The Politics Thread 2020

[urban.spaceman]

3 minutes ago, Beechey said:

Make Labour Electable Again!

MLEA doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

Make Anew Labour Electable?

 

Though that spells out MALE which is bound to wind up the right people.

[The Horse's Mouth]

That's my membership cancelled

[urban.spaceman]

Yup, the right people are absolutely fuming :

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sampson]

3 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Yup, the right people are absolutely fuming :

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're both right tbf. Not that they wouldn't be the first 2 people to jump on the sacking bandwagon for a more centrist Labour MP/Tory MP who did exactly the same (and doubtless have in the past). But that's politics I guess, Labour have to been seen to be trying to make a move back to the centre and into electable territory again.

[Jon the Hat]

33 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

She was thick as **** anyway.

mince

[Leicester_Loyal]

Keir Starmer is ticking all the right boxes for me, and I say that as someone who has voted Tory the past two elections.

[Jon the Hat]

27 minutes ago, Bilo said:

The electorate will compare Starmer's quick action with that of his predecessor and, crucially, Johnson's stubborn refusal to countenance the sacking of Cummings and Jenrick for far worse than RLB did. I think it'll be a favourable comparison on both counts, and certainly shows that anything that even has the whiff of antisemitism isn't going to fly any more.

Worse?  Cummings was a PR issue and Jenrick the housing minister approved a housing development.

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Keir Starmer is ticking all the right boxes for me, and I say that as someone who has voted Tory the past two elections.

That's why hes got a chance, hes a better tory prime minister than boris 

[Silebyfox_89]

I've voted for both main political parties in the past, Keir Starmer has impressed me so far since winning the leadership and his appointing his shadow cabinet (Ex David Lammy). It looks like we will have an effective opposition for the first time in a while which is good for politics all round.

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

I've voted for both main political parties in the past, Keir Starmer has impressed me so far since winning the leadership and his appointing his shadow cabinet (Ex David Lammy). It looks like we will have an effective opposition for the first time in a while which is good for politics all round.

So you're a swinger!  Completely agree on Keir, while I still don't think he has hit his stride, can you imagine Long Bailey or Nandy forming an opposition?  

[Charl91]

25 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Worse?  Cummings was a PR issue and Jenrick the housing minister approved a housing development.

Jenrick's was definitely worse, by a long, long, long margin. One shared an article that, let's face it, wasn't really anti-semitic (though it serves her right for going anywhere near the subject), and one is involved in a blatantly clear corruption scandal.

 

Astute move by Keir here, really.

Edited 25 June 2020 by Charl91

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

Jenrick's was definitely worse, by a long, long, long margin. One shared an article that, let's face it, wasn't really anti-semitic (though it serves her right for going anywhere near the subject), and one is involved in a blatantly clear corruption scandal.

 

Astute move by Keir here, really.

 

 

Where is the corruption?  Is there any proof whatoever Jenrick have benefitted in any way from approving the scheme?

[Sampson]

Eh. The article RBL shared, I think the parts about us being ruled by fascist dictators was probably worse than the Isreal stuff, but it's a pretty common trope of modern political discourse sadly to just call everything fascist to try and emitionise and shut down debates.

 

It was definitely a silly article to share and to be fair this is exactly the sort of thing Corbyn would have spent far more time caring about vocally defending any anti-Israel sentiment than actually caring about any criticisms of anti-semitism. So I guess it's definitely a step forward in that sense. 

 

As I said the other day, I agree with the posts above. I'm generally a bit of a swing voter too and I'm liking what I've seen from Starmer so far.

Edited 25 June 2020 by Sampson

[martyn]

2 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Keir Starmer is ticking all the right boxes for me, and I say that as someone who has voted Tory the past two elections.

Same.

 

Would think for every crying activist/Corbynista threatening to cancel their Labour Party membership in a twitter meltdown, there are more pragmatists impressed by what Starmer is doing.

 

I in no way want to vote for this incarnation of Tory government again any time soon - a Labour party moving towards the centre ground is ripe for my vote. I do hope he doesn't abandon all left leaning policy though.

Edited 25 June 2020 by martyn

[Dahnsouff]

You know, I never knew so many people lived in Holborn/St Pancras on here. Surprising for a Leicester City football forum. 

[Kopfkino]

3 hours ago, Bilo said:

The electorate will compare Starmer's quick action with that of his predecessor and, crucially, Johnson's stubborn refusal to countenance the sacking of Cummings and Jenrick for far worse than RLB did. I think it'll be a favourable comparison on both counts, and certainly shows that anything that even has the whiff of antisemitism isn't going to fly any more.

 

I think most of the electorate will be too busy enjoying the sunshine and getting stoked for the 4th of July to notice RLB getting sacked for nothing and Jenrick not getting sacked for something

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Where is the corruption?  Is there any proof whatoever Jenrick have benefitted in any way from approving the scheme?

Depends on your view 

 

But the developer donating £12k off the back of the scheme being approved isn’t a good look. 
 

Starmer actually hasn’t called for a resignation. Whoever is advising Keir is good at understanding how the media and reaction to news works 

Edited 25 June 2020 by Cardiff_Fox

[Finnaldo]

2 hours ago, Sampson said:

Eh. The article RBL shared, I think the parts about us (the West) being ruled by fascist dictators was probably worse than the Isreal stuff, but it's a pretty common trope of modern political discourse sadly to just call everything fascist to try and emitionise and shut down debates.

