Set pieces

[blaaklint]

Also worth saying that there's a very good reason so few corners beat the first man. If you do want to maximise your chances of scoring from a corner, statistics say the best place to meet the ball is a metre or so behind the first man. Obviously that's a very small target, hence so many corners hitting the first guy.

[SuperMike]

We'll continue to concede from corners as Kasper WILL NOT come out, even 4 yards, to claim the ball or punch it . For all the world it looks as though he is scared to death of getting clattered.

[Collymore]

2 hours ago, blaaklint said:

Not when you consider that only 1 in 16 of those shots go in, typically. Most of those shots are headers with a player putting pressure on the shooter and a lot of bodies between them and the goal.

I think our shots on goal to goals ratio is much higher than other teams though. Well it is with Vardy anyway...

[blaaklint]

9 hours ago, Collymore said:

I think our shots on goal to goals ratio is much higher than other teams though. Well it is with Vardy anyway...

Vardy isn't the one getting the chances from corners though. Plus I think part of the reason Vardy's conversion rate is because he doesn't take wasteful shots. A header from a corner is about as likely to go in as a shot from 25m out.

[sacreblueits442]

On 22/11/2020 at 21:14, brucey said:

Ndidi back will help

...not if we stick to zonal marketing!!!

Vardy also helps out on the near post and I do not want him or Barnes to be anywhere near our box when we are defending a corner. That will force them to keep people back and with a touch of composure we can counter from the second ball with two flying machines available.

  Fofana is said to be spring heeled and if you have to do a standing jump instead of attacking space then we have lost an advantage.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Take mads off them. We won't, but we should. So as we won't, get him practicing even more dead balls, especially corners and in dangerous areas. I'd think he does this a lot already, but even if he does it for an hour, make him do 3 because he can not clear the first man. It's actually diabolical how bad they are. 

[sacreblueits442]

On 22/11/2020 at 21:31, themightyfin said:

Really not true. Only 1 in 29 corners lead to a goal within 10 seconds of it being taken. Statistically its more likely fir the defending to to  score on the break.

...in that case, we are nowhere near those stats, perhaps someone should have told them players about it!!!

[Tom12345]

On 23/11/2020 at 13:54, Poco said:

Spot on. Why does Maddison have to take every set-piece? (until Under came on, anyway). I find it interesting that for England, and now for Chelsea, Chilwell is given some responsibility for set-plays; I don't think he ever took one for us! How many times does Maddison have to hit the first defender before Brendan realises that he might not be the best option for taking corners?

Never. Obvious blind spot of Brendan’s and some of our fans who rather than watch the games and judge for themselves get brainwashed by pundits on TV that started calling Maddison things like “deadball specialist” or “he normally is so good at deadballs” etc for no good reason. Madders hardly clears the first man and the labels started soon after he started games for us and hogged all the deadballs. Nothing against Madders, it is ok not to be the best at it, but it is frustrating when he hogs them all and does not share them around especially when we have other takers (and in the past Chilwell who is surprisingly not a bad taker). We have seen others wanted to take them only for Madders to call them off (others started to seem upset especially Under, Tielemans and Albrighton on a few recent occasions).

 

By the way, Under only took one freekick (there was one other that Madders did not want him to take but rolled the ball to him unexpectedly) and not any corners in the last game.

[sacreblueits442]

On 23/11/2020 at 13:01, Les-TA-Jon said:

Corners as goal scoring opportunities are completely overvalued by football fans.

 

Obviously we're not very good at attacking them, but to view them as good goal scoring opportunities that we're simply not taking just doesn't stand up to the data. 

 

 

The key stats:

• Only 3% of corners indirectly lead to a goal
• 40% don't clear the first man
• Only 16% result in an attempt on goal
• Only 7% result in an on target attempt on goal
• Only 1% directly lead to a goal

...so just clearing the first man exponentially increases our chance at an attempt on goal to perhaps a  1 in 2 ratio!!!

[Tom12345]

On 23/11/2020 at 05:13, lcfc_forever said:

After that performance, an obvious thread to start.

 

Been thinking about this for some time how poor we are offensively from set pieces. Today, we were shocking defensively as well. 

