stopped and reviewed for hours to see whose throw-in it was when the ball squirts out of a tackle. 

 

In this situation, Mike Dean bottled the call and left it for VAR to mop up. Lee Mason didn’t have the balls to overrule. 

[KrefelderFox666]

35 minutes ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

 

Takes ages. If it’s clear and obvious the video ref should have the balls to call it.

 

I hate the monitor, can’t imagine the ego a ref would need to think they ought to use it. The bizarre message is “only I have the wisdom and insight to interpret the rules for this situation”. Ridiculous.

 

Just put someone competent in the VAR lounge, remove the restrictions on what they can and can’t overturn, and start getting decisions right!

I made reference to the rugby example earlier on in this thread. The VAR says to the ref, you may want to look at this situation. The referee, the VAR and the linesmen (maybe even the 4th official) then all watch the scene together and discuss it between them. In serious disagreement, the ref has the final say. It works superbly in rugby, and I think it can work in football too. Better than now.

[TheUltimateWinner]

2 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

I made reference to the rugby example earlier on in this thread. The VAR says to the ref, you may want to look at this situation. The referee, the VAR and the linesmen (maybe even the 4th official) then all watch the scene together and discuss it between them. In serious disagreement, the ref has the final say. It works superbly in rugby, and I think it can work in football too. Better than now.

Still think it's incredible we were one of the last major leagues to bring it in, so we had time to look at what other leagues (and sports) were doing, yet we've made the biggest fvck up of the lot! 

[Les-TA-Jon]

38 minutes ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

I agree with your final comment. But you’ve got to have a threshold, or everything gets stopped and reviewed for hours to see whose throw-in it was when the ball squirts out of a tackle. 

 

In this situation, Mike Dean bottled the call and left it for VAR to mop up. Lee Mason didn’t have the balls to overrule. 

Well again, what does 'bottle it' mean in this context? If Dean had passed the buck, VAR would have given the Pen no problem. Obviously we don't know what was said between the Ref and VAR (another issue - the lack of transparency!) so it's all conjecture, but the presumption is that VAR couldn't overturn it with the benefit of the replays, because Dean said he saw it. 

[jayfox26]

Apparently LCFC are seeking clarification from the FA and PGMOL as to why the pen wasnt given. Seems they are convinced the var official only checked the 1st block, which wasnt handball, and failed to check the actual handball. When you see Mike Dean's positioning, surely he has got to be questioned on how hes not given that. Refs and VAR officials have got to start being punished when they make obvious mistakes. I understand it can be tough for refs to make a split second decision when the game is played so fast but there is absolutely no excuse for VAR to make bad mistakes like that against Villa. 

 

Edit: not been on here for a few days and just noticed there is already a thread about us seeking clarification so apologies for my late arrival at the party 🤣

Edited 31 January 2020 by jayfox26

[NotTheMarketLeader]

48 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Well again, what does 'bottle it' mean in this context? If Dean had passed the buck, VAR would have given the Pen no problem. Obviously we don't know what was said between the Ref and VAR (another issue - the lack of transparency!) so it's all conjecture, but the presumption is that VAR couldn't overturn it with the benefit of the replays, because Dean said he saw it. 

It seemed to me that they’ve cocked up, as an article on the Mercury suggests.

 

While watching live, the only imcident on screen appeared to be the first shot of Maddison which was appealed for. This was immediately followed by the second shot where the handball occurred. It seems that the first one was reviewed by VAR; which rightly was not given; while the shot that clearly hit the hand wasnt reviewed, or by the time it was Dean was insistent that the corner should be taken.

 

I believe there is a strong possibility there was a major **** up in communication. 
 

If not, both Dean and Mason should be sacked for gross negligence within their duties. 
 

Edit: I’ve just posted almost the same as the guy above 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited 31 January 2020 by NotTheMarketLeader

[Flappit]

10 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

Apparently LCFC are seeking clarification from the FA and PGMOL as to why the pen wasnt given. Seems they are convinced the var official only checked the 1st block, which wasnt handball, and failed to check the actual handball. When you see Mike Dean's positioning, surely he has got to be questioned on how hes not given that. Refs and VAR officials have got to start being punished when they make obvious mistakes. I understand it can be tough for refs to make a split second decision when the game is played so fast but there is absolutely no excuse for VAR to make bad mistakes like that against Villa. 

