The Super League

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

28 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Shameful if they actually did.

Real and Barcelona seriously need to have a hard look at themselves.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58214532

 

26 minutes ago, TK95 said:

More shameful if the FA would ever consider it 

Let's see: Barcelona and Real Madrid are guaranteed Champions League every year, because even if they have a bad season, they won't drop below fourth in Spain. But they would sacrifice that for being in a Big 8, where one would be guaranteed no European football at all? Never going to happen. Add in the fact that they wouldn't have England's court system at their beck and call.

 

Barcelona and Real Madrid are ghouls that have sucked the life out of Spanish league football, and are now looking for new victims. If they wanted a competitive league, they could have a fairer share-out of La Liga money, and create a Premier League-like competition in Spain.

 

All of these "Big Clubs" -- being both morally and financially bankrupt -- try to destroy the competitiveness of their domestic leagues, and then complain they aren't competitive enough! As I have said before, Real Madrid especially -- but also Barcelona -- thinks being "competitive" means Real has the right to buy all the best players and win every single trophy. They would have thought the same about the putative Super League, and envisioned Atletico, Arsenal, Tottenham, and the Milan clubs as just future Celta Vigo's and Real Betis's.

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

 

Let's see: Barcelona and Real Madrid are guaranteed Champions League every year, because even if they have a bad season, they won't drop below fourth in Spain. But they would sacrifice that for being in a Big 8, where one would be guaranteed no European football at all? Never going to happen. Add in the fact that they wouldn't have England's court system at their beck and call.

 

Barcelona and Real Madrid are ghouls that have sucked the life out of Spanish league football, and are now looking for new victims. If they wanted a competitive league, they could have a fairer share-out of La Liga money, and create a Premier League-like competition in Spain.

 

All of these "Big Clubs" -- being both morally and financially bankrupt -- try to destroy the competitiveness of their domestic leagues, and then complain they aren't competitive enough! As I have said before, Real Madrid especially -- but also Barcelona -- thinks being "competitive" means Real has the right to buy all the best players and win every single trophy. They would have thought the same about the putative Super League, and envisioned Atletico, Arsenal, Tottenham, and the Milan clubs as just future Celta Vigo's and Real Betis's.

The big question is: could they do it on a Tuesday night at Burnley?

[Vlad the Fox]

If there is any truth in this this clearly exposes the super league for what it was, a way of weakening the wealth of the premier league, their other option, to try and join it and it’s financial gains. No doubt once in they would be joining the other greedy six to bring rule changes to ensure more of the money went to them as they have done in Spain.

Wouldn’t be allowed for the same reason celtic and rangers won’t be allowed, assuming that there was any truth in it. 

[urban fox]

so Barca are 1.3Billion in debt and even without Messi their wage bill is 105% of turnover. When some of our fans start screaming that the club/owners should shell out on transfers and wages etc to break into top 4/6 they should take a look and will then realise that our model of sustainable growth is the right way.

Barca, Real Madrid and quite possibly one or two others, are seriously ****ed, and in any other area of business would be pulling down the shutters. Many businesses operate on loans and overdrafts for cashflow but remain profitable, but it does not take a genius to work out that if you spend more than you are taking over a prolonged period, the debt will only increase to the point where it becomes no longer serviceable .In their pursuit of dominance, both on the pitch and financially, they have totally mismanaged their affairs to the extent that things have now reached crisis point.

The super league is looking more and more like a last desperate throw of the dice to bring in cash to keep them afloat.

Their only saving grace is the enormity of the debt is probably preventing the banks from foreclosing as they would be the ultimate losers.

Don't expect the ESL, or whatever the next scheme is called, to go away any time soon. The reluctance to issue any sort of meaningful punishment has simply encouraged them to try again. I really think for them it is sink or swim time and they see this as heir only viable way to survive

[Dahnsouff]

16 minutes ago, urban fox said:

so Barca are 1.3Billion in debt and even without Messi their wage bill is 105% of turnover. When some of our fans start screaming that the club/owners should shell out on transfers and wages etc to break into top 4/6 they should take a look and will then realise that our model of sustainable growth is the right way.

Barca, Real Madrid and quite possibly one or two others, are seriously ****ed, and in any other area of business would be pulling down the shutters. Many businesses operate on loans and overdrafts for cashflow but remain profitable, but it does not take a genius to work out that if you spend more than you are taking over a prolonged period, the debt will only increase to the point where it becomes no longer serviceable .In their pursuit of dominance, both on the pitch and financially, they have totally mismanaged their affairs to the extent that things have now reached crisis point.

