Brentford 1-2 LCFC - Post Match Thread

[orangecity23]

• Complains about how unlucky Brentford were to concede a long range shot
• Claims Brentford deserved to win, and are cleverly targeting corners as a source of goals

https://sports.stackexchange.com/questions/977/what-percent-of-corner-kicks-turn-into-goals

 

Quote

The percent of goals from corners is changing from league to league, for one competition to another and for one year to another. For example on 2010 World Cup 1 goal scored for every 70 corners taken,

but generally the ratio of corners to goals is almost zero.

Take a look at Ratio of Corners to Goal in the EPL

You can see that Fulham who has the best ratio has 0.07 goals for corner.

 

Therefore, Brentford very lucky to score the one goal they got, deserved to lose to the near certain XG goal from Madison rolling the ball into the empty net.

[Number 6]

I think the one thing that has probably irked many is this notion that Brentford have uncovered some magic formula and because they do well on xG then they deserve to win games. There isn't a club in the division who won't be pouring over those stats; yes some will put more stock in it than others but with the money at stake absolutely everyone is doing this and has been for years.

 

xG is really good for assessing the quality of chances created, and I think if its use had been prominent in 2016 then people might have appreciated us as a side a little bit more. But it's again just a tool to try and aid decision making and performance. Brentford have done that brilliantly and I think they will stay up fairly comfortably now. But some of the noise they make about it is a bit cringey (e.g having their own 'justice league').

 

Overall I think they're a good addition to the league though, I prefer then to some of the dross and they're a really well managed club which is commendable.

[Carl the Llama]

10 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I think that @NewBee lost any credibility when he compared Brentford with Barcelona & Man City. 

But they've only done that once out of 27 comments, that's only about 4 times every 100, you can't call them delusional based on those figures.

 

3 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Yes that seems fair enough - I'm sure on reflection he'd probably put it slightly differently now, and there is always the risk that speaking in your non-native tongue can lead to misunderstandings too. Plus a small proportion of us seem absolutely determined to be offended anyway...

Generally I agree with your outlook on interpersonal communication but you give this guy too much credit imo.  Seems to think the game is played on a calculator and doesn't want to consider the slightest constructive criticism of his club.  Fair enough, nobody likes to hear bad things about their heroes, but then don't go onto opposing forums to let them all know they 'just don't get it' if you're not willing to hear contrary views, many of which have been made respectfully.

 

[Guest SO1]

 Saw 22 pages on Brentford and this is what I find......another Foxestalk classic

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, mozartfox said:

If the EPL loses (finally) Burnley this season, then at least we have an over-ready replacement in the Bees. The only difference would be Dyche has short ginger hair.

God it’s like Sheffield United and their overlapping centre backs, the most amazing tactical masterstroke in history, guaranteed to have them challenging for European places for years to come….. oh they got their arses handed to them second season and were relegated.

[Fox92]

7 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Poor bloke cos I think he looks a great keeper but I hope the Brentford fans who gave Perez grief for ‘time wasting’ and moaning at their own player for kicking the ball out think  about it next time 

Made me laugh how much stick we got for "time wasting" yet every time they had a long throw it resulted in one of their players going down.

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

But they've only done that once out of 27 comments, that's only about 4 times every 100, you can't call them delusional based on those figures.

 

Generally I agree with your outlook on interpersonal communication but you give this guy too much credit imo.  Seems to think the game is played on a calculator and doesn't want to consider the slightest constructive criticism of his club.  Fair enough, nobody likes to hear bad things about their heroes, but then don't go onto opposing forums to let them all know they 'just don't get it' if you're not willing to hear contrary views, many of which have been made respectfully.

 

One could easily make the same point to many people on this forum, Carl. He's every right to be on here and argue his case - he's entirely reasonable in the way he stands his ground, and inoffensive too.

[orangecity23]

Brentford forum pre game threads be like:

 

[Carl the Llama]

12 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

One could easily make the same point to many people on this forum, Carl. He's every right to be on here and argue his case - he's entirely reasonable in the way he stands his ground, and inoffensive too.

