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19 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Well he did one for Sweden, and despite them not locking down at all, it didn't get even vaguely close to the numbers his model suggested.

He seems to think differently.

 

Professor Ferguson: 'First of all, they did not use our model. They developed a model of their own. We had no role in parameterising it. Generally, the key aspect of modelling is how well you parameterise it against the available data. But to be absolutely clear they did not use our model, they didn’t adapt our model.'

 

They say they adapted his model. 

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Vast majority of the country have followed the rules though, it's a bit easy to say "oh its the British, they don't give a shit" attitude but Spain and France have just as big problems as we do but you don't seen anyone criticising their people. I've spoken to people who will complain about every rule going, saying they've had enough and don't give a shit anymore but they'll still follow most of the rules. A lot of it is just talk. They'll be exceptions of course, but i think its unfair to just label it a British problem. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Your final paragraph is on the money

I’d always felt, pre-Covid, that British people were, by and large, actually quite stupid vis a vis some of our European cousins 

Covid 19 has just confirmed this. Just look at some of the posts on this very thread. There are still people who feel they can do exactly what they want, when they want and fook everybody else

England stinks with this attitude at the current time

I fully understand people thinking that perhaps we are going about things the wrong way. Attempting to shield the vulnerable and give care homes / NHS everything they need to support keeping them isolated seems a fairly reasonable idea / question to post. I'd like to get a response from the government as to why that's not viable, we seemed to be edging that way opening everything up. 

 

My original thought on that was that it would be hard to keep it out of care homes. But, we've not done a bad job of that recently as deaths have plummeted. Is that due to the precautions in place, or is that because the virus isn't fully out there again and when it is, is it just a matter of time before it gets into them again. 

 

But, we aren't doing that and we aren't close to implementing that sort of things. So until we are, take all the precautions that are being asked. I'm going to break a few rules, but I'm also very very cautious when doing so. I can't stop going to see my mum, she's all alone and I can't follow the "bubble" guidelines as my mrs is in the same position and needs to look after her Dad. 

 

So I see her in the garden and sit nowhere near her, drop her shopping off etc. What I don't do is have 20 people round my house having a party, like half of the people on social media seem to happily post pictures of. There is bending and breaking a few rules, which is what the government will expect and they understand. Then there is taking a great big sledgehammer to them and taking the piss. 

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20 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

What did the police do about it? Was the parent fined for trespass? 

The police wouldn't do crap over someone parking on your drive. It's been discussed on here before. It falls under a civil matter, so the most the police can do is "ask" for the car to be removed. If you want any legal punishments you have to take them to court and faff around for ages to get anything done. 

 

The irony of it all is if you trash someone's car that shouldn't be on your drive it's criminal damage and the police can get involved. 

 

Whole things stupid. :facepalm:

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8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I fully understand people thinking that perhaps we are going about things the wrong way. Attempting to shield the vulnerable and give care homes / NHS everything they need to support keeping them isolated seems a fairly reasonable idea / question to post. I'd like to get a response from the government as to why that's not viable, we seemed to be edging that way opening everything up. 

 

My original thought on that was that it would be hard to keep it out of care homes. But, we've not done a bad job of that recently as deaths have plummeted. Is that due to the precautions in place, or is that because the virus isn't fully out there again and when it is, is it just a matter of time before it gets into them again. 

 

But, we aren't doing that and we aren't close to implementing that sort of things. So until we are, take all the precautions that are being asked. I'm going to break a few rules, but I'm also very very cautious when doing so. I can't stop going to see my mum, she's all alone and I can't follow the "bubble" guidelines as my mrs is in the same position and needs to look after her Dad. 

 

So I see her in the garden and sit nowhere near her, drop her shopping off etc. What I don't do is have 20 people round my house having a party, like half of the people on social media seem to happily post pictures of. There is bending and breaking a few rules, which is what the government will expect and they understand. Then there is taking a great big sledgehammer to them and taking the piss. 

