Coronavirus Thread

[Voll Blau]

Just now, Lcfc82 said:

Cummings is just being used as an excuse for people to break the rules. 

The problem is the failure to come down hard on these BLM protests, Liverpool supporters out celebrating and other mass gatherings that have left people thinking why should I bother.

If Leicester is locked down it will need to be the whole city and will have to policed heavily for it to work.

But how could the police come down hard on them after the government said it's OK for their top boy to interpret the rules as he saw fit?

 

Again, I'm not saying it's not being used as an excuse - but if Downing Street wasn't willing to set an example by acting on rule-breaking then what chance does any other authority have?

[UniFox21]

5 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Based on Germany, a local lockdown would only be in place for two weeks. But it would be impossible to police, would Leicestershire be fine? If not what if I live in Castle Donington which is on the border?

Similar questions here, surely would make sense to lock the entire county down rather than just the city centre. 

[davieG]

14 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

Two out of how many though?

 

 

 

Absolutely agree with both of these points, and the likes of us as responsible citizens won't have altered our behaviour at all as a result.

 

My point though is not that it's a reasonable excuse for people to use when they behave like twats (it's not), rather that it's since been much harder to police that behaviour on a legal level - and, perhaps more importantly, on a social level too. The government relied on widespread goodwill from the public to stick by the restrictions, and then betrayed that goodwill when they defended him. I don't think the same appetite to condemn these actions now exists either on a societal level or within individual peer groups, hence the more selfish elements of our society feeling they can take liberties knowing they won't face either legal or social consequences for doing so.

I think you make a fair point with the goodwill aspect. 

[Innovindil]

4 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

But how could the police come down hard on them after the government said it's OK for their top boy to interpret the rules as he saw fit?

 

Again, I'm not saying it's not being used as an excuse - but if Downing Street wasn't willing to set an example by acting on rule-breaking then what chance does any other authority have?

Because the police have told them it's illegal ffs. You think these people at street parties are somehow murky on the rules? They know exactly what they are doing. Driving to a different home and mass gatherings are two completely different things. They aren't even remotely close and I'm baffled that ANYONE would even try to defend it.

[StanSP]

5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

But how could the police come down hard on them after the government said it's OK for their top boy to interpret the rules as he saw fit?

 

Again, I'm not saying it's not being used as an excuse - but if Downing Street wasn't willing to set an example by acting on rule-breaking then what chance does any other authority have?

This is why I sympathise with the police these days in managing the consequences of those who flaunt/flex/break/bend the rules. 

 

How can they 'police' such events when the guidelines are quite varied and not thorough enough, in my opinion? Everything is re-opening, social distancing is reducing, what are they expected to do?

[Lcfc82]

I’m not saying he hasn’t bent the rules a bit but don’t think what he did is comparable to the mass gatherings that are taking place. 

It shouldn’t prevent the police coming down hard on people because they are breaking the law irrespective of Cummings.

like I say a lot of people don’t care about sticking to the rules and Dominic Cummings is the perfect excuse 

[Voll Blau]

2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Because the police have told them it's illegal ffs. You think these people at street parties are somehow murky on the rules? They know exactly what they are doing. Driving to a different home and mass gatherings are two completely different things. They aren't even remotely close and I'm baffled that ANYONE would even try to defend it.

 

Who's defending it or saying these people don't know what they're doing? Rule-breaking is rule-breaking no matter how few or many people do it, and the government decided that rule-breaking was tolerable with its response to Cummings. Ever since, the more selfish elements of our society have decided more and more that they can take their own liberties. It's not right, but it's a sad truth that if you give people an inch then they'll take a mile.

[BKLFox]

13 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

I do question whether the BLM rallies and far-right counter-rallies would have happened to the same extent without that catalyst though. We'll never know.

 

Obviously there are other factors involved too, but it doesn't mean that the government's response to his actions haven't somewhat caused a change in attitude among certain elements of the population since. Again, I'm not saying that's right!

For sure all these things happen even if the government went all William Wallace on Cummings and paraded a body part in each of the 4 nations, emotion clouds judgement.

[davieG]

I think if you've got a mass gathering of people it's almost impossible to clamp it down without it turning violent, there's already enough hatred for the police (and ambulances and Fire brigades it would seem) in our society that we've created without risking exacerbating it with what would ultimately be a lost cause. In fact it would probably have brought out a load of anti-police / government protests.

[StanSP]

Just now, Lcfc82 said:

I’m not saying he hasn’t bent the rules a bit but don’t think what he did is comparable to the mass gatherings that are taking place. 

It shouldn’t prevent the police coming down hard on people because they are breaking the law irrespective of Cummings.

like I say a lot of people don’t care about sticking to the rules and Dominic Cummings is the perfect excuse 

Coming down hard on people was never the initial intention though for police. I think several police forces have stated they'll fine if need be but mostly educate and disperse big crowds. Only if these crowds refuse or continue to carry on then they'll be a bit harsher with punishments. Maybe therein lies the problem as well in that it's not entirely clear what will happen to each person/group should they break the rules.

