Ben Chilwell

[Dahnsouff]

In this case I would be a little concerned, as I do not feel it is all about the Benjamin's (chuckle). Sure everyone's a grown up professional, but his relationship with Maddison is tight it seems and could it have negative ramifications for James?

[Chrysalis]

On 16/05/2020 at 21:43, Walkers said:

This isn't 15 years ago.. would you not be a little underwhelmed if Justin was our first choice LB next season?

Based on his performances? no.

 

I have an unpopular opinion that when chilwell replaced fuchs it was a downgrade, given fuchs age now, not so sure about that anymore, but it was the case when it happened.

 

To me chilwell's only strength is his energy to run forward, he is often seen as the weak link in our defense so opposing teams pick on his side of the pitch, and when he isnt making those runs forward he doesnt offer anything, and he stopped doing those runs for some reason, then was that game where he did 40 or so misplaced passes in one game? I am never one for abusing players and I think abuse during games should stop, but if anyone wants a reason why fans might be picking on chilwell it will be the performances.

 

I dont think we should sell him for a low price though, but if decent money is on offer, it wouldnt be the worst transaction we have done.  Also i would rather lose chillwell vs ricardo, maddison, caglar.

[Chrysalis]

On 19/05/2020 at 10:25, coolhandfox said:

It not my conjecture, as I've not sent ages looking at both Leicester and Chelsea financial reports, but if you follow @SwissRamble om twitter, his a blogger who focuses on club financial reports.

 

Why would he want to make less from match day revenue?   

 

Wow we really are competing where we shouldnt be looking at those figures.

 

Why is our matchday revenue so low compared to chelsea though? they dont have 4x the capacity.

[Chrysalis]

On 22/05/2020 at 18:54, Hales said:

Well said! It drives me insane! The lad has clearly suffered hearing it all as well and it has knocked his confidence and they still have a go at him. I hope he stays I really do and proves them all wrong.  The abuse he receives from our own fans is disgusting!

We will sell someone for a big fee, so if it isnt chilwell pick someone else instead, who in our team with value you consider a lower impact loss? I am curious.

 

However good you think he is is, he isnt on the level of cagnar, maddison and ricardo.  For all of barnes problems, I also think barnes has a lot more potential and natural skill than chilwell as well, so wouldnt want us to lose barnes either.  The fact I want us to keep barnes shows I think on a logical level instead of getting emotionally attached to players that I may have watched progress through the ranks, as I criticised barnes earlier in the season for his flaws, but yet I want us to keep him.  So i dont see who else we can sell that is as easily replaceable, it all points to chilwell, I would be gobsmacked if we went through this transfer window with no big value sale.

 

The reasons for keeping chilwell seem to be mostly down to "potential" and age, we wont have chillwell during his prime years so in that respect the here and now is more important than potential.  He wont be an andy king spending his career here. chilwell feels like one of those players who is played because of his financial value, since the club has a business policy of buying young then selling later for profit.  I respect not everyone will agree with me, but when I watch us play it does feel like chilwell gets carried by the rest of the team.  As has been said so many times he kicks it out of play, passes to opposing player, doesnt close down his man and so on.  He is one of the worst crossers of the ball I have seen, perhaps only slightly better than simpson, but simpson was an extremely good defender to make up for it.

 

JJ whilst nothing special, I feel improved on chilwell, because he does the basics better, and sometimes thats enough.

 

Also players in the england squad tend to have their minds elsewhere, its a camp ripe for turning players heads, this may well be a factor in why his performances for us dropped, and I think thats more likely than fans abuse.  May well be a future issue with maddison as he has his foot in the door for england now.

Edited 2 June 2020 by Chrysalis

[Chrysalis]

On 22/05/2020 at 21:03, Hales said:

So I guess Pep, Lampard, Southgate, Rodgers etc... are all wrong about him? Yes he has had poor form recently but that has not been the case previously. He has been brilliant for us and England. Too sell him is madness.  We have an exciting young team and to sell a regular first team member is crazy. We need to build on this squad not sell it off.  He is young and will keep improving. Brendan can certainly get the best out of him. He also seems to love his teammates and seems very popular with them.  I guess our "fans" know best though and will keep calling him useless! You couldn't blame him for wanting to go. Jeeez! 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

For southgate remember he can only pick from english players.

 

For the other managers they have an english quota to fill. "The rule in turn capped a maximum of 17 foreigners for the club in UEFA competitions."

 

You do seem a bit obsessed with age as if players been young is special in some way.

 

See my previous post, if he plays better for england than us it suggests he doesnt want to play for us anymore.  Which would give credibility to the rumour that started this thread.  Its really common for LCFC players that become first team england players to either leave the club or come close to leaving, their heads get turned.

Edited 2 June 2020 by Chrysalis

[Chrysalis]

On 23/05/2020 at 19:34, filbertway said:

I think if he had the passing, crossing and shooting ability of Fuchs, there'd genuinely be the best of the best after him.

 

He can be frustrating and if we did end up selling him for a chunk of money, I think we now seem to be back at a level recruitment-wise where we could replace him well.

