ATMOSPHERE THURSDAY

[samlcfc]

The lack of psychological resilience it must take to resort to violence when someone feels inconvenienced, for all of what.....five minutes at a push?

 

Staggering to be honest, their day to day lives must be a ****ing nightmare. 

 

I hope the club doesn't pick-up on small issues and cancel any future arrangements they have with the group who put the TIFO up. Sounds like they go to some decent effort to sort it out and considering it's up and down relatively quick, I can't really see an issue. I was in the Kop last night, but saw a picture after the game and thought it looked pretty smart. Good effort!

 

Personally enjoy the group up in the corner making some noise. I don't get constantly involved like I might have a while back, but it definitely seems to add something. 

[hejammy]

49 minutes ago, Christoph said:

 

 

More entertaining than shooting a bunch of fruit of loom tshirts to people anyway. 

Unless you catch one and it's happy days for a free t-shirt  

 

...... And then you realise it's a small... 

Edited 26 November 2021 by hejammy

[purpleronnie]

Fair play to the club they've got exactly what they wanted.  A stadium packed with families and those who actively want to shut down any kind of atmosphere.

 

It's baffling to me given clubs around the world actively encourage fans to create an atmosphere yet we in England want the opposite...it's embarrassing to be be the butt of jokes from fans around the world but we are.

 

I can't see how it will ever change.  Even safe standing if it was ever introduced to our stadium (that's a big IF), we'd just have the majority standing in silence filming themselves.

 

I applaud all those who continue to try and make a difference against all the odds, my fear is you're fighting a losing battle, but you do give me a small amount of hope that maybe, just maybe, things can change.

[hejammy]

Just now, purpleronnie said:

Fair play to the club they've got exactly what they wanted.  A stadium packed with families and those who actively want to shut down any kind of atmosphere.

 

It's baffling to me given clubs around the world actively encourage fans to create an atmosphere yet we in England want the opposite...it's embarrassing to be be the butt of jokes from fans around the world but we are.

 

I can't see how it will ever change.  Even safe standing if it was ever introduced to our stadium (that's a big IF), we'd just have the majority standing in silence filming themselves.

 

I applaud all those who continue to try and make a difference against all the odds, my fear is you're fighting a losing battle, but you do give me a small amount of hope that maybe, just maybe, things can change.

How disgusting our club is to try and encourage kids to come watch and families to sit together. Awful 

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

But in those decades there has been various ways of support which impede someone’s view of the pitch. Filbo for a good spell was balloons, ticker type/newspaper, surfers of a similar type. Spell of the 80s, we had inflatable toys as a craze. There’s always been phases and trends of things which are attempts at improve atmospheres which may come at the detriment to someone’s view of the pitch. 
 

To touch on your point in earlier post, no I wasn’t underneath yesterday’s display but as I said I was underneath it for Sevilla at home and my view was blocked for other European games where the club hung banners form the roof. 
 

Fans were informed. There was a message left connected to every seat. I don’t know why you are denying that with the clear evidence presented. The guys who’ve done that cant legislate if that goes missing. In the same way the club can’t do it if someone pinches the hand out freebies.
 

By the way did you think it was accept that the abuse of the lad who was controlling the tifo was physically assault? That dismissal you did over a number of posters was related closely to that. 

 

About time I got on with some work, but to answer your points......

 

- I accept your point that there have always been such occasional obstructions of view. I've not complained before when tifos have been used, but they were less disruptive before - they kept moving or moved on quickly and had little impact at the start of the match. This was different for the reasons I've already explained - I honestly didn't know if, when or how the sheet would be removed, aside from not knowing what it was all about. I also didn't like the mass overnight pile-on in this forum, condemning and abusing anyone who wasn't happy about how the tifo was used. I'm old enough not to give a shit about that personally, so there's an obligation on the likes of me to speak up, as younger or more timid posters might not feel able to do so (as I wouldn't have done back when I was young and timid, a long time ago).

 

- I've not denied that leaflets were left. Someone posted an image, so I believe them. But as one of the more reasonable people in this thread, you should also accept that for whatever reason I did not receive or see one. I don't know how it was "connected" to the seat - taped to the base? All I can say is that I arrived, grabbed the clapper and put it in my pocket (I rarely use it but my daughter likes to collect them), didn't see any other document and started chatting to my neighbours and getting psyched up for the match. I agree that nobody should be blamed if my seat was missed - and maybe it just fell out somehow or perhaps another fan took it.....yet other posters here have accused me of choosing "to be oblivious" to the leaflet and deliberately not reading it. Ridiculous! 

 

- I've already said (in my first post, I think) that I absolutely do not condone any abuse or assault on anyone controlling the tifo. I didn't see that, but if it happened, I absolutely condemn it - speaking to him politely to ask for it to be moved soon would be fair enough but any abuse is completely out of order.