 

I totally get the perspective of government officials not being punished when they should have, for sheer rule-breaking. Government should lead from the front. Take the initiative.

Having said that, so should the public and ultimately the choice of their actions lies with them - they choose to gather in groups, not socially distance, travel ridiculous distances. But when you see government cover up to protect someone and make a hash of their own rules, it doesn't set the right example for the public.  

[Dahnsouff]

27 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

Absolutely agree with both of these points, and the likes of us as responsible citizens won't have altered our behaviour at all as a result.

 

My point though is not that it's a reasonable excuse for people to use when they behave like twats (it's not), rather that it's since been much harder to police that behaviour on a legal level - and, perhaps more importantly, on a social level too. The government relied on widespread goodwill from the public to stick by the restrictions, and then betrayed that goodwill when they defended him. I don't think the same appetite to condemn these actions now exists either on a societal level or within individual peer groups, hence the more selfish elements of our society feeling they can take liberties knowing they won't face either legal or social consequences for doing so.

It’s a shame, but I fear the selfish element is on the ascendancy towards establishing an unpleasant norm, but as it stands now it is mostly an outlier still, albeit a sizeable outlier.

[davieG]

15 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

It’s a shame, but I fear the selfish element is on the ascendancy towards establishing an unpleasant norm, but as it stands now it is mostly an outlier still, albeit a sizeable outlier.

The massive leap in selfishness in our society has been around for a long time, just a short trip in your car will demonstrate that.

 

I actually think many of the rules introduced into our society to help protect and make people safe have been counter productive and has led to a 'if there's no law against it I can do it' attitude. Driving is a classic example of this where courtesy and common sense has all but disappeared.

[foxile5]

20 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

I’m not saying he hasn’t bent the rules a bit but don’t think what he did is comparable to the mass gatherings that are taking place. 

It shouldn’t prevent the police coming down hard on people because they are breaking the law irrespective of Cummings.

like I say a lot of people don’t care about sticking to the rules and Dominic Cummings is the perfect excuse 

That's exactly why Cummings needed to be visibly punished. It opened the door for those already inclined to break rules. 

 

If you're in the business of leading then you need to abide by your rules or those you are leading won't either. 

[Guest Harrydc]

Does anyone think places like Loughborough, Rothley, Mountsorrel etc would be part of the local lockdown, or literally just Leicester City centre? 

[Costock_Fox]

Just now, Harrydc said:

Does anyone think places like Loughborough, Rothley, Mountsorrel etc would be part of the local lockdown, or literally just Leicester City centre? 

I wouldn’t have thought so, surely just the most hit places and the centre.

[Dahnsouff]

24 minutes ago, davieG said:

The massive leap in selfishness in our society has been around for a long time, just a short trip in your car will demonstrate that.

 

I actually think many of the rules introduced into our society to help protect and make people safe have been counter productive and has led to a 'if there's no law against it I can do it' attitude. Driving is a classic example of this where courtesy and common sense has all but disappeared.

Whilst not disagreeing, I will counter that argument by saying ThatI only drive about once every 3 months, and I still encounter it, it’s evident in pretty much all walks of life.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

See I don't get this Cummings joyride being the cause for this. Surely people should be following the lockdown guidance for their own, their families and their friends safety not because the government says they should. It just seems to be a big excuse for people's selfishness and ignorance.

 

We have millions of rules and regulations that the overwhelming majority of people follow they don't just ignore them because they see someone else doing it so why should it be used as a justification with this Virus?

Just One Misty  perspective..

 

Since the Late 70s..UK has become the ME..ME society...fuk everyone else...  Probably Settling or Working in other lands,then returning occasionally,gave me a different View or perspective...Experiencing in accompanying or Meeting  BAME friends the  racism I thought had disapeared,started to Show a more negative direction as the years have gone by. and my god ASBOS seemed to Somehow just become a grudging acceptance..

 

And I come from New Parks!!!..

in my Time the balanced Families of my Fathers Time and older Sisters generation,kept a decent Status Quo.The Good decent even rough  Lads/lassies just as hard and stubborn as the OTT unruly occasional yobs.This is Not to Single out Wclass estates or Work enviroments..Its just seems across the whole society in all areas,among all levels even in London educated Groups a low level of Social behaviour..."And I aint no snob or shrinking violet"

Just a bit streetwise...because of my childhood and Teenage years..

 

The above is also a bit OTT,majority of People are decent from all walks of life in the UK,but in the Background there is a negative hum on Social behaviour,and how some interreact und behave within the society..Work  & Socially...And to some,Not all, Drink has become an OTT pastime,even at home,and celebraties bringing it regualarly into their conversations..

.( I used to Drink my fair shair,ex-sportsman/Rugby Player  & but it wasnt a must)

 

Over the years as an ex-pat,I actually thought it was me, I stopped  enjoying  my trips backhome ,and I had become One of those type of snobs I so detested....

But then I started to speak to older expats,then in Work with some younger than me & a few years from their homeland....To a person,they miss their get togethers with friends,in Towns or City centers,without hassle. Areas,councils and some People have Let themselves go. General Quality of Clothes in normal shops,gone down. Though still Friendly Faces in the streets,in the shops.Just those occasional evenings something always broils,direct or indirect.

