Set pieces

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

I agree, you literally never see him deliver a decent corner. 

You do, he delivered at least 2 either midweek or against Fulham.

[AjcW]

9 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

Stringer touched a nerve with Brendan tonight in their interview on this topic. Brendan said "he knows the root cause." So let's see....

Interesting theory on this is that brendan is currently in a similar situation to Pep when he arrived at Man City... by that I mean...

 

... “how do I justify getting rid of a goalkeeper who appears great to most but clearly has flaws in the way I need him to play” 

[l444ry]

Interesting article for those interested in the theory behind corners rather than speculation. Might explain Maddison's delivery attempts into a certain area?

Premier League 2019/20: Offensive set piece trends- tactical analysis (totalfootballanalysis.com)

Edited 6 December 2020 by l444ry

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

I wonder if we have time to work on set pieces in training? I read an interview with one of the players where they said that on account of the Thurs - Sun turnaround we hardly have any training time, and when we do it’s mostly tactical work re next opposition. 
 

There’s probably a lot more to the defending of set pieces, but offensively getting Maddison off them seems like a good place to start. 

[StriderHiryu]

 

Rodgers talks about it in the post match interview, but says he thinks it will be sorted as players come back. To be fair we actually had a very good record at defending from them last season, in the top 3 clubs at it in fact! Ndidi has among the best aerial duel winning percentage in the league, and if you have Evans, Soyuncu, Fofana and Ndidi in the team, it SHOULD stabilise a bit.

[murphy]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Rodgers talks about it in the post match interview, but says he thinks it will be sorted as players come back. To be fair we actually had a very good record at defending from them last season, in the top 3 clubs at it in fact! Ndidi has among the best aerial duel winning percentage in the league, and if you have Evans, Soyuncu, Fofana and Ndidi in the team, it SHOULD stabilise a bit.

Rodgers seemed a bit annoyed at the question on Radio Leicester but it's a fair question to ask after conceding 7 from set pieces already this season, the worst in the league.  

 

I'm not buying the idea that returning players will sort this out on their own.  We are playing with three centre halves this season and we still can't defend crosses.  This is something that needs working on.  Having Youri against McBurnie for their goal shows a lack of organisation.

 

[SixtiesFox]

7 hours ago, AjcW said:

Interesting theory on this is that brendan is currently in a similar situation to Pep when he arrived at Man City... by that I mean...

 

... “how do I justify getting rid of a goalkeeper who appears great to most but clearly has flaws in the way I need him to play” 

You've hit the nail on the head. When the keeper, for whatever reason, does not command his area, and worse still, not even his six yard box, defending set pieces becomes much more difficult for defenders. I love Kasper, he has many other strengths, but this weakness is costing us cheap goals. The fact that he shouts "head away" hundreds of times during a game is quite telling. Changing our passive approach by attacking key offensive threats in the air would help but, as you say, this is a conundrum that Rodgers must solve sooner rather than later. Maintaining a consistent challenge at the top end of the table will be very difficult as our opponents continue to exploit this obvious weakness. 

[smudger63]

7 hours ago, murphy said:

Rodgers seemed a bit annoyed at the question on Radio Leicester but it's a fair question to ask after conceding 7 from set pieces already this season, the worst in the league.  

 

I'm not buying the idea that returning players will sort this out on their own.  We are playing with three centre halves this season and we still can't defend crosses.  This is something that needs working on.  Having Youri against McBurnie for their goal shows a lack of organisation.

 

Well i think he was more annoyed at the way Stringer put the question.   Stringer was saying could they maybe stop the cross`s coming into the box, to which Rodgers pointed out that you can`t stop a cross coming in from a corner.

 

[RowlattsFox]

Opposition know Kasper isn't going to come for the corner. It's not always possible and he can't be blamed for every corner goal but does make it more difficult for us. Even more important when we so few aerial players.

 

We have our best headers of the ball zonal marking, but the other players can't block or stay with the run so the opponent is able to rise above Fofana and Evans. McBurnie was a beast, won everything in both boxes, not easy to stop but it's happened far too often. 

[Hales]

I think the fact Vardy, Madders and Brendan all mentioned it and commentators have now started saying it makes it a situation Brendan has to address.  

[Chrysalis]

14 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Rodgers has mentioned this himself according to RL.

 

 

He doesnt help himself, that comment seems to be excusing our record because of injuries.

