The Super League

[KFS]

1 hour ago, He aint bald said:

 

 

A football change I could live with.

 

Everyone in a European league and a domestic league, maybe the Championship and down too.

Serie A and B etc etc , the same

 

Means playing everyone once, luck of the draw whether home or away.

 

Domestic leagues. 

21 teams, 20 games, 10 home, 10 away, 

 

European Leagues.

Multiple leagues of 21 teams, also playing 20 matches,

 

How will it work?

 

Teams enter the european leagues on the basis of where they finish in their domestic leagues, keeping integrity of said leagues.

 

A fair (or unfair) seeding system will be tricky though ..... eg

 

Super Champions, big boys only,  SKY Sports LIGA SUPREMA NUMERO 1...... 

                                                                                                      Top 2 teams from England, Germany Italy, France, Spain, 

                                                                                                      Top team from 5 other countries like Portugal, maybe scotland etc

                                                                                                      6 other places based on play offs from all other league winners.

 

All the way down to 

 

 Urban initiative RYAN AIR subsidised EURO LIGA 40

                                                                                              15th to 18th place 3rd tier teams, Derby off to St Malo and hosting Sporting Benidorm etc

 

Now, I know it sounds silly but lets get our  heads out of the sand and embrace change. 

This is essentially the Brazilian system. They play their main league during their season and then have state leagues in the ‘off season’. Can’t quite get my head around it but their fans seem to love it.

[mozartfox]

Would there be points deductions for leaving the dressing room like a pig stye?

[He aint bald]

4 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

Would there be points deductions for leaving the dressing room like a pig stye?

KSSH Veleçiku Koplik will have to be tolerant of British culture, even when they host Derby

[HybridFox]

20 minutes ago, He aint bald said:

The principle that all teams get to play or have the oppurtunity to earn a place in Europe would be great to achieve.

How we will get there, I dont know.

 

...Follow the boys and Claudio 

[Golden Fox]

2 hours ago, He aint bald said:

 

 

A football change I could live with.

 

Everyone in a European league and a domestic league, maybe the Championship and down too.

Serie A and B etc etc , the same

 

Means playing everyone once, luck of the draw whether home or away.

 

Domestic leagues. 

21 teams, 20 games, 10 home, 10 away, 

 

European Leagues.

Multiple leagues of 21 teams, also playing 20 matches,

 

How will it work?

 

Teams enter the european leagues on the basis of where they finish in their domestic leagues, keeping integrity of said leagues.

 

A fair (or unfair) seeding system will be tricky though ..... eg

 

Super Champions, big boys only,  SKY Sports LIGA SUPREMA NUMERO 1...... 

                                                                                                      Top 2 teams from England, Germany Italy, France, Spain, 

                                                                                                      Top team from 5 other countries like Portugal, maybe scotland etc

                                                                                                      6 other places based on play offs from all other league winners.

 

All the way down to 

 

 Urban initiative RYAN AIR subsidised EURO LIGA 40

                                                                                              15th to 18th place 3rd tier teams, Derby off to St Malo and hosting Sporting Benidorm etc

 

Now, I know it sounds silly but lets get our  heads out of the sand and embrace change. 

This is a Super League thread, so have to bring in economics and supply and demand. 

 

Current Champions league makes a lot of money, as fixed supply and prices are high. 

 

But there is enough money left over for a UEFA cup (or 2) on a Thursday, and it makes enough money to fly teams around the continent. (not quite enough to cover cleaners though) 

 

If you expand the number of competitions and games to this level, and increase the supply that much, the money dries up and wont cover it. There are enough clubs in financial trouble without rhem having to pay for European travel. 

 

This idea would be great to give everyone a taste of Europe, but the real solution is more equality in domestic leagues to open up European qualification to a wider number of clubs. 

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

1 hour ago, KFS said:

This is essentially the Brazilian system. They play their main league during their season and then have state leagues in the ‘off season’. Can’t quite get my head around it but their fans seem to love it.

Each state has its own system. The Sao Paulo state league I think had 4 divisions with promotion and relegation!

