Premier League 2020/21 Thread

[Hollyfox]

10 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Spurs are not winning the league, be serious people.

 

Can't see past Liverpool, but think the VVD injury is a big loss, which will actually make the race a lot closer than it was going to be.

 

Nice to see others in the top 4/6 for once, long may it continue.

I guess it'll depend on how long it takes for the usual culprits to get their shit together. 

If us, Wolves and Everton can hang around that top 4,it could be very interesting as everyone will take points and drop points. 

 

[420Hashish]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/27/fa-launches-diversity-code-with-19-premier-league-clubs-on-board

 

I mean, shouldn't jobs be given based on qualifications and not race and gender? 

[FoyleFox]

9 minutes ago, 420Hashish said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/27/fa-launches-diversity-code-with-19-premier-league-clubs-on-board

 

I mean, shouldn't jobs be given based on qualifications and not race and gender? 

They should yes, unfortunately, historically jobs have been given on race and gender. Hence the need for equality legislation.

[casablancas]

10 hours ago, 420Hashish said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/27/fa-launches-diversity-code-with-19-premier-league-clubs-on-board

 

I mean, shouldn't jobs be given based on qualifications and not race and gender? 

No. Because it has not been happening. The fact a diversity quota is needed should tell you all about it. Name me a BAME coach across the top leagues, chief execs, referees etc. I get that it may not come across as meritocracy but football has problems with pathways for BAME. Can you not see that? 

[420Hashish]

1 hour ago, casablancas said:

No. Because it has not been happening. The fact a diversity quota is needed should tell you all about it. Name me a BAME coach across the top leagues, chief execs, referees etc. I get that it may not come across as meritocracy but football has problems with pathways for BAME. Can you not see that? 

I'm sure if there was a BAME manager who was qualified, they'd get the job, like Nuno Santos from Wolves. 

 

Just like there are a lot of BAME players that are Pl quality: Son, Salah, Mendy, Rashford, Mings, Morgan, etc. 

Edited 28 October 2020 by 420Hashish

[RumbleFox]

12 hours ago, 420Hashish said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/27/fa-launches-diversity-code-with-19-premier-league-clubs-on-board

 

I mean, shouldn't jobs be given based on qualifications and not race and gender? 

Yes they should which is exactly why we have initiatives like this one because, historically, they have not been. X

[Aus Fox]

1 hour ago, casablancas said:

No. Because it has not been happening. The fact a diversity quota is needed should tell you all about it. Name me a BAME coach across the top leagues, chief execs, referees etc. I get that it may not come across as meritocracy but football has problems with pathways for BAME. Can you not see that? 

Chris Powell, Chris Houghton, Ashley Cole, Nuno,, Kolo Toure, the list is getting longer in the top flight . There are many different coaches and chief executives from all over the world right now.

In my opinion a quota is never a good idea and doesn’t promote equality, in fact quite the opposite.

Edited 28 October 2020 by Aus Fox

[RumbleFox]

3 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

Chris Powell, Chris Houghton, Ashley Cole, Nuno,, Kolo Toure, the list is getting longer in the top flight . There are many different coaches and chief executives from all over the world right now.

In my opinion a quota is never a good idea and doesn’t promote equality, in fact quite the opposite.

Approximately 6 managers are BAME across England’s top leagues which equates to just over 6%. The UK BAME population is approximately 14% so something is not quite equal somewhere. Things are improving and in an ideal world we would not need quotas but we’re not there yet.  Baffled that anyone could see this as anything but a positive initiative. X 

Edited 28 October 2020 by RumbleFox

[TRAD-DAD]

16 hours ago, 420Hashish said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/27/fa-launches-diversity-code-with-19-premier-league-clubs-on-board

 

I mean, shouldn't jobs be given based on qualifications and not race and gender? 

Welcome to the "new" order.

[casablancas]

12 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

Approximately 6 managers are BAME across England’s top leagues which equates to just over 6%. The UK BAME population is approximately 14% so something is not quite equal somewhere. Things are improving and in an ideal world we would not need quotas but we’re not there yet.  Baffled that anyone could see this as anything but a positive initiative. X 

Thank fcuk for you rumble x

[RumbleFox]

32 minutes ago, casablancas said:

Thank fcuk for you rumble x

Literally only person in the world that thinks that haha. Thanks dude. X 

[Mickyblueeyes]

17 hours ago, FoyleFox said:

They should yes, unfortunately, historically jobs have been given on race and gender. Hence the need for equality legislation.

Yep. It’s like this in “real life” as well. There is a reason that campaigns such as black lives matter or no to racism gain so much traction. Unless you have been victim to such discrimination, it’s very hard to understand. A lot of the criticism of such campaigns are from those who haven’t really felt the impact. 

