Corona Virus

[fox in the sox]

Social distancing for 2 years may be required - I'm sure we could all cope with no sport, pubs, theatres etc and shopping restrictions if we really had to - but the number of businesses that would disappear and the unemployment level would leave the country in such a mess.

[z-layrex]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

I totally agree with this, and for me that is and should be where most criticism lies. They got caught with their pants down on PPE and have been chasing their tails ever since.

I’ve heard rumours that a lot of care homes were sent expired PPE with stickers over the expiration date, I don’t know how true it is mind.

So our 3M masks have expired dates with labels put over the top (those labels are expired too 😆), it's the supply from the military I believe. Apparently though they were tested and it's OK.

 

 

[WigstonWanderer]

@murphy and @Strokes, I’m going to bow out of this argument as you seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what I’m saying and don’t seem to want to believe the evidence of your own eyes by watching the Vallance interview that I posted. Others who can be arsed to read the thread can make up their own minds.

[murphy]

4 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Jesus! The mental gymnastics of the Tory fanboys on here never ceases to amaze me. I’m not even really having a go at the government. Many governments around the world dithered in February and even March, and it is to the UK government’s credit that they changed their minds. But to suggest that the herd immunity approach was never seriously considered and that anyone suggesting so it thick, is simply laughable,

 

During the first press conference with Vallance, Whitty and Johnson, Vallance gave the clear impression that this was current government policy.

 

Here is Vallance saying the same thing again, quite unequivocal.

 

Even on here we had people posting a video of the guy giving an analogy of a bucket full of water (the population), and the jug with a hole in it (the health service capacity). The analogy was that the whole population had to catch the disease without overflowing the jug. Probably the same people posting it that are the ones now denying it was ever a consideration.

 

It was only later when Imperial College produced charts in which it was quite clear that the NHS capacity was totally inadequate for such a policy, and that 250k or more would die, that the government took a different tack. Yes, they did say that other actions would be taken later to mitigate, but suppression was NOT their original policy.

Watched this now and I mean, come on.  Is this your smoking gun?  Talk about wilful misinterpretation.

 

He talks about the measures that have been introduced and that may have to be introduced in future.  He talks about the danger that too harsh a lockdown too soon can bring about a second larger peak and most pertinently of all he says that the virus cannot be stopped.  Even a four month total lockdown would bring about a second peak in his opinion, so it is about suppressing it.  Staged responses,  Managing it and a benefit of this would be acquired immunity at which point he is asked specifically about herd immunity.  He is asked how many people would need to be infected and recovered to get there - 60% as we all now know.  He is simply answering that question.  He is not saying that is our aim, or our policy.

 

People that still insist that early government policy was to acquire herd immunity by allowing the virus to run it's course are simply arguing that black is white.  They need to understand one thing, that it can't be stopped so it has to be managed.  Herd immunity was never the plan, only ever a by product.  Vallance said so himself, just the other day.

 

[FoxesDeb]

4 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

@murphy and @Strokes, I’m going to bow out of this argument as you seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what I’m saying and don’t seem to want to believe the evidence of your own eyes by watching the Vallance interview that I posted. Others who can be arsed to read the thread can make up their own minds.

I have watched it twice now, and I think if you take from it that herd immunity was ever government policy you must get a different video from me when you click on the link. 

[murphy]

3 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

@murphy and @Strokes, I’m going to bow out of this argument as you seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what I’m saying and don’t seem to want to believe the evidence of your own eyes by watching the Vallance interview that I posted. Others who can be arsed to read the thread can make up their own minds.

Fair enough.  I have just posted my response to that as you can see, just as you have written this.  Disagreeing with you isn't misrepresentation but I agree with you that we should leave it there.  I though the issue was dead and buried a while back anyway.

[yorkie1999]

24 minutes ago, fox in the sox said:

Social distancing for 2 years may be required - I'm sure we could all cope with no sport, pubs, theatres etc and shopping restrictions if we really had to - but the number of businesses that would disappear and the unemployment level would leave the country in such a mess.

No chance could this country cope with that. Six months and we'd have anarchy.

[Sampson]

I'm assuming the long-term social distancing is going to be more like Italy was pre-lockdown where you can still go to pubs, clothes shops, cafes, restaurants etc. but it will be like grocery shopping is now with limited people in at one time and tables, queues and chairs have to be spread 6ft apart.

 

Theatres, night clubs and concerts are probably a no go until the 2nd half of next year. Sports will likely be played behind closed doors.

 

Whether cafes or pubs could survive the limited capacity and therefore decreased income or not could be a big worry though.

Edited 16 April 2020 by Sampson

[murphy]

From the Guardian:

 

In India, politicians from the ruling Hindu nationalist BJP party have been touting cow urine as a cure for Covid-19.

In Tanzania the president has promised that taking communion in church would “burn” the virus away.

In Brazil a congressman claimed a day of fasting would halt its spread.

