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urban.spaceman

Ben Chilwell

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2 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

As I have said before I would be surprised if he goes , too expensive , we need academy players in the squad and some doubts about his defensive capabilities . He remains a very good footballer though and Rodgers has got to find the best way of using him. If we go 3-5-2 he will become our principal wide left attacker with Ricci doing the same on the right. I personally prefer that, but our back three have got to be totally comfortable with that and develop a proper understanding. If we play back four , we really need two holding midfielders (as Liverpool do) to cover any disposession upfield. He needs to be given the freedom to attack though , as does Ricci. Luke Thomas shows a lot of promise but he needs a season as bench player along with Justin before I would make him a starter.

I don't think he will go either. He is injured so probably would not pass a medical. I just said the same on another post about playing him 3-5-2.  He doesnt have the main responsibility for defending and can use his pace up and down the wing.  He actually started out as a central mid and loved playing there and ended up as a left back by default. I'm not sure he likes defending 😂 let the boy run and whip those crosses in. He needs to be more consistent with his crossing but that is easily coached.

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10 hours ago, Hales said:

I don't think he will go either. He is injured so probably would not pass a medical. I just said the same on another post about playing him 3-5-2.  He doesnt have the main responsibility for defending and can use his pace up and down the wing.  He actually started out as a central mid and loved playing there and ended up as a left back by default. I'm not sure he likes defending 😂 let the boy run and whip those crosses in. He needs to be more consistent with his crossing but that is easily coached.

If it was so easy to coach, he would have got it by now, even when he's in form it's an area of his game that is inconsistent. I think it would be a terrible idea to use wingbacks if one were to be Chilwell, teams would just drop back and give him space because they know he can't cross. He is great in a back 4 because (when in form, not playing through injury etc) he is very solid defensively and is a great progressor of the ball. But in terms of end product, which is a must with wingbacks, he is not suited to the position.

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On 05/08/2020 at 21:07, Jazzy_Jeff said:

I can see us getting £60m rising to £65m with addons. 
 

with the pandemic I don’t think as much money will be thrown about and Chelsea have spent a fair amount already.

..wasn't it rumoured that they have a £300m war chest!!!

 Stemming from their previous embargo and their sale of Eden Hazard.

  They are at present attempting to get the Havertz deal over the line and that will surely be above the £80m mark. Potentially Havertz will be one of the greats, only injury can prevent it.

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7 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:


According to the Premier League, Chilwell’s cross accuracy over 99 appearances rates at 18% (from 337 crosses).

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/13491/Ben-Chilwell/stats


Now according to this article, the Premier League in general is pretty poor in terms of cross completion when compared with the 5 top leagues - and perhaps puts Chilwell’s statistical output in a much better light.
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.transfermarkt.co.uk/best-cross-accuracy-only-three-premier-league-players-in-top-20-davies-13th/amp/news/359039

 

However, the importance of crossing in the game - especially in the Premier League - has been declining, as highlighted within this article.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/jan/21/andy-carroll-peter-crouch-chelsea-west-ham-united-stoke-city

 

It should also be considered that the make up of our forward line hasn’t exactly been one made for a typical full back cross. 

It takes two to make a successful cross, so naturally the type of players and numbers you have in the box at the point of delivery mark an important variable.

 

Additionally, given the position a full back has to come from in order to be in an advanced position to cross, defences will generally be more setup, ready to defend that aerial ball, making finding that pin point ball that much harder.

 

Therefore does Chilwell have an issue when it comes to crossing ability? 
 

Well, visually to fans, maybe? 
 

And that makes sense - as fans we watch our own team much more than others, providing a comparison deficit, and if a player is only ‘successful’ 1 in 5 times that won’t feel very good (and what fans will consider a successful cross will be narrower than the metrics statisticians  use).
 

But statistically, in comparison to the leagues performance it would appear he doesn’t. 
 

And just in case you wanted a couple of other interesting statistical comparisons.

 

Andy Robertson - arguably the best left back in the league last season - has a cross accuracy of 17%, albeit from significantly more attempts (634)
 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/10458/Andrew-Robertson/stats
 

Not good enough for you? 
 

Well why don’t we try our right full back position for comparison - one of our players of the season.

 

How does Ricardo’s crossing stats compare? 
 

Many might be surprised, but his completion percentage is actually lower than Chilwell’s at 15% from 164 attempts.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/5343/Ricardo-Pereira/stats

 

So, given all this statistical fun, what can we as fans possibly learn from this? 
 