[walkerleeds]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54716149

 

Well done Manchester United. A top club being proactive by modifying their stadium to make it 'safe', whilst calling out the inept handling of fans' return in the process.

[BKLFox]

7 minutes ago, walkerleeds said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54716149

 

Well done Manchester United. A top club being proactive by modifying their stadium to make it 'safe', whilst calling out the inept handling of fans' return in the process.

A very 1 eyed view, it’s very easy to spread people out once in a stadium, an 8yr old can organise that but what part of their proactivity gets those 23.5k people to and from and into the stadium safely, there’s a little more to it than moving a few seats around.

 

[FoyleFox]

Inside the stadium has never been the main issue, allocating socially distanced seating for 10,000 people in a 35,000 seater stadium isn't difficult.  There was an article recently from somone who deals in planning for large environments and disaster planning etc. They highlighted that the issues to overcome are in relation to using public transport to travel to stadiums, accessing the stadium, flow of people inside the buildings, space inside concourses for toilets etc. Some grounds it's significantly easier to manage those things than others.

 

Not to dismiss that clubs are proactively making plans but as stated it's not the fans in seats that is the complication.

Edited 28 October 2020 by FoyleFox

[st albans fox]

29 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

Inside the stadium has never been the main issue, allocating socially distanced seating for 10,000 people in a 35,000 seater stadium isn't difficult.  There was an article recently from somone who deals in planning for large environments and disaster planning etc. They highlighted that the issues to overcome are in relation to using public transport to travel to stadiums, accessing the stadium, flow of people inside the buildings, space inside concourses for toilets etc. Some grounds it's significantly easier to manage those things than others.

 

Not to dismiss that clubs are proactively making plans but as stated it's not the fans in seats that is the complication.

can't argue with any of that but it seems that clubs and fans across the continent are trusted to host/attend.  i don't think its rocket science - close all pubs within a 1 mile radius three hours before and three hours after.  give people an fifteen minute window to arrive in. if you miss your window then don't bother to try and get in. if you have an early arrival time then you get an early leaving time. as you say, managing safe flow inside the stadium is possible to achieve.  i think the authorities would get a better response from the public re all the restrictions if they explained everything and trusted us more. 

[OntarioFox]

On 26/10/2020 at 18:11, theessexfox said:

I’m increasingly thinking Harry Kane is actually a thoroughly likeable bloke, also a phenomenal player.

It's good to see him turning producer for Son. He's always been a top-class finisher, but my main criticism of him has always been that he's too selfish. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing when you're scoring for fun, but is ultimately to the detriment of the team's success if you have goals all over the pitch.

 

I look back to the title season, where he pipped Vards to the golden boot by one goal, but only clocked one assist all season IIRC, compared to Jamie's 6. We know how lethal Vards is, but there's never been a point in his career where you can think of him regularly taking shots when a lay-off was available. His chance to get on the score sheet at Swansea to extend his record streak, where he instead laid it off for Mahrez to score, speaks volumes for the teamwork that's always been part of Jamie's game.

 

It isn't really Kane's fault. Teams are set up around him, with the sole purpose of 'find Kane with a sight of goal and let him do the rest'. The eventual result was stagnation, and why by the end of Poch's tenure Spurs only looked a threat when he was not playing and Son was leading the line instead. He's never been asked to drop back and help those around him until Mourinho came in.

 

With the attacking talent we have in the ranks now, Southgate would be wise to adopt a similar approach to England. Our football on a national level currently looks far better with Kane off the pitch IMO.

[walkerleeds]

Perhaps I should have clarified, well done to a top club for 'publicly' declaring their stadium Covid safe. I'm fairly sure they haven't worked out how to allocate X amount of fans in a big stadium then patted themselves on the back and gone for a pint. Flow of people etc, will all be worked out, given how many entrances and entrances/ exits most stadiums have these days, though I appreciate stadiums such as Goodison may find this difficult.

 

We're in a situation whereby people are physically attending stadiums matches are being played at, to watch sport on TV, with curtains drawn to stop people looking at the pitch. It's ludicrous. I appreciate we don't want a few thousand people (at worst) travelling from outside Cities to stadia, but let's be realistic, how many ST holders realistically would we have from outside Leicester attending the KP?

 

I suspect this is probably a conversation for another thread, but here we are!

Edited 28 October 2020 by walkerleeds

[Nalis]

30 minutes ago, OntarioFox said:

It's good to see him turning producer for Son. He's always been a top-class finisher, but my main criticism of him has always been that he's too selfish. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing when you're scoring for fun, but is ultimately to the detriment of the team's success if you have goals all over the pitch.

