If Rodgers Goes...

[messerschmitt]

1 hour ago, kiwiturk said:

Money talks and of course some reputable agents in between as well.

The reality is and always will be, we will not able to assemble a team filled with expensive superstars like Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea or Liverpool but if we'll able to bring talented football manager/agent duo like Galtier- Campos then we may have a real shot for the top 4.

What Galtier and Campos done at Lille last season was remarkable.

They brought no names, semi retired and talented young players into the team and created well oiled machine. 

 

Did Campos go with him to Nice? he seems like the genius on recruitment.

[Ric Flair]

57 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

At the risk of being a traitor to Team Back 4 and having @Mark ban me, a back 3 isn't inherently a bad thing.

 

You wouldn't turn down Gasperini, would you? Nobody would call his teams boring or dull. 

 

352/343 is incompatible with Rodgers, it's not incompatible with our squad. To be honest, I think a lot of us understand why he keeps leaning towards it because our squad actually has a lot of the right ingredients.

 

It just doesn't work and never has worked with a patient, possession based, "tika taka" inspired system that requires maximum width. 

I don't think we have the defenders for it though, or an ACM that revels in the system. Would need huge changes IMO

[Le Renard]

1 hour ago, kiwiturk said:

Once again, Christophe Galtier...

We need a super coach who can manage, motivate and flourish a modest team to compete and win a title. 

He's done this with Lille against PSG.

We should go after him at all cost. ( I still think he'll cost less than what we pay for BR)

 

This would be a great replacement, but with Nice being bank rolled by Multi Billionaire owner Jim Radcliffe, I'm not sure it would be possible, also he's never managed outside of France.

[Ric Flair]

53 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

https://breakingthelines.com/tactical-analysis/tactical-analysis-christophe-galtiers-lille/

 

Seems alright 

He's superb, probably the one with the more momentum out of him and Rudi Garcia but given the difficulty in getting Galtier, Garcia would come to us I reckon if Rodgers does piss off to Utd.

[Finnegan]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

I don't think we have the defenders for it though, or an ACM that revels in the system. Would need huge changes IMO

 

I don't agree honestly. I think Cags and Wes are perfect to be the left and right CBs and a fit Evans is an ideal anchor to keep them both in check. It's just, obviously, we've not had those guys fit together this year. 

 

As for attacking midfielders, Madders has all the tools necessary to do that role. If he's inexperienced playing in that system then that's where good coaching comes in. 

 

And, again, that's not been Rodgers strength because its not a system he likes and isn't familiar with himself. 

[volpeazzurro]

58 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

https://breakingthelines.com/tactical-analysis/tactical-analysis-christophe-galtiers-lille/

 

Seems alright 

That's really interesting don't you think. Not only tactically, but on the surface, appears tailor made for a club like us that has the type of approach to the transfer market that we have. 

 

Obviously I haven't a clue about his man management and language skills (just past thoughts of Puel problems that's all) but on the surface looks a very interesting individual! Soumare would of course have the inside track on him.

[coolhandfox]

18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't think we have the defenders for it though, or an ACM that revels in the system. Would need huge changes IMO

Aren't we unbeaten when Evans, Fofona, and Cags have started in a 3?

 

I think we would have to be more advantageous and not play two traditional wingbacks/full backs in both wide areas.

 

 

[sacreblueits442]

8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't agree honestly. I think Cags and Wes are perfect to be the left and right CBs and a fit Evans is an ideal anchor to keep them both in check. It's just, obviously, we've not had those guys fit together this year. 

 

As for attacking midfielders, Madders has all the tools necessary to do that role. If he's inexperienced playing in that system then that's where good coaching comes in. 

 

And, again, that's not been Rodgers strength because its not a system he likes and isn't familiar with himself. 

...Cags struggles in a back three...!!!

 Does not know if he should engage an attacker or hold his ground, it seems that there are more variables playing in a three than playing in a back four.

  If your Wingback is caught out of position with a back three and a CB you have to go and attempt to close down the danger, Cags always chooses to hold his position on the edge of the box, hoping that a midfielder will come in and do the role that he should do. In a back Four you cover the fullback (dovetailing behind) incase he is beaten by the attacker, only one decision to make.

  Madders is looking better recently, but he is not a dynamic player and we lose a lot of energy in a position which we need to impose ourselves. 

