The Super League

[Scotch]

6 minutes ago, TiffToff88 said:

 

 

 

The only problem is he's ranting about closed shop franchised sports to a country that has built its entire sporting history on closed shop franchised sports

Thats why he was struggling for an example to use because this is normal to them. 

[ARM1968]

8 minutes ago, TiffToff88 said:

 

 

 

The only problem is he's ranting about closed shop franchised sports to a country that has built its entire sporting history on closed shop franchised sports

Give the guy a break. He wasn’t talking to them. 

[StriderHiryu]

5 minutes ago, TiffToff88 said:

 

 

 

The only problem is he's ranting about closed shop franchised sports to a country that has built its entire sporting history on closed shop franchised sports

Yep in fact I’d go as far as saying the reaction from the crowd was almost like “but what’s wrong with that?” American sports are totally different to the UK, it’s a show and service whereas for us it’s about the connection between the club, players and city. 
 

The problem is that football is so beloved globally that newer generations don’t understand / care for that aspect. I have no doubt the Super League would make astronomical amounts of money and have incredible viewership, even if ironically it’s not from the very people that founded the clubs that play in it. 

[goose2010]

7 minutes ago, TiffToff88 said:

 

 

 

The only problem is he's ranting about closed shop franchised sports to a country that has built its entire sporting history on closed shop franchised sports

but at least (ok not a massive amount) they are playing for something. The draft placement is key for clubs in most American sports. with the ESL there is nothing no competition no promotion no relegation. 

 

 

Any way.... which are the two English clubs that are now having second thoughts do we think? I think Man City and Liverpool. 

[foxholecharlie]

If you make the assumption that these six teams are banned from all other European competition including the Premier League and go it alone in the ESL. Where will they get new players from, what will happen with the transfer market. Will players from the ESL be allowed to be transferred back to FA teams and visa versa transferred from FA teams to ESL ?

Not heard anyone mention this before.

[ARM1968]

4 minutes ago, foxholecharlie said:

If you make the assumption that these six teams are banned from all other European competition including the Premier League and go it alone in the ESL. Where will they get new players from, what will happen with the transfer market. Will players from the ESL be allowed to be transferred back to FA teams and visa versa transferred from FA teams to ESL ?

Not heard anyone mention this before.

I think their vision of ‘saving football’ equates to buying all the good players outside of the ESL, thereby trickling some of their vast wealth down to the feeder clubs - everyone else. 

[OhYesNdidi]

Where’s the incentive to invest, to be competitive? & in 10 years time when they realise arsenal vs Spurs gets a quarter of the audience that Barcelona Vs Man United gets, what then? Are they going to try and filter out these smaller clubs like arsenal, Spurs, the Italians because they feel they deserve a bigger share of the money? When does it stop?

 

the only reasons clubs English clubs are able to take part in this joke of a league system is because of decades of history created long before these rich guys took over, now they’re disregarding it

Edited 20 April 2021 by OhYesNdidi

[SouthStandUpperTier]

3 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

but at least (ok not a massive amount) they are playing for something. The draft placement is key for clubs in most American sports. with the ESL there is nothing no competition no promotion no relegation. 

 

 

Any way.... which are the two English clubs that are now having second thoughts do we think? I think Man City and Liverpool. 

That's also something that is anathema to non-Americans. Being rewarded for being crap. The NY Jets fans were actually angry that they won a few games towards the end of last season, costing them the first overall pick in the draft. Can you imagine being upset if Leicester City won a game? I can't.

[NasPb]

This is a bit cynical, but i reckon the fact that this has been announced will definitely affect players and managers, like Liverpool, and will definitely make them lose or draw more. 

 

Good for us 

[TiffToff88]

9 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

but at least (ok not a massive amount) they are playing for something. The draft placement is key for clubs in most American sports. with the ESL there is nothing no competition no promotion no relegation. 

 

 

Any way.... which are the two English clubs that are now having second thoughts do we think? I think Man City and Liverpool. 

I read reports that Man City and Chelsea were the 2 that were not keen on joining in the first place, so i'd imagine its them

[Muzzy_Larsson]

20 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

Started of thinking of a compromise between the two that would shake up european football and came up with this... (it probably has more holes than a tramps sock but....)

 

A European super league with 20 teams that would replace their domestic league for that year. 