Great post again and the last paragraph is what it’s about imo

Common sense

Youve taken the decision that you can’t not see your mum so you take precautions when you do, to not (selfishly) put her at any more risk

Why won’t the people who say ‘just do what you want’, not see that the real risk is who they can transmit the bloody virus to. It’s such an incredibly selfish attitude

Well done to you Babs

 

Edited by Col city fan
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8 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

The police wouldn't do crap over someone parking on your drive. It's been discussed on here before. It falls under a civil matter, so the most the police can do is "ask" for the car to be removed. If you want any legal punishments you have to take them to court and faff around for ages to get anything done. 

 

The irony of it all is if you trash someone's car that shouldn't be on your drive it's criminal damage and the police can get involved. 

 

Whole things stupid. :facepalm:

But you can install some bollards in your drive, and then go out for the day.

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19 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I fully understand people thinking that perhaps we are going about things the wrong way. Attempting to shield the vulnerable and give care homes / NHS everything they need to support keeping them isolated seems a fairly reasonable idea / question to post. I'd like to get a response from the government as to why that's not viable, we seemed to be edging that way opening everything up. 

 

My original thought on that was that it would be hard to keep it out of care homes. But, we've not done a bad job of that recently as deaths have plummeted. Is that due to the precautions in place, or is that because the virus isn't fully out there again and when it is, is it just a matter of time before it gets into them again. 

 

But, we aren't doing that and we aren't close to implementing that sort of things. So until we are, take all the precautions that are being asked. I'm going to break a few rules, but I'm also very very cautious when doing so. I can't stop going to see my mum, she's all alone and I can't follow the "bubble" guidelines as my mrs is in the same position and needs to look after her Dad. 

 

So I see her in the garden and sit nowhere near her, drop her shopping off etc. What I don't do is have 20 people round my house having a party, like half of the people on social media seem to happily post pictures of. There is bending and breaking a few rules, which is what the government will expect and they understand. Then there is taking a great big sledgehammer to them and taking the piss. 

Regarding the numbers of deaths in nursing homes, I expect that this will be subject to judicial review

Re lowered numbers in nursing homes, I guess it’s down to both factors (less Covid and clearer guidelines). But I would assume the biggest reason is that local authorities will be being far more careful who they place into long term care and that close checks are done before people become moved.

 

Edited by Col city fan
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15 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Regarding the numbers of deaths in nursing homes, I expect that this will be subject to judicial review

Re lowered numbers in nursing homes, I guess it’s down to both factors (less Covid and clearer guidelines). But I would assume the biggest reason is that local authorities will be being far more careful who they place into long term care and that close checks are done before people become moved.

 

It's also possibly due to the fall in numbers in them since the first wave :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

 

Shock. :rolleyes:

 

 

I do understand why to some extent we're just dealing with arbitrary and occasionally contradictory restrictions, given doing something to stop the spread is evidently more likely to save lives than doing nothing. But it's not good enough for the Prime Minister to claim this is evidence-based when it isn't. Then again perhaps he wouldn't feel so inclined to lie about the justification for these measures if he hadn't lost the moral authority to govern this crisis earlier on...

There was a behavioural scientist on BBC last night supporting the approach the government is taking on pub opening hours.

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14 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

There was a behavioural scientist on BBC last night supporting the approach the government is taking on pub opening hours.

I don't doubt it, and I don't doubt the reasoning behind why the move has been made. My issue is with the PM standing up in the House of Commons and declaring something different. That in turn erodes trust in the measure and makes people less likely to comply. How hard is it to be honest about why you're doing something?

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7 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

I think it goes without saying that people are completely sick to death with this but this all really does need to **** off at the earliest opportunity.

 

 

The vaccine is needed

Then it’ll be a seasonal thing, like flu, I suspect 

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5 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

The vaccine is needed

Then it’ll be a seasonal thing, like flu, I suspect 

Yep and I know this has been talked about to death but the wider impact will be worse than the virus.

 

Get us back to football

Get us back to gigs

Get us back to being able to see family without having to second guess everything

Get us back to pubs, restaurants

Get us back to letting us do what the **** we want.