The super league is looking more and more like a last desperate throw of the dice to bring in cash to keep them afloat.

Their only saving grace is the enormity of the debt is probably preventing the banks from foreclosing as they would be the ultimate losers.

Don't expect the ESL, or whatever the next scheme is called, to go away any time soon. The reluctance to issue any sort of meaningful punishment has simply encouraged them to try again. I really think for them it is sink or swim time and they see this as heir only viable way to survive

This is the problem, they arent ******, there is a way out for them and such clubs. The reprecussions of this astronomic level of mismanagement is an inconvenience at most. They will just restructure the debt into a 50 year loan, but it is the fact they are enabled to behave in this manner that is the issue. 

 

I am not excusing them, its just disappointing that such clubs can operate in this manner with impunity.

[Simoken]

13 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Shameful if they actually did.

Real and Barcelona seriously need to have a hard look at themselves.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58214532

I have 1 billion reasons why they should.

[Paninistickers]

Oddly, I tend to think three regional 'super leagues', fir example a combined Portuguese, Spanish and Italian league might be sensible. 

 

The key is any league must be merit based, unlike the proposed ESL. 

 

It works in the non league, where Northern and Southern teams are promoted/relegated into national league.  

 

I've long thought that a Dutch/nordic/celtic league might be the answer to the Scottish game's problems. Rangers playing Ajax etc and a clear pathway for, say, decent Jock teams such as St Johnstone to improve and play at a higher level.

[davieG]

34 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Oddly, I tend to think three regional 'super leagues', fir example a combined Portuguese, Spanish and Italian league might be sensible. 

 

The key is any league must be merit based, unlike the proposed ESL. 

 

It works in the non league, where Northern and Southern teams are promoted/relegated into national league.  

 

I've long thought that a Dutch/nordic/celtic league might be the answer to the Scottish game's problems. Rangers playing Ajax etc and a clear pathway for, say, decent Jock teams such as St Johnstone to improve and play at a higher level.

But their pathway would soon be blocked as those 'big' teams in the regional leagues would end up getting the lions share of all the revenues just like the PL and the likes of ST Johnstone will find it difficult to get a long term foothold even if they managed to get in. I just don't see these 'big' teams agreeing to anything that doesn't give them a high % of revenues they will justify it like our 'big' teams do. Bigger crowds, bigger audiences both at home and overseas etc, etc.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Oddly, I tend to think three regional 'super leagues', fir example a combined Portuguese, Spanish and Italian league might be sensible. 

 

The key is any league must be merit based, unlike the proposed ESL. 

 

It works in the non league, where Northern and Southern teams are promoted/relegated into national league.  

 

I've long thought that a Dutch/nordic/celtic league might be the answer to the Scottish game's problems. Rangers playing Ajax etc and a clear pathway for, say, decent Jock teams such as St Johnstone to improve and play at a higher level.

The Dutch and Belgian clubs voted to merge leagues earlier this year if I recall correctly. Not sure when it's going to happen as I can't find anything since March's "agreement in principle". 

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

But their pathway would soon be blocked as those 'big' teams in the regional leagues would end up getting the lions share of all the revenues just like the PL and the likes of ST Johnstone will find it difficult to get a long term foothold even if they managed to get in. I just don't see these 'big' teams agreeing to anything that doesn't give them a high % of revenues they will justify it like our 'big' teams do. Bigger crowds, bigger audiences both at home and overseas etc, etc.

I agree but that's the kinda point. 

 

St Johnstone would be promoted as, say, SPL champions and then have to battle to establish itself in a celtic/Nordic league dominated by Copenhagen and Celtic. No.different to what brentford have to so this season. 

 

Personally, I find la liga and seria A unwatchable. But Inter v Atletico, Roma v Benfica becomes much more sellable as a weekly product.

 

The ESL was.pure protectionism and effectively a circus. Combined leagues with automatic promotion and relegation is perfectly justifiable 

[Lambert09]

It is a very good point about the unusually high wages for players. It really made me wonder about that in the prem as well. 
 

For example chilwell. Surely he would have wanted to move to Chelsea even if the wages were the same as we were offering. So why did they need to double or even triple what we were paying him? 
 

[urban fox]

4 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

It is a very good point about the unusually high wages for players. It really made me wonder about that in the prem as well. 
 