I disagree that it's reasonable to get so tied up in what % of Youri's goals can be defined in the scientific category of 'worldies' and how regularly he scores them instead of looking at what can be learned from the match. One or two comments on it, fair enough, but this guy is obsessed with that one goal being what decided the match when, as I said previously to them, they did actually equalise after it and failed to hold on to parity.

[Ric Flair]

6 hours ago, NewBee said:

Except that he didn't say it was "lucky", since everyone knows that YT has that sort of goal in his armoury.

 

But we also know that he only brings it out 2 or 3 times a season.

 

Meaning that it was unlucky for BFC that this happened to be one of those times, and in a game which was otherwise even. (That is, had either team been 2 or 3 goals ahead, the goal would have been appreciated solely on its own merits, outwith its significance on the result.)

 

Anyhow, I fully understand why YT is such a favourite of yours, and why you want to support your guy. But from knowing how TF works, I genuinely believe some of you are seeing offence in his comment where none was intended.

Are you unlucky when you concede set piece goals to defenders who only score 2 or 3 a season too? 

[BKLFox]

Maddison must be wiping his forehead and saying phew as I’m sure Perez is going to become the Bees new hate figure as that clash he had with Raya at the end has put the keeper out of action for 4-5mths.

 

So it begins for them, hope for a speedy recovery

 

Edited 26 October 2021 by BKLFox

[AKCJ]

41 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Are you unlucky when you concede set piece goals to defenders who only score 2 or 3 a season too? 

Probably not when the team you scored it against concedes from a corner every frigging week.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

I disagree that it's reasonable to get so tied up in what % of Youri's goals can be defined in the scientific category of 'worldies' and how regularly he scores them instead of looking at what can be learned from the match. One or two comments on it, fair enough, but this guy is obsessed with that one goal being what decided the match when, as I said previously to them, they did actually equalise after it and failed to hold on to parity.

Again, I beg to differ. He's simply trying to rationalise his manager's comments. Please don't think I agree with every word he's saying because I don't.

 

However, it's a very FT outnumbering of an outsider, to my eyes anyway. 

[FoxOnWheels]

Think a lot of people are arguing with him for the sake of it, I like it when other fans come on here myself and there’s been many worse than than newbee 

[OntarioFox]

20 minutes ago, FoxOnWheels said:

Think a lot of people are arguing with him for the sake of it, I like it when other fans come on here myself and there’s been many worse than than newbee 

he certainly generated quite a buzz

 

... I'll get me coat. 

[HybridFox]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Their keeper is out for 4-5 months after colliding with Perez

My heart bleeds 

[Carl the Llama]

3 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Again, I beg to differ. He's simply trying to rationalise his manager's comments. Please don't think I agree with every word he's saying because I don't.

 

However, it's a very FT outnumbering of an outsider, to my eyes anyway. 

Well this is a City forum so it's only natural the same hero defending that Newbee's engaging in presents itself more thoroughly in the other direction.

 

Fwiw I took Frank's comments as typical manager speak, saying what his players/fans want to hear, which is always better than a Mourinho backstabbing.  My initial thoughts were that a few on here were being a bit precious about his words.  I only had issue with Newbee taking them as gospel and getting upset with City fans on their own forum for disagreeing that they were a fair critique of the match..

You're right they aren't being overtly rude but there's a definite element of the WUM about going over to transfermarkt and coming back to edit his post with a "well he's only scored this many goals in all those matches" as though we're talking about some clogger who happened to be in the right place at the right time and not one of the best midfielders on the planet right now with a solid reputation for his long range technique.  Maybe it's not deliberate wumming but when you're claiming to be all about stats and analysis it's shockingly poor use of analytical skills and plain daft to expect it to end well on a forum where most posters are intimately familiar with Youri's skillset so can see through it in a heartbeat.  I guess above all it's the lack of humility in the face of more knowledgeable responses that grinds me the wrong way.