So, top 4 from England, 3 from Italy, 3 from Spain, 2 from France and Germany etc and they go off and play each other twice instead of playing domestically. 

This means that next year, 4 different teams from England will be in those spots and the following season it will be them who go to this league whilst the teams who previously competed return to their own league.....

 

Maybe winner and runner up stay in the European league as a prize.....

That's still unfair though, it just excludes sids from all other leagues not worthy of the same level of participation as the big 5 leagues. Teams that let's not forget have knocked out some ot these 'super' clubs from the champions league in recent seasons, teams like Lyon, Monaco, Ajax, Porto, etc.

 

The big clubs should be told to take a run and jump, they shouldn't be pandered to. European football and access to it should be attained on merit only and it should stay that way. If anything it's already skewed too much in favour of the top 5 leagues and all this does is grows the gap between the top 5 leagues and the rest. Ajax for example got to the semi-final a couple of years back and then had to play two two legged qualifiers the next season, after actually winning their league all to ensure teams that finished fourth in England, Italy and Spain could qualify directly. That's what's created this, forever giving in to the top 5 leagues and even that has been proved to not be enough. They should have been given short shrift long ago instead of UEFA constantly pandering to their every will.

Edited 20 April 2021 by Muzzy_Larsson

[ARTY_FOX]

2 hours ago, teblin said:

The punishment of the players by not representing country etc.. Is a difficult one for me.

 

100% get it if they make the choice to sign for one of these clubs in the future. But to punish the ones at clubs now, who had no choice(as far as I know) is very harsh and shows the disregard that owners have for people.

It's to force player power into stopping it. 

 

Everyone knows if the players refuse it's dead before it gets started. 

[Leeds Fox]

3 minutes ago, foxholecharlie said:

If you make the assumption that these six teams are banned from all other European competition including the Premier League and go it alone in the ESL. Where will they get new players from, what will happen with the transfer market. Will players from the ESL be allowed to be transferred back to FA teams and visa versa transferred from FA teams to ESL ?

Not heard anyone mention this before.

Could it become like Rugby? Where there are two completely separate organisations. That’s the closest thing I can think of in regards to what you’re saying. 

[OhYesNdidi]

For the record, if this super league goes ahead, they need to leave the English system. If they get stay around and stink the place out whilst also earning billions in the super league, I think that’s the straw that breaks the camels back. Sickly. Who wants to watch Liverpool’s U23s?

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, Rain King said:

I was out in my car tonight for a drive to calm down and the thought was in my head. I even drove to the spot that I've always had in my head.

This isn't the only reason but the world is such a shit place, getting back to matches was the one thing I was clinging on to that might drag me through.

Now just seems so utterly pointless.

Pal, there will always be Leicester City. We won't go down without a fight and neither will any of the proper clubs.

 

Even more so now, after the year we've had that the most important thing for being a football fan is being able to get back to watching their team and the social element if they can, and if not at least feel part of it all and know that the game feels meaningful and authentic.

 

Please reach out mate if you are feeling really down, don't ever think it's the end.

[TiffToff88]

I think in terms of "punishing" players by not allowing them to play in international football, the best way they can do this is to allow the European Championships to go ahead as normal this summer, but then to tell the players that in order for them to be able to carry on representing their countires, they will have to move to a club not playing in the Super League. That would give them some time to either let their contracts run down  or force moves before the next World Cup.

 

If players want to choose money over representing their countries, thats up to them. But if footballers have any kind of self respect and integrity then these rules would eventually turn the ESL into a glorified retirement league

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 hour ago, One Arm Babba said:

Be careful, this is exactly what they want. Look at the NFL model. They only play what, 13/14 regular season games and potentially another 3 if you reach the Super Bowl. That’s what these greedy ***** want. And over time so will the players. It will all be money led and the player salaries will be insane. They have the financial backing and it’s very realistic this will happen. 
 

Ask a player today and they would say they don’t like it and still want to play for their country, give it 5/10 years and their national team will be a distant memory. 

The NFL owners would play as many games as they can get away with. More games = more money. It's going up to 17 games next season, despite resistance from the player's union. The reason they play so few games is because of player welfare. The injury rate is so attritional.