For example chilwell. Surely he would have wanted to move to Chelsea even if the wages were the same as we were offering. So why did they need to double or even triple what we were paying him? 
 

because it makes it harder for said players to move on as it reduces the number of potential new employers who can afford their wages. Having worked for one or two "major player/blue chip" type companies who only take on larger contracts i have found this out to my own cost. your options, unless you are willing to take a pay cut are limited, unless you can move to another similar sized company.

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

I agree but that's the kinda point. 

 

St Johnstone would be promoted as, say, SPL champions and then have to battle to establish itself in a celtic/Nordic league dominated by Copenhagen and Celtic. No.different to what brentford have to so this season. 

 

Personally, I find la liga and seria A unwatchable. But Inter v Atletico, Roma v Benfica becomes much more sellable as a weekly product.

 

The ESL was.pure protectionism and effectively a circus. Combined leagues with automatic promotion and relegation is perfectly justifiable 

What about the death of such games like the Turin derby, or the Fiorentina v Juve rivalry or the Porto derby? 
 

They’d soon form a hierarchy with the regional leagues and we’d be back to square one. Looks like we’ve reached saturation point with TV unless the European League are willing to play in or at timezones from elsewhere across the world 

[urban.spaceman]

Looks remarkably like a pyramid scheme.

 

 

[foxfan92]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Looks remarkably like a pyramid scheme.

 

 

A pyramid scheme with a "wildcard" entry to the Super League 1 to ensure the "correct teams" always play at the top, irrespective of achievement the previous season ...

[davieG]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58468085

 

Premier League: 'Big six' branded 'fabulists and failures' by PSG chairman
By Simon Stone
BBC Sport
Last updated on22 minutes ago22 minutes ago.
From the sectionEuropean Football

Six Premier League clubs involved in the failed European Super League have been told their plans were the stuff of "fabulists and failures" by Paris St-Germain chairman Nasser al-Khelaifi.

Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham withdrew within 72 hours of founding the Super League alongside six other clubs in April.

AC Milan, Inter Milan and Atletico Madrid also withdrew, while Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus have not renounced the breakaway competition.

"I will not spend much time talking about 18 April and the 'not-so-Super League' because I do not like to focus on fabulists and failures," said Al-Khelaifi, as he made his first major speech as the new head of the European Clubs' Association (ECA) in Geneva.

All of the Premier League clubs were represented apart from Chelsea who accessed proceedings via video link.

The nine clubs who withdrew from the Super League rejoined the ECA last month after leaving in April, but Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus have not yet been reinstated.

Al-Khelaifi added: "Together we defended the interests of European football for everyone. We relied on the resolve and strength of [Uefa] president [Aleksander Ceferin], who stood up to the midnight coup. He said 'we will win' and we did.

"While the three rebel clubs waste energies, twist narratives and continue to shout at the sky, the rest of us are moving forward."

Al-Khelaifi did welcome the return of the six Premier League clubs to the ECA. It is anticipated a Premier League representative will return to the ECA executive committee on Tuesday.

Evidently, passions around the Super League concept remain high.

In his speech, Uefa president Ceferin could not resist an attack on former ECA chairman, Juventus owner Andrea Agnelli, as he welcomed Al-Khelaifi's appointment.

"When passing through a storm, you need a good captain, not like the one in the past, who went away from the ship," he said. "The ECA has a good captain. Your future is bright."

Such warm words between Uefa's most senior official and the man who runs PSG will make some feel uncomfortable.

For all the euphoria around the successful fight against Super League, this summer's transfer window has hinted at fewer clubs competing at the elite end of the game.

Premier League duo Arsenal and Manchester United both spent in excess of £130m on players. Manchester City broke the British transfer record to buy Jack Grealish from Aston Villa and Chelsea almost matched that £100m fee by spending £97.5m on Inter Milan forward Romelu Lukaku.

Lionel Messi and Sergio Ramos headed a quartet of free transfer arrivals at PSG that will earn enormous wages, whilst the French club also turned down a bid in excess of £100m from Real Madrid for striker Kylian Mbappe, even though he can leave for nothing next summer.

Yet Khelaifi says he wants to bring "financial stability" to European football as a matter of urgency and new Financial Fair Play regulations will be introduced to ensure a "stable, sustainable, inclusive and competitive football pyramid".

Ceferin also said Financial Fair Play was "not about competitiveness".

"Cost control systems and competitive balance measures are two different parts of one body," he added.

"Of course they are inter-related but they have two different objectives. We can and we will work together on sensible measures to address competitive imbalance where necessary."

