Leeds Pre Match

[Pub breath]

31 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

One of the best in the world? You’re having a laugh. Maybe in the same way Bielsa is one of the best managers in the world. 
There are few worse goal keepers in the Premier League. Third most saves means nothing, most mislead stat - without looking who are the two ahead of him? Sam Johnson and Areola? The teams with the worst defences have keepers who make more saves.

If Leeds had a better goalkeeper they would be about 10 points better off.

Would you day David de Gea went on to be one of the best in the world?  Yeah?  Do you remember his early career at Manchester United.  He was a bit of a laughing stock and made far, far more big and completely avoidable errors.  Meslier is a significantly more assured keeper than de Gea was at that stage, with fewer big errors and the point you miss about saves made is about how much more likely his is to have the odd error, not about how much he has saved.   If a Keeper is only facing 3 shots a game, he's obviously less likely to make an error than a keeper facing 13 shots a game so highlighting errors without that context, is senseless.  De Gea had much less to do in those days than Meslier now and still ballsed up regularly.

Not that Meslier actually makes that many, they are mostly distribution errors and again, he's made more passes than almost all other keepers so you have to factor that in.

De Gea made those errors because he was young and many people failed to understand that keepers rarely get any good until 23/24 and he was on a steep learning curve back then.  De Gea's age back then?  22, 2 years older than Meslier.  For him to be as good as he is now at 20 is ridiculously rare so absolutely every reason to expect he'll become one of the best in the world by 25.  He's 100% on that trajectory.

Edited 29 January 2021 by Pub breath

[Aus Fox]

5 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

Would you day David de Gea went on to be one of the best in the world?  Yeah?  Do you remember his early career at Manchester United.  He was a bit of a laughing stock and made far, far more big and completely avoidable errors.  Meslier is a significantly more assured keeper than de Gea was at that stage, with fewer big errors and the point you miss about saves made is about how much more likely his is to have the odd error, not about how much he has saved.   If a Keeper is only facing 3 shots a game, he's obviously less likely to make an error than a keeper facing 13 shots a game so highlighting errors without that context, is senseless.  De Gea had much less to do in those days than Meslier now and still ballsed up regularly.

Not that Meslier actually makes that many, they are mostly distribution errors and again, he's made more passes than almost all other keepers so you have to factor that in.

De Gea made those errors because he was young and many people failed to understand that keepers rarely get any good until 23/24 and he was on a steep learning curve back then.  De Gea's age back then?  22, 2 years older than Meslier.  For him to be as good as he is now at 20 is ridiculously rare so absolutely every reason to expect he'll become one of the best in the world by 25.  He's 100% on that trajectory.

You also leave out that at the same age De Gea had already won the Europa League and Super Cup as first choice goalkeeper at Atletico Madrid and was First choice for Spain U21s and made a big money move to Manchester United.

Meslier has won the Championship and hasn’t been capped at U21 level for his country.

They are not even close to being on the same trajectories age for age.

[Pub breath]

3 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

You also leave out that at the same age De Gea had already won the Europa League and Super Cup as first choice goalkeeper at Atletico Madrid and was First choice for Spain U21s and made a big money move to Manchester United.

Meslier has won the Championship and hasn’t been capped at U21 level for his country.

They are not even close to being on the same trajectories age for age.

I never really saw any of those matches so can hardly comment on how much he contributed or otherwise, to that.  I can only compare the performances of the 20 year old Meslier against the 22 year old De Gea in this league and can say with total confidence that Meslier looks much more assured than De Gea did back then.

But you're still missing the central point about development - which is what De Gea enjoyed years later.  In many views, Meslier has 10 or more years before he hits his peak as a keeper.  He's keeping out a much more error prone senior keeper who has played for Spain and won the Champions league with Real Madrid.  He's holding down a spot in arguably the best league in the world with the 12th best team (currently) in that league.  I think it's incredibly likely that he'll develop enough to be one of the world's best from that position, he has most of the attributes already.  Distribution and command of his area are the two development areas, he has years to improve them. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

Any knews on injuries? Wilf, Evans? 

[foxinsocks]

under to start over perez

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, Pub breath said:

I never really saw any of those matches so can hardly comment on how much he contributed or otherwise, to that.  I can only compare the performances of the 20 year old Meslier against the 22 year old De Gea in this league and can say with total confidence that Meslier looks much more assured than De Gea did back then.

But you're still missing the central point about development - which is what De Gea enjoyed years later.  In many views, Meslier has 10 or more years before he hits his peak as a keeper.  He's keeping out a much more error prone senior keeper who has played for Spain and won the Champions league with Real Madrid.  He's holding down a spot in arguably the best league in the world with the 12th best team (currently) in that league.  I think it's incredibly likely that he'll develop enough to be one of the world's best from that position, he has most of the attributes already.  Distribution and command of his area are the two development areas, he has years to improve them. 