[MattFox]

1 minute ago, purpleronnie said:

Fair play to the club they've got exactly what they wanted.  A stadium packed with families and those who actively want to shut down any kind of atmosphere.

 

It's baffling to me given clubs around the world actively encourage fans to create an atmosphere yet we in England want the opposite...it's embarrassing to be be the butt of jokes from fans around the world but we are.

 

I can't see how it will ever change.  Even safe standing if it was ever introduced to our stadium (that's a big IF), we'd just have the majority standing in silence filming themselves.

 

I applaud all those who continue to try and make a difference against all the odds, my fear is you're fighting a losing battle, but you do give me a small amount of hope that maybe, just maybe, things can change.

I’d argue it’s starting to go very slightly in the opposite direction again.

 

Attitudes towards safe standing have definitely altered at many clubs, largely due to fan pressure.

 

We actively promote the whole family club thing way more than anyone else

[GlennyFox55]

2 minutes ago, hejammy said:

How disgusting our club is to try and encourage kids to come watch and families to sit together. Awful 

Obviously not the point he is making. 

[SemperEadem]

47 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I did hear some distant music and an increase in crowd noise, so thought the players probably had come out. But I still didn't feel like cheering and chanting under an unexplained sheet that kept falling on my head.

 

Yes, a different culture - and if someone wants to introduce a new culture by copying or adapting a culture among continental fans, the onus is on them to get others on board or to do it in a way that doesn't bother others. It's not right that those who are put out by it should have it imposed on them and then be abused for raising objections.

 

There is a decades-old culture in this country of roaring your team onto the pitch. If you're going to interfere with that, you need to inform people properly and take some account of the pre-existing culture, even if it seems boring and old-fashioned to you.

Can I ask, did you still feel like this when the surfer of Vichai's face covered you or the ones the club do?

[hejammy]

12 minutes ago, GlennyFox55 said:

Obviously not the point he is making. 

Well then why lead with it? I'd much rather be a family oriented club than anywhere close to those that were in the away end last night. 

[Alf Bentley]

5 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Can I ask, did you still feel like this when the surfer of Vichai's face covered you or the ones the club do?

 

Sorry, mate, but I've really got to do some work now.

 

But I've essentially answered this in the first point to my reply that is 3 posts above yours.

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Fair play to the club they've got exactly what they wanted.  A stadium packed with families and those who actively want to shut down any kind of atmosphere.

 

It's baffling to me given clubs around the world actively encourage fans to create an atmosphere yet we in England want the opposite...it's embarrassing to be be the butt of jokes from fans around the world but we are.

 

I can't see how it will ever change.  Even safe standing if it was ever introduced to our stadium (that's a big IF), we'd just have the majority standing in silence filming themselves.

 

I applaud all those who continue to try and make a difference against all the odds, my fear is you're fighting a losing battle, but you do give me a small amount of hope that maybe, just maybe, things can change.

Things did change, remember the we luv yer chant with thousands swinging scarfs around,  that was a good atmosphere. What happened to stop that? 

[walkerleeds]

42 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

I've been in the Kop for 13-14 years and like it there, even if some of the comments on atmosphere are justified. But I like the view there and I like the people who sit near me. I don't want to move, thanks.....and "these things didn't happen" back in 2008. 

 

No tears here, mate. This is a forum and I'm just expressing views that happen to differ from yours. I also happen to enjoy arguing. 

 

There are much more important things in life than whether a few would-be members of some self-important, self-appointed cultural-copy-cat hipster elite disagree with my opinions.

It was actually only a minor annoyance last night. But there needs to be some comeback when a conformist parade of hipster posters hands out abuse to anyone who disagrees with them.

 

If the UFS "elite" get upset at people arguing back, perhaps they could take their pretty choo-choo train picture along to nursery on Monday. Teacher might give them a consolatory cuddle and a gold star. 

 

Times change buddy. Get on the train and move with them or get left behind.

[GlennyFox55]

8 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Well then why lead with it? I'd much rather be a family oriented club than anywhere close to those that were in the away end last night. 

I don’t think anyone’s calling for us to be anything close to that in terms of the violence/ racism etc.

 

You can be a family oriented/ widely accessible club while also catering/ help organise or support a decent section for a more vociferous support. There’s plenty of clubs in this country that manage to promote and cater for both. 

 

 

[hejammy]

2 minutes ago, GlennyFox55 said:

I don’t think anyone’s calling for us to be anything close to that in terms of the violence/ racism etc.

 

You can be a family oriented/ widely accessible club while also catering/ help organise or support a decent section for a more vociferous support. There’s plenty of clubs in this country that manage to promote and cater for both. 

 

 

Well isn't that the case already? Family stand and then we have the kop and L1? It's not really the clubs fault people chose to sit with kids in those stands and others who are not as vociferous chose to sit there?