 

[StanSP]

 

 

[blabyboy]

FFS, what is even the point of it all. 

Might as well give them all their documents back so they can carry on and actually implement it now. Tw@ts

[The People's Hero]

UEFA gotta negotiate their cut. As soon as all the necessary parties have some skin in the game or the right kind of reassurances, it will happen.

 

If you can't see that it will happen well.....

 

Want to buy some new clothes? The emperor is modelling them now. Everyone says he looks great...

[blabyboy]

But there's only 3 teams. Not convinced all the english teams will come back in, as the EPL and FA may have good sway there..

 

How attractive is a league of 5/6 teams going to be if they only play each other and there's no relegation after the first year, heck if they get booted out of their respective leagues, they could be the only games they play - it would get too samey/boring.

 

UEFA missing a big chance to put some ethics back in the game and show FIFA how to run a football organisation... Figuratively an open goal that has been missed!

 

Edited 27 September 2021 by blabyboy

[st albans fox]

This is simple 

the clubs involved had done their legal homework = they employed the best lawyers 

 

uefa bungled their case against them and have had to drop it 

 

be interesting to see where this goes now, given that the English clubs have now been vocal about not joining the project in its publicised guise ….

[blabyboy]

Aye, i could see ManU and perhaps Liverpool joining in because of the owners desperation, possibly Arsenal and Spurs too, but less convinced about Chelski and Man City.

So that's 7 teams. Zee Germans don't want to be involved, the French are cold on it. Where do the other big teams come from? Turkey, Greece? 

[OntarioFox]

On 16/08/2021 at 16:30, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

 

Let's see: Barcelona and Real Madrid are guaranteed Champions League every year, because even if they have a bad season, they won't drop below fourth in Spain. But they would sacrifice that for being in a Big 8, where one would be guaranteed no European football at all? Never going to happen. Add in the fact that they wouldn't have England's court system at their beck and call.

 

Barcelona and Real Madrid are ghouls that have sucked the life out of Spanish league football, and are now looking for new victims. If they wanted a competitive league, they could have a fairer share-out of La Liga money, and create a Premier League-like competition in Spain.

 

All of these "Big Clubs" -- being both morally and financially bankrupt -- try to destroy the competitiveness of their domestic leagues, and then complain they aren't competitive enough! As I have said before, Real Madrid especially -- but also Barcelona -- thinks being "competitive" means Real has the right to buy all the best players and win every single trophy. They would have thought the same about the putative Super League, and envisioned Atletico, Arsenal, Tottenham, and the Milan clubs as just future Celta Vigo's and Real Betis's.

Anecdotal evidence of course, but my friends around me in Canada are the sort of 'international fans' that crap like the Super League is targeted towards.

 

We were having a discussion over dinner the other day, and the unanimous opinion was that they'd all pretty-much lost interest in La Liga. Seems somewhat ironic with the league now arguably more competitive on the pitch than it has been in a couple of decades, but the reasoning was more down to the lack of competition on a financial footing, exacerbated by Barcelona's recent mire. For the same reason, none of them paid any attention to the French league either, because the prospect of PSG ballsacking everyone week-in, week-out isn't entertainment. Lille last year will not be repeated, let's be real.

 

The Prem is always going to be internationally popular so long as the 'big four' / 'big six' are present. The fact that there are clubs like ourselves (well, the last two seasons at least), West Ham and so on who are knocking on the door only increases its appeal.

 

Problem is, if their interest is shallow enough to be based on financial parity, I do have a feeling they'd watch the Super League quite happily if the competing teams were on an equal footing. The illusion of equality could be sold to them worryingly easily, even if it excludes every other club in the world besides them.

Edited 27 September 2021 by OntarioFox

[Aus Fox]

3 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Aye, i could see ManU and perhaps Liverpool joining in because of the owners desperation, possibly Arsenal and Spurs too, but less convinced about Chelski and Man City.

So that's 7 teams. Zee Germans don't want to be involved, the French are cold on it. Where do the other big teams come from? Turkey, Greece? 

There’s a couple in Scotland that would love to join something like this! 😂 

[blabyboy]

Have you ever heard of anyone crossing the Scottish FL and getting away with it? 

 

I know we hear talk of it periodically, but that's all it ever turns out to be. Rangers are only just recovering from their run in with the SFL and its members from liquidation. They made it as difficult as they could even though the club had a massive following.

 

The SFL know that if those two go, they're effectively dropping to the same standard and exposure as the Irish league.