Well maybe, just maybe, Chilwell is a much better player than we give him credit for - and that we should be careful when judging ability on an area of the game in which failure is more common than success. 
 

 

I don't give a sh** about crossing, Vardy is 5'9" lol

And Ricardo lower stat at crossing shows exactly why it's not what we need from a full back

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1 minute ago, GDesign_JRC said:

I don't give a sh** about crossing, Vardy is 5'9" lol

And Ricardo lower stat at crossing shows exactly why it's not what we need from a full back


Ok...

 

... but this response wasn’t for you personally, hence me quoting who I was replying to? 
 

And within the extensive reply, I do highlight that our forward line isn’t exactly geared towards cross success and the leagues declining trend in terms of reliance on the cross as a route to goals. 
 

But anyway, what area do you ‘give a shit about‘ given you put it so nicely? 
 

Maybe I can look up some further relevant statistics for you before I go to work?  

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20 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:


According to the Premier League, Chilwell’s cross accuracy over 99 appearances rates at 18% (from 337 crosses).

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/13491/Ben-Chilwell/stats


Now according to this article, the Premier League in general is pretty poor in terms of cross completion when compared with the 5 top leagues - and perhaps puts Chilwell’s statistical output in a much better light.
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.transfermarkt.co.uk/best-cross-accuracy-only-three-premier-league-players-in-top-20-davies-13th/amp/news/359039

 

However, the importance of crossing in the game - especially in the Premier League - has been declining, as highlighted within this article.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/jan/21/andy-carroll-peter-crouch-chelsea-west-ham-united-stoke-city

 

It should also be considered that the make up of our forward line hasn’t exactly been one made for a typical full back cross. 

It takes two to make a successful cross, so naturally the type of players and numbers you have in the box at the point of delivery mark an important variable.

 

Additionally, given the position a full back has to come from in order to be in an advanced position to cross, defences will generally be more setup, ready to defend that aerial ball, making finding that pin point ball that much harder.

 

Therefore does Chilwell have an issue when it comes to crossing ability? 
 

Well, visually to fans, maybe? 
 

And that makes sense - as fans we watch our own team much more than others, providing a comparison deficit, and if a player is only ‘successful’ 1 in 5 times that won’t feel very good (and what fans will consider a successful cross will be narrower than the metrics statisticians  use).
 

But statistically, in comparison to the leagues performance it would appear he doesn’t. 
 

And just in case you wanted a couple of other interesting statistical comparisons.

 

Andy Robertson - arguably the best left back in the league last season - has a cross accuracy of 17%, albeit from significantly more attempts (634)
 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/10458/Andrew-Robertson/stats
 

Not good enough for you? 
 

Well why don’t we try our right full back position for comparison - one of our players of the season.

 

How does Ricardo’s crossing stats compare? 
 

Many might be surprised, but his completion percentage is actually lower than Chilwell’s at 15% from 164 attempts.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/5343/Ricardo-Pereira/stats

 

So, given all this statistical fun, what can we as fans possibly learn from this? 
 

Well maybe, just maybe, Chilwell is a much better player than we give him credit for - and that we should be careful when judging ability on an area of the game in which failure is more common than success. 
 

 

Thanks for the info. Just for the record i do not think he is poor at crossing just maybe a little inconsistent at times. I just watched some england highlights and he was immense! He took the corners and free kicks too and every one was on point! I agree that he is better than many give him credit for.

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2 minutes ago, Hales said:

Thanks for the info. Just for the record i do not think he is poor at crossing just maybe a little inconsistent at times. I just watched some england highlights and he was immense! He took the corners and free kicks too and every one was on point! I agree that he is better than many give him credit for.


Interesting - I expect there are some subtle reasons for the difference. 
 

One I would point to would be that at international level, squads have less time to prepare things like defensive positioning and phase of game.

 

That no doubt equates to defences in general allowing a little more time and space in key areas (think how crap England have been defending set pieces for years). 

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Guest An Sionnach
6 minutes ago, Hales said:

Thanks for the info. Just for the record i do not think he is poor at crossing just maybe a little inconsistent at times. I just watched some england highlights and he was immense! He took the corners and free kicks too and every one was on point! I agree that he is better than many give him credit for.

