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urban.spaceman

Ben Chilwell

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35 minutes ago, Hales said:

What? I was just asking a question as the "rule" is generally 1 first team player sold so I was wondering if one was sold would they sell the other too did anyone think? Just a curious question that's all? 🤷‍♀️

My personal thought is BR would rather Kel went than Ben.....

I don't think we chose to sell one player each summer. 

 

Kante we had no choice. Drinky was a trouble maker so he forced our hand. Mahrez we postponed his inevitable sale until it became impossible to hold him back any more. Maguire we'd have preferred to keep it we honoured our word to him that he could go if an OTT offer came in. 

 

I suspect chilly was told the same last summer what Maguire was told the summer before. And I expect Maddison was told the same this summer too. That's why all three (Maddison tbc) signed up to new deals. 

 

Next year is going to be super difficult though. Ricardo's contract running down, Cags, Wilf and Maddison could all be rightfully itching for a move and attracting huge bids. There's some serious succession planning needed. 

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If someone bids anywhere near £80m, we'd have to accept.

 

I get people's frustrations with him, and I don't know whether his whole 'cut back and take the easy pass as soon as you get past the halfway line' approach is a mentality thing or coached, but if he all of a sudden decides that he wants to run on more and get to the byline then he'll be one of the best full backs in the world. That kid who tore Atletico to shreds is still in there somewhere.

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So disappointingly fashionable to be "down" on Chilwell.  :rolleyes:

 

He is not a top top level player, but he is a good player, England's 1st choice LB and he is a product of this very club.

Our closer exposure to Ben causes us to see his every wrinkle, his every flaw.

Surely by now we realise that  clips of other players only show the good bits!

Not calling for anything other than a bit of perspective 

 

Edited by Dahnsouff
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Chilwell divides opinion, yes.

 

I rate him highly, and I’d like to keep him. However, for £80m, we could buy Telles and a right winger. 
 

We’ve got to be pragmatic. He’ll he a top, top left back, however for £80,000,000, we can improve the team overall. 

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12 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So disappointingly fashionable to be "down" on Chilwell.  :rolleyes:

 

He is not a top top level player, but he is a good player, England's 1st choice LB and he is a product of this very club.

Our closer exposure to Ben causes us to see his every wrinkle, his every flaw.

Surely by now we realise that  clips of other players only show the good bits!

Not calling for anything other than a bit of perspective 

 

He’s not at Ricardos level now. However he’s still young. 
 

I’m still unsure how Ricardo isn’t playing for Portugal on a regular basis.

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17 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

Over rated? You obviously havent been around this forum or Leicester fans! If anything he is underrated by most fans. He is a full international English left back that's come through our academy and you think we should flog him for 40m?  Honestly I give up with some of our fans! 

 

For the sake of him I hope we do sell him as our fans don't deserve him. 

 

The fact he’s in the England team says more about the England team than Ben Chilwell to be honest though.

 

And it doesn’t mean he isn’t overrated - in fact, it’s the primary reason why he is! 

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3 minutes ago, Sly said:

Chilwell divides opinion, yes.

 

I rate him highly, and I’d like to keep him. However, for £80m, we could buy Telles and a right winger. 
 

We’ve got to be pragmatic. He’ll he a top, top left back, however for £80,000,000, we can improve the team overall. 

Oh I quite agree and I do not think defending him renders him unsellable asset. As the sale of Harry showed, great things can be done with seemingly negative situations.

 

Do not see a repeat of the 80m personally as Ben has never been quite as "in vogue" as Harry was, but we may get 65m, which is probably still worth selling at.

My point was that it is easy (nay, lazy) to just slag him off, but his performances are sometimes not ideal, but often decent and as such we should "cut him some slack" as a default position.

The point about other players being better I stand by, videos or highlights of LB x, y or z do not show the warts and all we see frequently with Ben's performances.