[NasPb]

17 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Well then why lead with it? I'd much rather be a family oriented club than anywhere close to those that were in the away end last night. 

Two extremes mate, my lord you lot really have an issue with having a good atmosphere some of you, like what's the point? Are you against fans encouraging the team? Don't complain if we lose ever then tbh

[grobyfox1990]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Things did change, remember the we luv yer chant with thousands swinging scarfs around,  that was a good atmosphere. What happened to stop that? 

Yes good memory!! Top half premier league side now, that inevitably attarcts johnny come latelys who will all disappear again in a few years. Look at the ticket thread, how many people are begging for tickets to Villa, Leeds, Brentford away etc. They won't be around when we're back playing this lot on a Wednesday night in the championship. Also i agree with some of the points above claiming European clubs actively encourage fans to make a racket, but they would swap their fanbases with English clubs in a heartbeat. We are the richest and most powerful in the world.

[The_77]

30 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

About time I got on with some work, but to answer your points......

 

- I accept your point that there have always been such occasional obstructions of view. I've not complained before when tifos have been used, but they were less disruptive before - they kept moving or moved on quickly and had little impact at the start of the match. This was different for the reasons I've already explained - I honestly didn't know if, when or how the sheet would be removed, aside from not knowing what it was all about. I also didn't like the mass overnight pile-on in this forum, condemning and abusing anyone who wasn't happy about how the tifo was used. I'm old enough not to give a shit about that personally, so there's an obligation on the likes of me to speak up, as younger or more timid posters might not feel able to do so (as I wouldn't have done back when I was young and timid, a long time ago).

 

- I've not denied that leaflets were left. Someone posted an image, so I believe them. But as one of the more reasonable people in this thread, you should also accept that for whatever reason I did not receive or see one. I don't know how it was "connected" to the seat - taped to the base? All I can say is that I arrived, grabbed the clapper and put it in my pocket (I rarely use it but my daughter likes to collect them), didn't see any other document and started chatting to my neighbours and getting psyched up for the match. I agree that nobody should be blamed if my seat was missed - and maybe it just fell out somehow or perhaps another fan took it.....yet other posters here have accused me of choosing "to be oblivious" to the leaflet and deliberately not reading it. Ridiculous! 

 

- I've already said (in my first post, I think) that I absolutely do not condone any abuse or assault on anyone controlling the tifo. I didn't see that, but if it happened, I absolutely condemn it - speaking to him politely to ask for it to be moved soon would be fair enough but any abuse is completely out of order.

You’re imagining some mass pile on when you just keep making poor points. We all appreciate that you’re being very polite about this but that doesn’t mean anyone has to agree with you.
 

If you’ve been sitting in the kop for over a dozen years as you said, you’d have a perfect idea of just how long the display would be up and that you’d be in no danger of missing any real action, whether or not there was a leaflet on your seat. 

[GlennyFox55]

1 minute ago, hejammy said:

Well isn't that the case already? Family stand and then we have the kop and L1? It's not really the clubs fault people chose to sit with kids in those stands and others who are not as vociferous chose to sit there?

Partly yes, but the current sections are very limited in capacity or spread out across the back of a stand and it’s therefore difficult for people who want to move to these sections to do so and they’re pretty ineffective because of this.

 

Fans are unable to create or expand these sections themselves as the grounds been completely sold out basically every game since we got promoted. 
 

 

 

[hejammy]

3 minutes ago, GlennyFox55 said:

Partly yes, but the current sections are very limited in capacity or spread out across the back of a stand and it’s therefore difficult for people who want to move to these sections to do so and they’re pretty ineffective because of this.

 

Fans are unable to create or expand these sections themselves as the grounds been completely sold out basically every game since we got promoted. 
 

 

 

Agreed to some of your points here and maybe that is why the club are expanding the ground. 

 

But if the stadium is sold out every game what can the club do? How can they ask if the 'fan' will be singing and clapping all game or not? Safe standing and singing sections maybe a good way but they've tried the latter. If the fans who want to stand and sing all game want to come it begs the question why don't they? Why are they not able to get the tickets over those who are? 

[hejammy]

11 minutes ago, NasPb said:

Two extremes mate, my lord you lot really have an issue with having a good atmosphere some of you, like what's the point? Are you against fans encouraging the team? Don't complain if we lose ever then tbh

You lot? Who are you lot? Did anyone once mention we don't want a great atmosphere? Or against fans encouraging the team? So those who sing/stand or abuse are the only ones entitled to complain if we lose? Come out with some decent arguments and then maybe we can converse. 

[GlennyFox55]

3 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Agreed to some of your points here and maybe that is why the club are expanding the ground. 