 

Time and time again, our corners and free kicks were easily cleared and sometimes we were in danger of the counter-attack. Maddison's delivery has been usually poor. 

 

They are such an efficient, cheap way to score goals yet for some reason, we haven't seen them as a priority. 

 

A brilliant team like Liverpool clearly work on them to get to the level they're at. 

 

Big supporter of Rodgers but this is a huge blindspot, and has been for some time. 

Agree with what you said. This has been a controversial topic for a long time as every time this was raised in the past it was vigorously defended by quite a few fans including by quoting the no of chances created statistically - which of course naturally corresponds with the number of corners and freekicks he takes but there is little correlation with how good or bad those deliveries are.

 

I am glad you started this thread as it is an obvious topic to discuss.  At the least Madders should share the kicks around and Rodgers should be the one who makes the call  - but he seemed not brave enough to tell Madders. This will create tension not only on FT (we don’t want that now do we as fans will get frustrated at Madders but Rodgers is the one who should make the call) but also potentially the players especially now with Under who seemed a bit more forceful. Tielemans and Albrighton have also been observed to wanted to take them on occasions and seemed to get a little upset but still yielded the ball to Madders with a smile. Not great for their confidence to have someone not great at it take over from them. Also, quite often Madders is all the way over on the other side of the pitch yet we have to wait for him to stroll all the way to take it only for it not to clear the first man - why?

[zorro en españa]

This thread has just prompted me to look at our greatest ever corner 🥳

 

January 2016 - White Hart Lane.  You know the one 🤩

 

Ball comes over towards the back post but eight yards out.  The taker - Christian Fuchs

[Tom12345]

Barnes can also take a few. I think he used to take some for WBA and his corners/crosses were not bad. He is unlikely going to score from a corner anyway so might as well let him take some.

[whoareyaaa]

we need to find someone who can whip them in at pace on to Fofona direct run into the box

[Vacamion]

 

Remember a few years ago when we terrified the opposition at a defensive corner with 3 players lined up on the halfway line, ready to counter?

 

That was great.

 

Probably won't happen again, though.

[Haywood_6]

 

Rennes goal from a corner 3:30. Whipped in with height and pace. Bullet header. 

 

Perfect set piece goal.

 

That's what we need to aspire to

[Steve Earle]

On 23/11/2020 at 23:12, SuperMike said:

We'll continue to concede from corners as Kasper WILL NOT come out, even 4 yards, to claim the ball or punch it . For all the world it looks as though he is scared to death of getting clattered.

I'm afraid this is what a nail being hit on the head looks like.

 

Watching almost every other team defending set pieces (or just crosses into the box in our case), the standard commentators phrases are well worn: 'too close to the keeper' 'couldn't miss out the first man' 'too easy for the goalkeeper' 'routine for the keeper' etc etc. But no cross is 'routine' for Kasper, no ball into the six yard box (if there is anyone else in it) is 'routine' or 'easy' for him. The team attacking us know they don't have to cross the ball flat with pace and away from the keeper - they know they can launch the ball right into our six yard box, and the only reaction from Kasper will be to stand rooted to his line shouting 'Head away! Head away!'. 

 

We are now officially the worst team in the PL at defending set pieces. We are, to be fair, just about the least physical side in the PL anyway (and though the comment belong elsewhere, that is why Praet had to start ahead of either Bares or Maddison on Sunday), but Kasper is at the root of all this.

 

What with his distribution getting worse by the season (or perhaps more accurately, and fairly, worse in comparison to the rest), we are fast approaching a 'we need to talk about Kasper' moment. And I say that as a 50+ year supporter who thinks the world of him, has a cat named Kasper, and has never seen a better season of goalkeeping for us than Kasper's 2016-17.

[SuperMike]

7 hours ago, Steve Earle said:

I'm afraid this is what a nail being hit on the head looks like.

 

Watching almost every other team defending set pieces (or just crosses into the box in our case), the standard commentators phrases are well worn: 'too close to the keeper' 'couldn't miss out the first man' 'too easy for the goalkeeper' 'routine for the keeper' etc etc. But no cross is 'routine' for Kasper, no ball into the six yard box (if there is anyone else in it) is 'routine' or 'easy' for him. The team attacking us know they don't have to cross the ball flat with pace and away from the keeper - they know they can launch the ball right into our six yard box, and the only reaction from Kasper will be to stand rooted to his line shouting 'Head away! Head away!'. 

