Coronavirus Thread

[Dr The Singh]

3 hours ago, Christoph said:

 

Why are they allowing no social distancing in gyms now then? I.E. Grappling/Jits is allowed or whatever?  

I suppose gyms are indoors but we can still play contact sports outdoors

[CosbehFox]

7 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

Oh I forgot, just cus your under the influence, your a rampant groper or in ader of space well worse then 22 peeps running, contacting each other.   Bizarre

 

No. As I said you aren’t sharing a toilet like you are in a pub. 
 

A study into football said you aren’t closer enough for a prolonged period of time in order for transmission to take place. 
 

Under the influence more likely to hug and share food/drinks etc. In a pub you are likely to go through the same entrance/exits that hundreds have each day. Through the same doors, touching the same handles and surfaces. 
 

Outdoor sports is simply those who need to use the loo.
 

Exaggerate away mind 

Edited 24 March 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[Otis]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

It was - so ****ing what?

 

Hopefully that will happen over the coming months. To reiterate; we don't know how long vaccination can maintain immunity, we don't know whether those that have had the virus can get re-infected, we don't know the extent that it prevents transmission and virologists are currently very concerned about the Brazilian variants which are highly contagious and much more dangerous.

 

 

 

There is no evidence of this.

 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/covid-variant#BRAdeadly

The Brazilian strain is not believed to be more deadly, but it does spread more easily than the original Covid-19 strain.

[st albans fox]

18 minutes ago, Otis said:

There is no evidence of this.

 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/covid-variant#BRAdeadly

The Brazilian strain is not believed to be more deadly, but it does spread more easily than the original Covid-19 strain.

It’s the s African strain that concerns them more ref vaccine efficacy 

 

a study today from Singapore showed a large variation in how long people kept antibodies and T cell repsonse. One wonders if we could end up in a situation where we have a blood test every 3 months to check our immunity and then a booster if necessary. widespread blood tests could be used to carry out all kinds of screening and therefore improve the health of the nation ......it would require a big investment but potentially one which would pay for itself over time  ....

Edited 24 March 2021 by st albans fox

[Otis]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It’s the s African strain that concerns them more ref vaccine efficacy 

 

a study today from Singapore showed a large variation in how long people kept antibodies and T cell repsonse. One wonders if we could end up in a situation where we have a blood test every 3 months to check our immunity and then a booster if necessary. widespread blood tests could be used to carry out all kinds of screening and therefore improve the health of the nation ......it would require a big investment but potentially one which would pay for itself over time  ....

The South African strain is not believed to be more deadly than the initial strain, but it is known to spread more quickly than the initial strain.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Otis said:

The South African strain is not believed to be more deadly than the initial strain, but it is known to spread more quickly than the initial strain.

Not more deadly but from what I’ve read, the vaccines we have are less effective in reducing infection from it.  More infections raises the chances of mutations .... that’s what they’re most scared of ....

[Master Fox]

3 hours ago, Thefox81 said:

How many wars have you fought in to know it is exciting? I have a feeling that you would barracade yourself inside if there was a war outside. Having served (only as an army chef) in Kosovo and Iraq exciting is not a word you would use to describe it.

I lived in Trump's America for 5 years. That's pretty much a battle ground for any foreigner. Living where I did probably the most deadly battle ground on earth. 

 

 

[Dr The Singh]

52 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

No. As I said you aren’t sharing a toilet like you are in a pub. 
 

A study into football said you aren’t closer enough for a prolonged period of time in order for transmission to take place. 
 

Under the influence more likely to hug and share food/drinks etc. In a pub you are likely to go through the same entrance/exits that hundreds have each day. Through the same doors, touching the same handles and surfaces. 
 

Outdoor sports is simply those who need to use the loo.
 

Exaggerate away mind 

What about Rugby?

 

What do you mean by sharing toilets, every pub I went to was 1 in 1 out, just like work place, and so is powerleague, footy club and rugby club.

 

Pro longed closeness doesn't happen in my local there are perspex screens between everyone that sits, and distance between tables, infact I'm closer and have no barriers standing for 90 minutes watching my kids play.

 

Simply needing the loo also happens in pubs, it's been years since I was lucky to be invited into the loos in a pub with someone who did not want a wee or poo.

