Congratulations LCFC

[StriderHiryu]

7 minutes ago, kingfox said:

First half of the season was a big positive, second half of the season has been a huge negative.

 

As I debated argued with some fans yesterday, you just can’t brush our form since Christmas under the carpet, all because we’ve secured European Football.

 

We have a young talented squad, no doubt about that but we need to start delivering consistently. Questions need to be asked how we went from 2nd and having a 14 point gap, to potentially 5th and failing to get Champions League football.

 

This has been a season with positives that equally weigh with negatives.

 

Rodgers needs to get it right this summer, especially in the transfer market. Plus he needs to get it right on the pitch when the season starts again, we need to start finding that consistency again. You can be overly positive as much as you want, you can clutch at excuses as to why our form has dipped, but you also have to find that balance of realism, I’ve been highly critical of Rodgers recently but I’ve never said I’ve wanted him out, but if our current form continues into next season, he’ll be gone I’m afraid.

That's a well-reasoned response to the situation. 

 

I do worry about next season, because right now we look a bit like Spurs at the end of Poch's reign where the CL final disguised the fact they had been awful in the league for a long period. There is a very short break between this season and the next, and if we don't massively raise our game we are going to be in big trouble. I can definitely see a situation where we can't pull ourselves out from the mental hole we've dug ourselves into, which I hope doesn't happen. 

 

That said for me I am still very pro-Rodgers. He had the team playing the best stuff I have seen in my lifetime and getting fantastic results during the first half of the season. All this despite having a very modest net transfer spend. To play the type of football he wants, he needs to be backed with genuine top quality attacking players, which other than Vardy we've been missing all season long. That doesn't necessarily mean letting him have full control over who he wants as we saw that backfire at Liverpool, but our recruitment team is generally very good. Get the man some more players that make goal contributions! Compare our forward line and options to Liverpool, Man City, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea... only Vardy is of the requisite quality. 

[That_Dude]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Agreed, can anyone come up with a similar example of when a team has nose dived like us and blown titles/CL qualification and then come back under that same regime and been a success? The obvious one at a lower level being us under Pearson after the 2012/13 debacle and then pissed the league in 2013/14. Newcastle under Keegan were never the same were they? Spurs in 2005/06 under Martin Jol was a big disappointment that after being in the top 4 the majority of the season then dropped out on the last day of the season after that wafty lasagne, they had a fairly decent season the following year and finished 5th but it was their final 3rd of the season that they really improved, think there was a bit of a hangover from the previous seasons disappointment.

Can't think of any other example beside the obvious Newcastle one but should we indeed lose against Man United, there will be a hangover. It's inevitable imo. How Rodgers will work on that and get them firing in the next season is the real question and some good summer signings are vital. It still is doable though

 

I can also think of Klopp and how he came back from a defeat in the CL final to win it the next year. Same for the PL.

[Ollie93]

22 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Well it's obviously a bit of both, right? That's how tables work. 

 

I do agree that with the gap we had, it was in our hands. I also think it's tighter than it looks. Even since the restart:

• One lapse - Watford equaliser - 2 points dropped
• VAR doesn't give pen for handball in 92nd vs Brighton - 2 points dropped
• Schmeichel's goal kick doesn't leave the box - 3 points dropped
• Lloris makes a worldie save vs Perez at 0-1 - 3 points dropped 

The two highlighted were far more than that. Rodgers playing 2 CDMs against Brighton was stupid.

 

We should've won the game against Bournemouth well before Schmeicels error. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

11 minutes ago, Ollie93 said:

The two highlighted were far more than that. Rodgers playing 2 CDMs against Brighton was stupid.

 

We should've won the game against Bournemouth well before Schmeicels error. 

Well that's why I say fine margins, because all other things being equal, those factors still made the difference.  

[Ollie93]

1 minute ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Well that's why I say fine margins, because all other things being equal, those factors still made the difference.  

So what's your position, do you think its a failure? 