Crossing to Harry is likely to get better results than Jamie , he is nearly six inches taller. With us attacking the line and pulling back low crosses is going to be more likely to cause problems. Can Ben do that? He has the pace but perhaps lacks the close control.If we sign or play a striker like Kane then his higher crosses would likely be more effective.

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Chilwell's crossing - like everything about his game - is vastly underrated by the bulk of LCFC fans who seem to hate his game to an irrational degree.  His crossing is inconsistent to be sure, but no worse than average - and he's actually quite good on set pieces. 

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10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

If crossing isn't important, being able to make the right passes in the final 3rd is and he is equally as poor at that. 

 

On the counter attack there are few as good as him at getting the ball and driving up the pitch, that's why its so frustrating to see him waste it when he gets there.

I was really impressed with Thomas doing some square passes to Nacho or a midfielder in the final third or cutting inside for a better passing opportunity.

 

I do try to remember Ben is only 23 but he's had 2 years at the top level now. You'd hope that would see him start to improve that side of his game. 

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1 hour ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:


According to the Premier League, Chilwell’s cross accuracy over 99 appearances rates at 18% (from 337 crosses).

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/13491/Ben-Chilwell/stats


Now according to this article, the Premier League in general is pretty poor in terms of cross completion when compared with the 5 top leagues - and perhaps puts Chilwell’s statistical output in a much better light.
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.transfermarkt.co.uk/best-cross-accuracy-only-three-premier-league-players-in-top-20-davies-13th/amp/news/359039

 

However, the importance of crossing in the game - especially in the Premier League - has been declining, as highlighted within this article.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/jan/21/andy-carroll-peter-crouch-chelsea-west-ham-united-stoke-city

 

It should also be considered that the make up of our forward line hasn’t exactly been one made for a typical full back cross. 

It takes two to make a successful cross, so naturally the type of players and numbers you have in the box at the point of delivery mark an important variable.

 

Additionally, given the position a full back has to come from in order to be in an advanced position to cross, defences will generally be more setup, ready to defend that aerial ball, making finding that pin point ball that much harder.

 

Therefore does Chilwell have an issue when it comes to crossing ability? 
 

Well, visually to fans, maybe? 
 

And that makes sense - as fans we watch our own team much more than others, providing a comparison deficit, and if a player is only ‘successful’ 1 in 5 times that won’t feel very good (and what fans will consider a successful cross will be narrower than the metrics statisticians  use).
 

But statistically, in comparison to the leagues performance it would appear he doesn’t. 
 

And just in case you wanted a couple of other interesting statistical comparisons.

 

Andy Robertson - arguably the best left back in the league last season - has a cross accuracy of 17%, albeit from significantly more attempts (634)
 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/10458/Andrew-Robertson/stats
 

Not good enough for you? 
 

Well why don’t we try our right full back position for comparison - one of our players of the season.

 

How does Ricardo’s crossing stats compare? 
 

Many might be surprised, but his completion percentage is actually lower than Chilwell’s at 15% from 164 attempts.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/5343/Ricardo-Pereira/stats

 

So, given all this statistical fun, what can we as fans possibly learn from this? 
 

Well maybe, just maybe, Chilwell is a much better player than we give him credit for - and that we should be careful when judging ability on an area of the game in which failure is more common than success. 
 

 

Would like to start off by saying that it's a good post and it's important to remember that very few teams nowadays have players that can consistently cross the ball "well". I would like to make some counter-arguments though.

 

Cross completion is a bit of a misleading stat. Cedric Soares' cross completion has traditionally been great season to season, but invariably he has gotten low amounts of assists. Other factors determine what makes a crosser of the ball "good" or not. Power (the velocity of the ball), predictability (how caught off the goalkeeper and defenders are/will be), ambition (who they cross the ball to, and where to/from on the pitch) and many other factors all come into play. The eye test is important in determining how good a cross actually is.

 

Also, the comparison with Ricardo is a bit moot. Of Ricardo's offensive dimension of play, crossing is only a small facet. His dynamism on the ball, interplay with other attackers, cut-backs, threat on goal, are all more important to our game than his crossing. Chilwell, on the other hand, usually resorts to crossing or passing backward when in doubt, without any of these other things coming into his game as much at all.

 

Lastly, I would like to point to the admittedly miniscule sample size of performances Luke Thomas put in for us. One can see the difference in crossing quality (I'm purely getting into that, not anything else in either player's game) immediately. Thomas clearly has a destination in mind for the ball, even when it is not a successful attempt. He looks up. Watching Chilwell week in, week out, he does similar things far, far less often.