[Tom12345]

15 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

Best set piece in about 6 games was from Fuchs. Whipped with pace into the right area. Their keeper did what he had to and went for it, which he then dropped and we nearly scored. 
 

We get one from a little closer on the right and Madison floats it in the air, nowhere near anyone but the keeper. Huge difference in quality. Why doesn’t albrighton take set pieces when he’s on?!  
 

im fine with Madison going for goal from them but his crossing is so bad.
 

He clipped in his first corner of the day and I couldn’t believe how bad it was. Even the best header of the ball would have struggled to do anything with that. 
 

I think he’s rattled himself. It’s not quality, I just think he’s setting up knowing how many he’s messed up and he can’t clear his head now. 

I said it before (as far back as a year or so ago and got laughed at), it is because he lacks strength. This is why he hits the first defender 80% of the time. If he simply goes for power, then he just whips it without accuracy (or it goes high up in the air). If you ever played football from young, you know what I mean.

 

Fuchs is exceptionally strong in this regard.  This is why he wanted to try out as a professional kicker at NFL - you need strength and accuracy. This is also why his long crosses can be whipped in with pace and accuracy - like the one you mentioned. If you don’t have strength, and you need to hit that far, you would either hit the first man or can only float it high up in the air allowing an easy catch for the keeper.  The fact that he hits the first man 80% of the times with his corners over not a few games but over such a long period of time he has been here is confirmation that the issue is with strength - it is not mental; if it is mental, he will naturally overhit a few from time to time at pace but he never does that and for those that go long they just float slowly in the air and not with pace.

 

Watch clips of all his set pieces and how he delivers long balls in games over the past 2 years and you will see what I mean.

 

He has the right ideas and I am beginning to see that he is improving his decision making, but I think this is his biggest handicap. If he can work on his strength (his football brain will always be there), practise using that strength with accuracy, if he can do that, he will raise himself by a few levels. 

Edited 7 December 2020 by Tom12345

[AjcW]

7 hours ago, SixtiesFox said:

You've hit the nail on the head. When the keeper, for whatever reason, does not command his area, and worse still, not even his six yard box, defending set pieces becomes much more difficult for defenders. I love Kasper, he has many other strengths, but this weakness is costing us cheap goals. The fact that he shouts "head away" hundreds of times during a game is quite telling. Changing our passive approach by attacking key offensive threats in the air would help but, as you say, this is a conundrum that Rodgers must solve sooner rather than later. Maintaining a consistent challenge at the top end of the table will be very difficult as our opponents continue to exploit this obvious weakness. 

It's made even more interesting when you remember Kasper and Hart are good mates and grew up under the training of the same coaches at Man City. 

 

They both spoke quite candidly in an interview together a year or so ago abut how harsh it seems that keepers are judged on very different attributes currently to what they were taught to do. 

[AjcW]

The attacking side of things is more of an annoyance for me to be honest. I'm happy to take BR's excuse on the defence for now and see how it plays out.

But really when there's 3 (maybe even 4) players better at set pieces on the pitch than Maddison, why on earth does he command so much respect over the situation?

 

Is it purely based off how amazing he is in training? Just seems like a real lack of in game leadership, as soon as he's messed up 2 someone should be making changes in game.

 

I will add that I do like him as a professional and he's very self critical and will probably be determined to improve... but we need to give him time to whilst letting someone else take the reigns for a few games!

[volpeazzurro]

53 minutes ago, AjcW said:

It's made even more interesting when you remember Kasper and Hart are good mates and grew up under the training of the same coaches at Man City. 

 

They both spoke quite candidly in an interview together a year or so ago abut how harsh it seems that keepers are judged on very different attributes currently to what they were taught to do. 

Many sportsman over the years have had to adapt their game or techniques to meet the varying changes in their sport. The more modern sweeper type of goalkeeper may be difficult in fairness but, surely it can't be beyond the wit of Caspar and coaching staff to devise a daily training regime to improve his skills from corners or other crosses. It's whether he wants to try and better himself and make the effort. 

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Many sportsman over the years have had to adapt their game or techniques to meet the varying changes in their sport. The more modern sweeper type of goalkeeper may be difficult in fairness but, surely it can't be beyond the wit of Caspar and coaching staff to devise a daily training regime to improve his skills from corners or other crosses. It's whether he wants to try and better himself and make the effort. 

Surely it can't be beyond the wit of a post on a Leicester City Football Club forum to actually get his name right? 