[Legend_in_blue]

Probability and Risk: More insights on the extent of COVID-19 among asymptomatics and false positive PCR testing rates (probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com)

 

More data to expose the 1 in 3 are asymptomatic Hancock loves to reiterate on a daily basis.

 

The data is there, but govt turn a blind eye to it.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Dr The Singh said:

What about Rugby?

 

What do you mean by sharing toilets, every pub I went to was 1 in 1 out, just like work place, and so is powerleague, footy club and rugby club.

 

Pro longed closeness doesn't happen in my local there are perspex screens between everyone that sits, and distance between tables, infact I'm closer and have no barriers standing for 90 minutes watching my kids play.

 

Simply needing the loo also happens in pubs, it's been years since I was lucky to be invited into the loos in a pub with someone who did not want a wee or poo.

Every sporting association has to provide guidance.
 

The FA will not permit any use of changing rooms from Monday. As was the case in December as well. Before November, you could get changed but only in groups of 6 and most places no use of showers. You are expected to turn up in your kit and leave in your kit. Toilets are allowed to be opened for a maximum of 15 minutes before a game and during half time. 

 

Rugby of any competitive nature has not been played now for a year. Contact training was minimised to twenty minutes every session. This was for a spell in September and October. They are bringing that back from Monday. It can only be tackling. No mauls or rucks. No rugby club can use changing rooms. 
 

Rugby games of a full physical contact nature are not being played to all social distancing rules are finished. Basically they are expected to be playing full games in September with only tag and touch allowed for now in a competitive nature. 
 

Prolonged closeness doesn’t happen in pubs with social but what you have is the repeated touching of surfaces in toilets or doors to toilets/entrances etc repeatedly by a decent number of people between every clean. If you have twenty tables of six, that’s potentially a maximum of 120 people
 

By comparison a game of football, you have a maximum of 29 people who may use a toilet in a select 30 minute pocket of time. There are no doors to have use (unless the loo), you don’t enter a door to get into the outdoor/garden area and no surfaces to place yourself against. You turn up and play. 

[dsr-burnley]

4 hours ago, Line-X said:

Hopefully that will happen over the coming months. To reiterate; we don't know how long vaccination can maintain immunity, we don't know whether those that have had the virus can get re-infected, we don't know the extent that it prevents transmission and virologists are currently very concerned about the Brazilian variants which are highly contagious and much more dangerous.

So what do we do about it?  We won't know any of the answers if we hide in cupboards for the rest of our lives.  I vote for Britain to join Israel as being guinea pigs for the rest of the world to test how effective these viruses are.  While the rest of the world spends summer in lockdown, we can spend summer having a good time.  And if it all goes wrong and the death rate once again rises to 20% above average next winter and the whole world shuts down again, we will at least have had a good summer.

 

There is a limit to how long you can tell an 88 year old to wait for things to get better.  I realise that if all the over 70s are locked up for a further 10 years, then most of them will die of something else in the meantime, and the rest will be too riddled with dementia to know what coronavirus is anyway, but that won't in my book be a triumph for lockdown.

[Nod.E]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Not more deadly but from what I’ve read, the vaccines we have are less effective in reducing infection from it.  More infections raises the chances of mutations .... that’s what they’re most scared of ....

What is the precident for coronaviruses mutating to becoming more deadly? If non to little, then who cares?

 

Re vaccines, isn't the line that vaccines can be tweaked to provide protection against other strains? Meantime, restrict access from locations with high volume of variant and isolate cases if they arise.

 

I fail to see why any of this should derail the route out of lockdown. Sorry to disappoint.

 

Out of interest, is there anything that gives you cause for optimism? I'm intrigued to see if you can bring yourself to post something positive.

[Soup]

7 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Probability and Risk: More insights on the extent of COVID-19 among asymptomatics and false positive PCR testing rates (probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com)

 

More data to expose the 1 in 3 are asymptomatic Hancock loves to reiterate on a daily basis.

 

The data is there, but govt turn a blind eye to it.

Not just government turning a blind eye but the public as well. Too busy arguing about holidays and taking a side in tv EU vaccine debate. This is scandalous if you ask me. What else are they fooling us with  

[reynard]

9 hours ago, Otis said:

The South African strain is not believed to be more deadly than the initial strain, but it is known to spread more quickly than the initial strain.

