Punishment for the 6 clubs?

[Jobyfox]

1 hour ago, bmt said:

I've said it before but there needs to be a push for the ringleaders (Liverpool and United) to have to change their ownership models (perhaps to 50+1) and legislation that means all other takeovers from now have to do something like that in mind. 

 

They should the six clubs from voting or having a voice on football issues for the next 5 years. 

 

 

It's more important to stop it happening again than it is to punish them imo.

That’s the key point for me. Remove the coefficient, change the ownership models, introduce a regulatory framework - are some of the options 

[Chrysalis]

Just now, Danny Clender said:

But, If this was to happen, they'd be as well to form a break away league again. 

Why does that matter?  Do you watch the game to watch them or your club?

 

I was hoping they would stay in the ESL and the rest of us get on with it.

 

I think if nothing is done its a certainty they will try again, as now they know they are untouchable, and they can do what they want.  If you look at the club statements, there is no apologies, they dont think they did the wrong thing, they likely see it as a timing and marketing problem and it "will" be tried again, they will continue to push for guaranteed slots in European football and for more money.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

Would that bother you? I couldnt give a toss if they not in our league anymore, I dont watch the game to watch the glory teams.  

The Premier league was built on greed, we were all dead against it at the time because we were in the second division at the time and had little chance of joining it. 

 

The last 10 years have been very good to us and that's all down to Premier league money. Would I prefer to go back to how it was? Fck no. 

[FoxinNotts]

UEFA should ban all twelve teams from the next two seasons Champions Leagues, simply as that.

This would hit the clubs in the pocket in the most effective way imo.
 

It would have an effect on transfers (who would want to join/remain at those clubs with no CL).

 

I appreciate this would hurt the fans of those clubs, and that this is all not their fault, but actions have to have consequences. That’s life.

[midland_red]

23 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

What actual punishments can the respective bodies dish out for this? In terms of the PL, I can't imagine a lot as what they had signed up to hadn't actually led to them effecting the domestic league yet. There's probably just enough lack of action that prevents anything being sanctioned against them.

 

UEFA, what are they going to do? Probably got more ability to punish based on these plans being a direct assault on their existence but if they do punish then it will give these 12 more of a reason to break a way and although you don't not punish due to the power of the offender, we know how hypocritical and borderline corrupt UEFA are so they'll not cut their nose off. These 12 will likely get part of what they wanted now from the current European competitions.

 

I think the real punishment will have to be carried out by the fans, make their feelings known and cause the owners and directors of these clubs as much problems as possible. I'd like to think we can all start to have our voices heard and then take that forward on many areas of the game that need improving but it's a tough battle to fight but now is the time with some momentum and vitriol.

 

If UEFA tried then Real Madrid would simply bribe a corrupt judge in that city to issue an injunction

[Chrysalis]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

The Premier league was built on greed, we were all dead against it at the time because we were in the second division at the time and had little chance of joining it. 

 

The last 10 years have been very good to us and that's all down to Premier league money. Would I prefer to go back to how it was? Fck no. 

I would do a reset absolutely 100%, if we have to shift 90% of squad because we cant afford anymore then so be it.

 

They dont like the fact we can compete and qualify for Europe.

 

I dont want to be in the same league as these scumbags to be honest, might stay away until we relegated and we play proper club football again.

 

Think about it, without them the tv rights would be much less money which is a "good" thing as it reduces the gap between the EPL and the rest. 

Edited 21 April 2021 by Chrysalis

[ARTY_FOX]

Deduct them 40 points. It will probably see atleast 2 relegated, they still keep the biggest of their cash cows in the league that way and the football league gets more exposure as a result. 

 

Kick them out of current competitions for the season and impose a 2 year champs league ban and a 2 year transfer ban. 

[RoboFox]

Nothing will happen.

 

The cowardly Premier League made their position clear yesterday with their flannel-like statement. It was all carefully worded so that they could allow all six teams to be welcomed back with open arms and let this thing slowly be forgotten about. 

 

UEFA gave it the bigg'un but only when their backs were against the wall and their cashflow was being threatened, now that's not going to happen I expect that they'll just do the same.

 

All this puffing out of chests and taking the moral high ground about supporters and competition integrity, but everyone knows what takes priority. It always has done. It always will do.

This won't change a thing.

[Guest bennytwohats]

4 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

UEFA should ban all twelve teams from the next two seasons Champions Leagues, simply as that.

This would hit the clubs in the pocket in the most effective way imo.
 

It would have an effect on transfers (who would want to join/remain at those clubs with no CL).