 

I look back to the title season, where he pipped Vards to the golden boot by one goal, but only clocked one assist all season IIRC, compared to Jamie's 6. We know how lethal Vards is, but there's never been a point in his career where you can think of him regularly taking shots when a lay-off was available. His chance to get on the score sheet at Swansea to extend his record streak, where he instead laid it off for Mahrez to score, speaks volumes for the teamwork that's always been part of Jamie's game.

 

It isn't really Kane's fault. Teams are set up around him, with the sole purpose of 'find Kane with a sight of goal and let him do the rest'. The eventual result was stagnation, and why by the end of Poch's tenure Spurs only looked a threat when he was not playing and Son was leading the line instead. He's never been asked to drop back and help those around him until Mourinho came in.

 

With the attacking talent we have in the ranks now, Southgate would be wise to adopt a similar approach to England. Our football on a national level currently looks far better with Kane off the pitch IMO.

Maybe his new provider/scorer role will help England though and will get the most out of the likes of Sterling and Sancho?

[420Hashish]

22 hours ago, FoyleFox said:

They should yes, unfortunately, historically jobs have been given on race and gender. Hence the need for equality legislation.

Well I'm considered in the minority then, but I still feel qualifications should be what determines a job. Would you be happy if we sacked Rodgers for Hughton to fill the 'equality' quota? 

Edited 28 October 2020 by 420Hashish

[casablancas]

25 minutes ago, 420Hashish said:

Well I'm considered in the minority then, but I still feel qualifications should be what determines a job. Would you be happy if we sacked Rodgers for Houghton to fill the 'equality' quota? 

That’s not the case though is it?

[FoyleFox]

38 minutes ago, 420Hashish said:

Well I'm considered in the minority then, but I still feel qualifications should be what determines a job. Would you be happy if we sacked Rodgers for Houghton to fill the 'equality' quota? 

No, they're not equally experienced/qualified.  The issue has been in all walks of life where there are 2 people equally qualified but someone isn't given a position due to their race or gender. Historically, it occurred that an under qualified person was promoted or appointed due to race and gender - white males were appointed, the idea of equality is that you don't discriminate against equally qualified people. This practice discouraged people for applying for positions, I hope what they are trying to do is encourage people who are appropriately experienced and qualified to apply. I don't agree with appointing someone if it fills a quota but they're not qualified.

 

Not that many years ago Rogers wouldn't have been appointed on his race/nationality.

Edited 28 October 2020 by FoyleFox

[AjcW]

34 minutes ago, 420Hashish said:

Well I'm considered in the minority then, but I still feel qualifications should be what determines a job. Would you be happy if we sacked Rodgers for Houghton to fill the 'equality' quota? 

This is being put in place to encourage people to take their qualifications. It's not a case of giving someone a job 'just because'

 

At the minute there's no motivation for BAME candidates to take their badges because they're presented with a bleak view of employment prospects afterwards.

 

Essentially, with this in place, people will take their qualifications and then be hired.

 

So there won't be a case of someone who is less qualified being hired 

 

Also i'd hazard a guess that BR and Houghton have the same badges? Probably spent a similar amount of time managing a Premier League side also. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

28 minutes ago, 420Hashish said:

Well I'm considered in the minority then, but I still feel qualifications should be what determines a job. Would you be happy if we sacked Rodgers for Houghton to fill the 'equality' quota? 

What you're concerned with is not what is being aimed for nor implied. What a quota or policy like this recognises is that industry fails to provide opportunity to those from a minority background who do have the necessary qualifications. Basically, they're not getting enough at interview stage. This doesn't just affect football but the vast amount of high paying, well established professions. Law is a great example and continues to have issues despite various policies and attempts to change this. 

 

There is no chance nor intention for a policy like this to give someone an advantage and an opportunity to obtain a job they're not qualified to do. 

 

Like I said, its a problem of society that needs resolution. Its not just race that is a issue. Very talented female executives, in 2020 are still paid less then a lot of their male counterparts and people from a less privileged background, despite their achievements are often overlooked. Unless one has felt such discrimination, I completely understand why its difficult to understand. 

 

The "knee" pre-game was an attempt to highlight this issue. It was certainly not the solution. The solution is putting in place steps such as this where people of all colours and sexes have an equal footing from interview stage - the clubs signing up to aims so that the work force represents a percentage of those considered "minorities" is just reflective of the wider population. 

 

 

[ealingfox]

1 hour ago, 420Hashish said:

Well I'm considered in the minority then, but I still feel qualifications should be what determines a job. Would you be happy if we sacked Rodgers for Houghton to fill the 'equality' quota? 

 

Former Liverpool and Ireland midfielder Ray Houghton? That would be pretty random as I dont believe he's a coach or manager.