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

46 minutes ago, Golden Fox said:

This is a Super League thread, so have to bring in economics and supply and demand. 

 

Current Champions league makes a lot of money, as fixed supply and prices are high. 

 

But there is enough money left over for a UEFA cup (or 2) on a Thursday, and it makes enough money to fly teams around the continent. (not quite enough to cover cleaners though) 

 

If you expand the number of competitions and games to this level, and increase the supply that much, the money dries up and wont cover it. There are enough clubs in financial trouble without rhem having to pay for European travel. 

 

This idea would be great to give everyone a taste of Europe, but the real solution is more equality in domestic leagues to open up European qualification to a wider number of clubs. 

I agree with you on supply and demand issues and better equality.

 

The Europa and Conference Leagues work and can involve more teams and confederations.

 

So let's say for the Big 3 (or 4 or 5) leagues, a 4-4-2 for the European competitions, so the top 10. I don't think an Anglo-Italian Cup involving the bottom half of the league will break the bank. Or be creative: A European Commonwealth Cup with the 4 home nations, Cyprus, Malta, and Gibraltar. Even Leeds fans could get a night out in Valletta! Of course, the downside is that the betting firms would be the main sponsors.

[KFS]

12 minutes ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

Each state has its own system. The Sao Paulo state league I think had 4 divisions with promotion and relegation!

What’s also cool is they give a lot of youth players chances in the multiple competitions as a result. A good friend of mine supports Vasco and I swear they’re playing a cup final game every week  

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

Just now, KFS said:

What’s also cool is they give a lot of youth players chances in the multiple competitions as a result. A good friend of mine supports Vasco and I swear they’re playing a cup final game every week  

Actually, most of the state leagues seem to have their own Wikipedia page: The formats are all over the place! Your friend could be right!

[fuchsntf]

47 minutes ago, Golden Fox said:

This is a Super League thread, so have to bring in economics and supply and demand. 

 

Current Champions league makes a lot of money, as fixed supply and prices are high. 

 

But there is enough money left over for a UEFA cup (or 2) on a Thursday, and it makes enough money to fly teams around the continent. (not quite enough to cover cleaners though) 

 

If you expand the number of competitions and games to this level, and increase the supply that much, the money dries up and wont cover it. There are enough clubs in financial trouble without rhem having to pay for European travel. 

 

This idea would be great to give everyone a taste of Europe, but the real solution is more equality in domestic leagues to open up European qualification to a wider number of clubs. 

Not saying, before I go to Meet our maker I wont change my mind but.!!

 

I believe you have to earn in sport on the Basis of your season position & achievements...So I cant go along with your last paragraph.

I Dont even agree a Champions League of  anybody but  the Champions only being recognised to qualify..

Then upto 2-5, in the old style EUEFA...

Cup winners..like of old...In the European cup-winners cup.  

Then a Choice of the various League cup winners, whether they go into the Euefa, or cup winners cup draws...

Sort of "back to the future"  idea..

 

I believe strongly because of pay-tv After Now many years, it aint Working , games are being watered down...

TV- Tourist fans will always be there, But are they enough to carry on this TV- frenzy, where few actually Royall- Terrace fans,have the chance

to follow their Team over TV After qualifying...Not even free highlights...

Qualifying for Europe has to be earned & an Event & an achievement for all clubs

 

[String fellow]

All this sounds way too complicated for my simple brain. Maybe I'm in a minority of one in preferring the idea of partly integrating the English and Scottish leagues. One bonus to such an arrangement is that it would p*ss Nicola Sturgeon off big time! 

Edited 25 March 2022 by String fellow

[He aint bald]

2 hours ago, Golden Fox said:

This is a Super League thread, so have to bring in economics and supply and demand. 

 Increase the supply that much, the money dries up and wont cover it. There are enough clubs in financial trouble without rhem having to pay for European travel. 

 

I agree, all pie in the sky, but I think a bigger brain than mine might be able to juggle the books and suppliment travel if there was a will. 

38 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

I believe you have to earn in sport on the Basis of your season position & achievements...