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, OhYesNdidi said:

For the record, if this super league goes ahead, they need to leave the English system. If they get stay around and stink the place out whilst also earning billions in the super league, I think that’s the straw that breaks the camels back. Sickly. Who wants to watch Liverpool’s U23s?

It would just be too weird and convoluted to have some teams busting a gut to get top four while others couldn't care less because they were guaranteed entry into the ESL. It's unworkable.

[ARM1968]

3 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

For the record, if this super league goes ahead, they need to leave the English system. If they get stay around and stink the place out whilst also earning billions in the super league, I think that’s the straw that breaks the camels back. Sickly. Who wants to watch Liverpool’s U23s?

It will be worse than that. Only a few teams in the ESuxL can realistically compete. It will become apparent who after 4 or 5 games. Then those not likely to progress can switch to the EPL with their obscene wealth and smash everyone else into the dust. Closed shop in both leagues. Death of football. 
 

I would rather see these cvnts relegated to the Championship and banned from all European competition for a season. At least 3 of the Sux will have to stay down for two years. 

[Aus Fox]

 

[HighPeakFox]

An interesting take from the author/poet Michael Rosen:

 

I am seeing some phoney 'analysis' of power within football. Local fans aren't the 'workers' in football. We are the consumers. We buy a product either at the gate, or through merchandise, or indirectly buying the televised product from a retailer, the media, who is in effect the distributor of the product. The owners of clubs are the capitalists, the players (and ground staff) are the workers as supervised/overseen/managed by football coaches.

 

It's very interesting therefore to see that the football workers have been excluded from a debate (and the government intervention) as to how the owners operate their leagues (trading cartels, if you like). Are oil workers represented when OPEC meet? (I don't know, but I would doubt it. Prove me wrong!)

 

As I've said, I distrust the phoney localism going on defending something that doesn't exist in the top flight anymore: the local link between players and fans. Premier League teams are made up of an international cadre of 'workers'. The great heroes of the team I support have had no more than a tiny handful of north London players over the last 20 years.

 

As someone has pointed out to me, if the issue is really 'let's support localism', then why isn't the government rushing in to support local libraries, post offices, pubs, high streets? So neither in the publicly owned sphere or the small business sphere is the government really in favour of 'the local'.

 

This is window-dressing.

Edited 20 April 2021 by HighPeakFox

[Jacafox]

8 hours ago, murphy said:

Just thinking about this debacle, initially it's the idea of Perez who somehow has let his club mount up 1 billion euro debt  along with Barca, he is running the show and the other greedy clubs are acting like lemmings. These owners, especially Perez are not fit for purpose.  It should never be allowed to get off the ground.

 

[Swarles Barkley]

 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

An interesting take from the author/poet Michael Rosen:

 

I am seeing some phoney 'analysis' of power within football. Local fans aren't the 'workers' in football. We are the consumers. We buy a product either at the gate, or through merchandise, or indirectly buying the televised product from a retailer, the media, who is in effect the distributor of the product. The owners of clubs are the capitalists, the players (and ground staff) are the workers as supervised/overseen/managed by football coaches.

 

It's very interesting therefore to see that the football workers have been excluded from a debate (and the government intervention) as to how the owners operate their leagues (trading cartels, if you like). Are oil workers represented when OPEC meet? (I don't know, but I would doubt it. Prove me wrong!)

 

As I've said, I distrust the phoney localism going on defending something that doesn't exist in the top flight anymore: the local link between players and fans. Premier League teams are made up of an international cadre of 'workers'. The great heroes of the team I support have had no more than a tiny handful of north London players over the last 20 years.

As someone has pointed out to me, if the issue is really 'let's support localism', then why isn't the government rushing in to support local libraries, post offices, pubs, high streets? So neither in the publicly owned sphere or the small business sphere is the government really in favour of 'the local'.

 

This is window-dressing.

That is utterly depressing

[Muzzy_Larsson]

4 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

It will be worse than that. Only a few teams in the ESuxL can realistically compete. It will become apparent who after 4 or 5 games. Then those not likely to progress can switch to the EPL with their obscene wealth and smash everyone else into the dust. Closed shop in both leagues. Death of football. 
 

I would rather see these cvnts relegated to the Championship and banned from all European competition for a season. At least 3 of the Sux will have to stay down for two years. 

Agreed whether this happens or not these sides part of this cabal need to be made an example of or else it just gives sides a licence to do things like this with impunity.