 

Regarding Ricardo. Too good, just too damn good - can never be negative to Claude for this alone. A player at such a high level and I concur, how he is not first choice RB for Portugal is bizarre, maybe it is a personal preference, stylistic thing from their manager(s) :dunno:

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1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

:rolleyes:

How many will turn around and say good he is overrated and we are better off without him? Then 2 / 3 years down the line will change their opinion? It's ridiculous. 

 

Same as Maguire. Yes we got the money that we wanted and that's fine but he has massively improved a rival. I'm not saying it was him alonne but they conceded 18 less goals and kept 6 more clean sheets than the season before. We massively shafted ourselves from getting in the champs league but we did strengthen the team that pipped us there is no question about it. 

 

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43 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

Name a better English left back? He deserves his place in the England team. 

 

 

49 minutes ago, leicesterseddon said:

The fact he’s in the England team says more about the England team than Ben Chilwell.

 

No doubt he is probably the best option. But I agree that doesn't really mean much in terms of judging ability. Christ, we play Jordan pickford in goal. The England team is hardly a measure of whether a player is world class. But it probably does mean we can charge a stupid fee.

 

I think the question here has to be, would we sell chilwell and replace him with a cheaper (perhaps worse lb) in order to fund a really top class winger. I certainly would given how the goals, and even chances, started to dry up.

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3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Soyuncu is an undisputed improvement on Maguire and we made about 40-50m net profit out of the switch. 

 

And to be honest, I'm not even sure we improved a rival when you look outside of the simplicity of "they got a new defender." Think about what chasing Maguire all window and lumping 80m on him did for them. They made almost no other decent improvements and were largely shit all year whilst we got to sign Tielemans and Perez who were instrumental in our charge up the league early season. 

 

We had their pants down and, without COVID, would have comfortably beaten them to the Champions League. Even with it we should have really.

 

If they blow 80m again on Chilwell, who is barely any upgrade on Shaw, and as a result they don't do much other transfer business while we spend that cash bringing in more solid parts to the squad, which of the two of us advances more?

 

Anyway, the part I was eye rolling at was the rubbish about not "deserving" Chilwell. Give over. He's hardly some unappreciated world class talent. He's a fast and athletic wing back with a good motor who can neither cross nor has any brilliant defensive positioning. He's a decidedly average player whose value is grossly inflated by his nationality and age. 

 

I don't hate him, I don't think he's completely shit, I'd be happy if he stayed, the more academy graduates in our side the better. But if you wouldn't personally drive him to Manchester for anything north of 60 then you're the oddity, not all of our evil, mean, nasty fans that don't appreciate poor Benjamin.

Thanks. You saved me the effort of writing much the same.

 

Just to illustrate how little Maguire improved Man Utd, you only have to look at where they were before they bought Fernandes and saved themselves. They were on course for a truly shite season before January.

 

I'd also add that if Chilwell thinks Leicester fans are mean, or anyone else thinks we don't deserve him, then they're in for a shock if/when he moves to Chelsea or Man Utd. Do they think their standards are lower than ours?

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22 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Soyuncu is an undisputed improvement on Maguire and we made about 40-50m net profit out of the switch. 

 

And to be honest, I'm not even sure we improved a rival when you look outside of the simplicity of "they got a new defender." Think about what chasing Maguire all window and lumping 80m on him did for them. They made almost no other decent improvements and were largely shit all year whilst we got to sign Tielemans and Perez who were instrumental in our charge up the league early season. 

 

We had their pants down and, without COVID, would have comfortably beaten them to the Champions League. Even with it we should have really.

 

If they blow 80m again on Chilwell, who is barely any upgrade on Shaw, and as a result they don't do much other transfer business while we spend that cash bringing in more solid parts to the squad, which of the two of us advances more?

 

Anyway, the part I was eye rolling at was the rubbish about not "deserving" Chilwell. Give over. He's hardly some unappreciated world class talent. He's a fast and athletic wing back with a good motor who can neither cross nor has any brilliant defensive positioning.  He doesn't attack well enough to be a winger or defend well enough to be a quality full back. He's a decidedly average player whose value is grossly inflated by his nationality and age. 