[sacreblueits442]

37 minutes ago, Gwyn said:

And that's the whole point we cannot compete transfer wise which makes it even better of a achievement 

..no!!!

We have capitulated, all other teams just needed to be average and they made up the points difference.

  You really need to stop making excuses and accept that we failed to achieve what we should have. It is thinking like this which Rogers seemed to have clung unto instead of setting the team up to compete, instead of hoping they would play themselves back into form.

[kingfox]

25 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Agreed, can anyone come up with a similar example of when a team has nose dived like us and blown titles/CL qualification and then come back under that same regime and been a success? The obvious one at a lower level being us under Pearson after the 2012/13 debacle and then pissed the league in 2013/14. Newcastle under Keegan were never the same were they? Spurs in 2005/06 under Martin Jol was a big disappointment that after being in the top 4 the majority of the season then dropped out on the last day of the season after that wafty lasagne, they had a fairly decent season the following year and finished 5th but it was their final 3rd of the season that they really improved, think there was a bit of a hangover from the previous seasons disappointment.

Of course this can go one of two ways. We finally have a resurgence, we get our form and consistency back and everything is hunky-dory. Or we could be on here in a few months time, our form has drifted into next season, performances continue to be uninspiring and more fans are calling for Brendan’s head.

 

Even though we’ve secured European Football, this is a big big summer, not only in the transfer market but our mentality must change, both on the pitch and from the management.

 

I hope we can get back to consistent ways; however right now there’s quite a few signs that worry me. 
 

12 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

That's a well-reasoned response to the situation. 

 

I do worry about next season, because right now we look a bit like Spurs at the end of Poch's reign where the CL final disguised the fact they had been awful in the league for a long period. There is a very short break between this season and the next, and if we don't massively raise our game we are going to be in big trouble. I can definitely see a situation where we can't pull ourselves out from the mental hole we've dug ourselves into, which I hope doesn't happen. 

 

That said for me I am still very pro-Rodgers. He had the team playing the best stuff I have seen in my lifetime and getting fantastic results during the first half of the season. All this despite having a very modest net transfer spend. To play the type of football he wants, he needs to be backed with genuine top quality attacking players, which other than Vardy we've been missing all season long. That doesn't necessarily mean letting him have full control over who he wants as we saw that backfire at Liverpool, but our recruitment team is generally very good. Get the man some more players that make goal contributions! Compare our forward line and options to Liverpool, Man City, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea... only Vardy is of the requisite quality. 

Spot on as usual Strider 

 

He must get it right in many ways over the Summer like I’ve mentioned already. 
 

A few pointers though from your last paragraph, of course we don’t have the options compared to other teams, we are over reliant on Vardy, but I think you can agree that other players must do better.

 

James Maddison for example, as much as fans and media like to hype him up, his consistency has been appalling ever since we signed him. His form this season has just been like last season, first 4-5 months were great, last 4-5 months were poor. Harvey Barnes and Ayoze Perez have also been incredibly inconsistent, and you can argue that Barnes is inexperienced at this level but he must start doing better, if not then his progress will stagnate and he’ll be out the team. Iheanacho’s form has been a breath of fresh air though, yet Rodgers seems to have singled him out and dropped him, terrible management.

 

It’s easy to say that a couple of new wingers will instantly fix things, it might do, but this teams consistency and mentality must change if we want to challenge the top six again.

 

You take certain players out of this team and we tend to drop like a stone. Ndidi got injured, our form got worse, Ricardo got injured our form continued to get worse. We are over reliant on certain players, the younger players have time to develop, yet if they and the team want to head in the right direction, they must become consistent and mentally stronger.

[mozartfox]

Surely if every other team applies the same rationale that they should have beaten X and not drawn with Y because of a dodgy Referring decision, we still might be where are now, a very respectable 4th/5th in the hardest domestic football league in the World? It is how it is. We cannot turn the clock back.