General courtesy,and a Welcome even between and among  'thiefs'. is becoming a sort of a rarity...The British character has changed...!!

 

Like I mentioned just a point of View from a blurred view...

 

Edited 28 June 2020 by fuchsntf

[UniFox21]

BBC News - Coronavirus: Leicester 'could be locked down' says home secretary
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53206506

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

How are they gonna police this? They can't stop a few lads in London chucking objects at them or ensure the Scousers are sent home rather than left to gather. It's just more bullshit like the quarantine that untimately they won't be able to police properly.

[tom27111]

22 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

Does anyone think places like Loughborough, Rothley, Mountsorrel etc would be part of the local lockdown, or literally just Leicester City centre? 

 

But the morons who have decided to ignore lockdown will inevitably travel to those places to visit pubs, therefore making these areas hotspots. 

[l444ry]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

See I don't get this Cummings joyride being the cause for this. Surely people should be following the lockdown guidance for their own, their families and their friends safety not because the government says they should. It just seems to be a big excuse for people's selfishness and ignorance.

 

We have millions of rules and regulations that the overwhelming majority of people follow they don't just ignore them because they see someone else doing it so why should it be used as a justification with this Virus?

You mean take Johnson's advice and use good old British common sense in relation to the lockdown? Think that's half the problem, people are using *common sense* as they see it and are doing nothing wrong. 

[ajthefox]

22 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Just One Misty  perspective..

 

Since the Late 70s..UK has become the ME..ME society...fuk everyone else...  Probably Settling or Working in other lands,then returning occasionally,gave me a different View or perspective...Experiencing in accompanying or Meeting  BAME friends the  racism I thought had disapeared,started to Show a more negative direction as the years have gone by. and my god ASBOS seemed to Somehow just become a grudging acceptance..

 

And I come from New Parks!!!..

in my Time the balanced Families of my Fathers Time and older Sisters generation,kept a decent Status Quo.The Good decent even rough  Lads/lassies just as hard and stubborn as the OTT unruly occasional yobs.This is Not to Single out Wclass estates or Work enviroments..Its just seems across the whole society in all areas,among all levels even in London educated Groups a low level of Social behaviour..."And I aint no snob or shrinking violet"

Just a bit streetwise...because of my childhood and Teenage years..

 

The above is also a bit OTT,majority of People are decent from all walks of life in the UK,but in the Background there is a negative hum on Social behaviour,and how some interreact und behave within the society..Work  & Socially...And to some,Not all, Drink has become an OTT pastime,even at home,and celebraties bringing it regualarly into their conversations..

.( I used to Drink my fair shair,ex-sportsman/Rugby Player  & but it wasnt a must)

 

Over the years as an ex-pat,I actually thought it was me, I stopped  enjoying  my trips backhome ,and I had become One of those type of snobs I so detested....

But then I started to speak to older expats,then in Work with some younger than me & a few years from their homeland....To a person,they miss their get togethers with friends,in Towns or City centers,without hassle. Areas,councils and some People have Let themselves go. General Quality of Clothes in normal shops,gone down. Though still Friendly Faces in the streets,in the shops.Just those occasional evenings something always broils,direct or indirect.

General courtesy,and a Welcome even between and among  'thiefs'. is becoming a sort of a rarity...The British character has changed...!!

 

Like I mentioned just a point of View from a blurred view...

 

Ahh. It all makes sense now..

 

[StanSP]

31 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

How are they gonna police this? They can't stop a few lads in London chucking objects at them or ensure the Scousers are sent home rather than left to gather. It's just more bullshit like the quarantine that untimately they won't be able to police properly.

Dispersal orders. Think that prevents people from gathering in public parks, open areas. 

 

Once order is in place, police have powers to punish officially as opposed to just telling people to move on without any law in place. If you're seen to be in a group of 2+ people then police can arrest you and take you to court.

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Dispersal orders. Think that prevents people from gathering in public parks, open areas. 

 

Once order is in place, police have powers to punish officially as opposed to just telling people to move on without any law in place. If you're seen to be in a group of 2+ people then police can arrest you and take you to court.

Is it only for public places then? I thought it was pretty safe to be outside. I'd imagine it'll only be done to stop pubs and stuff opening, to halt the spread a bit. People will just visit other houses etc.

 

Had a heavy night last night and I've woken up to all this news

[fuchsntf]

27 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

Ahh. It all makes sense now..

 

Done that,seen that,experienced that,speak & Work in 4 languages,Not One T-Shirt Left on the shelf,Not One Books Page Left unturned,held my drink without any embarrasing regrets, Danced the fandango, travelled all corners,fought 4 times cancer,exchanged experienced,instructed and Chatted with more clever indigenous Persons than have OTT Claims of the English language on this very simple Football forum.....

 

I am Happy with my lot....!! 

Please Continue to  Feel open,facetious and carry your can....freely as the can...can..

Edited 28 June 2020 by fuchsntf