 

I believe strongly because of pay-tv After Now many years, it aint Working , games are being watered down...

TV- Tourist fans will always be there, But are they enough to carry on this TV- frenzy,

 

For years I been reading and wanting to edit your posts fuchsntf, now I am here  it seems sort of a sacrilege. However a bone to pick

 

Why did I have to wait 35 years to watch  Leicester play in Europe? Wasnt my fault we had crap teams and few european spots all that time. Let Doncaster fans have their pleasures too,

 

Yep, the TV gravy train wont last forever, especially if we have to share diverted premier league money with Albanian teams. As above, a bigger brain than mine needed to work that out.

 

Watching the games? Most clubs can afford a good camera and a perch. Stream to the away teams home stadium and pay to view if the game warrants it, 

 

19 minutes ago, String fellow said:

All this sounds way too complicated for my simple brain. Maybe I'm in a monority of one in preferring the idea of partly integrating the English and Scottish leagues. One bonus to such an arrangement is that it would p*ss Nicola Sturgeon off big time. 

I had hopes of you being the bigger brain than mine.

Having been to a Hampden Park England friendly, Celtic and Hibs games too,  I asure you that I would rather go Albania on a Tuesday night than be an Englishman wandering Motherwell in an evening

[Vacamion]

 

 

I was going to say that Sky calling this "Super Greed"

 

 

is such an utter lack of self awareness by the people who kicked off and then fed the super greed beast for 30 years.

 

And then I saw @davieG got there first   :

 

On 20/03/2022 at 17:37, davieG said:

Sky's latest documentary 

 

April 2021. A new European Super League of football was announced. Three days later, it folded. Why? A first behind‑the‑scenes look at Super Greed: The Fight for Football.

Available 21 March

 

Pot, Kettle.

 

Still... wow.

 

 

[foxile5]

Said it at the time - fans didn't do enough to punish the clubs at the first suggestion of it. 

 

One rearranged match wasn't close enough to the vitriol and hate they deserved. The United incident should have been the opening salvo in a serious of protests. 

 

Unfortunately, the media bulled it up like the fans had really given the clubs what for which led to a false sense of victory amongst football fans. That's why we're seeing the re-emergence of this idea. 

[Mullet1]

In any form how would relegation work? 
for example, 3 Spanish teams got relegated then would only the Spanish teams get promoted that season meaning no promotion from any other leagues. 

[FoxyLeon]

The English Clubs really lack common sense in joining such a project. The 'Super League' is essentially a development from previously 'Big' Clubs, like those in Spain and Italy, to try and find a way to Financially compete with the Premier League.

 

By forming a 'Super League', the English Clubs will significantly reduce their financial advantages they currently hold over other leagues. 

 

I guess that shows the ideologies of the owners...They would rather join a Super League and earn 'x%' more money despite winning nothing, than hold a significant competitive advantage and still have huge financial rewards. 

[kenny]

35 minutes ago, Mullet1 said:

In any form how would relegation work? 
for example, 3 Spanish teams got relegated then would only the Spanish teams get promoted that season meaning no promotion from any other leagues. 

When your franchise runs out of money they kick you out and replace you with an appropriately rich club.

[Fox in the North]

And here is the lesser wolf in sheeps clothing…

 

 

[st albans fox]

22 minutes ago, Fox in the North said:

And here is the lesser wolf in sheeps clothing…

 

 

So the top two European Co efficient clubs will get into the CL if they don’t make the qualifying positions via their domestic leagues 

 

Would have been Roma and spurs last season 

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

On 28/03/2022 at 21:30, st albans fox said:

So the top two European Co efficient clubs will get into the CL if they don’t make the qualifying positions via their domestic leagues 

 

Would have been Roma and spurs last season 

Did I read that correctly that they have to have qualified for a European spot to get the coefficient birth? So Spurs in 6th place gets Champions League, but Spurs in 9th place doesn't? Does that include qualification based on winning the FA Cup?

