Brexit!

[Leicester_Loyal]

11 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

> selling for 6 months

> no ratings 

> no reviews

> probably only one copy sold to Ed Davey

 

Truly a threat to the West

Ah I see, rather than condemning it you're going to make a joke about it. That seems to happen a lot. I'll await your reply condemning it

[Leicester_Loyal]

Labour MP caught on camera telling Dominic Cummings to die in a ditch. It appears the 'bad language' is being used by both sides at the moment

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Labour MP caught on camera telling Dominic Cummings to die in a ditch. It appears the 'bad language' is being used by both sides at the moment

 

23 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

What we need to worry about is the entire idea of Us and Them, no matter what ideology is floating it.

 

Is it really not apparent we've got enough threats from outside humanity without making up more for ourselves? Evidently not.

[The Guvnor]

17 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

Haha, either way he broke the law.

 

If Guvnor's definitions were correct, Murder (which is common law, not statutory law) would not be illegal, just unlawful.

I'll give you one thing, your tenacity is commendable.

Edited 27 September 2019 by The Guvnor

[Finnaldo]

12 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Ah I see, rather than condemning it you're going to make a joke about it. That seems to happen a lot. I'll await your reply condemning it

 

Sorry I was just in it for the Ed Davey joke tbh.

 

Here's my full statement:

 

I am shocked and stunned today by news of grave concern to our nation and citizens. At 13:43 this after of noon, the discovery of a violently passive-aggressive article of memorabilia found on the e-commerce site Amazon[.com], titled 'My Little Book Of All The Brexiteers I Want To Stab: Blank Ruled Notebook Journal For Remainers and EU Voters Anti-Brexit (UK Politics)' has shook the British public with it's content and intent, equally shocking and stunning in nature. With it's current 'Average customer review' as: 'Be the first to review this item', it is sure this violent agenda is sweeping the country and radicalising the Remain campaign, already accused of heinous acts such as calling the Prime Minister 'Bozo' and littering, with the severity and frequency of such campaigns only expected to intensify in a way undeniably shocking and assuredly stunning. In conjunction with this terrifying news, Her Majesty's Secret Service has announced suspicion of the involvement of international terrorist and provocateur Ed Davey.

 

These developments, as shocking and stunning as I am sure you are all now aware, are completely unacceptable. As such, it is impossible to simply sweep this under the rug as a weirdo desperate for cash selling tat online, rather it must face the full force of the law. Therefore, I have contacted  law enforcement, advising an armed response unit on full shoot-to-kill orders put an end to this menace, and hopefully, Ed Davey as well.

 

Lots of love,

 

The Director of Remoaner Communication an Bearer of all Condemnation,

 

F x

[Alf Bentley]

44 minutes ago, Milo said:

No argument here. 

 

Although, 

 

Did you hear car crash Abbott on R4 yesterday? 

She failed to see that senior Labour politicians and shadow cabinet members calling Johnson a dictator and saying that he was staging a coup in any way had an effect on the tone of his responses  to them. 

 

Of course it shouldn’t happen at all, but both sides are guilty of using inflammatory language. 

 

Johnson is a tool, but he’s been put in position on a one topic ticket and he’s doing everything he thinks is needed to see it through. 

 

Thought the AG’s outburst about summed it up - remain MP’s have been blocking everything in the hope that something would change, or that we’d all lose interest. 

 

Johnson has a deadline and agenda that has woken everyone up. 

 

🤷‍♂️

 

I didn't hear Abbott but disagree with her comment, assuming that's what she said.

 

That said, there are nuances in this. I think that I described Johnson's prorogation as "dictatorial", but would justify that. I think it's a fair description when a PM unlawfully suspends our sovereign democratic institution in an effort to force through his political will. Likewise, if he tries to defy Parliament over the extension. Trying to be even-handed, a case could be made for accusing Corbyn of being "soft on terrorism"....but describing him as a "supporter of terrorism" would be taking it too far.

 

I certainly agree that both sides are guilty of using inflammatory language - Miliband recognises that in his excellent speech. But there's something particularly scary and dangerous about the most powerful person in the nation doing it - and apparently adopting it as a strategy for gaining power (not just for Brexit, but for 5 years running our country).

