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urban.spaceman

Ben Chilwell

By urban.spaceman, in Transfer Talk

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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted

Here we go ...  last minute sale after they come up with an offer we have told them we will accept (and Chilwell has also been assured we will let him go if we get that amount) ...    minutes before the deadline we spend the money to replace him and maybe get a few other new ones ...   selling clubs see what we have just got and push the price up ...   we are over a barrel and have to decide on giving away most of what we have just received or have a weakened squad just when we need the opposite ...  opposition gets their man, big fanfare, good for morale ...   we are left thrashing around in the sh1t ...   we pull their pants down and then have ours pulled down too.  :(

 

Personally ...  I'd say that's the price if we do intend to sell and the window is open for 7 days ...   or fvck off.   And Chilwell is told too.

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Harry96

Harry96

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I mean that's just plainly absurd. 

 

Even if you think he's got the potential to be, he clearly isn't right now. 

 

This sort of hyperbole is exactly the problem on here. He's either dogshit Sunday league or he's "a world class talent." Both sides are nuts. 

 

@goose2010 and who do you expect us to sell to if not a divisional rival? Chilwell's value is literally halved if not more to a club that isn't English. Besides, few clubs in the world have the kind of money we can get off Premier league teams.

 

Our business model depends on selling to them. 

Spot on as per finners 

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The_77

The_77

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Soyuncu is an undisputed improvement on Maguire and we made about 40-50m net profit out of the switch. 

 

And to be honest, I'm not even sure we improved a rival when you look outside of the simplicity of "they got a new defender." Think about what chasing Maguire all window and lumping 80m on him did for them. They made almost no other decent improvements and were largely shit all year whilst we got to sign Tielemans and Perez who were instrumental in our charge up the league early season. 

 

We had their pants down and, without COVID, would have comfortably beaten them to the Champions League. Even with it we should have really.

 

If they blow 80m again on Chilwell, who is barely any upgrade on Shaw, and as a result they don't do much other transfer business while we spend that cash bringing in more solid parts to the squad, which of the two of us advances more?

 

Anyway, the part I was eye rolling at was the rubbish about not "deserving" Chilwell. Give over. He's hardly some unappreciated world class talent. He's a fast and athletic wing back with a good motor who can neither cross nor has any brilliant defensive positioning.  He doesn't attack well enough to be a winger or defend well enough to be a quality full back. He's a decidedly average player whose value is grossly inflated by his nationality and age. 

 

I don't hate him, I don't think he's completely shit, I'd be happy if he stayed, the more academy graduates in our side the better. But if you wouldn't personally drive him to Manchester for anything north of 60 then you're the oddity, not all of our evil, mean, nasty fans that don't appreciate poor Benjamin. 

 

I’m not saying we didn’t upgrade with Soyuncu, but some balance is needed here.
 

In the first game against United, Soyuncu gave up a penalty and had a poor game while Maguire bossed it. 
 

in the second, Soyuncu was suspended while Maguire’s United team won the game to clinch a Champions League spot. 

 

That net profit number could shrink by quite a lot when factoring the potential revenue each club pulls after runs in their respective European competitions next year. 

Edited by The_77
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surrifox

surrifox

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

So, you wouldn't accept a bid of £80m for Chilwell just because clubs will overcharge us for a replacement? I can't believe this. If someone offers you £80m for Chilwell, you try your hardest to keep a straight face and snatch their hands off. There is no other sane option.

And you ask for most of it in cash or agreed instalments not linked to playing success or winning the PL or CL

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murphy

murphy

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

More importantly we need to secure Luke Thomas on a new contract and then decide whether to flog or keep Chilwell.

I don't know what to make of Thomas.

 

Is he really an exciting talent or a kid that stepped up and had a couple of good games?

 

Perhaps any of those that follow the U23s can answer that?

 

The thing is I knew about Chilwell a long time before he made it to the first team, he was always earmarked to be a top player.  I didn't know anything about Thomas

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Raw Dykes

Raw Dykes

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

You've obviously not read anything apart from that one post that I've said. I have said the complete opposite. 

Well, forgive me for thinking you hadn't said the complete opposite elsewhere. I was responding to your comment that said you wouldn't sell him this year and gave a reason against selling for £80m.