 

I appreciate this would hurt the fans of those clubs, and that this is all not their fault, but actions have to have consequences. That’s life.

You’ve said it, all actions have consequences - what if that punishment meant the clubs felt backed back into the super league proposals?

 

I get it, people feel betrayed and are calling for blood. There is a bigger picture that needs to be considered here though. I’ll say it again but reforms are the way forward here - eg if we went to a 51% model like Germany - that gives the fans power and effectively prevents this situation happening again. That’s the bigger picture. Implicitly it’s also stripping the owners of their power, punishing those who are directly responsible, rather than the fans, players and managers who, let’s not forget, were instrumental in getting this thing overturned.

[Scotch]

UEFA are probably desperate for the FA to hit them with a serious punishment so they can swoop in, wrap and arm around these clubs and whisper "it's all going to be okay" before retracting or heavily reducing the origional decision, bring these clubs closer to them. Then they'll take them out for ice cream and hand them garenteed qualification in the CL restructuring. 

 

This is an absolute wet dream for UEFA. They got to look like the good guys to the fans and media whilst sneaking through a rediculous CL restructure out of the public eye. Then they can regain the favour of these clubs by branding any punishments as unfair and stepping in, in favour of the clubs that they are desperate to appease. 

[Wolfox]

I suspect I’m in the monority…. I’m not sure anything will be achieved by punishing the six British teams involved…. It’ll only serve to isolate them more and they are (like it or not) critical to our league….

 

That effing historical performance wild card back door entry to champions league can eff off though…. And if it’s put the nail in the coffin of that idea then at least something has been achieved…

Edited 21 April 2021 by Wolfox

[daddylonglegs]

The punishment will be as hollow & meaningless as the 6 statements released by the clubs. 

 

Nothing will happen, it'll blow over and they'll have another go a few years into the new format of the CL. 

[Webbo]

11 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

 

 

Think about it, without them the tv rights would be much less money which is a "good" thing as it reduces the gap between the EPL and the rest. 

The lower leagues are struggling now. Making the Premier league poorer won't make them richer, just the opposite. 

[FoxinNotts]

11 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

You’ve said it, all actions have consequences - what if that punishment meant the clubs felt backed back into the super league proposals?

 

I get it, people feel betrayed and are calling for blood. There is a bigger picture that needs to be considered here though. I’ll say it again but reforms are the way forward here - eg if we went to a 51% model like Germany - that gives the fans power and effectively prevents this situation happening again. That’s the bigger picture. Implicitly it’s also stripping the owners of their power, punishing those who are directly responsible, rather than the fans, players and managers who, let’s not forget, were instrumental in getting this thing overturned.

Emergency legislation should be implemented so that the ESL cannot be formed, then implement the punishment, and let them suck it up, with no available response.

[weller54]

23 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Why does that matter?  Do you watch the game to watch them or your club?

 

I was hoping they would stay in the ESL and the rest of us get on with it.

 

I think if nothing is done its a certainty they will try again, as now they know they are untouchable, and they can do what they want.  If you look at the club statements, there is no apologies, they dont think they did the wrong thing, they likely see it as a timing and marketing problem and it "will" be tried again, they will continue to push for guaranteed slots in European football and for more money.

They are untouchable..look at the FFP for example!

The game is corrupt.🤬

[Guest Danny Clender]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Why does that matter?  Do you watch the game to watch them or your club?

 

I was hoping they would stay in the ESL and the rest of us get on with it.

 

I think if nothing is done its a certainty they will try again, as now they know they are untouchable, and they can do what they want.  If you look at the club statements, there is no apologies, they dont think they did the wrong thing, they likely see it as a timing and marketing problem and it "will" be tried again, they will continue to push for guaranteed slots in European football and for more money.

Why does that matter? 

Well, You will have read and heard the ramifications of the Top 6 Clubs leaving all of the available football competitions. 

The 48 hours of complete and total condemnation and by a landslide majority has shown you why that matters, you don't have to agree with the condemnation, but that's what has happened. 

As exciting and revolutionary as the rebuild of the football league without those clubs would be, it would have set back LCFC's position and progress a long way, let alone the destruction of many other football clubs.

 

Do you watch the game to watch them or your club?

Both really, Obviously Leicester dominate my viewing, but I enjoy the total competition of football and enjoy watching other teams play. In reality, that's usually games from Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs. 

 

I totally understand your anger at the teams, but the levels of punishment you advocate for just don't seem proportional to what's actually happened. 

I see they have broken rules, but as it is being suggested, those legal proceedings will take place without our knowledge. 

The rest of the reformation will hopefully be done by everyone that wishes to make what we have better, instead of spoiling it just to teach people a worthless lesson. 

