Respect this England team

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

Sat here trying to do a 50 page document and all I can think about is Southgate being so negative. 

I am thinking even if they won;t move Southgate on they have to get someone in next to him to help him develop.  Mancini is a very good manager but has Vialli alongside him.  Where is Southgate's winner sidekick?

[SheppyFox]

Stupid Southgate. 

[LVFox]

A post-match dog walk does wonders for clarity on these things.

 

A great tournament for us, where we broke a couple of major mental hurdles: Beating the germans, getting to a final. These are all things that represent progress.

 

Now we need to step forward again. We have to dominate the ball against better sides, not all the time, any side would have found that difficult against Jorginho and Verratti, but we have to learn to take 5-10 minutes of pressure away.

 

Southgate has done absolute wonders, and there is no-one I'd rather have leading this team, but that doesn't mean he can't develop himself.

 

At the next world cup, we have Sancho, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Mount, Rice, Saka etc all 1 year on in development. Our play has to go more attacking to suit these players. Of course they don't all play, but we have to find a way to get 4-5 in the team rather than 2-3.

 

Stone and Maguire have proven themselves a top class international partnership this tournament, that should lead to more confidence that we have the solid base needed to let our technical players thrive.

 

This isn't the end for this team at all, in theory this generation has another 10 years of tournaments. I genuinely believe they win one.

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I am thinking even if they won;t move Southgate on they have to get someone in next to him to help him develop.  Mancini is a very good manager but has Vialli alongside him.  Where is Southgate's winner sidekick?

Southgate has many redeeming features. Like you say maybe that's the option, bringing in someone to help him, because sadly I don't see someone sat around ready made to replace the bloke. 

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Southgate has many redeeming features. Like you say maybe that's the option, bringing in someone to help him, because sadly I don't see someone sat around ready made to replace the bloke. 

Indeed, it is hard to imagine making a change at this point improves our World Cup chances.  I'm not even sure who that helper is.  The irony of us having a great squad now we can't find a great manager to lead them.

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, LVocey said:

A post-match dog walk does wonders for clarity on these things.

 

A great tournament for us, where we broke a couple of major mental hurdles: Beating the germans, getting to a final. These are all things that represent progress.

 

Now we need to step forward again. We have to dominate the ball against better sides, not all the time, any side would have found that difficult against Jorginho and Verratti, but we have to learn to take 5-10 minutes of pressure away.

 

Southgate has done absolute wonders, and there is no-one I'd rather have leading this team, but that doesn't mean he can't develop himself.

 

At the next world cup, we have Sancho, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Mount, Rice, Saka etc all 1 year on in development. Our play has to go more attacking to suit these players. Of course they don't all play, but we have to find a way to get 4-5 in the team rather than 2-3.

 

Stone and Maguire have proven themselves a top class international partnership this tournament, that should lead to more confidence that we have the solid base needed to let our technical players thrive.

 

This isn't the end for this team at all, in theory this generation has another 10 years of tournaments. I genuinely believe they win one.

 

       Rice          Bellingham

 Foden

Sancho    Sterling or Grealish

Kane

 

I mean it's not that far from what we play now, just removes a raw young kid and an utterly pointless player in mount. 

 

[fuchsntf]

We have solid attacking players, & Kane a proven goalscorer...

Why did we not Play to our strengths & use our better ( seasons club) players..

 

Henderson Coming on for Rice...

Grealish comes on, and we hardly try to get him into und game or use him.

From 20th Minute until deep into the 2nd half, Sterling hardley made a run or created space for himself & Kane.

The First 35 minutes, we had Italy,they were under the cosh, but we failed to create Space & Service for our 2 best strikers..

Southgate tried to be clever, at the wrong time...Grealish would have kept Italy busy,before they started to find their game...

 

Mancini used his subs, to influence moments in the game...

Southgate & Coaches just seemed dumbstruck & mentality cemented into no reaction..

I have nothing against a managers first choice, But with 5 subs, they must be able to react...

Edited 12 July 2021 by fuchsntf

[Guest ttfn]

16 minutes ago, Babylon said:

 

       Rice          Bellingham

 Foden

Sancho    Sterling or Grealish

Kane

 

I mean it's not that far from what we play now, just removes a raw young kid and an utterly pointless player in mount. 

 

I think the thing that has frustrated me is that there really was no viable route into the team for Sancho, Grealish or Foden once Southgate doubled down on the defensive tactics. At least 2 of them (Sancho and Foden) should be starting virtually every game but they had 3 starts and about an hour off the bench between them. Mount started every game he was available for and Saka started 4 of the last 5.

 

If we’re going to insist on playing with a formation that fits a maximum of 4, and often 3, attacking players into the starting line up the first attribute we should be looking for is that they are the best attacking players. Saka and Mount are in the team primarily for their defensive attributes and Kane and Sterling wouldn’t be left out or even subbed off in a meaningful situation in a month of Sundays so Sancho and Foden are inevitably left kicking their heels. I’ve no doubt the situation would have been even worse if Rashford was fit as he is a Southgate favourite.