[kiwiturk]

28 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

That's really interesting don't you think. Not only tactically, but on the surface, appears tailor made for a club like us that has the type of approach to the transfer market that we have. 

 

Obviously I haven't a clue about his man management and language skills (just past thoughts of Puel problems that's all) but on the surface looks a very interesting individual! Soumare would of course have the inside track on him.

Absolutely, 

He knows how to get best out of his players.

Fonte and Burak are both over 35 years old re-born under him. 

Brought no name young Canadian striker and made him the one of the top striker in Ligue1.

Help some players to rejuvenate their career such as Renato Sanchez and Botman. 

Great coach, Great individual. He would be a perfect fit for us.

And he speaks English 

 

Edited 16 November 2021 by kiwiturk

[Finnegan]

28 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

Cags struggles in a back three...!!!

 Does not know if he should engage an attacker or hold his ground

 

But, again, this is about coaching and experience.

 

Cags struggles because Rodgers isn't an exemplary defensive coach, the centre back on his coaching staff is a fairly young coach (Toure) whose positional discipline was never his greatest strength, Rodgers doesn't have a vast amount of experience coaching 352 and hasn't historically preferred it. Moreover, we have a habit of constantly chopping and changing between formations and line-ups when things go wrong which creates hideous inconsistency of selection which is detrimental to establishing good form in a defensive shape.

 

The 15/16 dream team were awesome defensively despite none of Morgan, Huth, Fuchs or Simpson being world class players because they were well drilled, extremely familiar with each other and knew almost telepathically where they'd be. We won't have that with the likes of Cags and Baby Wes if we keep changing the dynamics every few games. 

 

When I say is perfect to play in that system, I mean he has all of the right characteristics, he's technically capable on the ball and an athletic monster. But, as with Madders in the final third, he needs good coaching from someone with a good understanding of the shape and system. 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

23 minutes ago, kiwiturk said:

Absolutely, 

He knows how to get best out of his players.

Fonte and Burak are both over 35 years old re-born under him. 

Brought no name young Canadian striker and made him the one of the top striker in Ligue1.

Help some players to rejuvenate their career such as Renato Sanchez and Botman. 

Great coach, Great individual. He would be a perfect fit for us.

And he speaks English 

 

Jonathan David who they bought from Lille for 30m after scoring a lot of goals in Belgium and was one of the most highly sought after talents in Europe?

 

'No name' 🤣🤣🤣

[Bluetintedspecs]

Gerrim in

 

[kiwiturk]

21 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Jonathan David who they bought from Lille for 30m after scoring a lot of goals in Belgium and was one of the most highly sought after talents in Europe?

 

'No name' 🤣🤣🤣

Stop knit picking stuff and get a life, be a concern fan and actually do something productive for your life and your club. 

Bloody moron

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't agree honestly. I think Cags and Wes are perfect to be the left and right CBs and a fit Evans is an ideal anchor to keep them both in check. It's just, obviously, we've not had those guys fit together this year. 

 

As for attacking midfielders, Madders has all the tools necessary to do that role. If he's inexperienced playing in that system then that's where good coaching comes in. 

 

And, again, that's not been Rodgers strength because its not a system he likes and isn't familiar with himself. 

You might be right, but what's the point may I ask? We could coach them to play 6-1-3 or 4-2-4 and/or buy the players that fit that system but why when we have the players to play 4-1-4-1 / 4-2-3-1 very well.

 

3 at the back by and large is turgid, there's only a few teams that impress me playing it and it tends to make the mercurial winger position obsolete which I will not negotiate on. Its like you turning up and trying to convince me to buy a soulless new build house with 8 needless bogs with every room, bugger all parking and a garden the size of a shed when I'm a sucker for a period feature and a doer upper. 

 

Say NO to 3 at the back, it's whack

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

You might be right, but what's the point may I ask? We could coach them to play 6-1-3 or 4-2-4 and/or buy the players that fit that system but why when we have the players to play 4-1-4-1 / 4-2-3-1 very well.

 

3 at the back by and large is turgid, there's only a few teams that impress me playing it and it tends to make the mercurial winger position obsolete which I will not negotiate on. Its like you turning up and trying to convince me to buy a soulless new build house with 8 needless bogs with every room, bugger all parking and a garden the size of a shed when I'm a sucker for a period feature and a doer upper. 

 

Say NO to 3 at the back, it's whack

 

I don't particularly want us to play any formation over any other, if I'm honest. 