 

Do you not think it's a bit risky to turn down an offer on the assumption that you can just cash in to the same amount next year? There's only one or two clubs who have the spending power and want/need for English players who would ever stump up an offer like that, and they could both be set for left-backs in a year's time. We rely on occassionally selling a player at a high price to reinvest across the squad. Add to that the economic crash and uncertainty in the transfer market (what sort of money will be thrown around next year? It's anybody's guess), and I think it's fair to say you'd have to be crazy to refuse an offer like that.

 

Even if we do get priced out of the market as a result, I think it's the only sensible option. At the very worst, we'd have Justin, Thomas and Fuchs as options at LB, an extra £80m in the bank, and we can wait a window or two for a replacement. It's not ideal, but that sort of money allows us to do so much. I'm certain we could find a player of roughly BC's ability for a lot less than £80m. Or someone slightly worse, but also strengthen another position with change to spare.

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Haywood_6

Haywood_6

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What I like about Thomas was his eye for a pass and intelligence on the ball, similar to Fuchs in some ways. When he's out of possession he's working hard and getting stuck in. Yes he's inexperienced, but there's lots of potential there.

 

Chilwell's strength is he's quick and able covers a lot of ground and not get tired. But often lets us down with his end product. 

 

I would be surprised if anyone pays anywhere near £80 million, but if they do, sell.

 

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goose2010

goose2010

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

Well, forgive me for thinking you hadn't said the complete opposite elsewhere. I was responding to your comment that said you wouldn't sell him this year and gave a reason against selling for £80m.

 

Do you not think it's a bit risky to turn down an offer on the assumption that you can just cash in to the same amount next year? There's only one or two clubs who have the spending power and want/need for English players who would ever stump up an offer like that, and they could both be set for left-backs in a year's time. We rely on occassionally selling a player at a high price to reinvest across the squad. Add to that the economic crash and uncertainty in the transfer market (what sort of money will be thrown around next year? It's anybody's guess), and I think it's fair to say you'd have to be crazy to refuse an offer like that.

 

Even if we do get priced out of the market as a result, I think it's the only sensible option. At the very worst, we'd have Justin, Thomas and Fuchs as options at LB, an extra £80m in the bank, and we can wait a window or two for a replacement. It's not ideal, but that sort of money allows us to do so much. I'm certain we could find a player of roughly BC's ability for a lot less than £80m. Or someone slightly worse, but also strengthen another position with change to spare.

I said it would be tough to buy a replacement with 80mill sitting in the bank not that I wouldn't sell. I would sell him for 80mill but my original post today was in response to someone wanting to sell anything 40+ which would be mental. 

 

I would be massively surprised if the current economy will have any affect at all on top premier league clubs it never has before and the so call big clubs are richer than ever. 

 

His stock is only going to go up. He has little competition at left back for England and the national team 'should' only get better. 

 

I see little to no risk IF we don't need to sell in keeping him for another season. 

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turtmcfly

turtmcfly

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Disagree on chilwell, he is a world class talent, he's absolutely excellent on his day, his biggest problem is his decision making, something that can be improved on. Imo he has everything in his locker to be as good as robertson. He isnt the same as maguire where you can get an easy improvement.

 

1 hour ago, honeybradger said:

Him not turning around and passing back to soyuncu when we're in transition and taking his time/getting his head up before a cross seems like 2 things that can be fixed though. Defensive positioning is a harder one to improve but i dont actually think he's as bad as people say on here. 

 

It would seem you only need one cat in a sack.

 

There are two possible approaches for the 'don't think we should sell him' brigade;

 

   1. 'I do want to not sell him at any price. I mean that literally. Not a billion, not even a billion plus Andros Townsend'

   2. You are not a complete ****ing idiot like the people in 1. You can name a price (however outlandish) at which you concede we might just want to engage with a buyer

 

If someone says 'for xx we should sell him', whatever the number, at least they are being intellectually honest. Anyone who argues with them is only being intellectually honest (and more importantly, interesting) when they state which position above they hold.

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honeybradger

honeybradger

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34 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't know what to make of Thomas.

 

Is he really an exciting talent or a kid that stepped up and had a couple of good games?

 

Perhaps any of those that follow the U23s can answer that?

 

The thing is I knew about Chilwell a long time before he made it to the first team, he was always earmarked to be a top player.  I didn't know anything about Thomas

He was highly rated but not as highly as chilwell was. People thinking Thomas is an upgrade on chilwell based off just a few games is ridiculous, yes he's got a better final pass but he will have other shortcomings compared to chilwell. For example i watched a few u23 games and while thomas was generally excellent he made quite a few defensive errors under little pressure, which worries me if he was to become a first team starter next year.