Honestly there's no point haha. 90% of fan opinions on goalkeepers are hideous and generally based on what other people say or confirmation bias.

 

I'm still yet to hear one commentator on a live game that has an understanding of the keeper position, Gary Neville is terrible for it. They say things and then people go "oh he knows what he's talking about, that makes sense". Then it becoms their truth. People that don't rate Meslier will ignore everything he does well and then jump on the next thing a commentator tells them is an error. The "you shouldn't be beat at your near post" myth is by far the most annoying one.

 

Considering he's playing behind a makeshift defence most weeks as well, his performances have been quite impressive as far as I can see. As you say, you'd expect him to become more commanding and iron out the mistakes as he gains more experience. All that being said, I hope he has an absolute howler on sunday though

 

[Buce]

3 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

I'm not as confident as some with this game, I think Leeds have a big win away from home against someone good in them and it hasn't happened yet. 

 

They'll give us chances of course, which is encouraging but we struggle when teams put pressure on us sometimes and Mendy in particular is not as good when he's got men running around him. We countered that last time with the 5 at the back but not sure we will this time. 

 

The fact that it hasn't happened yet might indicate that you're wrong that it's going to.

 

They really aren't as good as the hype.

[Pub breath]

23 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Honestly there's no point haha. 90% of fan opinions on goalkeepers are hideous and generally based on what other people say or confirmation bias.

 

I'm still yet to hear one commentator on a live game that has an understanding of the keeper position, Gary Neville is terrible for it. They say things and then people go "oh he knows what he's talking about, that makes sense". Then it becoms their truth. People that don't rate Meslier will ignore everything he does well and then jump on the next thing a commentator tells them is an error. The "you shouldn't be beat at your near post" myth is by far the most annoying one.

 

Considering he's playing behind a makeshift defence most weeks as well, his performances have been quite impressive as far as I can see. As you say, you'd expect him to become more commanding and iron out the mistakes as he gains more experience. All that being said, I hope he has an absolute howler on sunday though

 

Lots of interesting points there, probably the most misunderstood position on the field.  Another good example is when a keeper has tried to deal with a cross by punching it a half distance away, "unconvincing" is usually the cry.  Keepers that stay rooted to their line unless there is an entirely clear path between them and claiming the ball are not criticised nearly so often for doing nothing to avert the danger.

[Burners]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The fact that it hasn't happened yet might indicate that you're wrong that it's going to.

 

They really aren't as good as the hype.

Promoted team with same amount of wins as Chelsea and 1 less than Arsenal and Spurs at the half way point of the season aren't doing badly.

 

Despite not being able to field first choice defense in a single game this season.

 

You are right though Leeds have struggled to get results against the top teams (apart from draw against Man City). So will have to be at absolute best and keep mistakes down to stand any chance at weekend.

[Pub breath]

11 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The fact that it hasn't happened yet might indicate that you're wrong that it's going to.

 

They really aren't as good as the hype.

Beat Everton away, they win their games in hand and they are where Leicester are.  Beat Villa away 3-0 when they were second, their games in hand won would have them fifth now.

[gw_leics772]

On 1/27/2021 at 23:24, honeybradger said:

Im wary of starting pereira in the PL so soon, especially against such a high intensity side like leeds. Think castagne should be the starter just a little while longer and give pereira some time to get back to full fitness, dont want him doing his hamstring again.

I think it's pereira vs justin personally

[Paninistickers]

Their story this season is fascinating. 

 

A very limited set of players and a manager who sets them.up in an unbelievably naive style should be a recipe for disaster. 

 

But they've dug out regular wins all the way along. Baffling and fascinating in equal measure 

[harpendenfox]

Slight hamstring tear for Wilf. 7-10 days. JV 7-10 days as well. If we had both available for the second half of February that would be mighty helpful

 

[Paninistickers]

1 minute ago, harpendenfox said:

Slight hamstring tear for Wilf. 7-10 days. JV 7-10 days as well. If we had both available for the second half of February that would be mighty helpful

 

I'd have settled for that. Both out til FA Cup then

[Buce]

39 minutes ago, Burners said:

Promoted team with same amount of wins as Chelsea and 1 less than Arsenal and Spurs at the half way point of the season aren't doing badly.

 

Despite not being able to field first choice defense in a single game this season.

 

You are right though Leeds have struggled to get results against the top teams (apart from draw against Man City). So will have to be at absolute best and keep mistakes down to stand any chance at weekend.

