The Super League

[Deeg67]

9 minutes ago, Sly said:

If the Premier League had a wage cap, which would have curtailed a lot of the oil rich clubs trying to buy the league years ago, would this stop the “Unsuper League Greedy Six” being so dominant? 
 

The Premier League is popular, as its unpredictable. It doesn’t have a single

super club that has steam rolled all others, season after season. We’re maybe on the cusp of that with Manchester City though, albeit other clubs have stood up to them. 

The thing about Man City is that even though they are crazy rich, there are other crazy rich clubs in the PL who can spend enough money to beat them.  They’ve dominated the big clubs of late because of the way the club is run.

[ClaphamFox]

4 hours ago, Hoopla10 said:

This is starting next season so it's already a long way down the road for them. This has been in the planning for a long time. It's also why it'll go ahead no matter how much outrage is caused. The Glazers aren't going to come out and say "My bad, didn't realize you'd feel like this, we're taking it back.". Nah, this is happening. It's how everybody (including the FA) responds and acts that matters now. Docking them 20+ points or even kicking them out of all comps doesn't really matter (it's why they should definitely do it anyway). Because next season they'll be in the SL. It'll have no real lasting effect on them. They have effectively wiped this season. Of all seasons, just reveals what utter scum they are. It's so nice for people to get a glimpse of their true faces. Like Amazon exploiting its workers in a pandemic while their profits has shot through the roof. 

 

Whether the FA even does anything will be questionable. They're a terribly run organization and have repeatedly shown they're ONLY interested in money and appeasing these big clubs. If the big clubs decide to call their bluffs the FA will eat cr*p and back down. We have to not only address what this means regarding the big six but also the fundamental issues within the organizing bodies that has led us here. Because they have led us here. They are culpable in this situation and have to also pay for it. 

It won’t go ahead if the government makes it impossible by refusing to provide policing for games, deny licences or ban overseas players from entering the UK to play in ESL matches. All of these measures were mentioned by ministers yesterday. I really don’t get this ‘It’s going to happen no matter what’ nonsense. These clubs and their owners may be rich and powerful, but they’re not more powerful than governments. It will be stopped.

Edited 20 April 2021 by ClaphamFox

[Staffs Fox]

They would have expected a backlash but not to the extent which has happened in the last 24 hours;

 

Let’s not forgot only 12 of the proposed 20 in order to make this work have signed up, where are they going to get the other 8 from? They were obviously banking on Bayern, Dortmund and PSG but such is the vitriol of hatred directed towards the ESL that even PSG are coming out of it looking decent. Now what self respecting clubs are going to retrospectively sign up to this having seen the reaction? 
 

Even our owners with the decade of fantastic work they’ve done could lose all respect and undo all the previous work by opting to join this. I suspect that goes for every club in Europe 

[st albans fox]

22 minutes ago, Staffs Fox said:

They would have expected a backlash but not to the extent which has happened in the last 24 hours;

 

Let’s not forgot only 12 of the proposed 20 in order to make this work have signed up, where are they going to get the other 8 from? They were obviously banking on Bayern, Dortmund and PSG but such is the vitriol of hatred directed towards the ESL that even PSG are coming out of it looking decent. Now what self respecting clubs are going to retrospectively sign up to this having seen the reaction? 
 

Even our owners with the decade of fantastic work they’ve done could lose all respect and undo all the previous work by opting to join this. I suspect that goes for every club in Europe 

What is the public response in Italy and Spain?  Are real and Barca supporters aghast? The Milan clubs?  I have no idea if this is purely an English  issue re public opinion .............

[Basildon Fox]

I hope this is the point when football rescues itself from all the greed and gives more down the leagues in the true spirit of fairness and competition. 

 

Football is a sport like no other. 1 result can ruin a weekend for thousands but we keep going back week after week, hoping that our club can one day compete with the best. I have been a fan for over 40 years and have seen some truly awful teams and players, seen the late 90's where we threatened to do something big under O'Neil and lived through 10 years of shite after. 