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Raw Dykes

Raw Dykes

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3 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

He was highly rated but not as highly as chilwell was. People thinking Thomas is an upgrade on chilwell based off just a few games is ridiculous, yes he's got a better final pass but he will have other shortcomings compared to chilwell. For example i watched a few u23 games and while thomas was generally excellent he made quite a few defensive errors under little pressure, which worries me if he was to become a first team starter next year.

Has anyone said that?

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Raw Dykes

Raw Dykes

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Posted
Just now, honeybradger said:

Literally you

Yeah, I suspected that might have been aimed at me. Do you have trouble reading? I said, "I even think it can be argued that Thomas has a higher ceiling judging from the few 1st team apps he's had." That's verbatim. How is that me saying I think he's an upgrade? I said it could be debated that he has higher potential.

 

I agree that it would be ridiculous to say Thomas is an upgrade on Chilwell right now. That's why I did not say that. It's pointless having an argument with a strawman. Don't put words in my mouth.

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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

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11 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

Yeah, I suspected that might have been aimed at me. Do you have trouble reading? I said, "I even think it can be argued that Thomas has a higher ceiling judging from the few 1st team apps he's had." That's verbatim. How is that me saying I think he's an upgrade? I said it could be debated that he has higher potential.

 

I agree that it would be ridiculous to say Thomas is an upgrade on Chilwell right now. That's why I did not say that. It's pointless having an argument with a strawman. Don't put words in my mouth.

Media 101  :ph34r:

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Nicolo Barella

Nicolo Barella

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Sly said:

He’s not at Ricardos level now. However he’s still young. 
 

I’m still unsure how Ricardo isn’t playing for Portugal on a regular basis.

If he recovers from his injury well, he will. Before his opposition was Cancelo and Semedo, now Cancelo hardly plays other than at left back and Ricardo started to push Semedo out anyway. 

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honeybradger

honeybradger

Posted
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

Yeah, I suspected that might have been aimed at me. Do you have trouble reading? I said, "I even think it can be argued that Thomas has a higher ceiling judging from the few 1st team apps he's had." That's verbatim. How is that me saying I think he's an upgrade? I said it could be debated that he has higher potential.

 

I agree that it would be ridiculous to say Thomas is an upgrade on Chilwell right now. That's why I did not say that. It's pointless having an argument with a strawman. Don't put words in my mouth.

Insinuating that thomas could have a higher potential than chilwell off of 3 games is still ridiculous. Let's be honest here you wouldnt be saying stuff like that if you didnt think there was any truth to it and you're clearly set on us selling chilwell, your opinion is quite obvious even if you're not willing to fully commit to it. 'Could be debated' is generally what people say when they want to state their actual opinion without being made fun of.

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Cecchini1976

Cecchini1976

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

I dont remember Chilwell ever really being talked about as an exciting prospect until our first year in the Prem, before that he was just your regular u18 player then all of a sudden he seemed to come into the u23/first team from nowhere and really kick on. 

 

By the way, thats not me saying we need to play thomas just remember no one really hyped Chilwell up until 2015. (Im in the keep BC camp if possible but sell at anything above £70m btw)

 

 

Chilwell was always a top prospect, not just from 2015, they had massive hopes for him in the academy through all age groups. 

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Nicolo Barella

Nicolo Barella

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1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

Insinuating that thomas could have a higher potential than chilwell off of 3 games is still ridiculous. Let's be honest here you wouldnt be saying stuff like that if you didnt think there was any truth to it and you're clearly set on us selling chilwell, your opinion is quite obvious even if you're not willing to fully commit to it.

He literally said that the argument could be made, not even that he thought it should be made. And I don't think it's as ridiculous as you're saying, his crossing is truly fantastic, if the rest of his game can develop as well as that there's no question he would be one of the best in the league.

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Raw Dykes

Raw Dykes

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

Insinuating that thomas could have a higher potential than chilwell off of 3 games is still ridiculous. Let's be honest here you wouldnt be saying stuff like that if you didnt think there was any truth to it and you're clearly set on us selling chilwell, your opinion is quite obvious even if you're not willing to fully commit to it.

Unbelievable!

 

I guess you know what I think better than I do. Yes, let's be honest - it is very clear that I think Thomas is currently better than Chilwell, and I'm just too cowardly to admit it./s

 

Would you like to tell me what I think about anything else? Maybe my opinion on your good self?

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