 

I disagree with the idea that all Remain MPs, or only Remain MPs have caused the impasse. Some have certainly been hoping to get a referendum to reverse the outcome. But, during the indicative votes, the vast majority voted for one or more forms of Soft Brexit, but were defeated by the Tories & DUP voting en masse against that. Mainstream Tories, including most of the expelled rebels, have voted for May's Hard Brexit + Backstop deal. The only group not to have voted for ANY Brexit Deal is the ERG & DUP hardcore ("Trojans" or whatever they call themselves) as they're happy with No Deal. It's not a case of one side "blocking everything", it's that parliament as a whole has not reached a compromise....who's to blame is another debate.

 

I suspect that Johnson has 2 agendas:

- To get Brexit done (but he has a responsibility to do this democratically, without provoking needless strife)

- To use - and, frankly, to exacerbate - Brexit divisions so as to get 5 years of unfettered power.....to do what, fvck knows?

[Leicester_Loyal]

9 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

Sorry I was just in it for the Ed Davey joke tbh.

 

Here's my full statement:

 

I am shocked and stunned today by news of grave concern to our nation and citizens. At 13:43 this after of noon, the discovery of a violently passive-aggressive article of memorabilia found on the e-commerce site Amazon[.com], titled 'My Little Book Of All The Brexiteers I Want To Stab: Blank Ruled Notebook Journal For Remainers and EU Voters Anti-Brexit (UK Politics)' has shook the British public with it's content and intent, equally shocking and stunning in nature. With it's current 'Average customer review' as: 'Be the first to review this item', it is sure this violent agenda is sweeping the country and radicalising the Remain campaign, already accused of heinous acts such as calling the Prime Minister 'Bozo' and littering, with the severity and frequency of such campaigns only expected to intensify in a way undeniably shocking and assuredly stunning. In conjunction with this terrifying news, Her Majesty's Secret Service has announced suspicion of the involvement of international terrorist and provocateur Ed Davey.

 

These developments, as shocking and stunning as I am sure you are all now aware, are completely unacceptable. As such, it is impossible to simply sweep this under the rug as a weirdo desperate for cash selling tat online, rather it must face the full force of the law. Therefore, I have contacted  law enforcement, advising an armed response unit on full shoot-to-kill orders put an end to this menace, and hopefully, Ed Davey as well.

 

Lots of love,

 

The Director of Remoaner Communication an Bearer of all Condemnation,

 

F x

Yet if it was a book about stabbing Remainers you'd be the first one in here saying the right wing agenda is sweeping through the country and needs stopping

[Finnaldo]

4 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Yet if it was a book about stabbing Remainers you'd be the first one in here saying the right wing agenda is sweeping through the country and needs stopping

 

Doesn't need to be a book when there's been a Remain MP shot to death.

 

You're also equating Dominic Cummings, an extremely talented propagandist and campaign director with the backing of the Conservative Party who recently said "if you don't want to be threatened with death, do as I say", to some unknown internet freak selling some obscure tat on Amazon.

 

It don't add up.

Edited 27 September 2019 by Finnaldo

[Leicester_Loyal]

5 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

Doesn't need to be a book when there's been a Remainer shot to death.

 

You're also equating Dominic Cummings, an extremely talented propagandist and campaign director with the backing of the Conservative Party who recently said "if you don't want to be threatened with death, do as I say", to some unknown internet freak selling some obscure tat on Amazon.

 

It don't add up.

My original point was both sides are as bad as each other. There seems to be condemning on here when one side does something, but silence when the other does it. I wasn't equating them, they were two seperate points. One was the Labour MPs saying Boris is using 'offensive language' then telling Dominic Cummings to 'Die in a ditch' on the same day. It reeks of hypocrisy. The book point was due to someone in here saying that the far right is sweeping across the nation, but so is the far left.

 

Again, they are both as bad as each other, as someone else above said also.

Edited 27 September 2019 by Leicester_Loyal

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

My original point was both sides are as bad as each other. There seems to be condemning on here when one side does something, but silence when the other does it. I wasn't equating them, they were two seperate points. One was the Labour MPs saying Boris is using 'offensive language' then telling Dominic Cummings to 'Die in a ditch' on the same day. It reeks of hypocrisy. The book point was due to someone in here saying that the far right is sweeping across the nation, but so is the far left.

 

Again, they are both as bad as each other, as someone else above said also.

As I posted before, and others have pointed out, law enforcement and counter-terrorism officials in the UK don't seem to be indicating that they believe "both sides are as bad as each other". 

Edited 27 September 2019 by bovril

[Finnaldo]

Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

My original point was both sides are as bad as each other. There seems to be condemning on here when one side does something, but silence when the other does it. I wasn't equating them, they were two seperate points, one was the Labour MPs saying Boris is using 'offensive language' then telling Dominic Cummings to 'Die in a ditch' on the same day. It reeks of hypocrisy. The book point was due to someone in here saying that the far right is sweeping across the nation, but so is the far left.