[TJB-fox]

I really rate zonal marking when it’s done right, but at the moment we’re making a right dogs dinner of it. The two biggest issues I’m seeing are:

 

-There doesn’t seem to be clear/decisive defending from the players marking the ‘zones’. In theory it shouldn’t matter if the opposition player is there or not, if the defending player marks his zone properly and attacks the ball when it enters the zone then the set piece is cleared. It shouldn’t have been Youri competing for the header with McBurnie yesterday it should have been whoever’s zone that was in - say Fofana or Evans for example. 

 

-The smaller players, normally fullbacks or midfielders, tasked with marking the attacking player (not to actually jump for a header with them but to disrupt/block/get under them) aren’t doing it well enough, or at all. I understand Youri isn’t going to outjump/muscle McBurnie but all he needs to do is get under him or block him off and then wait for Evans/Fofana to come over the top of them both and head the ball away. On the flip side of that, if the blockers aren’t doing their job then Evans/Fofana are going to struggle against good aerial players who have a clear run on them. 

Watching Mendy/Tielemans/Maddison/Barnes having to jump with 6’3 strikers every week it’s no wonder we’re conceding so many goals from set pieces, they should never be doing that job in the first place. 

 

 

[Stoopid]

Zonal defending at corners means players have to make a decision while the ball is in flight - ie 'is it in my area or not?' That can lead to hesitation,  specially if confidence isn't great anyway. And late movement by attackers is less likely to be picked up, not to mention mismatches in size.

Makes no sense to me. 

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

Surely it can't be beyond the wit of a post on a Leicester City Football Club forum to actually get his name right? 

Quite right,  my dog's named Caspar, must have had him on my mind. He's crap on crosses too, however, the poor little sod as a dachshund has very short legs so I cut him a bit of slack.

[Crocyfox79]

Not clearing the first man at corners and free kicks is not up to scratch as well as defending them defensively is a concern quote the marking for the Sheffield United goal yesterday ?

[Lambert09]

2 hours ago, TJB-fox said:

I really rate zonal marking when it’s done right, but at the moment we’re making a right dogs dinner of it. The two biggest issues I’m seeing are:

 

-There doesn’t seem to be clear/decisive defending from the players marking the ‘zones’. In theory it shouldn’t matter if the opposition player is there or not, if the defending player marks his zone properly and attacks the ball when it enters the zone then the set piece is cleared. It shouldn’t have been Youri competing for the header with McBurnie yesterday it should have been whoever’s zone that was in - say Fofana or Evans for example. 

 

-The smaller players, normally fullbacks or midfielders, tasked with marking the attacking player (not to actually jump for a header with them but to disrupt/block/get under them) aren’t doing it well enough, or at all. I understand Youri isn’t going to outjump/muscle McBurnie but all he needs to do is get under him or block him off and then wait for Evans/Fofana to come over the top of them both and head the ball away. On the flip side of that, if the blockers aren’t doing their job then Evans/Fofana are going to struggle against good aerial players who have a clear run on them. 

Watching Mendy/Tielemans/Maddison/Barnes having to jump with 6’3 strikers every week it’s no wonder we’re conceding so many goals from set pieces, they should never be doing that job in the first place. 

 

 

Personally I’ve not ever really been a fan of zonal marking as if often leads to unmarked players getting on the end of things. However, it can work if done correctly but this only works if you have at least 4 big players, that command in the area. Covering the 4 key areas of the box. 
 

As mentioned by others we only have one player over 6”2 who was on the pitch yesterday. If you are the big guy going for a header you just pick the easiest zone. Or flood the easiest zone with all your big guys. 
 

Sheffield, who I’ll admit are one of the biggest sides in the league (height wise) were always going to be tough to defend against but if fofana had been tight to him with youri marking the zone, it would have been a tougher contest. 

[Lambert09]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIfaXw_BQ_2/?igshid=new8j4kisimm

 

 

A picture that sums up our situation 

[coolhandfox]

The fact we only conceded 6 last year from set pieces, sort of backs up it is a personnel issue rather then a system issue for me!

 

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

The problem as I see it is, if you're not very good at taking set pieces, you won't be very good at defending them, since you'll only get to practice against your team mates... who aren't very good at set pieces.

[eblair]

25 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

The fact we only conceded 6 last year from set pieces, sort of backs up it is a personnel issue rather then a system issue for me!

 

 

agreed think n'didi is biggest miss, rate mendy but cant do a lot in the air if you are 5ft 5