The Politics Thread 2020

[StanSP]

 

 

[FoxesDeb]

5 hours ago, Bilo said:

The electorate don't really care 

 

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Beechey]

55 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

 

[Innovindil]

Think the new paint job looks alright tbf. Can see why they would want it done when you see how it looked before, ****ing hideous. 

 

[FoxesDeb]

10 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

 

There's nothing wrong with it, just another example of twitter hysteria for absolutely no reason whatsoever 

[Nicolo Barella]

As if they kicked out RLB for being anti-semetic. That article was literally backed up by Amnesty International.

[yorkie1999]

13 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Think the new paint job looks alright tbf. Can see why they would want it done when you see how it looked before, ****ing hideous. 

 

Why, the grey one says, i mean business, the holly jolly one says come fly with me.

[Dahnsouff]

Looks like car primer  

So maybe it was justified.

[urban.spaceman]

18 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

This is up to 12,000 so far 

[Ecdysiast]

5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

This is up to 12,000 so far 

That's probably the same 12000 thoughtful, learned individuals that managed to stab each other, defacate in the dunes, and piss in the sea at Bournmouth yesterday.....

[Ecdysiast]

15 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

There's nothing wrong with it, just another example of twitter hysteria for absolutely no reason whatsoever 

That's fine - who cares? Who looks that closely? But....it is still actually f'ing wrong. Led by donkeys

[Ecdysiast]

On 25/06/2020 at 19:40, Mike Oxlong said:

Spot on Jon

 

Apart from the government accepting that he acted unlawfully and Jenrick admitting to the appearance of bias he did absolutely nothing wrong 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/robert-jenrick-bias-tower-hamlets-westferry-printworks-richard-desmond-northern-shell-a9534941.html%3famp

 

 

 

Corrupt Cvnts the lot of them...

[Stadt]

10 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

As if they kicked out RLB for being anti-semetic. That article was literally backed up by Amnesty International.

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

14 minutes ago, Stadt said:

 

 

... this myth is brought to you by the same people who believe Jezbollah won a Nobel Peace Price....

[Alf Bentley]

Stephen Bush (New Statesman):

 

"It’s true to say that the world’s police forces share training and exchange techniques, and that holds true for the police in most nations. But it is not true to say that neck kneeling was taught by, or originates from, Israeli secret services.  It goes to the essence of many of Labour's long-running problems on this issue - why should Israel’s security services be treated as more responsible for the killing than those of the United Kingdom or France, or any of the countless forces that use aggressive restraint techniques? Why is Peake, a British actor, singling out the world’s only Jewish majority state as the point of origin for the killing of an African-American? Why not the United Kingdom - or why not simply the United States, where the killing took place? It's an example of an all-too-common pattern on the British left: of placing Israel at the heart of a global web of ills.  As I've written before, the true face of Labour's antisemitism problem is not people who have hatred in their hearts, but people who are either simply unable to see the problem when it is in front of them, or are unwilling to confront or condemn expressions of it when they see them".     As Bush implies, the mindset of the Hard Left is NOT one of racial hatred. There's something different going on. I'd argue that 2 key aspects of this are: - Narcissism: The likes of Corbyn want to feel that they are "good guys" who are on "the right team", with the correct views, fighting for righteous causes....so that they can feel good about themselves. - A black-and-white world view: certain groups are either "goodies" who can do no wrong (e.g. workers, public services, Irish nationalists, Palestinians) or "baddies" who can do no right (e.g. big business, Irish Unionists, Israel) (Obviously, the "goodies" do often do good stuff, but not all the time & the "baddies" do sometimes do bad stuff, but not all the time - life's more nuanced than that....but such complexities wouldn't feed the groupthink narcissism!)

[Nicolo Barella]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

 

 

It "was" though. The Independent cited it, how was she to know whether they were lying or not.

[Stadt]

Just now, Nicolo Barella said:

It "was" though. The Independent cited it, how was she to know whether they were lying or not.

Even if it “was” true, it’s still spurious to bring Israel into it in the first place. There’s a multitude of problems with IS policing but sharing training with Israel is a long, long way down the list.

 

Even if it occasionally frustrates Labour MPs holding back in explicitly criticising Israel it’s something you’d think they’d avoid. RLB claims it was because it was in support of Corbyn she called the actress a diamond you’d think she’d be hesitant to share something with a very tenuous link to US policing and Israeli training. The Stephen Bush article gets it spot on 

[Nicolo Barella]

47 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Even if it “was” true, it’s still spurious to bring Israel into it in the first place. There’s a multitude of problems with IS policing but sharing training with Israel is a long, long way down the list.

 

Even if it occasionally frustrates Labour MPs holding back in explicitly criticising Israel it’s something you’d think they’d avoid. RLB claims it was because it was in support of Corbyn she called the actress a diamond you’d think she’d be hesitant to share something with a very tenuous link to US policing and Israeli training. The Stephen Bush article gets it spot on 

In fairness it was literally the Independent, reporting on something very topical. And whilst the specific claim in the article is kinda weird (Police have been kneeling on necks without someone telling them how to do it), there's no question that there's been a lot of co-operation between the US and Israel over a lot of things over the past few decades, so if someone told me the Israeli secret service (literally the creme du la creme of citizen suppression) and the US police were exchanging notes, I would be entirely unsurprised, it's very believable.