 

Loving life.

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10 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Yep and I know this has been talked about to death but the wider impact will be worse than the virus.

 

Get us back to football

Get us back to gigs

Get us back to being able to see family without having to second guess everything

Get us back to pubs, restaurants

Get us back to letting us do what the **** we want.

 

Loving life.

I miss those days:(

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18 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Yep and I know this has been talked about to death but the wider impact will be worse than the virus.

 

Get us back to football

Get us back to gigs

Get us back to being able to see family without having to second guess everything

Get us back to pubs, restaurants

Get us back to letting us do what the **** we want.

 

Loving life.

It’s my opinion that if we want to get back to those days mate, we must ALL use common sense now

Short term pain will equal long term gain I think 

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6 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

It’s my opinion that if we want to get back to those days mate, we must ALL use common sense now

Short term pain will equal long term gain I think 

ummm.... that implies solely on there being a vaccine.. what if there isn't one?

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Surely if Boris and his cronies were really serious about cutting the infection rate then they would do something with the schools rather  than the hospitality industry which has been up and running for months. It is so utterly blatant that it is the return of children to the classroom that is responsible for the spike in infection. These new measures will have a really minimal effect in comparison.

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46 minutes ago, Shram said:

ummm.... that implies solely on there being a vaccine.. what if there isn't one?

I don't think the government has any plans at all for what happens if there isn't a vaccine.  Plan A vaccine.  Plan B - run around like headless chickens and locking everyone down because they want to be seen to do something even if they know it doesn't work.

 

Doctors' surgeries have been basically closed for 6 months.  All sorts of life ruining conditions (eg. dodgy hips) and some life threatening conditions have been untreated for 6 months.  Sooner of later the policy of saving 50,000 lives at the expense of killing 49,000 others, putting 2 million out of work, and advancing the onset of dementia in hundreds of thousands, is going to seem counter-productive.

 

Here's a novel idea.  Protect the vulnerable, but let the rest of us carry on.

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23 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

Surely if Boris and his cronies were really serious about cutting the infection rate then they would do something with the schools rather  than the hospitality industry which has been up and running for months. It is so utterly blatant that it is the return of children to the classroom that is responsible for the spike in infection. These new measures will have a really minimal effect in comparison.

I agree, schools seem to be the elephant in the room at the minute. It’s clear that’s why the infection rate has risen.

i can’t see the current measures making any difference then we will be into a full lockdown that will conveniently fall on the October half term week.

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1 hour ago, Shram said:

ummm.... that implies solely on there being a vaccine.. what if there isn't one?

Then the original plan of herd immunity is the only option, but instead of coming out and saying 60% of the population need to catch it which may result in 500000 deaths, which is a tad shocking as it's assumed that it's an overnight thing and we'll wake up tomorrow with half a million dead bodies lying around,  how about saying that it could take 5 years to achieve it, but we'll put measures in place to protect the old and vulnerable such as we'll do a 20 minute test so you can visit you're granny. if we'd done that in the first place, we'd be 10% there by now.

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13 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I don't think the government has any plans at all for what happens if there isn't a vaccine.  Plan A vaccine.  Plan B - run around like headless chickens and locking everyone down because they want to be seen to do something even if they know it doesn't work.

 

Doctors' surgeries have been basically closed for 6 months.  All sorts of life ruining conditions (eg. dodgy hips) and some life threatening conditions have been untreated for 6 months.  Sooner of later the policy of saving 50,000 lives at the expense of killing 49,000 others, putting 2 million out of work, and advancing the onset of dementia in hundreds of thousands, is going to seem counter-productive.

 

Here's a novel idea.  Protect the vulnerable, but let the rest of us carry on.

Exactly..  in no way should we forget or leave them, but realistically we get a vaccine or we don't. We can'y keep going into these lockdowns.. the longer term impact to society as a whole would be more damaging than the impact of the other (IMO Only... there's no science, graphs or pointless soundsbites to prove this).. 

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