 

To see my team today competing where we are, giving a bloody nose to the biggest teams is an amazing feeling. Imagine if that is taken away from any other club and supporter due to the fact rich arseholes do not like competition or their club not automatically being the best. 

 

People rely on football to get them through. No matter the result, the hope and dream of a fan is there that their club can one day beat the bigger boys. It can not be allowed to be taken away. 

[teblin]

The punishment of the players by not representing country etc.. Is a difficult one for me.

 

100% get it if they make the choice to sign for one of these clubs in the future. But to punish the ones at clubs now, who had no choice(as far as I know) is very harsh and shows the disregard that owners have for people.

[st albans fox]

32 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It won’t go ahead if the government makes it impossible by refusing to provide policing for games, deny licences or ban overseas players from entering the UK to play in ESL matches. All of these measures were mentioned by ministers yesterday. I really don’t get this ‘It’s going to happen no matter what’ nonsense. These clubs and their owners may be rich and powerful, but they’re not more powerful than governments. It will be stopped.

If something is legal then you can’t stop it taking place unless you have strong legal basis for doing so. if govt simply prevented liverpool playing a fixture then they would have a court case slapped straight on them. It’s not that straightforward and the last year splash shown in spectacular detail how govt ministers speak with no basis for their POV other than popularism. 

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

If something is legal then you can’t stop it taking place unless you have strong legal basis for doing so. if govt simply prevented liverpool playing a fixture then they would have a court case slapped straight on them. It’s not that straightforward and the last year splash shown in spectacular detail how govt ministers speak with no basis for their POV other than popularism. 

But governments make laws. If existing laws cannot prevent ESL games from taking place, new laws can be made that do. I don’t think that will be necessary, though. The government is working on the basis that the ESL is a cartel and as such violates competition law. I don’t think any changes to the law will be needed to make it virtually impossible for ESL games to be held on UK soil.

[Hack]

5 hours ago, Hoopla10 said:

This is starting next season so it's already a long way down the road for them. This has been in the planning for a long time. It's also why it'll go ahead no matter how much outrage is caused. The Glazers aren't going to come out and say "My bad, didn't realize you'd feel like this, we're taking it back.". Nah, this is happening. It's how everybody (including the FA) responds and acts that matters now. Docking them 20+ points or even kicking them out of all comps doesn't really matter (it's why they should definitely do it anyway). Because next season they'll be in the SL. It'll have no real lasting effect on them. They have effectively wiped this season. Of all seasons, just reveals what utter scum they are. It's so nice for people to get a glimpse of their true faces. Like Amazon exploiting its workers in a pandemic while their profits has shot through the roof. 

 

Whether the FA even does anything will be questionable. They're a terribly run organization and have repeatedly shown they're ONLY interested in money and appeasing these big clubs. If the big clubs decide to call their bluffs the FA will eat cr*p and back down. We have to not only address what this means regarding the big six but also the fundamental issues within the organizing bodies that has led us here. Because they have led us here. They are culpable in this situation and have to also pay for it. 

The fA and especially Uefa have no option but to ban these teams from any and all competitions they run.  No one really wins thid but the ruling bodies must stand firm and be bigger than any team. Let's see what the players do when cinfronted with expulsions from all official games and tournaments. Ask the players will have to sign be esl contracts as well as the teams as will  coaches etc

[Gubbins]

8 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It won’t go ahead if the government makes it impossible by refusing to provide policing for games, deny licences or ban overseas players from entering the UK to play in ESL matches. All of these measures were mentioned by ministers yesterday. I really don’t get this ‘It’s going to happen no matter what’ nonsense. These clubs and their owners may be rich and powerful, but they’re not more powerful than governments. It will be stopped.

I hope you're right but it's a desperate situation when Boris Johnsons government are literally our best hope. Football is largely united against this but they are up against ruthless billionaires who wont back down at this point and who hold the majority of the cards. I've become pretty pessimistic over the whole thing over the past 24hrs.