 

Anyway I think that's enough energy dedicated to this sub-topic for me, doubt there's really any more to say on it,

Edited 26 October 2021 by Carl the Llama

[Bats8711]

Imagine for a second that Vardy isn’t the greatest footballer ever, doesn’t score the winner vs Man U and we end up drawing. 
 

the forum is abuzz (pun intended!) with “bottlers”, Brendans lost the plot with 3 at the back, and speculation on who will replace him - Potter or Frank. 

 

He trots out for his post game

and says “Well, first thing’s first - let’s all appreciate the beauty of Greenwood’s strike”. 

 

The servers FT is hosted on would explode. 
 

Newsflash - he isn’t talking to us. Also I for one welcome NewBee and and love the user name.

Edited 27 October 2021 by Bats8711

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, Bats8711 said:

Imagine for a second that Vardy isn’t the greatest footballer ever, doesn’t score the winner vs Man U and we end up drawing. 
 

the forum is abuzz (pun intended!) with “bottlers”, Brendans lost the plot with 3 at the back, and speculation on who will replace him - Potter or Frank. 

 

He trots out for his post game

and says “Well, first thing’s first - let’s all appreciate the beauty of Greenwood’s strike”. 

 

The servers FT is hosted on would explode. 
 

Newsflash - he isn’t talking to us. Also I for one welcome NewBee and and love the user name.

Im sure he would find a way of attaching the blame to Nacho

 

[Ric Flair]

7 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Probably not when the team you scored it against concedes from a corner every frigging week.

Haha I wasn't referring to their goal, I had forgotten about that more just that defenders only score a few a season in general and therefore any time one scores and wins points it ought to be deemed a bit unlucky.

 

All games should be decided by xG and by players who score regularly.

[Sly]

The moneyball was put into place by Warbuton at Brentford I believe, a system they’ve done really well to outperform expectation. 
 

To a degree, it’s worked and I’ve enjoyed watching them this year and they’ve gone toe to toe with pretty much everyone they’ve faced. The issue they’ll now have, is that so many more scouting setups are utilising this approach, that the talent pool means they’ll need to spend more to compete. It’s a question on whether they can continue to unearth gems (in a similar way to we did), or they’ll need to start paying more for players, like we did with Fofana. Ultimately, do they have the natural cash flow to spend that much and push themselves beyond their means to do that? 
 

They’ve clearly taken calculated risks with the building of infrastructure, however that’s a calculated gamble, where assets have a payback. Purchasing football players, is more of a lottery and as we found with the signings of Silva, Slimani, Musa etc, it can go very wrong. 
 

Sometimes, the stats have to be taken into consideration as wel

with the moneyball numbers. In example, Rachid Ghezza last season, posted great assists, Xg, key passes and has 25 goal involvements in 31 games I believe. However, having watched him play, we sort of knew he wasn’t suited to the Premier League.
 

It all depends on the matrix of player you sign, as age profiling etc will

come into this. 

[Leeds Fox]

14 hours ago, Babylon said:

God it’s like Sheffield United and their overlapping centre backs, the most amazing tactical masterstroke in history, guaranteed to have them challenging for European places for years to come….. oh they got their arses handed to them second season and were relegated.

A bit like Leeds this year.

 

Gung-ho football isn’t going so well for them now they struggle to score.

 

Leeds fans were hopeful (some arrogantly so) that they’d be contenders for Europe this season.

 

Never even attempted to improve their squad.

 

Anyway, back on topic… 

[Jobyfox]

12 hours ago, FoxOnWheels said:

Think a lot of people are arguing with him for the sake of it, I like it when other fans come on here myself and there’s been many worse than than newbee 

No they’re ****ing not!! 

[foxes_rule1978]

12 hours ago, FoxOnWheels said:

Think a lot of people are arguing with him for the sake of it, I like it when other fans come on here myself and there’s been many worse than than newbee 

I think it is more they don’t agree with his points. Brentford played well, they just don’t have the quality we have in players like tielemans.. they will survive for sure, they are a good side. 

[FoxOnWheels]

7 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

I think it is more they don’t agree with his points. Brentford played well, they just don’t have the quality we have in players like tielemans.. they will survive for sure, they are a good side. 

Don’t think he really said the opposite to that seemed more like he was clearing up their managers comments