 

Great job done BR et al.  Recruit well and learn by your mistakes, and cut out offering the sentimental playing contracts as yesterday proved this is not going to work against pace and mobility.

[Les-TA-Jon]

16 minutes ago, Ollie93 said:

So what's your position, do you think its a failure? 

Well as I say, I think it can be both right? Recent context of all the things I listed, plus the medium term context of having been a mid table side, and the longer term context of our overall history means finishing 4th or 5th is a massive achievement. 

 

But missing out on CL from the position we were in at one stage is also disappointing and a failure, in that sense. The summer window and how we respond in the early part of next season will be particularly telling. 

[brucey]

I really dislike the phrase "you would have taken x at the start of the season", as that was used against us a lot after the Ranieri sacking. "You would have taken winning the PL then going down the season after, so you should have just let him take you down". 

 

But I don't think this season has been bad all things considered. Not because I would have taken 5th at the start of the season (we all would), but because I have some sympathy for the injuries and inexperience of the team (this includes Rodgers inexperience of managing against better sides due to Celtic's dominance). We were bound to be inconsistent. 

 

[st albans fox]

Yeah - delighted to be wolves .....  well worth all the stress of the past few weeks !!

 

 

[wardyfox86]

Even with the bluest of blue tinted specs, it's hard to argue that Europa League isn't around our level.

 

We have been less than great against anybody considered a top side in the league, and the CL is full of those.

 

Still an outside chance of CL but I'm over it and looking forward to a spot of European football next season in a competition that is about where we are at currently. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

2 hours ago, lcfceaves said:

From the position we were in, this is a failure. You can dress it up and be positive all you like... but for me, it’s a failure... and no matter what dross players and managers might come out with in press conferences, they’ll be thinking exactly the same thing... failure. 

 

1 hour ago, Ollie93 said:

Couldn't agree more, from the position we were in, 14 points clear of 5th in January, this is a failure. It's a defeatist mentality to say "well at least we are still 5th".

One person's "failure" or "defeatist mentality" is another person's pragmatic response.

One person's "glass half empty" is another person's "glass half full."

 

It is possible to be gutted that we've slumped from where we were (after playing the most scintillating, delightful football in my almost 40 years of watching them) to being happy that we've made massive progress in 18 months under BR, achieving one of the top five highest finishes in our entire history and securing European football.

 

In a few years time, when the dust has settled, the slump will barely get a mention when we discuss our history.

[StriderHiryu]

20 minutes ago, kingfox said:

 

He must get it right in many ways over the Summer like I’ve mentioned already. 
 

A few pointers though from your last paragraph, of course we don’t have the options compared to other teams, we are over reliant on Vardy, but I think you can agree that other players must do better.

 

James Maddison for example, as much as fans and media like to hype him up, his consistency has been appalling ever since we signed him. His form this season has just been like last season, first 4-5 months were great, last 4-5 months were poor. Harvey Barnes and Ayoze Perez have also been incredibly inconsistent, and you can argue that Barnes is inexperienced at this level but he must start doing better, if not then his progress will stagnate and he’ll be out the team. Iheanacho’s form has been a breath of fresh air though, yet Rodgers seems to have singled him out and dropped him, terrible management.

 

It’s easy to say that a couple of new wingers will instantly fix things, it might do, but this teams consistency and mentality must change if we want to challenge the top six again.

 

You take certain players out of this team and we tend to drop like a stone. Ndidi got injured, our form got worse, Ricardo got injured our form continued to get worse. We are over reliant on certain players, the younger players have time to develop, yet if they and the team want to head in the right direction, they must become consistent and mentally stronger.

Yeah very much agreed. Maddison especially went from being statistically one of the best attacking players in the country to one of the worst. That is to be expected from young players, but they've got to start producing consistently. Mahrez was 25 I think during our title winning year, Maddison is now 23, so not that big a difference. Barnes is still raw and Perez was renowned for being inconsistent at Newcastle. Chilwell and Gray are also hot and cold players, as is Tielemans, though he's been better in recent weeks. Leicester's consistent players are Vardy, Ndidi, Ricardo, Evans, Soyuncu and Kasper. And only two of these are really attacking players for us.  

