Not The Politics Thread.

[Sharpe's Fox]

16 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Blimey.

 

 

Starmer's finished based on that. Burnham is already pitching himself as the King Across the Water. I don't even like Burnham politics but at least he knows how to do the job. Get him in.

[BrokenRecord]

1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Starmer's finished based on that. Burnham is already pitching himself as the King Across the Water. I don't even like Burnham politics but at least he knows how to do the job. Get him in.

I still can't work out what Starmer's plan was. He's not a stupid guy, far from it, yet somehow he and his advisors decided that they wanted to be so inoffensive that they would pitch no idea about what Labour are. 

 

I know Corbyn was unpopular based on his personality and past, but a lot of his policies were popular. It's alright saying we're many years out from a GE, but Starmer should have been getting ideas out there, letting the electorate know what his brand of Labour stand for. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Starmer's finished based on that. Burnham is already pitching himself as the King Across the Water. I don't even like Burnham politics but at least he knows how to do the job. Get him in.

 

13 minutes ago, BrokenRecord said:

I still can't work out what Starmer's plan was. He's not a stupid guy, far from it, yet somehow he and his advisors decided that they wanted to be so inoffensive that they would pitch no idea about what Labour are. 

 

I know Corbyn was unpopular based on his personality and past, but a lot of his policies were popular. It's alright saying we're many years out from a GE, but Starmer should have been getting ideas out there, letting the electorate know what his brand of Labour stand for. 

Is it still a vaccine bounce? Something else? Vaccine bounce and something else?

 

Since May 2nd - when Redfield & Wilton said there was just 2 points between the parties - there have been 10 polls ... the gaps have been 8%, 9% (twice), 10%, 11% (twice), 13% (twice), 15% and 18%. (The latter two were YouGov which I know some disregard, even though they were pretty much bang on with their final 2019 GE prediction)

[bovril]

1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

Is it still a vaccine bounce? Something else? Vaccine bounce and something else?

 

Since May 2nd - when Redfield & Wilton said there was just 2 points between the parties - there have been 10 polls ... the gaps have been 8%, 9% (twice), 10%, 11% (twice), 13% (twice), 15% and 18%. (The latter two were YouGov which I know some disregard, even though they were pretty much bang on with their final 2019 GE prediction)

The vaccine rollout is one of the biggest political successes of my lifetime. If it'd gone shit and we were still getting triple digit deaths a day like Italy Labour might have a slim lead as they did before Xmas. 

That's not to take away from how uninspiring Starmer has been. 

[Alf Bentley]

17 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Is it still a vaccine bounce? Something else? Vaccine bounce and something else?

 

Since May 2nd - when Redfield & Wilton said there was just 2 points between the parties - there have been 10 polls ... the gaps have been 8%, 9% (twice), 10%, 11% (twice), 13% (twice), 15% and 18%. (The latter two were YouGov which I know some disregard, even though they were pretty much bang on with their final 2019 GE prediction)

 

I'd say it's vaccine bounce/optimistic mood with lockdown ending and now a growing consensus that Starmer isn't making Labour's priorities clear.

 

In part, that's unfair on Starmer as I don't think he'd have had an audience for new ideas during peak Covid. But he has now had a few months of polls saying this and is still to make an impression, so he needs to get on with it.

It's all very well talking about going out to "listen to what people want" - and that can feed into a party's policy & presentation. But people also want a broad idea of what you're about and what your priorities are.

Would it be so hard to present a broad message via a limited number of flagship policies: e.g. investment in jobs in left-behind areas; devolution of power to local communities; fund better pay rise for nurses & staffing to eliminate post-Covid waiting lists; invest in cutting-edge green jobs of the future?

 

Normally, Starmer might have up to a year to sort this out, but he's been unlucky with the byelections that have come up - first Hartlepool, now Batley & Spen (in July?), which is another Labour marginal (3500 majority) - and where a local independent group run by an ex-UKIP bloke got 6500 votes in 2019..... The bookies have the Tories as favourites to win again, unsurprisingly - and there have been mutterings about Starmer not only from the Left but from some of his own allies. Finger out, mate!