FIFA, UEFA and the various FAs have talked tough but I suspect strongly that they are bluffing and will eventually back down as the financial power of the dirty dozen is too strong. Even if the 12 are somehow stopped major reforms are needed in these institutions as they are nearly as corrupt and greedy as the 12s owners and bear huge responsibility for football reaching this point.

I wasnt at all impressed by Steve Parish on SKY yesterday. The other clubs I feel would rather make a deal even one horribly skwed against them than take action, again cos they are scared of losing the money.

The media are condemning it across the board but the bad PR means nothing to the 6/12 and eventually the majority will fall in line. They will want the clicks and viewers the SL will bring.

Fans, the real fans at least will oppose it more than anyone. But the owners care even less about them than they do the bad pr. Some will fall in line and the foreign glory hunter contingent who this is aimed dwarfs the size of the real fans who remain opposed.

Finally the players and managers. I feel they represent the best chance of stopping this but the cowardly non committal words from Tuchel and Klopp combined with the silence from all the clubs players is not encouraging. Without the high quality big name players this thing will fall. They cant sell this the super league without it. Excuses will be made that it's a tough situation for them, livelihoods at stake,  youd take the money in there position etc, but the players at these clubs are to a man multi millionaires and unlike the greedy scum in charge of the clubs have an interest in football and what makes it Europes biggest sport. They need to make a stand.

 

 

[coolhandfox]

 

12 minutes ago, teblin said:

The punishment of the players by not representing country etc.. Is a difficult one for me.

 

100% get it if they make the choice to sign for one of these clubs in the future. But to punish the ones at clubs now, who had no choice(as far as I know) is very harsh and shows the disregard that owners have for people.

It a tough one, but it just demonstrates that the owners care as much about the players as they do the fans. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

If something is legal then you can’t stop it taking place unless you have strong legal basis for doing so. if govt simply prevented liverpool playing a fixture then they would have a court case slapped straight on them. It’s not that straightforward and the last year splash shown in spectacular detail how govt ministers speak with no basis for their POV other than popularism. 

From a UK government website:

 

Your business can be fined up to 10% of its worldwide turnover and sued for damages. You can be fined or sent to prison for up to 5 years if you're found guilty of being involved in cartel activity. Company directors can be disqualified from being a director for up to 15 years

 

You must follow the rules on all types of anti-competitive activity including:

price fixing, bid rigging and other ways of agreeing not to compete (sometimes called ‘cartels’)
abuse of a dominant market position.

 

Is this a cartel or a monopoly, it could easyly be argue it is.

[Leeds Fox]

44 minutes ago, Staffs Fox said:

They would have expected a backlash but not to the extent which has happened in the last 24 hours;

 

Let’s not forgot only 12 of the proposed 20 in order to make this work have signed up, where are they going to get the other 8 from? They were obviously banking on Bayern, Dortmund and PSG but such is the vitriol of hatred directed towards the ESL that even PSG are coming out of it looking decent. Now what self respecting clubs are going to retrospectively sign up to this having seen the reaction? 
 

Even our owners with the decade of fantastic work they’ve done could lose all respect and undo all the previous work by opting to join this. I suspect that goes for every club in Europe 

Exactly. The clubs who’ve signed up are well into the wave of hatred they’re going to get. Any club thinking of joining now will have a massive uphill battle, with players likely against it. 
 

The ESL are going to have to iron out what sanctions the members will receive before anyone else signs up I imagine.

 

Players might get paid more, but you’d think their contracts will have to be reviewed. Many could lose a lot of money with sponsorship deals that have International clauses and related image rights etc. It’s going to get very messy for everyone involved. 
 

If the clubs want to remain competitive in all competitions, they’re going to need bigger squads. They’ll try and take the best players from the non-member clubs and I hope clubs refuse to sell. 

[Staffs Fox]

30 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

What is the public response in Italy and Spain?  Are real and Barca supporters aghast? The Milan clubs?  I have no idea if this is purely an English  issue re public opinion .............