 

I don't hate him, I don't think he's completely shit, I'd be happy if he stayed, the more academy graduates in our side the better. But if you wouldn't personally drive him to Manchester for anything north of 60 then you're the oddity, not all of our evil, mean, nasty fans that don't appreciate poor Benjamin. 

 

Disagree on chilwell, he is a world class talent, he's absolutely excellent on his day, his biggest problem is his decision making, something that can be improved on. Imo he has everything in his locker to be as good as robertson. He isnt the same as maguire where you can get an easy improvement.

Edited by honeybradger
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26 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Soyuncu is an undisputed improvement on Maguire and we made about 40-50m net profit out of the switch. 

 

And to be honest, I'm not even sure we improved a rival when you look outside of the simplicity of "they got a new defender." Think about what chasing Maguire all window and lumping 80m on him did for them. They made almost no other decent improvements and were largely shit all year whilst we got to sign Tielemans and Perez who were instrumental in our charge up the league early season. 

 

We had their pants down and, without COVID, would have comfortably beaten them to the Champions League. Even with it we should have really.

 

If they blow 80m again on Chilwell, who is barely any upgrade on Shaw, and as a result they don't do much other transfer business while we spend that cash bringing in more solid parts to the squad, which of the two of us advances more?

 

Anyway, the part I was eye rolling at was the rubbish about not "deserving" Chilwell. Give over. He's hardly some unappreciated world class talent. He's a fast and athletic wing back with a good motor who can neither cross nor has any brilliant defensive positioning.  He doesn't attack well enough to be a winger or defend well enough to be a quality full back. He's a decidedly average player whose value is grossly inflated by his nationality and age. 

 

I don't hate him, I don't think he's completely shit, I'd be happy if he stayed, the more academy graduates in our side the better. But if you wouldn't personally drive him to Manchester for anything north of 60 then you're the oddity, not all of our evil, mean, nasty fans that don't appreciate poor Benjamin. 

 

Not saying our defence hasn't improved Soyunchu imo is better than Maguire but to say he hasn't improved united isn't correct the stats are their in black and white they were where they were because they weren't creating / scoring enough and Bruno Fernandes and having Pogba back was massive for them. 

 

The lad has 3 or 4 years before he should come into his prime and he has only played 2 full seasons really. This was his first full where he was expected to attack probably more than defend with a rookie in Barnes in front of him for the majority of the season. 

 

For me we should keep him for at least another season of he doesn't push for a transfer. I agree if the price is right he goes but will be intresting to see who our next scapegoat will be. 

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11 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Disagree on chilwell, he is a world class talent, he's absolutely excellent on his day, his biggest problem is his decision making, something that can be improved on. Imo he has everything in his locker to be as good as robertson. He isnt the same as maguire where you can get an easy improvement.

We say this about gray as well though. Given the pitch time chilwell has had, I'm starting to wonder- if like gray- he has all the physical attributes and that's about it.

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4 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Disagree on chilwell, he is a world class talent, he's absolutely excellent on his day, his biggest problem is his decision making, something that can be improved on. Imo he has everything in his locker to be as good as robertson. He isnt the same as maguire where you can get an easy improvement.

I would argue that Maguire is still the best English CB . Lack of pace and slow recovery are certainly poor points. However he is intelligent and his spatial awareness is very good. He doesn't often make rash tackles and is superb in the air , something we have missed. No he wasn't worth 80 million but Man. Utd. are suckers for overpaying. They are even considering paying 100 million for a kid with a tatoo fetish.

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7 minutes ago, Fktf said:

We say this about gray as well though. Given the pitch time chilwell has had, I'm starting to wonder- if like gray- he has all the physical attributes and that's about it.

Him not turning around and passing back to soyuncu when we're in transition and taking his time/getting his head up before a cross seems like 2 things that can be fixed though. Defensive positioning is a harder one to improve but i dont actually think he's as bad as people say on here. 

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