Of course though the strain in itself may not be more deadly the fact that it is more transmissible will lead to more people being infected and more people dying. That is pretty much what happened in the UK with the so-called kent varient.

We all just need to be patient for a few more months. There's a lot this government has got wrong but this road map looks more attainable than anything that has been said or intimated previously.

Schools have gone back and so far infection rates have held. The vaccines, as long as they work and continue to do so, seem to be reducing hospitalisations and deaths. The former is key to us progressing out of this.

Foreign travel seems a bit crazy to contemplate right now. I wouldn't want to be going to continental Europe whilst their infection rates are so high and their medical sytems under enormous pressure and if the government here ban it for this summer then we'll just have to get on with it.

The big test will be the potential opening up of retail etc on 12th April. This is likely to see quite a spike in increased infection rates but hopefully by then most of the most vulnerable will have been vaccinated twice. Hopefully by the summer the one shot J&J vaccine will be available and that can be used on the younger population so they would be protected more quickly than requiring two shots.

I think it highly likely we will all need a booster shot to combat the new varients better in the autumn. So a bit like the flu jab really.

 

Have to admit I'm not normally especially optimistic but if we all stay patient for a bit longer I do think there is a chance of some kind of normality by the mid summer.

Edited 25 March 2021 by reynard

[yorkie1999]

11 hours ago, Otis said:

The South African strain is not believed to be more deadly than the initial strain, but it is known to spread more quickly than the initial strain.

The only way they can determine if it spreads more quickly is that more people catch it, if more people catch it, then more people will die from it which means it becomes more deadly simply through numbers.

 

Edit: what he just said.

Edited 25 March 2021 by yorkie1999

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Covid papers on entry to the pub is just suicide for the landlord if it's not mandatory. People will just go to the places that are closest to normality, those asking for papers will bottle it and scrap it very quickly. 

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, reynard said:

Have to admit I'm not normally especially optimistic but if we all stay patient for a bit longer I do think there is a chance of some kind of normality by the mid summer.

I don't think that sentence qualifies as optimism.   

Edited 25 March 2021 by dsr-burnley

[Alf Bentley]

28 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Covid papers on entry to the pub is just suicide for the landlord if it's not mandatory. People will just go to the places that are closest to normality, those asking for papers will bottle it and scrap it very quickly. 

 

The bloke from the J.W. Lees brewery was on Breakfast News. He pointed out that it was completely unworkable as most pub staff will not have been vaccinated - most being under 50 with no health vulnerabilities.

 

I suppose it might become viable in a few months, in theory. Whether it would be desirable or viable in practice is another matter......would the law/police step in when some pubs are lax about checking? Would that be a good use of legal/police resources? Presumably some sort of document would have to be produced that was difficult to forge.....I mean, a landlord can make a visual judgment as to whether someone is over 18, but would need a doc to tell whether they've been vaccinated.

 

Edited 25 March 2021 by Alf Bentley

[Sol thewall Bamba]

5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

The bloke from the J.W. Lees brewery was on Breakfast News. He pointed out that it was completely unworkable as most pub staff will not have been vaccinated - most being under 50 with no health vulnerabilities.

 

I suppose it might become viable in a few months, in theory. Whether it would be desirable or viable in practice is another matter......would the law/police step in when some pubs are lax about checking? Would that be a good use of legal/police resources? Presumably some sort of document would have to be produced that was difficult to forge.....I mean, a landlord can make a visual judgment as to whether someone is over 18, but would need a doc to tell whether they've been vaccinated.

If it's not mandatory the whole thing will fall on it's arse within a few weeks like the track and trace app did. 

[Kasey Keller]

Can’t see this papers in a pub getting off the ground.

you can’t put the responsibility on the individual landlord, that’s just a cop out from Boris.

any way if you did have to have a document or app to prove you have been vaccinated the black market for this shit would be rife with fakes. And who would have the staff and resources to enforce this sh!t at the door....young Chloe the barmaid who’s 18 telling a half cut Ian who’s 45 he can’t come in as he can’t provide a certificate........🤷🏻‍♂️

[SpacedX]

12 hours ago, Otis said:

There is no evidence of this.

 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/covid-variant#BRAdeadly

The Brazilian strain is not believed to be more deadly, but it does spread more easily than the original Covid-19 strain.