Italy has been very similar to England, all the major newspapers yesterday lead with headlines of the death of football etc, let’s not forget they have huge clubs (arguably bigger than ours) who haven’t been included Roma, Lazio, Napoli and more recently Atalanta who have qualified for the past few years at the expense of AC Milan

 

Spain is a special case because they already have an elitist system over there with Real and Barca having more rights and earning more money from deals than the others clubs (not to mention those clubs have their reserves playing in the second tier) therefore they’re used to this broken, uneven system 

Edited 20 April 2021 by Staffs Fox

[mozartfox]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

 

It a tough one, but it just demonstrates that the owners care as much about the players as they do the fans. 

 

 

From a UK government website:

 

Your business can be fined up to 10% of its worldwide turnover and sued for damages. You can be fined or sent to prison for up to 5 years if you're found guilty of being involved in cartel activity. Company directors can be disqualified from being a director for up to 15 years

 

You must follow the rules on all types of anti-competitive activity including:

price fixing, bid rigging and other ways of agreeing not to compete (sometimes called ‘cartels’)
abuse of a dominant market position.

 

Is this a cartel or a monopoly, it could easyly be argue it is.

Isn‘t Chelsea‘s Owner currently barred from entering the UK due to sanctions issues or that all cleared up now?

[coolhandfox]

Just starting this is the thin edge of the wedge:

 

Florentino Perez to El Chiringuito: "If young people find football matches too long it may be because they are not interesting enough... or maybe we might have to make the football matches shorter".

 

What other laws of the game do they change to make it more saleable 

[coolhandfox]

3 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

Isn‘t Chelsea‘s Owner currently barred from entering the UK due to sanctions issues or that all cleared up now?

Not sure!

[AllGoneTitsSchlupp]

32 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

What is the public response in Italy and Spain?  Are real and Barca supporters aghast? The Milan clubs?  I have no idea if this is purely an English  issue re public opinion .............

I’ve heard that Atleti fans are fuming. Expected nothing less from Real & Perez, but feel really let down by Atleti 

[CosbehFox]

The longer they stay at just 12 clubs, the less likely it happens 

[Buce]

10 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

In which countries is this huge worldwide fanbase? Genuine question - I may just be ignorant.

 

Clearly, I'm aware of the big Irish and Scottish diaspora in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. 

But my impression was that people in those countries mainly watched their own national sports - baseball, American football, ice hockey, rugby etc.?

 

My impression was that, apart from Europe, the big global markets for football that the money men want to tap into are in Asia, Africa, Middle East and Latin America.

Obviously, I'd expect there to be some with Scots/Irish roots in those places, but I hadn't imagined there to be enough for TV companies to pay megabucks to show Celtic/Rangers games to a large potential audience there?

 

Wiki:

 

"Celtic has developed a fanbase in a number of countries around the world, with over 160 supporters' clubs in over 20 countries around the world.^[56] Research in 2003 by Capita Consulting in conjunction with the Cranfield Institute estimated the worldwide fan base as being around nine million.^[55]

There are Celtic supporters clubs in South Korea,^[57] Sweden^[58] Croatia, Germany, Denmark and Norway^[59] while the club's profile in Kenya has been boosted by a team in Nairobi, Kibera Celtic, who were inspired by Celtic's charitable roots and use the profits from football to fund charitable initiatives in Kenya and throughout Africa.^[60] This fanbase extended to Japan in 2005, when Japanese international Shunsuke Nakamura joined the club,^[61] although the Tokyo Celtic Supporters' Club had already been established in 2001.^[62]

In 2003, it was estimated that Celtic had a fanbase of one million in the United States and Canada.^[55] In 2002, former Rangers director, Hugh Adam, claimed that Celtic were "the best-supported football club in North America" and that the club's "Irish connection" was a determinant factor in their popularity.^[63] In 2004, The Sunday Times, when commentating on several European teams who were touring in the U.S. at the time, stated that clubs such as Chelsea, Real Madrid and Manchester United attracted support in the United States only when touring the country. In contrast, Celtic were said to "have such a strong pre-existing relationship with a huge expatriate following here that their support will endure."^[64] There are around 80 Celtic supporters clubs in North America,^[55] and nearly half of all U.S states have a Celtic supporters club.^[64]