 

Edit: not been on here for a few days and just noticed there is already a thread about us seeking clarification so apologies for my late arrival at the party 🤣

Other way round. 1st one was handball, second wasn't. 

[jayfox26]

3 minutes ago, Flappit said:

Other way round. 1st one was handball, second wasn't. 

Ah right fair enough. Either way, it was completely baffling how that decision wasnt given. 

[Jonezy]

1 hour ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

 

Takes ages. If it’s clear and obvious the video ref should have the balls to call it.

 

I hate the monitor, can’t imagine the ego a ref would need to think they ought to use it. The bizarre message is “only I have the wisdom and insight to interpret the rules for this situation”. Ridiculous.

 

Just put someone competent in the VAR lounge, remove the restrictions on what they can and can’t overturn, and start getting decisions right!

It did not take ages in the german game. Its better that the ref actually gets a second look, as he can compare it to what he think he saw. 

[Oxfordfox83]

44 minutes ago, Jonezy said:

It did not take ages in the german game. Its better that the ref actually gets a second look, as he can compare it to what he think he saw. 

Serious question: why is that better?

[Jonezy]

1 hour ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

Serious question: why is that better?

For example Dean could tell VAR that he saw the ball hit the players arm, but the ball was hit so fast, he didn't think it was worthy of a pen. The VAR room could confirm this and not overrule it. If Dean could see the situation a second time, he might see it a bit differently and change his mind. 

 

Obviously proper black and white decisions like a clear offside or something should just be called by the VAR room, but corner cases like defensive handballs and minimal contact pens, I would like the on field ref to a have second look.

[Clever Fox]

 

Yes again it was a Penalty today.. I'd love to see a Legal challenge against the Refs Association who are responsible for Var.

 

This is the only way we will get justice or If only to find out how decisions are being made currently. Because everyone can see whats wrong with it yet nothing is been done to correct it. 

 

I can fully understand teething problems, But I expected adjustments to it as the season went on.

[goody2028]

[David Hankey]

Referees should be urged/told to "refer" to the pitch side monitors or allow the 4th official to view incidents.I think we all agree the situation is no better than it was before this system was introduced. Is this really the progress we all wanted?!!

[David Hankey]

In the poll at the top of this topic 108 so far have voted that they love it and it's the best invention since sliced bread. Perhaps one of them can explain why.

[Col city fan]

10 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

In the poll at the top of this topic 108 so far have voted that they love it and it's the best invention since sliced bread. Perhaps one of them can explain why.

Edited 1 February 2020 by Col city fan

[Clever Fox]

8 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Referees should be urged/told to "refer" to the pitch side monitors or allow the 4th official to view incidents.I think we all agree the situation is no better than it was before this system was introduced. Is this really the progress we all wanted?!!

it's worse, At least back then we could only blame the Referee. Now we have the Referee and Var and still cant get it right. The technology is the right way to go.

It's just that these mistakes shouldn't be happening. And more transparency is needed to justify decisions.

 

We've missed a cup Final. And 2 points against Burnley and another 3 today against Chelsea.  Which would have virtually guaranteed our top 4 finish.

 

This situation just can't be allowed to continue. It's distorting the league and needs sorting. Otherwise Fans will begin to think that other forces are at play.

[KrefelderFox666]

37 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

 

Yes again it was a Penalty today.. I'd love to see a Legal challenge against the Refs Association who are responsible for Var.

 

This is the only way we will get justice or If only to find out how decisions are being made currently. Because everyone can see whats wrong with it yet nothing is been done to correct it. 

 

I can fully understand teething problems, But I expected adjustments to it as the season went on.

Not a penalty for me. Villa one 100%, today no. Problem is, we've seen similar ones given (Soyuncu vs Liverpool). So it's frustrating when the rules are so unclear.

 

If the ref gives that penalty, VAR doesn't overturn it.