 

Foden in particular is an absolute freak, he was the best left sided forward in the Premier League last season, but is equally adept as a number 10 and has played well as a false 9. And we gave him two starts off the right before deciding we wanted an auxiliary full back instead. 

 

 

[AyewJoking]

The OP started this thread so we could show respect and acknowledge this team but it's become another topic used to slag them off.

 

Maybe that's what he wanted...

 

Edited 12 July 2021 by Royston.

[Babylon]

18 minutes ago, ttfn said:

I think the thing that has frustrated me is that there really was no viable route into the team for Sancho, Grealish or Foden once Southgate doubled down on the defensive tactics.

100% You could predict everything he was going to do.

[Raj]

Respect the players.

Especially  the black players who missed the penalties  but are now taking all the abuse, whilst the golden boys who didn't have the bo11ox can jet off to their holidays unscathed...

 

[RowlattsFox]

Usually at the end of tournament cycle you have a few that are no longer picked but only really Trippier, Walker and Henderson might fall into that category but they've all probably got another tournament in them. Would be harsh on Walker in particular after a good tournament. 

 

Foden, Grealish, Sancho, Bellingham barely got a kick all tournament, add Alexander-Arnold and you've got the makings of a really talented team. Mount had a good season but he was rubbish, like Saka but he isn't ahead of the others. Southgate just likes him because he can track back. I think there is actually a place for a 'number 10' if Maddison really wants it and makes his numbers impossible to ignore. Can't see how Barnes gets in unfortunately, no matter what he does. 

 

 

[foxes_rule1978]

There are far more positives than negatives, to only concede two goals and neither in open play was excellent. Pickford always performs for England and done his bit in the shoot out, an outstanding save from Jorginho’s especially. It is about making use of the attacking talent we have to really make it a complete side that can go that extra step.
 

Very good tournament and you have got to be proud of the lads for reaching a major final for the first time in 55 years. That Italy team is full of experienced players but we took them all the way. The talent is there in this England team to make an impact next year in Qatar 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 hours ago, That_Dude said:

Come on, that was one of the weakest Germany teams in decades. Especially with a washed up manager on his way out.

 

Southgate shat the bed and thought he could hold on that 1 goal advantage for 85 minutes. Let's not even talk about the penalty takers. I've never seen a team getting such easy runs like the WC 2018 and this tournament which was basically played at home. England made it to the finals despite Southgate not because of him. He's a chancer, a negative manager and will squander one of the best generations England ever had. 

Hard to disagree with any of this.

[foxes_rule1978]

2 hours ago, That_Dude said:

Come on, that was one of the weakest Germany teams in decades. Especially with a washed up manager on his way out.

 

Southgate shat the bed and thought he could hold on that 1 goal advantage for 85 minutes. Let's not even talk about the penalty takers. I've never seen a team getting such easy runs like the WC 2018 and this tournament which was basically played at home. England made it to the finals despite Southgate not because of him. He's a chancer, a negative manager and will squander one of the best generations England ever had. 

Still a German side that shown Portugal up… so what ever you think they have quality players. Now on to Southgate, he does have his negative points and yes not trusting his attacking players or taking enough risks is certainly the biggest of them.
 

However, we need to see if he learns like he did at the World Cup and we can make that forward step, he was within a shoot out of winning a major title… whatever you may think about how he has gone about doing that, the fact is you don’t get much closer without winning the thing. 

[Spudulike]

Going through a whole euros tournament without losing a game is pretty impressive. Shame that it came down to a post-match penalty shootout to decide who gets the trophy but c'est la vie, as they say in Rome (or was it B*Witched?). 

 

[filbertway]

11 hours ago, Webbo said:

If you win, you're a genius, if you lose you're a twat. That's life.

This is the mentality I hate Haha. Basing opinion on result rather than performance is my biggest pet peeves in football.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

100% You could predict everything he was going to do.

I’m not sure anyone was expecting Rashford to play right back ☺️ - or for Trippier to start the tournament at left wing back!

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

I’m not sure anyone was expecting Rashford to play right back ☺️ - or for Trippier to start the tournament at left wing back!

Ha, I was going to say barring the last minute of course when he lost the plot. 

 

But when he starts a formation, you can literally see pretty much where the changes will come because of his untouchables and his negativity. 

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

Going through a whole euros tournament without losing a game is pretty impressive. Shame that it came down to a post-match penalty shootout to decide who gets the trophy but c'est la vie, as they say in Rome (or was it B*Witched?). 

 

In Rome ..e'  la vita...

[purpleronnie]

9 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

What do you change to try and make us go that one step further? Or do we just go again one year older and wiser for the world cup?