 

I'd say John Henry apologised, depends how you want to interpret that, I'd say the rest will follow too. 

 

I think with or without sanctions, the clubs will be looking to reform whatever they currently have and consolidate future investments, if that means another 'break-away' in a few years time, then you'll get your wish. 

[yorkie1999]

30 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Protests outside their clubs and run their owners out the game, we'll all be back in the next few months. Long and sustained lobbying to oust them and wear them down, bags of flying richard at games another option.

I'll let you get on with it then.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, weller54 said:

They are untouchable..look at the FFP for example!

The game is corrupt.🤬

People are acting like they expect justice, but this isn't some fair court where morally applaudable judgements are made. This is the court of capitalism and greed, where the outcome is negotiated before the court is open, and certainly before the gavel is struck. UEFA hurt themselves more than any of the 12 clubs by banning these 12 clubs, the EPL the same.

 

Expect fines, expect apologies. Expect it to happen again. Root and branch review is required, but....

[HybridFox]

'Other 14 PL clubs divided on sanctions for Super League rebels'

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12282315/european-super-league-other-14-premier-league-clubs-divided-on-big-six-punishments

 

Yep nothing is gonna happen. Needed to all be unanimous on this.

Edited 21 April 2021 by TK95

[Guest Basildon Fox]

For me there has to be a 30 point penalty in the Prem, a 2 year Europe Ban and a £50m fine each which will then be distributed equally all the way down to the National North/South leagues as a minimum.

 

This must not happen again.  The 50+1 fan ownership needs to be set in law so the fans can start to take the game back. #50+1

[martyn]

I'm of the view there has to be some kind of punishment for these clubs to sit alongside any legislation around club ownership.

 

Whilst reform may ensure that the integrity of the game is upheld far better than it is now, we then, from a club development and sporting perspective at least, potentially lose out by diluting the influence of brilliant owners, such as ours. Whether we would have jumped at an ESL invitation ourselves is moot, it didn't happen.

 

So, even if reform is ultimately the right path to take, the clubs involved in the ESL do need to be made an example of in some way. A 1 year European ban would probably suffice for me, alongside a fine.

Edited 21 April 2021 by martyn

[Chrysalis]

38 minutes ago, Webbo said:

The lower leagues are struggling now. Making the Premier league poorer won't make them richer, just the opposite. 

They would spend less to try and get promotion, and it would also make it easier to implement proper spending rules.  It would for sure help the championship, the losses in that division are insane.

 

I do also agree there needs to be changes on club ownership rules as well though.  This isnt just about a one off punishment, the structure of ownership needs changing as well.

 

My belief has always been the following, stemming right from the point we went into admin.

 

1 - Football club ownership needs to move away from PLC model, if you buying a football club you "have" to be personally liable for the club, meaning any debt the clubs have are also the owners debts.  If the club goes bankrupt, the owner goes down with it, if an owner feels this is too much, then they shouldnt be owning a football club.

2 - Player budgets which includes both transfer fees and wages should be capped, but not on turnover but instead a fixed cap per club, stops poorer clubs chasing richer clubs expenditure.  The cap should be low enough that its affordable for the poorer teams.

3 - If a league needs parachute payment system to allow clubs to have freedom to spend to compete, then it means its a broken model and the gap is too large from the league below.  The budget set in point 2 should be low enough that if a club were to be relegated they not going to go bust without a parachute payment, relegation clauses should be mandatory at every club for every player.

 

Edited 21 April 2021 by Chrysalis

[bmt]

18 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

For me there has to be a 30 point penalty in the Prem, a 2 year Europe Ban and a £50m fine each which will then be distributed equally all the way down to the National North/South leagues as a minimum.

 

This must not happen again.  The 50+1 fan ownership needs to be set in law so the fans can start to take the game back. #50+1

They would definitely get the backing to make a super league if you did all of that!

[ARTY_FOX]

When are they all meeting? 

[Leicester_Loyal]

12 hours ago, FuriousFox46 said:

We punish clubs with points deductions for financial irregularities that have nothing to do with the fans.

 

We batter small clubs at their lowest point yet now it’s too harsh to dock points from the six richest clubs in the country after their second attempted coup on football? 

Quoted. For. Truth.

 

Where was all the sympathy for Wigan when their fans told the EFL the new owner would ruin them? 2 years later he'd sold all the players and they plummetted.

 

A point deduction or competition ban is all we can do, but they'll do neither, all that'll happen is UEFA will agree to give these clubs more % of the CL money. We should also start making changes to fan ownership of clubs.