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

Did I read that correctly that they have to have qualified for a European spot to get the coefficient birth? So Spurs in 6th place gets Champions League, but Spurs in 9th place doesn't? Does that include qualification based on winning the FA Cup?

read some stuff yesterday 

seems they are shying away from that straight historic co efficient CL qualification but there is likely to still be an remnant of it in the rules adopted in the may meeting that finalises it.

 

Not long to find out how they stuff everyone - it’s only a guess but I suspect they will use the entire number of new CL places they are creating for the highest co efficient (over the past five years) non qualifiers

 

So no team will fail to qualify for CL by finishing fourth but those who have big euro co efficients will get in irrespective of where they finish in the league  - that’s a de facto super league because those who have done well past five years will now always be in the CL …… as an example, both spurs and Arsenal would have been in this seasons CL. England would therefore have had six teams.  Had we been top four last season then England would have seven teams this season. 
I accept the potential caveat being added that you must finish in an existing euro qualifying place in your domestic league. In this case, arsenal would not have made it this season. However, it would only be a single seaosn out of the CL which would not screw their cashflow model. 
you can see how uefa will pander to the big teams to chuck out the super league idea but still end up with the same model 

 

of course the difference being that the super league took the money away from uefa which is important for the Spanish and Italian clubs who are trying to compete with the PL big five. (Spurs don’t spend ) and want a bigger payout. 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

Some one has looked at all the wasted money floating around the lower types of club. Money only spent in their own miserable leagues no matter how big a club and fan base they have. So how do we fleece clubs like Sunderland who's fans would willingly cough up to see their team in Europe?  I know, a one size fits all scam with no danger of the little clubs actually winning anything. Lovely jubbly. 

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

31 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

read some stuff yesterday 

seems they are shying away from that straight historic co efficient CL qualification but there is likely to still be an remnant of it in the rules adopted in the may meeting that finalises it.

 

Not long to find out how they stuff everyone - it’s only a guess but I suspect they will use the entire number of new CL places they are creating for the highest co efficient (over the past five years) non qualifiers

 

So no team will fail to qualify for CL by finishing fourth but those who have big euro co efficients will get in irrespective of where they finish in the league  - that’s a de facto super league because those who have done well past five years will now always be in the CL …… as an example, both spurs and Arsenal would have been in this seasons CL. England would therefore have had six teams.  Had we been top four last season then England would have seven teams this season. 
I accept the potential caveat being added that you must finish in an existing euro qualifying place in your domestic league. In this case, arsenal would not have made it this season. However, it would only be a single seaosn out of the CL which would not screw their cashflow model. 
you can see how uefa will pander to the big teams to chuck out the super league idea but still end up with the same model 

 

of course the difference being that the super league took the money away from uefa which is important for the Spanish and Italian clubs who are trying to compete with the PL big five. (Spurs don’t spend ) and want a bigger payout. 

But only two spots are reserved for "coefficient clubs" each Champions League season? This seems to be purely for the English clubs -- let's face it, the "Big Clubs" in the other major European leagues don't have to worry about not qualifying for Champions League (except maybe Juventus). Even in a "bad" season, Real Madrid, PSG, Barcelona, and Bayern qualify for Champions League. Although I guess it does provide a safety net for them.

 

(As an aside, this is why I always chuckle when people mention Leicester following a Dortmund or Atletico model: That model gets you Champions League most seasons, when your league has only one or two "big clubs" -- it's harder to do when you have a "Big 6" dominating the table, and you are fighting for a Europa League or Conference spot each year.)

[Wymsey]

PSG's owner says that it's not right criticising this suggested competition for his and other greed-driven clubs whilst the Ukraine/Russia war is happening..

[grobyfox1990]

19 hours ago, Wymsey said:

PSG's owner says that it's not right criticising this suggested competition for his and other greed-driven clubs whilst the Ukraine/Russia war is happening..

It’s the other way round lol. Psg rejected the ESL idea from the start. He’s calling out the other rich clubs for trying to revive the idea whilst there’s a war going on. I hope I don’t have you as an alibi if I’m ever wrongly accused!