 

I do agree with the mentality and would say that perhaps we could do with another experienced player that is a born winner in the team. But we've already got Kasper, Evans and Vardy and still have these issues. We do lack a player that can grab the game by the scruff of the neck and change it completely, but those players are very hard to come by. Realistically for us it should be Tielemans or Maddison that does this for us, like David Silva or KDB do for Man City. But then look at the game against Arsenal at the weekend, both were on the pitch, as was Mahrez and all 3 were dog muck!

 

Overall though, whilst the end of the season is a huge disappointment, even if we somehow do get Champions League, with our squad we are punching massively above our weight. 

[Ric Flair]

I wonder what Chris Wilder would make of his side if they did what we have done, it would be a fascinating watch.

[RonnieTodger]

I think the fact that we can implode like we have and still finish 5th speaks volumes about the other teams in this league

[DerbyshireFox]

If you step back and take a look at it, we have had a very good, if not brilliant season. We would have snapped your hand off for a top five finish at the start of it all. As it’s panned out,  top four became more realistic than we thought possible because of firstly how phenomenal we were up to Christmas, and secondly, the ‘big six’ (bar the top two) were even weaker than we had imagined. The concern was always whether we had the depth to sustain our excellent form, and the answer is clearly a resounding no! We didn’t have the ability, or didn’t see the value in spending big in January (not a market we traditionally are very active) in comparison to others who did - Fernandes, Bergwijn etc. I think the break has undoubtedly helped the clubs with bigger squads. Man United and Spurs have been able to play key players who wouldn’t have otherwise been available to them - Kane would not have been firing on all cylinders yesterday for instance. We found ourselves a 4-0 win before football stopped, any possible momentum from that result was taken away by lockdown. We lost Ricardo in that game, and we have been decimated by injuries since. Barnes was finding form and finishing chances pre lockdown, looks completely off it again since. However, mentality is clearly an issue, and one that needs addressing. Dropping a 14 point cushion, even with everything we have contended with is still unacceptable, and we have left ourselves in a position we shouldn’t have put ourselves in. Credit to those sides who have got players back, they have still had to produce and have done so. European football and top five is undoubtedly fantastic, but I worry Europa league lets some of them off the hook. I hope if we do miss out on Champions League it fires them up coming back to it. It will be undoubtedly harder next season. If we can sustain regular top six finishes, which is a huge challenge, and get into Europe or win a trophy/get close, I don’t think any of us realistically could complain!

[Ross 'LCFC' Turner]

When the dust settles, I think we'll look back on this season as a successful one.

 

Right now we are all hurting, frustrated, angry and rightly so.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, irishfoxkev said:

Still hoping there will be a few surprise results this week and for a good result next Sunday for us...Man Utd looked a very tired jaded team yesterday and have to play again on Wed before us on Sunday....Not making top 4 will be disappointing but guaranteed 5th has to be applauded......Without making this an end of season review  in my view there a a few critical events which determined our season

1/ Fixture list....Our  run of consecutive wins came to surprising end at home to Norwich...We needed a couple of games against lower placed team to regain momentum but unfortunately next  2 games were Man City and Liverpool and 2 heavy defeats...momentum and self belief badly damaged 

2/ Injuries.....every team has injuries but I feel losing N’Didi for was it 6 or 7 matches early New Year really hurt us

He was back for the thumping of Villa at home but then we lost the other of what I think are our 2 world class players  in Ricardo. Add Chilwell and Maddison to that since restart and obvious we were going to struggle. 

3/ Coronavirus.....Enforced break hurt us whilst others benefitted.....We had our mojo back in the defeat of Villa and I feel we would have taken this into the matches which ultimately may  cost us Champions League Watford away and Brighton home

Man Utd are the only team who can take our place in top four and the break assisted them as they got Rashford fit and back . They were the only team that I can see that also benefitted from a quiet Jan transfer window with Fernandes turning them around. 