 

It was definitely a silly article to share and to be fair this is exactly the sort of thing Corbyn would have spent far more time caring about vocally defending any anti-Israel sentiment than actually caring about any criticisms of anti-semitism. So I guess it's definitely a step forward in that sense. 

 

As I said the other day, I agree with the posts above. I'm generally a bit of a swing voter too and I'm liking what I've seen from Starmer so far.

It’s a bit of a thin red line in regards to anti-semitism. I had a poster (I won’t say who, they can say if they wish) who are Jewish themselves and educated me on it from their perspective in the run-up to the election, and I’ve watched a video essay very recently going over the subject. 
 

Ultimately, it was a rather harmful theory in my opinion. ‘Israel teach American police their brutality’ is 1) patently untrue as several policemen came forward after the George Floyd incident to say they’re trained to NEVER lean on someone’s neck, the act alone is misconduct in official lines, and 2) it suggests far more influence than Israel in actuality have. Even if it’s not intentional it’s drawn from fiercely anti-Semitic tropes that ‘((they))‘ control or influence over foreign governments. 
 

There’s legitimate criticism of Israel’s government and it’s domestic and foreign policy (for example, the nigh on apartheid in occupied West Bank and the fact Pro-Israel lobbying groups DO hold SOME sway in American politics) but it needs to be reasoned and fair, intentional or not this article is rather inflammatory and it’s certainly not something a Labour frontbencher should be sharing. I certainly think it was the right call from Keir.

Edited 25 June 2020 by Finnaldo

[Izzy]

44 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

I think most of the electorate will be too busy enjoying the sunshine and getting stoked for the 4th of July to notice RLB getting sacked for nothing and Jenrick not getting sacked for something

Old MattP would be having a field day today on here over all this.
 

Someone needs to step up on this thread and fill his right wing shoes. I vote for @UpTheLeagueFox 

[Silebyfox_89]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

So you're a swinger!  Completely agree on Keir, while I still don't think he has hit his stride, can you imagine Long Bailey or Nandy forming an opposition?  

Nothing wrong with a good swing! I agree i think he's more methodical and calculated than some people think, i wonder if Boris popularity will start to wear thin in the coming months? 

 

Funnily enough i liked Nandy at the beginning but she went a bit of piste with some of her views during the leadership campaign with put me off.

[l444ry]

Should have had more sense. It’s her own fault. Twitter is a minefield.

Edited 25 June 2020 by l444ry

[Mike Oxlong]

RLB is just a Corbyn stooge. Good riddance. Cue some serious infighting amongst Labour now as the left of the party licks its wounds. Be interesting to see how Starmer deals with it. 
 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Worse?  Cummings was a PR issue and Jenrick the housing minister approved a housing development.

Spot on Jon

 

Apart from the government accepting that he acted unlawfully and Jenrick admitting to the appearance of bias he did absolutely nothing wrong 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/robert-jenrick-bias-tower-hamlets-westferry-printworks-richard-desmond-northern-shell-a9534941.html%3famp

 

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, Sampson said:

Eh. The article RBL shared, I think the parts about us being ruled by fascist dictators was probably worse than the Isreal stuff, but it's a pretty common trope of modern political discourse sadly to just call everything fascist to try and emitionise and shut down debates.

 

It was definitely a silly article to share and to be fair this is exactly the sort of thing Corbyn would have spent far more time caring about vocally defending any anti-Israel sentiment than actually caring about any criticisms of anti-semitism. So I guess it's definitely a step forward in that sense. 

 

As I said the other day, I agree with the posts above. I'm generally a bit of a swing voter too and I'm liking what I've seen from Starmer so far.

I do feel it's a slight overreaction however she gave Starmer the perfect opportunity to prove his 'zero tolerance' to anti-semitism approach. A small whiff and she's gone and honestly I think he's got it spot on.  What good was she thinking would come from it?

[Alf Bentley]

 

 

I know that it wasn't the central focus of the article, but I can't get over the absurdity of Maxine Peake's claim (which she's now admitted was wrong and has apologised for):

“Systemic racism is a global issue. The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”

 

Without any evidence, she seriously suggested that the Minneapolis police force learned to kneel on suspects' necks.....at seminars with the Israeli secret services?!? 

Maybe the seminars were led by Elvis Presley riding Shergar on his way to the grassy knoll to shoot JFK?

 

Why would you make such an absurd claim without evidence, unless it was based on prejudice - prejudice against the Israeli nation, if not outright anti-semitism?

 

I don't buy how McDonnell and the others claim this is OK because she was accusing Israel, not Jews. So, if she'd accused Israel of bringing down the Twin Towers, spreading Covid and killing Madeleine, that would be OK, would it?

Yes, it's justified to criticise Israeli institutions for things they actually do - illegal settlements, brutality against Palestinians, dodgy stuff genuinely done by Mossad for which there's evidence etc.

But absurd kneejerk accusations like this are, at the least, blatant anti-Israeli prejudice.....and we all know which race Israel is most intensely associated with, so I'd say it probably is anti-semitism.

 

I'm sure Long-Bailey mainly circulated that article because it was pro-Labour Left unity. She may not have even noticed the offending sentence.

But it seems she then tried to argue the toss, wanting to add a disclaimer rather than removing the item when asked.....if so, that's truly dense.

I actually doubt that Starmer wanted to sack her as it will make his relations with the Labour Left a lot trickier.

 

On a trivial note: Long-Bailey shares a weekday London flat with Deputy Leader Angela Rayner and they're best mates......would like to be a fly on that wall.