 

Mind you, I do wonder if voters are viewing politics even more in the short-term than they were before? Just look at the last few years.....

- 2017: May calls election with polls suggesting she'll get a much-increased majority. Instead, after a shambolic Tory campaign & surprisingly good JC effort, she loses her majority

- Summer 2019: Labour is level with the Tories in the polls

- Dec. 2019: After Johnson takes over & gets Brexit deal, he wins a landslide

- Late 2020: Within a year, Labour is again level in the polls & Starmer has much better personal ratings than Johnson (due mainly to their respective responses to Covid?)

- Spring 2021: Tories again riding high & Starmer lambasted for lack of vision/ideas

 

Admittedly, there were massive, polarising events in those years (Brexit, Corbyn, Covid). But it does suggest that, if hostility to Johnson's Covid efforts in 2020 can be quickly forgotten, appreciation of vaccine success could also be quickly forgotten if things turn bad (high unemployment, further Covid lockdowns, crap public services etc.), particularly if Labour start to look like a good alternative. Whether Starmer will last long enough to find out about that is quite another matter....

[Fox in the North]

So....would it be fair to say that the gloves are off between Dominic Cummings and the government?

[StanSP]

18 minutes ago, Fox in the North said:

So....would it be fair to say that the gloves are off between Dominic Cummings and the government?

Long may it continue. 

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

Edited 26 May 2021 by urban.spaceman

[Carl the Llama]

12 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

The old "it's your fault we're shit".

[UpTheLeagueFox]

2020 Twitter: "Cummings is a nasty piece of work, a liar, you can't trust him, he's full of shiit, unelected bullshiitter, makes up stuff, horrible man, scumbag."

 

2021 Twitter: "I believe everything Cummings says now."

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

2020 Twitter: "Cummings is a nasty piece of work, a liar, you can't trust him, he's full of shiit, unelected bullshiitter, makes up stuff, horrible man, scumbag."

 

2021 Twitter: "I believe everything Cummings says now."

2020 Conservative Twitter: "Of course we believe Cummings about his little driving escapade."

2021 Conservative Twitter: "He's talking shit."

 

(And that's saying nothing about the incredibly erroneous assertion here that Twitter is somehow some echo chamber of left-wing thought.)

[UpTheLeagueFox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

2020 Conservative Twitter: "Of course we believe Cummings about his little driving escapade."

2021 Conservative Twitter: "He's talking shit."

 

(And that's saying nothing about the incredibly erroneous assertion here that Twitter is somehow some echo chamber of left-wing thought.)

I don't think anyone believed his original version of events re Barnard Castle.

[Voll Blau]

9 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

2020 Twitter: "Cummings is a nasty piece of work, a liar, you can't trust him, he's full of shiit, unelected bullshiitter, makes up stuff, horrible man, scumbag."

 

2021 Twitter: "I believe everything Cummings says now."

Most people I see are taking it all with a pinch of salt, but I guess we'll find out just how much is true when Hancock, Johnson et al get their right of reply...

 

My overriding feeling, whoever is telling the truth, is the incompetence of almost everyone involved is staggering. Lives have been lost unnecessarily and been destroyed because of this incompetence and that should anger everyone.

[Kopfkino]

11 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

2020 Twitter: "Cummings is a nasty piece of work, a liar, you can't trust him, he's full of shiit, unelected bullshiitter, makes up stuff, horrible man, scumbag."

 

2021 Twitter: "I believe everything Cummings says now."

 

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

2020 Conservative Twitter: "Of course we believe Cummings about his little driving escapade."

2021 Conservative Twitter: "He's talking shit."

 

(And that's saying nothing about the incredibly erroneous assertion here that Twitter is somehow some echo chamber of left-wing thought.)

So what we can say is that everybody is afflicted with limited scope of reactions when their priors feel threatened or are being confirmed. And can subsequently get off the high ground

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

I don't think anyone believed his original version of events re Barnard Castle.