 

But if the stadium is sold out every game what can the club do? How can they ask if the 'fan' will be singing and clapping all game or not? Safe standing and singing sections maybe a good way but they've tried the latter. If the fans who want to stand and sing all game want to come it begs the question why don't they? Why are they not able to get the tickets over those who are? 

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, having a clearly defined well positioned and large enough area/ block(s) is what is needed. Then it allows those who wish to to easily move to that area. Those that don’t know not to buy in that area and everyone enjoys their match experience how they wish while also hopefully boosting the overall atmosphere of the groubd

 

At present, especially in the kop, you need to know the exact row/ seat on where to move to to ensure you’ll be in an area where you can stand and sing without obstructing someones view.

Plenty of clubs have created sections like this.

 

United created a 3/4k ‘singing’ section this season.

 

Historically Derby, Forest, Huddersfield and Reading created ‘singing’ sections by moving the away ends.

 

Some of those above are what many would say are more family oriented clubs.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, BroughtonFox said:

Well you could always choose to sit in the other three stands we have. You’re located in the KOP ffs. These things happen.

 

stop crying because you couldn’t clap the players on  

Weird...Doesn't One go, so One can Enjoy the whole atmosphere including seeing & clapping your team on..

Its also Not Really a KOP,from physic,  from atmosphere, 90 minutes support, diverse People who SIT there...

I Support @Alf Bentley on this...but also see the other side of the "actual discussion/point", But like many points on a Football forum, gets lost in

personal-attacks-sarcasm & failing to Keep to point....!!

[StanSP]

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

What extraordinary toxic arrogance from you lot!

Who are you to expect other fans to allow you to prevent them from cheering their team out? And then to abuse fellow fans who don't appreciate your unexplained ways. You're behaving like some divisive, self-appointed elite....

 

It's not about "seeing players walk out onto a pitch" or watching "players still standing facing the East Stand". Seeing the players come out is important not just in building anticipation but so that fans can cheer or voice support however they see fit. That has probably existed as long as football has been a spectator sport......until some hipster elite decides that they're entitled to put a sheet over people's heads so they can't even tell if the players have come out.

 

I don't condone anyone punching people or ripping holes in your precious tifo (didn't see that so DK if true), but I can well understand people being angry at having this imposed on them without explanation. I was moderately pissed off myself.

 

I didn't know who had done this or why (the club? a fans' group? sponsors? UEFA?). Of course, I couldn't appreciate your pretty picture of a choo-choo train as I was underneath the fvcking thing!

Although I assumed it was a team support tifo, it could have been a King Power or UEFA logo, an abusive message or a photo of you lot mooning your fragrant, hairless arses for all I knew!

 

The sheet was placed on us at an important moment, with no indication as to when, how or if it would be removed. Such tifos have appeared before but have either appeared a bit earlier or been kept in motion so that it's obvious that they'll go away after a minute or two. This one appeared late and just stayed put for what seemed like an eternity.

 

The UFS web site talks of "bolstering the atmosphere" and ensuring fans "are able to actively engage on matchdays". They may or may not have "smashed the Tifo once again", but they also undermined the atmosphere and undermined fans' ability to actively engage (albeit only for 5-10 minutes)....and now their supporters are coming on FT abusing fellow fans who don't like having stuff imposed on them that disrupts their matchday.

 

Most folk are tolerant, so I'm sure if these tifos were publicised, appeared a bit earlier and were kept in circulation, then people would help you enjoy the match your way. If you can't manage that, perhaps you should just put your sheet with its pretty picture over your OWN heads and get your mates to take photos that you can post on Twitter, declaring yourselves to be the hippest dudes this side of Milan, unlike your contemptible fellow fans who just want to cheer their team on.

 

Surprising and disappointing to see so many posters repping @Munshi's particularly vile post arrogantly abusing his/her fellow fans - including posters I'd otherwise respect like @SemperEadem, @Rain King, @Voll Blau and @StanSP.

My +1 was for the Tifo comment. 

I don't agree with the abusive nature. 

[RonnieTodger]

1 hour ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Absolutely no chance. Watford, the all conquering Man City, Everton, Newcastle, Burnley… even the virgin Instagram banter boys on the laaaaash ‘palace ultras’ - all quiet 

 

the ones that ‘abused and blocked’ the Tifo will be less than 1%. Why get upset about less than 1 in 100 people. Bit of perspective needed surely. 

Respectfully disagree. I think if any of those clubs were in Europe, they’d put more effort in and not have so many being so confrontational.

 

It may be the 1%, but the general nimby attitude of “The Kop” is quite pathetic. 
 

Fair play to those that got behind it and weren’t angry at a bit of cloth hovering over their heads for a few minutes. 

[K1FOX]

5 hours ago, SemperEadem said:

Sadly on the night it really wasn’t much cop.

Was more in hope than expectation. We're done