 

We are now officially the worst team in the PL at defending set pieces. We are, to be fair, just about the least physical side in the PL anyway (and though the comment belong elsewhere, that is why Praet had to start ahead of either Bares or Maddison on Sunday), but Kasper is at the root of all this.

 

What with his distribution getting worse by the season (or perhaps more accurately, and fairly, worse in comparison to the rest), we are fast approaching a 'we need to talk about Kasper' moment. And I say that as a 50+ year supporter who thinks the world of him, has a cat named Kasper, and has never seen a better season of goalkeeping for us than Kasper's 2016-17.

I'm worried now! Not only are our opinions on set-pieces exactly the same, but I've also been supporting LCFC 50 plus years, I also have a cat called Kasper and I also rate Steve Earle as one of the finest (ahead of his time and under-rated) players to wear Royal Blue! Have you stolen my identity?? 😃

[Steve Earle]

2 hours ago, SuperMike said:

I'm worried now! Not only are our opinions on set-pieces exactly the same, but I've also been supporting LCFC 50 plus years, I also have a cat called Kasper and I also rate Steve Earle as one of the finest (ahead of his time and under-rated) players to wear Royal Blue! Have you stolen my identity?? 😃

There is (at least) one major difference between us Mike - I don’t rate Steve Earle as highly as you do!

You don’t by any chance have a dog called Lester do you?!?

[lcfc_forever]

The first step is acknowledging we've got an issue:

 

Q: Do set-pieces seem to be lacking? Is that a fair comment?

BR: “Yeah, I think that’s fair. Delivery and the first contact has been something that hasn’t been there for us, and it’s something we need to be better in, absolutely. That’s a fair comment.”

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/every-word-brendan-rodgers-said-4752614

 

Let's hope they work hard on it and if necessary, take set pieces away from Maddison. 

 

They're such a crucial part of the game and something that would help us to break down teams when they play deep against us and disrupt our plays with regular fouls. 

[Fox92]

 

 

[lcfc_forever]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

 

 

Wow

[sacreblueits442]

5 hours ago, lcfc_forever said:

The first step is acknowledging we've got an issue:

 

Q: Do set-pieces seem to be lacking? Is that a fair comment?

BR: “Yeah, I think that’s fair. Delivery and the first contact has been something that hasn’t been there for us, and it’s something we need to be better in, absolutely. That’s a fair comment.”

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/every-word-brendan-rodgers-said-4752614

 

Let's hope they work hard on it and if necessary, take set pieces away from Maddison. 

 

They're such a crucial part of the game and something that would help us to break down teams when they play deep against us and disrupt our plays with regular fouls. 

....do you really believe that they work on set pieces!!!

We see a repetition of the same thing game after game, do we honestly believe that they put any real thinking, in that set pieces are in any way an asset. 

 When Youri came initially there were training ground moves with him and Maddison greatly involved you might see  occasionally a move which does not come off but I can not see any evidence that we have spent any time attempting to improve in this department.

  We constantly hit the near post on corners, I would say seven times out of ten corners go that way, why do we not put someone a good ten yards infront of the near post which would draw a defender to him, creating a space that could then be attacked by a second player on our team attack the space now vacated at the near post. If the original player is not marked up as viewed to be in a place ineffective to cause danger, then any slight contact made would leave no time for adjustments of Goalkeepers or defenders, potential own goals are a reality. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

Time to bring in a specific set piece coach.

[worth_the_wait]

Time to bring in some tall players.

[murphy]

I remember, as a young lad, a simple corner routine that used be deadly.  John O'Neill with a near post flick on, Alan Smith running in - goal!  I'm probably mis-remembering but it seemed to work all the time.  Perhaps some other old gits can help me out?

 

Anyway, we need to work on free kicks and corners because it could just be the way to beat these relegation zone teams that keep turning us over.  Scoring the first goal in these games is crucial to draw them out and we are pretty hopeless at breaking teams down that sit back.  Everyone knows how to play against Leicester.