 

Again, they are both as bad as each other, as someone else above said also.

 

There's been a steady rise in far-right terror attacks over recent years 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49753325

 

I have not seen such a threat from 'the far Left' 

 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but currently it seems much less inclined to wreak violent attacks on the general public.

 

Regarding the Labour MP, it's extremely poor form and indeed, dangerous language to use and it shouldn't be tolerated, even if it was an emotional response.

[Leicester_Loyal]

10 minutes ago, bovril said:

As I posted before, and others have pointed out, law enforcement and counter-terrorism officials in the UK don't seem to be indicating that they believe "both sides are as bad as each other". 

Read through this thread, both sides are as bad as each other. Look at parliament, both sides are as bad as each other. The sooner we accept it's both of them and not one side the quicker we can deal with the issue rather than pretending one side is worse than the other.

 

EDIT: Just to add, this issue was here prior to the Brexit debate, it's just heightened it and brought it to the surface.

Edited 27 September 2019 by Leicester_Loyal

[bovril]

Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

Read through this thread, both sides are as bad as each other. Look at parliament, both sides are as bad as each other. The sooner we accept it's both of them and not one side the quicker we can deal with the issue rather than pretending one side is worse than the other.

I think this thread is pretty civil, to be honest, especially compared to some stuff online. I would say that the majority of violent comments I read on social media come from leavers, but I accept that I may just notice them more and obviously social media is not always representative.

 

In terms of the HoC, I agree that there have been unpleasant remarks on both sides. However, as others have pointed out, Johnson as the PM has extra responsibility whether he likes it or not, and suggesting that MP's should vote for a Brexit deal for their own personal safety is possibly the worst thing I have heard from any PM. 

 

In terms of wider society, as I already said, prominent law-enforcement officials have stated unequivocally that there is a serious risk from far-right extremism in the country, in no small part due to Brexit. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

 

Now I have no idea behind the situation here regarding this tweet, but if it's true, will it go down as a far left hate crime in the statistics? Likewise with the Owen Jones one a few weeks back.

 

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

My point about it all is that Cummins so candidly says 'get Brexit done' as if it's some kind of solution or answer to stop getting death threats. 

 

I know death threats have been going on for years. It's not new and I'm fully aware of that. But when your first retort to someone talking about their own safety and vulnerability is to say 'get Brexit done' then there's something wrong. 

 

Coming from Cummins it sounds like a threat. Sinister low-life of a person.

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

I think this thread is pretty civil, to be honest, especially compared to some stuff online. I would say that the majority of violent comments I read on social media come from leavers, but I accept that I may just notice them more and obviously social media is not always representative.

 

In terms of the HoC, I agree that there have been unpleasant remarks on both sides. However, as others have pointed out, Johnson as the PM has extra responsibility whether he likes it or not, and suggesting that MP's should vote for a Brexit deal for their own personal safety is possibly the worst thing I have heard from any PM. 

 

In terms of wider society, as I already said, prominent law-enforcement officials have stated unequivocally that there is a serious risk from far-right extremism in the country, in no small part due to Brexit. 

That is a fair response, I don't think we should shift the blame entirely one side, but I agree from figures one side could be worse than the other (I haven't seen any actual statistics myself). BoJo is an idiot at times, 100%.

[bovril]

The whole thing is just tragic honestly, the country is completely toxic. I imagine most people wish they'd never heard the word Brexit. Complete farce. 

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, Saxondale said:

I don't think you're right. Whilst the two words are often used in different contexts, I don't think such technical distinction exists. 

No, apparently he’s right. There is a subtle difference in legal speak, much to my surprise. Illegal and unlawful are technically different.

[The Guvnor]

4 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

No, apparently he’s right. There is a subtle difference in legal speak, much to my surprise. Illegal and unlawful are technically different.

As I'm sure my wife will confirm, I'm never wrong.

[WigstonWanderer]

33 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

My original point was both sides are as bad as each other. There seems to be condemning on here when one side does something, but silence when the other does it. I wasn't equating them, they were two seperate points. One was the Labour MPs saying Boris is using 'offensive language' then telling Dominic Cummings to 'Die in a ditch' on the same day. It reeks of hypocrisy. The book point was due to someone in here saying that the far right is sweeping across the nation, but so is the far left.

 

Again, they are both as bad as each other, as someone else above said also.