 

36 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

Beat Everton away, they win their games in hand and they are where Leicester are.  Beat Villa away 3-0 when they were second, their games in hand won would have them fifth now.

 

Sorry, I probably came across as being hostile, which wasn't my intention; I'm pleased to see you back in the top flight and hope you stay there (I'm sure you will).

 

Nonetheless, I don't think you are as good as the pundits seem to want you to be.

[Pub breath]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

 

Sorry, I probably came across as being hostile, which wasn't my intention; I'm pleased to see you back in the top flight and hope you stay there (I'm sure you will).

 

Nonetheless, I don't think you are as good as the pundits seem to want you to be.

I didn't take it as hostility at all and i'm not sure if those teams are good by your definition or not tbh.  Just thought it worth mentioning that we've had some wins against some of the better teams this season even if we don't yet have a really notable scalp to our name yet.

I think the pundits just like the approach we have to it and are enjoying Leeds being back after such a long time out.  There is such a lot for them to talk about it gives them great material, much more so than if we were trying to grind out wins by parking the bus and hoping to steal a lucky breakaway goal.  That'll all die down soon enough.

[gw_leics772]

On 1/27/2021 at 23:47, nwl fox said:

Well I just hope Sky have managed to plan a full hour long pre-match special on what makes Leeds so formidable under Bielsa. Its such a shame that Pochetino won't be able to attend this time, hopefully they'll still manage to shoe-horn in a 15 minute segment on Spurs. 

If carraghers on comms we'll get most of the match about how each team did well to try to cope with the mighty liverpool.

[gw_leics772]

On 1/28/2021 at 04:50, Nicolo Barella said:

If we do end up going back to three at the back, it will be interesting to see what three he picks. Soyuncu has never been great in a back three, would Rodgers start him anyway?

Yes would be my guess

[gw_leics772]

On 1/28/2021 at 07:27, RowlattsFox said:

As much as they will give us space I do still worry about playing them. If they get it right they will cause us all ends of problems. 

 

Between this and Fulham we probably have to make some changes to keep players fresh. But we need to be winning both of them if we want to keep in touch at the top.

 

 

Nice try on the pessimism, but I don't think you even believe that first para 😀💪🤜🤛👊

[gw_leics772]

On 1/28/2021 at 12:39, Clever Fox said:

I expect Evans to be ok for Sunday unless it's more serious, like concussion, Then he might be rested as a precaution.

I don't think we'll see NDiddi for a game or two so as not to aggravate his injury. 

We really need to win this against a tricky opponent. The best way is to keep them as far away from our goal as possible.

So we have to win the Midfield battle, With Wilf likely out I'd go with either Ricardo or Fofana in there and leave Soyuncu alongside Evans.

Or you could even try Soyuncu in M/F as his passing was exceptionally good last night.

If we can seize the initiative then I think we will go on to win again which is what we need to keep our challenge up.

Nice idea to replace ndidi. I'd like that.

Lots of praise for Mendy last game but I didn't feel it myself, so kept my.moith shut as thought I must have missed something.

I like this idea, seems tailor made for either cage or fofana though rather than ricardo if you are talking "like for like" position wise (and if you're not, ignore me 😀{but I still like the idea, especially if it's my idea})

 

( More edit notes, I've had a ****ing made there!)

Edited 29 January 2021 by gw_leics772
Replace ndidi WITH fofana, not replace fofana!

[UpTheLeagueFox]

35 minutes ago, Buce said:

I probably came across as being hostile

You, hostile? Never! 

(This is not a hostile post, Buce)

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

 

Sorry, I probably came across as being horny, which wasn't my intention; I'm pleased to see you back in the top flight and hope you stay there (I'm sure you will).

 

Nonetheless, I don't think you are as good as the pundits seem to want you to be.

I know the feeling Buce, we are like 2 peas in a pod

[L4EV]

5 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

I'm not as confident as some with this game, I think Leeds have a big win away from home against someone good in them and it hasn't happened yet. 

 

They'll give us chances of course, which is encouraging but we struggle when teams put pressure on us sometimes and Mendy in particular is not as good when he's got men running around him. We countered that last time with the 5 at the back but not sure we will this time. 

We won at Everton.

[ARTY_FOX]

4 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

Leicester also had no Evans, Soyuncu, Ricardo, Castange, Ndidi or Maddison in that game.

Maddison did play. Passed to under who assisted Vardy 

[cruzFOX]

Little nervous about tomorrow not having Ndidi in the side. Fingers crossed we cope well with all the running. Can't give leeds even a sniff of one goal. If we can take them apart clinically like last time but Bielsa' setup wouldn't be that foolish again (would it)?