And I don't think anyone wholeheartedly believes him now.

 

But I can't prove it, and neither can anyone else here, nor can the above. So I guess I'll just leave it there.

 

2 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

So what we can say is that everybody is afflicted with limited scope of reactions when their priors feel threatened or are being confirmed. And can subsequently get off the high ground

Exactly. Confirmation bias is part of being human, though sometimes I wish it wasn't so.

[SecretPro]

Many racists, biggotts, rich people, self-righteous people and those less educated and more easily led will defend Boris Johnson no matter what he does. Nothing will change. Some people are happy to admit wrongdoing/idiocy on all sides, no matter what their political alliance, but for some reason Boris commands an army or weirdo's that blindly defend him at all costs. It's rather cult-like.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Cummings will get lots of headlines which suit him, plenty of score settling after losing his job, but will probably blow over, just as his drive to Durham eventually did after it was front page news / lead stories on the telly for seemingly ages.

We may get an insight into what the general public think over the next month with the polling, whether they care that much on this topic.

 

2 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Boris commands an army or weirdo's that blindly defend him at all costs. It's rather cult-like.

Is Boris the new Corbyn then?

(But with electoral success)

[SecretPro]

Just now, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Cummings will get lots of headlines which suit him, plenty of score settling after losing his job, but will probably blow over, just as his drive to Durham eventually did after it was front page news / lead stories on the telly for seemingly ages.

We may get an insight into what the general public think over the next month with the polling, whether they care that much on this topic.

 

Is Boris the new Corbyn then?

(But with electoral success)

For the right, yes he is.

[bovril]

18 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

2020 Twitter: "Cummings is a nasty piece of work, a liar, you can't trust him, he's full of shiit, unelected bullshiitter, makes up stuff, horrible man, scumbag."

 

2021 Twitter: "I believe everything Cummings says now."

You need to use twitter less. I'm staging an intervention.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

3 minutes ago, bovril said:

You need to use twitter less. I'm staging an intervention.

I scroll through it less and less these days.

A few nuggets of gold here and there just about make it worth persisting with.

[Carl the Llama]

22 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

I don't think anyone believed his original version of events re Barnard Castle.

Didn't stop you lot playing goalkeeper for the blue team, did it?

[Carl the Llama]

Speaking of absurdly defending the indefensible, have a crack fellas:

https://news.sky.com/story/tory-islamophobia-anti-muslim-sentiment-remains-a-problem-within-conservative-party-report-finds-12316516

 

How can we spin this to be labour's fault?  Bonus points if you can make Corbyn the scapegoat.  Extra bonus points if you can explain why this is completely different to the antisemitism in labour's ranks which had the usual anti-labour posters on here up in their virtue signalling arms while nobody defended it.

[Innovindil]

27 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Speaking of absurdly defending the indefensible, have a crack fellas:

https://news.sky.com/story/tory-islamophobia-anti-muslim-sentiment-remains-a-problem-within-conservative-party-report-finds-12316516

 

How can we spin this to be labour's fault?  Bonus points if you can make Corbyn the scapegoat.  Extra bonus points if you can explain why this is completely different to the antisemitism in labour's ranks which had the usual anti-labour posters on here up in their virtue signalling arms while nobody defended it.

Don't need to spin it, just need to ignore like the Labour fans did. Eeeeeyyyyyooooooo. 

 

Jokes aside, clearly a problem that needs sorting and hopefully the party commits to the recommendations to fix it. 5% or probably more now of this country is Muslim and they should be as welcome in the tory party as anywhere else. 

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Don't need to spin it, just need to ignore like the Labour fans did. Eeeeeyyyyyooooooo. 

 

Jokes aside, clearly a problem that needs sorting and hopefully the party commits to the recommendations to fix it. 5% or probably more now of this country is Muslim and they should be as welcome in the tory party as anywhere else. 

It was extensively discussed on here by both sides, what are you talking about?

[Voll Blau]

Huge fan of all this effing and jeffing on daytime telly, by the way. More of this please.