Sorry I should have clarified. The Brazilian P1 variants are concerning because they share similar mutations to the South Africa variant of concern and because they are highly contagious and may be more evasive are regarded as posing a greater thereat. A trio of mutations - K417T, E484K and N501Y is associated with increased binding to the human ACE2 receptor the protein on the cell surface functioning as an entrance into the cell for SARS-CoV-2. This makes it potentially more dangerous. 

 

“We found that the P.1 variant has notable differences compared to the previously circulating strains in Manaus. There was also evidence of an increase in mortality risk but whether this is due to P.1 or the extensive healthcare collapse Manaus has experienced remains uncertain”  Dr. Thomas Mellan, Imperial College London.

 

But it also gained the ability to infect some people who had immunity from previous bouts of Covid-19. I read a paper published last week on the P.1 second wave and for this reason it actually used the words 'more dangerous' in the abstract. I'll be ****ed if I can find it though. I think that you are right, it is generally better to guard against such rhetoric particularly given media sensationalism.

 

As I said in my original post, we simply don't yet know. What I find highly significant in respect of the second wave in Manaus is that that pursuing herd immunity through natural infection is not a guarantee and this has huge global ramifications. People on this thread desperate for normality to return seem to overlook that this is a global issue. A vaccination programme is only as good as the people it reaches. It's not simply about vaccinating the UK population - it's about vaccinating the world. To reiterate, we still don't know how long those vaccines provide immunity, the extent to which they prevent transmission, about the possibility of re-infection and enough about the variants. And people genuinely expected to be taking holidays abroad this year  The is evidence that P.1 could also weaken the effects of our current vaccines although likely not so significantly that they cannot be adjusted in response 

 

9 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

So what do we do about it?  We won't know any of the answers if we hide in cupboards for the rest of our lives. 

No one is suggesting that we do, but the world has changed - possibly forever. Our attempts to restore some semblance of our previous lives and return to our routines needs to be very gradual, measured and cautious this time. 

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

The bloke from the J.W. Lees brewery was on Breakfast News. He pointed out that it was completely unworkable as most pub staff will not have been vaccinated - most being under 50 with no health vulnerabilities.

 

I suppose it might become viable in a few months, in theory. Whether it would be desirable or viable in practice is another matter......would the law/police step in when some pubs are lax about checking? Would that be a good use of legal/police resources? Presumably some sort of document would have to be produced that was difficult to forge.....I mean, a landlord can make a visual judgment as to whether someone is over 18, but would need a doc to tell whether they've been vaccinated.

 

 

There is a suggestion that it could be incorporated into the NHS app, which is a problem to me as I don't want it on my phone.

 

It would also exclude those who cannot vaccinate (ie pregnant women) or those yet to have it (the young).

[Kasey Keller]

You’ve gotta feel for pubs and bars, if they do introduce this and have to implement it this is only gonna kick them in the balls again with further delays in reopening circa June 21st.....Boris is changing his mind every bleeding day....I DJ in a bar and I know the absolute carnage this would cause, no wonder some bar owners are calling time and selling up they can’t get a bloody break....

[filbertway]

24 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Covid papers on entry to the pub is just suicide for the landlord if it's not mandatory. People will just go to the places that are closest to normality, those asking for papers will bottle it and scrap it very quickly. 

If it's left to landlords then I imagine nobody will do it, it's a stupid idea as it's just a way of dividing people and causing arguments. There's enough childish adults out there that get into a frothing rage if someone has different political leanings to them. Imagine the aggro it'd cause with people drunk and getting into an argument about why someone has or hasn't been vaccinated.

 

A part of me does think, it's disappointing if you're not willing to make this tiny sacrifice to help get your country back on it's feet. Money is money though at the end of the day.

 

I'm also surprised there's such a debate about proving people have had a vaccine to be honest, I can't tell if it's just the media/power of social media or if there's genuinely a large number of people not willing to have a harmless vaccination to help the country out. Especially as the few people I've seen talking negatively about it on social media absolutely love bigging up our old war heroes who made a proper sacrifice.

[Leicester_Loyal]

26 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

There is a suggestion that it could be incorporated into the NHS app, which is a problem to me as I don't want it on my phone.

 

It would also exclude those who cannot vaccinate (ie pregnant women) or those yet to have it (the young).

The Tories don't want to implement it as they know it'll come back to bite them IMO. They'll leave it up to the landlords then say well we gave you the option.