As the global pandemic has worsened, politicians, faith leaders and other authority figures from around the world have touted unscientific methods to tackle its spread.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, murphy said:

From the Guardian:

 

In India, politicians from the ruling Hindu nationalist BJP party have been touting cow urine as a cure for Covid-19.

In Tanzania the president has promised that taking communion in church would “burn” the virus away.

In Brazil a congressman claimed a day of fasting would halt its spread.

As the global pandemic has worsened, politicians, faith leaders and other authority figures from around the world have touted unscientific methods to tackle its spread.

What was that Asimov quote again?

 

"...the strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

 

He said that regarding the US, but it can easily apply anywhere else around the world. And the worst of it is, the more people suffer and die, the more likely others are to panic and in their panic and ignorance turn to solutions that are nothing but empty promises...like these examples here. The problem becomes self-perpetuating.

[Jon the Hat]

22 hours ago, StanSP said:

Care workers want proper equipment. 

 

Our government: here, have a badge 

 

 

Or more accruately, we are working on the PPE as fast as we can, and in the meantime here is some of the recognition the NHS are getting with their NHS badge in retailers and so on - you have one too you deserve it.

[yorkie1999]

5 minutes ago, murphy said:

From the Guardian:

 

In India, politicians from the ruling Hindu nationalist BJP party have been touting cow urine as a cure for Covid-19.

In Tanzania the president has promised that taking communion in church would “burn” the virus away.

In Brazil a congressman claimed a day of fasting would halt its spread.

As the global pandemic has worsened, politicians, faith leaders and other authority figures from around the world have touted unscientific methods to tackle its spread.

I'm still rooting for the Belarus answer, they've only had 40 deaths from covid-19. 12 million from liver failure bu, hey ho!

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, murphy said:

From the Guardian:

 

In India, politicians from the ruling Hindu nationalist BJP party have been touting cow urine as a cure for Covid-19.

In Tanzania the president has promised that taking communion in church would “burn” the virus away.

In Brazil a congressman claimed a day of fasting would halt its spread.

As the global pandemic has worsened, politicians, faith leaders and other authority figures from around the world have touted unscientific methods to tackle its spread.

Same as the US religious nuts then.

[Jon the Hat]

15 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

No chance could this country cope with that. Six months and we'd have anarchy.

 

44 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

So our 3M masks have expired dates with labels put over the top (those labels are expired too 😆), it's the supply from the military I believe. Apparently though they were tested and it's OK.

Not sure why a mask should expire?

[Finnaldo]

Just now, Sampson said:

I'm assuming the long-term social distancing is going to be more like Italy was pre-lockdown where you can still go to pubs, clothes shops, cafes, restaurants etc. but it will be like grocery shopping is now with limited people in at one time and tables have to be spread 6ft apart.

 

Theatres, night clubs and concerts are probably a no go until the 2nd half of next year. Sports will likely be played behind closed doors.

My main query is how do you enforce it? It’s possible now in supermarkets as there’s no longer a mad dash for the shops and supermarkets haven’t really been under any financial pressure (of anything there’s been a boom with panic buyers) so they’ll follow the rules as instructed, they don’t have much to lose out on in the grand scheme of things.

 

There’ll be thousands of pubs reopening and their landlords have missed out on at least a couple months income and they’ll be on their arse, desperate to recoup losses. There’s a good chance many will simply flounder the rules, and whilst I’d hope they didn’t, I couldn’t really blame them in the circumstances. Plenty of folks will be rushing over to their local and it’ll be mayhem, this whole saga has shown how we can’t trust Joe Public to be accountable for themselves.

[Guest Harrydc]

53 minutes ago, fox in the sox said:

Social distancing for 2 years may be required - I'm sure we could all cope with no sport, pubs, theatres etc and shopping restrictions if we really had to - but the number of businesses that would disappear and the unemployment level would leave the country in such a mess.

There's an estimated 46,000 pubs in thr UK. Absolutely no way we could cope.

 

That's my job lost instantly, because I don't see a Tory government paying wages for 2 years, and even if they did I'm sure it would be paid back in tax at a later date. 

[whoareyaaa]

8 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

My main query is how do you enforce it? It’s possible now in supermarkets as there’s no longer a mad dash for the shops and supermarkets haven’t really been under any financial pressure (of anything there’s been a boom with panic buyers) so they’ll follow the rules as instructed, they don’t have much to lose out on in the grand scheme of things.

 

There’ll be thousands of pubs reopening and their landlords have missed out on at least a couple months income and they’ll be on their arse, desperate to recoup losses. There’s a good chance many will simply flounder the rules, and whilst I’d hope they didn’t, I couldn’t really blame them in the circumstances. Plenty of folks will be rushing over to their local and it’ll be mayhem, this whole saga has shown how we can’t trust Joe Public to be accountable for themselves.

What a ridiculous comment 

[fox in the sox]

5 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

There's an estimated 46,000 pubs in thr UK. Absolutely no way we could cope.

 

That's my job lost instantly, because I don't see a Tory government paying wages for 2 years, and even if they did I'm sure it would be paid back in tax at a later date. 