 

I think it's a case of people not realising what they have until it's gone. This is a young lad who still has another few years before he even peaks. If he can keep improving on his position and technical aspect of his game, the sky is the limit for him.

 

We could be playing champions league football with 2 or 3 academy graduates starting games on merit and being key players. How mad is that?!

 

As I said all the arguments seem to be down to his age, potential and from academy.  

 

Things like performances and skill are been brushed aside, crazy.  Someone has even admitted he isnt at fuchs 2016 level yet yet thinks that doesnt matter because of the "potential".

 

What do you think will happen if he reaches fuchs level? he will be gone.

 

So if he cant pass at the level of fuchs, cant shoot at the level of fuchs, cant cross at the level of fuchs, cant defend at the level of fuchs, what is better about him aside from age and potential, what is it?

[Chrysalis]

On 26/05/2020 at 17:14, Paddy. said:

I love Fuchsy but I'm willing to bet that BC is slightly better than he was at 23. Fuchsy was on loan at Mainz at the time, made 31 appearances and didn't score, which suggests he wasn't the finished article at 23 either.

not relevant though as chilwell wont be our player at his peak.

 

what is relevant is fuchs performances for LCFC vs chill performances for LCFC.

 

even this season a 34 year old fuchs has been out performing chilwell.

 

you guys seem to be thinking football manager style where analysing players stats at specific age and grooming to be a star of the club at 28, but in the real world if the player becomes good, he wont be at the club anymore. even if chilwell doesnt come good, he will be sold regardless because of the market value english players hold.

Edited 2 June 2020 by Chrysalis

[Chrysalis]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

I absolutely love Chilwell and think he'll be England's leftback for the next 7/8 years.

 

But 85m is ridiculous. Very similar to Maguire, there gets to a point where he's just not worth keeping for that price.

 

Sell him and chuck a third of it at Benfica for Grimaldo. 

 

 

It is an eye opener that the majority thought 60m was a take it now fee for mahrez who is a true world class player, but chillwell should be kept if offered 60m.

 

if we really are been offered 85m for chilwell the club would be bonkers to not take it considering what they sold mahrez and maguire for who are both better players.

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

 

As I said all the arguments seem to be down to his age, potential and from academy.  

 

Things like performances and skill are been brushed aside, crazy.  Someone has even admitted he isnt at fuchs 2016 level yet yet thinks that doesnt matter because of the "potential".

 

What do you think will happen if he reaches fuchs level? he will be gone.

 

So if he cant pass at the level of fuchs, cant shoot at the level of fuchs, cant cross at the level of fuchs, cant defend at the level of fuchs, what is better about him aside from age and potential, what is it?

Bear in mind Fuchs at his peak had elite level technique. To not be at that level is not something to knock a player with.

 

His athletic ability suits us massively, he can get up and down the wing at some pace and generally carries the ball very well. Chillwell came on leaps and bounds after his first season. I think it's entirely likely that he can go up another level. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders and knows he needs to keep improving.

 

He's not irreplaceable by any stretch of the imagination, but he's not someone we should be looking to shift on for the sake of it. He's played the majority of the games for the team that sits third in the league and is only in his third full season at the top level. If we recieved ridiculous money I'm sure we're an appealing enough club to replace him. It's also worth bearing in mind that we need to have a certain amount of English players in the squad. So the more first team English players we can get in, the better for us.

[filbertway]

5 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

not relevant though as chilwell wont be our player at his peak.

 

what is relevant is fuchs performances for LCFC vs chill performances for LCFC.

 

even this season a 34 year old fuchs has been out performing chilwell.

 

you guys seem to be thinking football manager style where analysing players stats at specific age and grooming to be a star of the club at 28, but in the real world if the player becomes good, he wont be at the club anymore. even if chilwell doesnt come good, he will be sold regardless because of the market value english players hold.

HAHAHAHAHA!

 

So a player will move to a better club if they're good enough. Unless it's Chilwell, he's gone because he's got market value.

[Chrysalis]

So we agree on his one strength, his ability to carry the ball up the pitch, the problem is he isnt doing it anymore

 

Also is that worth 60m?

[Chrysalis]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

HAHAHAHAHA!

 

So a player will move to a better club if they're good enough. Unless it's Chilwell, he's gone because he's got market value.

No that applies to all of our players with value.

 

barnes, maddison, cagnar, ricardo, they will all be sold at some point. We are a selling club.

 

But those 4 in my opinion will be harder to replace, they all have more technical ability than chilwell, and offer more to the team.

Edited 2 June 2020 by Chrysalis

[UniFox21]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

not relevant though as chilwell wont be our player at his peak.

 

what is relevant is fuchs performances for LCFC vs chill performances for LCFC.

 

even this season a 34 year old fuchs has been out performing chilwell.

Chilwell is statistically one of best fullbacks in the league, yet you act like he's a blaring issue in our squad. Our fullback pairing is only beaten by the Liverpool pairing. 

[Chrysalis]

What statistics are you looking at? maybe its common for left backs to kick the ball out of play or to opposition so often.