 

I'd much rather we play 3atb like Gasperini than 4atb like Sean Dyche, for example. Conversely, I'd rather we play 4atb like Ten Hag than 3atb like Nuno. It's swings and roundabouts. 

 

My point is only that I care far more about the quality and footballing philosophy of our next manager than his preferred formation. 

 

Three at the back isn't turgid by default, three at the back is turgid a la Brendan Rodgers. There's a difference. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Aren't we unbeaten when Evans, Fofona, and Cags have started in a 3?

 

I think we would have to be more advantageous and not play two traditional wingbacks/full backs in both wide areas.

 

 

Yeah think we've played it 3 times in the league and the QF, semis and final of the FA Cup. 

[lcfcsnow]

6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I'd much rather we play 3atb like Gasperini than 4atb like Sean Dyche, for example. Conversely, I'd rather we play 4atb like Ten Hag than 3atb like Nuno. It's swings and roundabouts. 

Difference is when we've got Ricardo and Castagne its 3atb. When we we've got Castagne and Bertrand/Thomas its 5atb. Either way its shite and gives us next to no options out wide apart from defenders being asked to attack.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

He's superb, probably the one with the more momentum out of him and Rudi Garcia but given the difficulty in getting Galtier, Garcia would come to us I reckon if Rodgers does piss off to Utd.

Thing is, its all moot as Rodgers is not getting sacked (unless we have a proper implosion) and Man Utd is not coming in for him as he is not brand enough for them

Edited 16 November 2021 by Dahnsouff

[filbertway]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Wilder has done really well wherever he's been but some of his signings in the PL were questionable. Brewster £23.5m, McBurnie £20m, Mousset £10m, the two full backs from Derby were £10m each I think.

 

I have no doubt he will get Middlesbrough up but I'll be interested to see how he does in the PL again because that second season at Sheffield United, in the PL, was one of the worse teams I've ever seen.

I'd agree on that, no idea how much say he had in them, but if he did come, I'd expect him to be nowhere near recruitment. Let the specialists crack on with that.

 

In terms of man management and getting his teams competing above themselves, he seems incredible. Surprised he wasn't considered for Villa/Norwich, but not sure if he had already agreed to to to boro at this point. It sounded like things really weren't right behind the scenes in his final season, the team that went down was getting spanked in the championship till they invested heavily. So I think it makes the first season in the prem even more impressive.

[sacreblueits442]

53 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But, again, this is about coaching and experience.

 

Cags struggles because Rodgers isn't an exemplary defensive coach, the centre back on his coaching staff is a fairly young coach (Toure) whose positional discipline was never his greatest strength, Rodgers doesn't have a vast amount of experience coaching 352 and hasn't historically preferred it. Moreover, we have a habit of constantly chopping and changing between formations and line-ups when things go wrong which creates hideous inconsistency of selection which is detrimental to establishing good form in a defensive shape.

 

The 15/16 dream team were awesome defensively despite none of Morgan, Huth, Fuchs or Simpson being world class players because they were well drilled, extremely familiar with each other and knew almost telepathically where they'd be. We won't have that with the likes of Cags and Baby Wes if we keep changing the dynamics every few games. 

 

When I say is perfect to play in that system, I mean he has all of the right characteristics, he's technically capable on the ball and an athletic monster. But, as with Madders in the final third, he needs good coaching from someone with a good understanding of the shape and system. 

.. you have got to say, waiting for your defensive coach to tell you what you should already  know is not good!!!

  They must watch Match of the Day, they must surely go on YouTube and view the ideas of various coaches. He must surely have that information in his locker, bring it to his coach and discuss how to put it into practice.

  You see other players doing it, why would you not be looking to improve your own game.

  Vardy did it in the off season some time ago, Chilwell I believe did the same thing, even in Rugby players out of season work on an element of their game, it looks like it all comes back to iniative.

 Cags loves to play in a controlled manner and likes a defence free from chaos and defenders diving around and blocking shots. You can see he is not happy in those instances. 

[BenTheFox]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I'd agree on that, no idea how much say he had in them, but if he did come, I'd expect him to be nowhere near recruitment. Let the specialists crack on with that.

 

In terms of man management and getting his teams competing above themselves, he seems incredible. Surprised he wasn't considered for Villa/Norwich, but not sure if he had already agreed to to to boro at this point. It sounded like things really weren't right behind the scenes in his final season, the team that went down was getting spanked in the championship till they invested heavily. So I think it makes the first season in the prem even more impressive.