No I'm not saying the people who work in those industries could cope that's why I mentioned unemployment. I meant that people who go to pubs will miss it but would be able to cope without it.

Edited 16 April 2020 by fox in the sox

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

What a ridiculous comment 

I'm not entirely sure it is. There's a few examples from various corners of the world upstream about how humans can, when pressure is applied, become panicked and self-motivated headless chickens liable to harm themselves and those around them. The UK isn't exempt from such people, either. Yes, it's a minority, but unfortunately in this case a minority can cause rather a lot of damage.

[whoareyaaa]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm not entirely sure it is. There's a few examples from various corners of the world upstream about how humans can, when pressure is applied, become panicked and self-motivated headless chickens liable to harm themselves and those around them. The UK isn't exempt from such people, either. Yes, it's a minority, but unfortunately in this case a minority can cause rather a lot of damage.

In the case of protesters prior to this virus I could agree however since we have been in lockdown the vast majority have co operated 

[Finnaldo]

8 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

What a ridiculous comment 

I don’t think it is. 
 

It doesn’t take a majority to cause big issues as we saw with panic buyers. You just need a select group who feel they’re above current rulings to fill pubs across the country and set us back to square one.

 

This isn’t some government apologism either. I’ve been very vocal about what I perceived as government failings but individual exceptionalism has also been a big problem in some areas of society.

[HankMarvin]

Doctor warns that bacteria from FARTS could be spreading coronavirus

 

16 Apr 2020, 

 

 

Doctor warns that bacteria from FARTS could be spreading coronavirus

Tiny poo particles may spread the disease

Coronavirus could be spreading through farts, a doctor has claimed.

Australian doctor Andy Tagg came up with the bizarre claim after analysing the results of a series of tests on COVID-19 patients.

He claims there is a chance that the virus can be passed on via the bodily gas.

Stand back if your other half lets out a fart – it could give you coronavirus 

Dr Tagg said the virus was present in the faeces of 55% of coronavirus patients.

He then said that farts could contain tiny poo particles that may spread the disease.

The doctor wrote in a report: "Well, SARS-CoV-2 [coronavirus] can be detected in faeces and has been detected in an asymptomatic individual up to 17 days post-exposure."

 

He cited earlier tests that have shown farts are able to spray talcum powder long distances.

Dr Tagg added: "Perhaps SARS-CoV-2 can be spread through the power of parping – we need more evidence."

He then issued instructions to wear "appropriate PPE at all times" and stay safe.

Previous research

Back in the early 2000s, a study was carried out into the possibility of farts spreading diseases.

Previous research has showed that farts can spread bacteria (Credit: Pixabay)

A doctor asked a colleague to pass wind on Petri dishes from a distance of 5cm.

First while wearing pants and then without.

Perhaps it can be spread through the power of parping.

The first dish remained clean overnight, while the other sprouted bacteria.

 

China previously warned that if an infected patient farted excessively while not wearing underwear, and someone close by inhaled the gas, they could be at risk.

The claims have, however, been debunked by experts.

Dr Sarah Jarvis Said it's very unlikely Brits can catch coronavirus through farts.

She said: "The likelihood of someone catching the virus because they were close to someone who farted is really tiny."

"You are way, way more likely to catch it by being in close contact with someone who coughs or sneezes, or by picking up droplets (from coughs or sneezes) on your hands when you touch a hard surface," she added.

Element of truth

However, she did say there could be an element of truth to the claims.

You're more likely to catch it from coughs and sneezes (Credit: Pixabay)

Dr Jarvis urged people to maintain good toilet hygiene. She also pointed to a new symptom that's sometimes evident before a cough or fever starts.

She said: "There have been some reports of coronavirus being present in poo, and of up to one in ten patients developing diarrhoea a day or two before they get other symptoms such as cough and fever."

Dr Jarvis said it underlined the importance of being careful when cleaning the bathroom if anyone in your house has symptoms of coronavirus.

Edited 16 April 2020 by HankMarvin

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

In the case of protesters prior to this virus I could agree however since we have been in lockdown the vast majority have co operated 

The majority, and for the time being.

 

I hope you're right about the general sentiment holding on, but the longer this all spins on for...well, I just hope you're right.

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

42 minutes ago, murphy said:

From the Guardian:

 

In India, politicians from the ruling Hindu nationalist BJP party have been touting cow urine as a cure for Covid-19.

In Tanzania the president has promised that taking communion in church would “burn” the virus away.

In Brazil a congressman claimed a day of fasting would halt its spread.

As the global pandemic has worsened, politicians, faith leaders and other authority figures from around the world have touted unscientific methods to tackle its spread.

. Religion is a plague it really is.

Edited 16 April 2020 by Sol thewall Bamba

[murphy]

9 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

 

Doctor warns that bacteria from FARTS could be spreading coronavirus

Tiny poo particles may spread the disease...

 

Another reason to blame Trump(s)!

 

 

Edited 16 April 2020 by murphy