I wonder if we're strong enough mentally to win a tournament?.  We seem to have it in certain situations but not consistently.  I do wonder if any of us (who weren't around in 66) will ever see England lift a trophy?, personally i don't think we will.  If you're a kid seeing us in a semi and a final you'll probably feel differently to us who have seen decades of failure.

 

It could be a depressing outlook but most countries national teams wont ever win a trophy.  The same goes for peoples domestic clubs, and it's there where we find our silver lining.  Most clubs won't win their top league or win the highest prized domestic cup, we've managed both...so it's pretty good overall.

[Spudulike]

19 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

I wonder if we're strong enough mentally to win a tournament?.  We seem to have it in certain situations but not consistently.  I do wonder if any of us (who weren't around in 66) will ever see England lift a trophy?, personally i don't think we will.  If you're a kid seeing us in a semi and a final you'll probably feel differently to us who have seen decades of failure.

 

It could be a depressing outlook but most countries national teams wont ever win a trophy.  The same goes for peoples domestic clubs, and it's there where we find our silver lining.  Most clubs won't win their top league or win the highest prized domestic cup, we've managed both...so it's pretty good overall.

We've come close twice now in the last two major international tournaments but I don't think we'll ever see a dominant England whilst we have the prevailing club before country mindset. 

 

But I agree that our honours board looks very decent and in comparison to most others is impressive. 

[Daggers]

Now I've sobered up, I'm pretty certain Southgate is the man for the job. I may not have liked his defensive leanings, but I'm reasonable confident he'll learn from this experience. I can't say I've ever been prouder of a team either.

 

I've been off England since the Goldenballs generation, following what's gone on I'm going to get a travel club membership.

 

Saying other managers would've done the job is complete tripe.

[whoareyaaa]

13 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Don’t want to be too hard on Southgate, after all he’s done much better than practically anyone expected. But surely it isn’t a good idea to bring players on specifically to take a penalty right at the end when they haven’t had chance to kick a ball. Coming on cold to take a pen as almost the first touch of a ball must be frightening.

its a barmy decision, it's basically like throwing them into a big burning fire.. made the grelish sub way to late as well and to not have him taking a peno, its a colossal of errors

[fuchsntf]

I am probably One of the few, ( from fans), who believe Southgate has done a reasonable job,since his appointment..

We went through this Euro-Tournament unbeaten,hes dared to Pick a exciting squad & a Mix of fancied & not fancied expected players for his squad...

 I believe "the team"  is respected...

But in getting this young exciting squad together...Southgate seemed adamant to Trust in his attacking players & an attacking  format..

Grealish,Sancho, Foden ( though nursing a niggle) Plus other Choice of strikers,by at least Not introducing a couple as subs,through the tournament,

Then last night, Not to change the angle of approach, like Mancini was prepared to do...

 

I wasnt against  Saka' selection, he could of changed it, But around the Team we had potential subs from successfull,higher places squads,who had successful seasons.

 

Southgate can still do a Good job...He can learn ,like the younger players will...He has to Trust Now the attacking potential of this squad,& new players,that will

Inevitably start knocking in the door..We know we have a decent choice of Bline players ,ist Finding from those attacking Minded players, game changers, Not

one Route or system, but a Choice of players, that accumalate Int caps & experience, that gives one, more Tools & alternatives from the squad-sack..!!ich

 

Southgate Chose a Great squad but was not prepared to use,interlink or interchange the attacking options, in Front of the backline...So those attacking options,were Never put to the test..!!

 

We are so close, but still so far away...

Another thing, Southgate should Take some of the critic...But These players, has the chosen Internationale ,the best at their job,an higher understanding of

a games needs...

Gerrard & Lampard, liked to Blame the boss,that doesn't sit with me.

 

Beckenbauer Once said, " International players have no excuse on their on-field game,they

are chosen  for their better equipped all round skills ,mentality and in game descisions, outside 1-2 Youngsters if chosen for their potential raw impact...

The Squad failing to hold an high line or high press,or decision making  after accumalting  an average of 20 Caps hasnt the right to look to the Bench for Blame" .

 

If Walker,Grealish,Henderson ( taken off),  Rashford,or Sancho( After playing 15 minutes) had missed their penalties,..I would of still been upset,

but shit happens. Again at International level, you have to be at least be prepared,including how One chooses to take them....

I would prefer no Wildcard Choice of Penalty taking technic, but then again thats why we Love football, individual players quirks & Open arrogance,they are

answerable for their & the moments consequences..Even the young players like Saka have to Face up sometimes,

though IMO Southgate had & should of been wiser on the night better alternatives..

 

 

6 games  it seems Southgate hadnt chosen with Knowledge of all his squad players who will be First 5 or necessary potential replacement penalty takers.

Every Single Squad Member should of been Assigned Penalty priorities....From date of  squad selection & First get together...

I am afraid that comes down to manager Southgate.