[Stadt]

28 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

In fairness it was literally the Independent, reporting on something very topical. And whilst the specific claim in the article is kinda weird (Police have been kneeling on necks without someone telling them how to do it), there's no question that there's been a lot of co-operation between the US and Israel over a lot of things over the past few decades, so if someone told me the Israeli secret service (literally the creme du la creme of citizen suppression) and the US police were exchanging notes, I would be entirely unsurprised, it's very believable.

US policing is shite, no doubt about it but given how policing is federalised in the US I severely doubt Minnesota’s police and Derek Chauvin learned to kneel on detainee’s necks because Israel taught them to - US police training with Israel doesn’t mean they use exactly the same training doctrine, the same techniques and the same styles in every case. They’re not monolithic entities. The IDF and Israel have a track record of doing some awful things but in this case there’s a loose link at best. It’s like saying LCFC’s entire attacking play is influenced by Sheffield Wednesday because Vardy was at their academy, there’s a link between the two but it’s been overemphasised and conflated.

[Nicolo Barella]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

US policing is shite, no doubt about it but given how policing is federalised in the US I severely doubt Minnesota’s police and Derek Chauvin learned to kneel on detainee’s necks because Israel taught them to - US police training with Israel doesn’t mean they use exactly the same training doctrine, the same techniques and the same styles in every case. They’re not monolithic entities. The IDF and Israel have a track record of doing some awful things but in this case there’s a loose link at best. It’s like saying LCFC’s entire attacking play is influenced by Sheffield Wednesday because Vardy was at their academy, there’s a link between the two but it’s been overemphasised and conflated.

I agree with all that, just saying that the general premise of "exchanging notes" is in itself very plausible. Like you said though, I hardly think Chauvin learned how to kneel on people's necks from the Israelis.

[FoxesDeb]

9 hours ago, Ecdysiast said:

That's fine - who cares? Who looks that closely? But....it is still actually f'ing wrong. Led by donkeys

No it's not wrong at all, it's painted exactly as it should be

 

https://ukaviation.news/think-the-flag-is-backwards-on-the-raf-uk-voyager-youre-wrong/

[st albans fox]

4 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I agree with all that, just saying that the general premise of "exchanging notes" is in itself very plausible. Like you said though, I hardly think Chauvin learned how to kneel on people's necks from the Israelis.

Starmer’s motivation is proved by this thread in itself. The discussion taking place has basically established in the minds of the majority of those who don’t bother to investigate the news beyond hearing a few things (that’s an awful lot of people btw) that Israel is somehow linked to floyd’s murder.  That’s how it’s been for minority groups for centuries ......as referenced above, Peake didn’t choose any other police service around the world but Israel (and given how much we hear and see about Israeli security services /Palestinian protesters over the years, has anyone ever heard about or seen a photo of this technique being used?) 

 

it’s now going to be a widely held belief amongst a chunk of people out there that the Jews (not Israel because that’s how it also works) are somehow responsible for what happened in Minneapolis.....and next time a BLM protest march goes past an el al office or a synagogue, it’s more likely to get trashed because of it 

 

this is the drip drip drip AS stuff that starmer is trying to sort out. RLB’s decision not to take on the request of the leadership to explicitly make her position public re the article and Peake in particular, led to her sacking. Yes, Starmer probably took the opportunity but it was RLB that left the door ajar longer than was necessary ......

[the fox]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Starmer’s motivation is proved by this thread in itself. The discussion taking place has basically established in the minds of the majority of those who don’t bother to investigate the news beyond hearing a few things (that’s an awful lot of people btw) that Israel is somehow linked to floyd’s murder.  That’s how it’s been for minority groups for centuries ......as referenced above, Peake didn’t choose any other police service around the world but Israel (and given how much we hear and see about Israeli security services /Palestinian protesters over the years, has anyone ever heard about or seen a photo of this technique being used?) 

 

it’s now going to be a widely held belief amongst a chunk of people out there that the Jews (not Israel because that’s how it also works) are somehow responsible for what happened in Minneapolis.....and next time a BLM protest march goes past an el al office or a synagogue, it’s more likely to get trashed because of it 

 

this is the drip drip drip AS stuff that starmer is trying to sort out. RLB’s decision not to take on the request of the leadership to explicitly make her position public re the article and Peake in particular, led to her sacking. Yes, Starmer probably took the opportunity but it was RLB that left the door ajar longer than was necessary ......

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZPQ7_WWkAATegZ?format=jpg&name=900x900

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZPQ7_aWAAQdFA9?format=jpg&name=small

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZPQ7_VXsAIVSQ6?format=jpg&name=small

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 June 2020 by the fox

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, the fox said:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZPQ7_WWkAATegZ?format=jpg&name=900x900

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZPQ7_aWAAQdFA9?format=jpg&name=small

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZPQ7_VXsAIVSQ6?format=jpg&name=small

 

 

Is that actually the same technique?  It looks more like they’re kneeling on heads rather than the neck (before anyone replies I’m not justifying that either).  it wasn’t difficult  to find those photos - a google search reveals them but there aren’t the number I would expect to see if this was a widespread technique often employed. I can also find images on google for arrests being made with this technique in France, Belgium, Hong Kong and Germany ..... I’m sure there are more too ......

 

chauvin’s complete disregard for floyd’s life over a period of 8 minutes was more the issue than the neck restraint Technique used  .... 

 

and my post wasn’t intended to open up the Israeli /Palestinian discussion which will never lead to anything on any discussion platform apart from disagreements and ultimately the closure of the thread ...