I always think that the far left start off with idealism but eventually end up as evil after gaining power, whereas the far right are purely evil in the first place.

[lgfualol]

2 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

 

Now I have no idea behind the situation here regarding this tweet, but if it's true, will it go down as a far left hate crime in the statistics? Likewise with the Owen Jones one a few weeks back.

 

How would anyone recognise him as a conservative on a night out, was he wearing a glow in the dark sticker or what

[Milo]

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I didn't hear Abbott but disagree with her comment, assuming that's what she said.

 

That said, there are nuances in this. I think that I described Johnson's prorogation as "dictatorial", but would justify that. I think it's a fair description when a PM unlawfully suspends our sovereign democratic institution in an effort to force through his political will. Likewise, if he tries to defy Parliament over the extension. Trying to be even-handed, a case could be made for accusing Corbyn of being "soft on terrorism"....but describing him as a "supporter of terrorism" would be taking it too far.

 

I certainly agree that both sides are guilty of using inflammatory language - Miliband recognises that in his excellent speech. But there's something particularly scary and dangerous about the most powerful person in the nation doing it - and apparently adopting it as a strategy for gaining power (not just for Brexit, but for 5 years running our country).

 

I disagree with the idea that all Remain MPs, or only Remain MPs have caused the impasse. Some have certainly been hoping to get a referendum to reverse the outcome. But, during the indicative votes, the vast majority voted for one or more forms of Soft Brexit, but were defeated by the Tories & DUP voting en masse against that. Mainstream Tories, including most of the expelled rebels, have voted for May's Hard Brexit + Backstop deal. The only group not to have voted for ANY Brexit Deal is the ERG & DUP hardcore ("Trojans" or whatever they call themselves) as they're happy with No Deal. It's not a case of one side "blocking everything", it's that parliament as a whole has not reached a compromise....who's to blame is another debate.

 

I suspect that Johnson has 2 agendas:

- To get Brexit done (but he has a responsibility to do this democratically, without provoking needless strife)

- To use - and, frankly, to exacerbate - Brexit divisions so as to get 5 years of unfettered power.....to do what, fvck knows?

Yes, you're correct. I reread my post and it does read like that - apologies.

 

However, Mays nobody wins, half in/half out abomination and it's subsequent bastard offspring was hardly Brexit, so it was unlikely that any Leave MP's would entertain it.

 

I don't relish the idea of Johnson using Brexit as a springboard for power either...but Parliament has been dicking about for years rather than doing anything meaningful. Corbyn looks like a rabbit in Bojo's headlights - purely reacting to events and sniping impotently from the sidelines, as he's done for decades, rather than doing what needs to be done.

 

No sympathy with the wasteful MP's that are now scrabbling around, soiling themselves at the sudden realisation that Johnson has some kind of loophole to the Benn Act that he can (and will) use.

 

Lib Dems (We will respect the outcome of the referendum/We will ignore the referendum) and Labour (We will wait and see what happens and then change our minds) are as much as a disgrace as the great buffoon and co.       

  

[StanSP]

16 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

How would anyone recognise him as a conservative on a night out, was he wearing a glow in the dark sticker or what

To be fair, on his Twitter bio, he's chairman of Hallam conservatives so I'm guessing he's quite recognisable. 

 

Having said that, a quick scroll through his Twitter timeline indicates he gets drunk quite a lot and goes out a lot and ends up tweeting about his drunkenness. 

 

Who knows if it was true whether he was 'attacked' just because he was a Tory or if he was being a bit of a bellend like many drunken people are on a night out? 

[Matt]

So pathetic, from them all.

 

These fuckers are supposed to be running the country.

 

Instead it's bicker, bicker, bicker, 'he said this', 'she said that', it's playground stuff.

 

The threats, abuse isn't right and can't be condoned or explained but people are simply fed up and the politicians tit for tat tactics when they are all as bad as each other, all lie, all say 'nasty' things about each other, it's just pathetic.

 

[Milo]

I think we could do much better than any of the current lot - surely an FT Shadow(y) Cabinet would sort things out...

 

I'd start of with:

 

PM - @Alf Bentley

Deputy - @MattP

Environment @leicsmac

Rural affairs @Countryfox

Minister for fun @Izzy

Health & Social care @Crinklyfox

Minister without portfolio @Buce

Foreign Secretary @FIF

Brexit Secretary @Strokes 

 

 

 

Obviously we'd need to fill it out a bit more...

 

 

But I reckon we'd nail it 

Edited 27 September 2019 by Milo