 

As I said at outset it ain’t over yet ...Our last 2 home games were impressive...scored 5 conceded none....Its a long shot but still doable 🦊🦊🦊🦊

 

 

 I can’t agree agree with this.

 

1. The fixtures came in the wrong order. 
2. Injuries. Chilwell is no loss, Maddison arguably should have been dropped anyway. Ndiddi has been piss poor since the restart. 
It’s self inflicted anyway as no signings were made in January, apart from what looks an awful move for Bennett. Top 4 sides do not sign other teams cast offs.

3. Coronavirus and it’s timing.

Weve been shit since before Christmas - nothing to do with the break. It’s been the same for everybody.

 

These are very poor excuses for some shocking performances from both players and the manager. Start the same way next season and he’ll be sacked, as we look like one of the worst teams in the division. 
 

Norwich have took 4 pts off us ffs, not to mention being mullered by Bournemouth

[sacreblueits442]

57 minutes ago, brucey said:

I really dislike the phrase "you would have taken x at the start of the season", as that was used against us a lot after the Ranieri sacking. "You would have taken winning the PL then going down the season after, so you should have just let him take you down". 

 

But I don't think this season has been bad all things considered. Not because I would have taken 5th at the start of the season (we all would), but because I have some sympathy for the injuries and inexperience of the team (this includes Rodgers inexperience of managing against better sides due to Celtic's dominance). We were bound to be inconsistent. 

 

...It wasn't the better sides that stumped him!!!

[coolhandfox]

Anyone who thinks this is failure hasn't been a City fan for long............

[Ric Flair]

46 minutes ago, Ross 'LCFC' Turner said:

When the dust settles, I think we'll look back on this season as a successful one.

 

Right now we are all hurting, frustrated, angry and rightly so.

Only if we do ok next season, if we continue to struggle then the hatred for how we capitulated this season will persist.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I wonder what Chris Wilder would make of his side if they did what we have done, it would be a fascinating watch.

[TRAD-DAD]

4 hours ago, jonthefox said:

I'm happy with the end result. Also, i can't help but think that the Europa league is better suited to us right now. 

But it's not about suitability it's about the money difference. No doubt about it the revenue loss from not getting into the champions league  and our ability to keep players and recruit top players for next season has taken a massive blow.

[Dahnsouff]

3 hours ago, That_Dude said:

This has to be the understatement of the year.

 

I quite like your posts in general but aren't you pushing it a bit here?

 

You bet they'll have regrets and big ones at that. I would. I sometimes couldn't sleep after a defeat whilst playing at a level waaaaaay below. We're talking about professionals, fierce competitors who aim for the top. Pride in what? Bottling a 15 points lead, crumbling at the slightest pressure, failing to win any big game? There ain't no pride in that, I know it, you know it, they know it and the manager knows it too.

 

Now I'm all for positive posts to counter-balance the negativity of the last weeks, and I myself am guilty of that, but this kind of Pravda style threads, up there with the "King Brendan, Best Thing since Sliced Bread" one kinda irk me.

 

Yes, 5th is a very good result, there's no question about it. No way at the beginning of the season I'd have expected us to be where we actually are. Rodgers did a fantastic job, in the first half of the season. After that, well it's not that rosy and injuries don't explain it all. Covid affected every single team and is not a valid argument to me. This should be acknowledged too and put in the equation.

 

I do hope that, as you said, that they learn from this season and come back stronger in the next one. Because it will be one hell of a ride otherwise.

 

Of course you will have regrets, as will I, but I am just some bloke who knows nothing about what is actually going on, and worse, I am a supporter! 

Creating a judgement on the season is clearly difficult, purely because whilst we were epic in the first half we were somewhat less so in comparison in the second half. 

Let see where we end up and do even better next year!