I always find that concept to be completely baffling. 

 

I know it's not like the old days where you'd have 'Arry leaning out of his car on transfer deadline day after signing Krancjar, Defoe and Crouch for the 15th time, but I find it remarkable that a manager i.e. the person who sets the team up and gives the players instructions wouldn't have any say on players that are coming in. I don't expect them sit through videos analysing the player's performances for hours and hours, but I would expect them to have at least some say on it.

[filbertway]

Just now, BenTheFox said:

I always find that concept to be completely baffling. 

 

I know it's not like the old days where you'd have 'Arry leaning out of his car on transfer deadline day after signing Krancjar, Defoe and Crouch for the 15th time, but I find it remarkable that a manager i.e. the person who sets the team up and gives the players instructions wouldn't have any say on players that are coming in. I don't expect them sit through videos analysing the player's performances for hours and hours, but I would expect them to have at least some say on it.

I'd expect the scouting team to go away, find players based on a list of requirements and then come back and meet with the manager and director of football and then decide which players to try and sign. 

 

I probably should have been a bit more clearer, I'd expect a manager to be have a say at the final stage. I would not expect the manager to be anywhere near the process of looking for and finding potential targets. The decision on which players to try and sign would be a discussion between head of recruitment, dof and manager.

[sacreblueits442]

4 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

I always find that concept to be completely baffling. 

 

I know it's not like the old days where you'd have 'Arry leaning out of his car on transfer deadline day after signing Krancjar, Defoe and Crouch for the 15th time, but I find it remarkable that a manager i.e. the person who sets the team up and gives the players instructions wouldn't have any say on players that are coming in. I don't expect them sit through videos analysing the player's performances for hours and hours, but I would expect them to have at least some say on it.

....it is a team which decide who comes in and the manager is also involved....!!!

[Finnegan]

9 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.. you have got to say, waiting for your defensive coach to tell you what you should already  know is not good!!!

  They must watch Match of the Day, they must surely go on YouTube and view the ideas of various coaches. He must surely have that information in his locker, bring it to his coach and discuss how to put it into practice.

  You see other players doing it, why would you not be looking to improve your own game.

  Vardy did it in the off season some time ago, Chilwell I believe did the same thing, even in Rugby players out of season work on an element of their game, it looks like it all comes back to iniative.

 Cags loves to play in a controlled manner and likes a defence free from chaos and defenders diving around and blocking shots. You can see he is not happy in those instances. 

 

I don't want to be offensive but there's a ridiculous amount of naivety in this post. All footballers are a product of their coaching. Vardy doesn't sit at home googling videos of strikers or reading the Dummy's Guide To Scoring Goals, he's had thousands of hours of coaching in his life from childhood to now. Even the concept of Vardy as this self-made zero-to-hero is nonsense, he was educated by Sheffield Wednesday, a massive footballing institution. There was a clear upturn in Vardy's adjustment to life playing Championship/Premiership football once Kevin Phillips came to the club and started working with him as a coach. 

 

Cags is still pretty young by centre back standards. He's got years of learning and experience yet to gain and a large part of that is going to be the coaching he gets along the way. It's also important to note that nobody defends alone, you defend as a team and that's all down to how you're co-ordinated and marshalled as a unit by the coaching staff of the club. 

[sacreblueits442]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't want to be offensive but there's a ridiculous amount of naivety in this post. All footballers are a product of their coaching. Vardy doesn't sit at home googling videos of strikers or reading the Dummy's Guide To Scoring Goals, he's had thousands of hours of coaching in his life from childhood to now. Even the concept of Vardy as this self-made zero-to-hero is nonsense, he was educated by Sheffield Wednesday, a massive footballing institution. There was a clear upturn in Vardy's adjustment to life playing Championship/Premiership football once Kevin Phillips came to the club and started working with him as a coach. 

 

Cags is still pretty young by centre back standards. He's got years of learning and experience yet to gain and a large part of that is going to be the coaching he gets along the way. It's also important to note that nobody defends alone, you defend as a team and that's all down to how you're co-ordinated and marshalled as a unit by the coaching staff of the club. 

...why would a player opt to have one on one coaching (out of season) unless he felt there was a deficiency in his game which he felt needed to be addressed!!!

  I am not suggesting players are sitting down trawling through videos, just looking at the players who play in your position and try to learn from them.