 

I would love your opinion on who you think we should sell instead of Chilwell.

 

Or are you of the opinion the club will break trend and not sell a first team player?

Edited 2 June 2020 by Chrysalis

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

So we agree on his one strength, his ability to carry the ball up the pitch, the problem is he isnt doing it anymore

 

Also is that worth 60m?

It really was noticeable. Is it tactical coming from the management team or was he suffering from a lack of confidence?

 

I remember the FA Cup game against Birmingham he looked a hell of a lot more positive than he had done for a month or so. I think a lot of fans were hoping that he was returning back to his best, then obviously the season got suspended.

[Countryfox]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

In this case I would be a little concerned, as I do not feel it is all about the Benjamin's (chuckle). Sure everyone's a grown up professional, but his relationship with Maddison is tight it seems and could it have negative ramifications for James?

 

I thought about his relationship with Madders and Barnes too ...  but the way I see it is if he's happy to go then he's not bothered too much by it and so the others shouldn't be either.  I'm sure they will stay in touch and younger players would see that we do not hold players back when the get to the highest level. 

 

The fact he's an England player is neither here nor there ..  Maguire is too and do we miss him ...   

[Alf Bentley]

12 minutes ago, filbertway said:

It really was noticeable. Is it tactical coming from the management team or was he suffering from a lack of confidence?

 

I remember the FA Cup game against Birmingham he looked a hell of a lot more positive than he had done for a month or so. I think a lot of fans were hoping that he was returning back to his best, then obviously the season got suspended.

 

I think it was a temporary confidence issue.

 

Like you, I remember him seeming much more positive in a couple of games just before the lockdown. Let's hope he can carry that on despite the long break as he can be a big player for us at his best, disrupting opposing defences.

 

I didn't think that he stopped carrying the ball up the pitch. It was more that once he got in an advanced position, he shied away from taking on his man and potentially creating danger for the opposition.

He'd get 1-on-1 with an opposing right back in an advanced position with the opposing defence stretched.....and would end up playing a backwards/sideways pass.

 

I'm sure they're all under instructions not to give away possession cheaply, but he certainly didn't play like that so much until recent months - including under Brendan....which suggests to me that it was a confidence issue, not tactical.

Plus, Ricardo certainly bombed on when he had the opportunity.

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Wow we really are competing where we shouldnt be looking at those figures.

 

Why is our matchday revenue so low compared to chelsea though? they dont have 4x the capacity.

7500k more seats and general higher tickets prices, more corporate entertainment. restaurants etc London prices 

[Tielemans63]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

not relevant though as chilwell wont be our player at his peak.

 

what is relevant is fuchs performances for LCFC vs chill performances for LCFC.

 

even this season a 34 year old fuchs has been out performing chilwell.

 

you guys seem to be thinking football manager style where analysing players stats at specific age and grooming to be a star of the club at 28, but in the real world if the player becomes good, he wont be at the club anymore. even if chilwell doesnt come good, he will be sold regardless because of the market value english players hold.

Fuchs has not outperformed Chilwell, that's an absolute myth. If you can back that up with some stats then I'll accept I'm wrong.

 

I don't play Football Manager so i'm not sure what the relevance of that is. 

 

Also, you're saying that he'll get a good move for good money purely because he's English? 

 

 

[Fox in the North]

Can Chelsea actually buy players from other clubs for a change. In amongst their youth ranks there must be a player worth bringing through.

[Beechey]

4 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Wow we really are competing where we shouldnt be looking at those figures.

 

Why is our matchday revenue so low compared to chelsea though? they dont have 4x the capacity.

Their average ticket price is about twice that of ours, their stadium is about 25% larger, more room for hospitality etc.

To get anywhere near that level a significant stadium expansion is an absolute must.

[Chrysalis]

2 hours ago, Paddy. said:

Fuchs has not outperformed Chilwell, that's an absolute myth. If you can back that up with some stats then I'll accept I'm wrong.

 

I don't play Football Manager so i'm not sure what the relevance of that is. 

 

Also, you're saying that he'll get a good move for good money purely because he's English? 

 

 

English internationals tend to have a price premium yes.

[Chrysalis]

52 minutes ago, Beechey said:

Their average ticket price is about twice that of ours, their stadium is about 25% larger, more room for hospitality etc.

To get anywhere near that level a significant stadium expansion is an absolute must.

Ok so prices and higher hospitality thanks, I hope our expansion greatly enhances hospitality then, I dont think we can adjust pricing, we not a london club.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

8 hours ago, ealingfox said:

Surely if someone wants to pay £85m or thereabouts for Chilwell we would have to let them, whether we get CL or not? We'd be mad not to. Alright he's not half as bad as some make out but is he an £85m player? Not for me Clive.

 

Then again now Congerton is at the wheel inviting any changes to the team through recruitment is taking a huge risk.

 

Can't wait for us to sell Chilwell for that amount so that Congerton can begin work signing a load of tossers who'll inevitably be lining up for Galatasaray on loan in a few seasons. 

[lcfc sheff]

Sell Chilwell, sign Gosens; everyone wins!