Celtic have also developed supporters clubs in Australia, South Africa, and elsewhere in the Southern Hemisphere"

 

"Rangers supporters have traditionally been identified with the Protestant and Unionist community in Scotland, as well as in Northern Ireland. The club has a global fan-base, with a worldwide spread of over 600 supporters clubs ranging from North America, Australasia and the Middle East to those closer to home in the United Kingdom.^[1] In season 2012–13, Rangers recorded the 18th highest average league attendance in Europe. In 2006, Rangers was one of the best-supported clubs in the UK with an estimated 5.4 million supporters.^[2] Rangers have an estimated worldwide fanbase in excess of 9.6 million supporters."

Edited 20 April 2021 by Buce

[coolhandfox]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The longer they stay at just 12 clubs, the less likely it happens 

We need one of them to crack, once one goes it will fold.

[Leeds Fox]

This is literally the Audi Cup on steroids. 
 

No actual football fan watched that sh!te I’m sure. It’ll be a pedestrian affair with absolutely no excitement other than the razzmatazz that surrounds it. 
 

The production of it will not represent anything we’re used to, it’ll be overhyped to a level that is unbearable.

 

The only attraction will be seeing some big name players on the same pitch putting in 50% effort. Which ironically will be a massive draw for foreign fans who don’t really see football the way Europeans do.

 

It might generate the viewers for a few years but surely, even the fans it’s aimed at will get bored of it after a while. Firstly, because it will genuinely be boring to watch. Secondly, they support their teams because they win more often than not, which won’t be the case anymore.

[Scotch]

You know what players I feel for in particular? Guys like Shaqiri, Origi, Nathan Akè etc. 

 

It's one thing for important first team players to be banned from international competitions. These guys will be rewarded with massive new contracts but the guys i mentioned don't get a game as it is.... they are going to get the same punishments but their clubs will try and punt them the first opportunity they get...

[Innovindil]

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

I read somewhere earlier that they were given an ultimatum last week that it was happening with or without them. 

Would be chuckles seeing them try and sell the "best teams best players" line missing bayern, dortmund, psg and a couple of prem big teams. 

[Pliskin]

51 minutes ago, teblin said:

The punishment of the players by not representing country etc.. Is a difficult one for me.

 

100% get it if they make the choice to sign for one of these clubs in the future. But to punish the ones at clubs now, who had no choice(as far as I know) is very harsh and shows the disregard that owners have for people.

Not for me. How else can they hit these clubs hard? There’s no point in fining them is there? Ban them from Europe and absolutely ban their players from competing in the euros. Harry Kane playing for England is irrelevant when there are clubs preparing to **** over football for cash. 
 

I fully expect the book to be thrown at these teams. Taking hard action may finally end this disgusting power trip going on at elite clubs. 

[nnfox]

I honestly can't see it happening.  Certainly not as a long term project.

 

Let's say they get their 15 founder members (which I'm not sure they will), and they form this breakaway league.  The Premier League ban them from the Premier League, the FA ban them from domestic competitions, UEFA ban the clubs from the existing European competitions and ban the players from internationals.

 

The 5 teams that the self appointed Gods of Football allow to qualify for the Super League - how many will actually take part given the sanctions?  Not many, certainly no Premier League clubs.

 

Now the Super League will need to sell media packages to world to fund their project, but I just don't see it being an easy sell.  A league where the only thing worth playing for is to win the title.  After about 5 rounds of fixtures, 85% of games will be utterly meaningless friendlies.

 

It's a non-starter in my opinion.  Far more likely that those owners will look to sell the clubs and move on.  And I wonder if that might open the door to fan ownership?