 

Chilwell is a great player, but the offensive sphere of his game is sorely limited. I do think he is still 2nd or 3rd best left back in the league, because of his defensive quality, athleticism, and progression of the ball, but I do not believe he is particularly great as an option in the attack.

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2 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:


According to the Premier League, Chilwell’s cross accuracy over 99 appearances rates at 18% (from 337 crosses).

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/13491/Ben-Chilwell/stats


Now according to this article, the Premier League in general is pretty poor in terms of cross completion when compared with the 5 top leagues - and perhaps puts Chilwell’s statistical output in a much better light.
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.transfermarkt.co.uk/best-cross-accuracy-only-three-premier-league-players-in-top-20-davies-13th/amp/news/359039

 

However, the importance of crossing in the game - especially in the Premier League - has been declining, as highlighted within this article.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/jan/21/andy-carroll-peter-crouch-chelsea-west-ham-united-stoke-city

 

It should also be considered that the make up of our forward line hasn’t exactly been one made for a typical full back cross. 

It takes two to make a successful cross, so naturally the type of players and numbers you have in the box at the point of delivery mark an important variable.

 

Additionally, given the position a full back has to come from in order to be in an advanced position to cross, defences will generally be more setup, ready to defend that aerial ball, making finding that pin point ball that much harder.

 

Therefore does Chilwell have an issue when it comes to crossing ability? 
 

Well, visually to fans, maybe? 
 

And that makes sense - as fans we watch our own team much more than others, providing a comparison deficit, and if a player is only ‘successful’ 1 in 5 times that won’t feel very good (and what fans will consider a successful cross will be narrower than the metrics statisticians  use).
 

But statistically, in comparison to the leagues performance it would appear he doesn’t. 
 

And just in case you wanted a couple of other interesting statistical comparisons.

 

Andy Robertson - arguably the best left back in the league last season - has a cross accuracy of 17%, albeit from significantly more attempts (634)
 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/10458/Andrew-Robertson/stats
 

Not good enough for you? 
 

Well why don’t we try our right full back position for comparison - one of our players of the season.

 

How does Ricardo’s crossing stats compare? 
 

Many might be surprised, but his completion percentage is actually lower than Chilwell’s at 15% from 164 attempts.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/5343/Ricardo-Pereira/stats

 

So, given all this statistical fun, what can we as fans possibly learn from this? 
 

Well maybe, just maybe, Chilwell is a much better player than we give him credit for - and that we should be careful when judging ability on an area of the game in which failure is more common than success. 
 

 

Who said people thought ricardo was good at crossing? I thought it was a common opinion that he was poor at crossing but his dribbling/defensive work makes up for that.

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7 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:


Ok...

 

... but this response wasn’t for you personally, hence me quoting who I was replying to? 
 

And within the extensive reply, I do highlight that our forward line isn’t exactly geared towards cross success and the leagues declining trend in terms of reliance on the cross as a route to goals. 
 

But anyway, what area do you ‘give a shit about‘ given you put it so nicely? 
 

Maybe I can look up some further relevant statistics for you before I go to work?  

Sorry about my response, I forgot to read what you were quoting and it had handful information, thanks for that actually.

About the relevant statistics: I'd look at tackles won, interceptions, succesful pressures, succesful dribbles, passes into final third and progressive distance. 

Again, sorry for my words, I didn't mean to disrespect your work put into this and I'm sorry I did.

 

Edit: I searched a comparation and Chilwell isn't that bad, maybe we should not sellimage.thumb.png.99030f4c830f3a182e168823a195c56e.png

Edited by GDesign_JRC
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7 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:


Ok...

 

... but this response wasn’t for you personally, hence me quoting who I was replying to? 
 

And within the extensive reply, I do highlight that our forward line isn’t exactly geared towards cross success and the leagues declining trend in terms of reliance on the cross as a route to goals. 
 

But anyway, what area do you ‘give a shit about‘ given you put it so nicely? 
 

Maybe I can look up some further relevant statistics for you before I go to work?  

Your post was an excellent thoughtful one.  I didn't give a sh#t about the limited response.

 

I think there are good reasons Chilwell is the England left back and is sought after by other clubs.  Your post reinforces that he is an effective player.  

 

 

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