Soumare

[Ric Flair]

33 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

As build a better squad, it become harder to improve it, with limited funds.

 

I don't think our record is too bad, 

 

 

Patson Daka	JURY OUT
Boubakary Soumaré	JURY OUT
Jannik Vestergaard	MISS
Ademola Lookman	HIT
Timothy Castagne	HIT
Wesley Fofana	HIT
Cengiz Ünder	MISS
James Justin	HIT
Ayoze Pérez	SPLIT DECISION
Dennis Praet	SPLIT DECISION
Ryan Bennett	MISS

 

 

My biggest gripe we have never improve RW which would be the easy position to find someone better.  

 

 

That is not a glowing indictment and you've been very generous on Perez and Praet.

[honeybradger]

40 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

As build a better squad, it become harder to improve it, with limited funds.

 

I don't think our record is too bad, 

 

 

Patson Daka	JURY OUT
Boubakary Soumaré	JURY OUT
Jannik Vestergaard	MISS
Ademola Lookman	HIT
Timothy Castagne	HIT
Wesley Fofana	HIT
Cengiz Ünder	MISS
James Justin	HIT
Ayoze Pérez	SPLIT DECISION
Dennis Praet	SPLIT DECISION
Ryan Bennett	MISS

 

 

My biggest gripe we have never improve RW which would be the easy position to find someone better.  

 

 

20 mil for praet and 30 mil for Perez. If praet was 10 mil and Perez was 15-20 mil you could argue that it's OK business but for those prices we've gotten very little out of the both of them.

[Dames]

23 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

That is not a glowing indictment and you've been very generous on Perez and Praet.

You can argue that Perez managed to hang around and contribute (not much) but Praet has been frozen out for the best part of 18 months. No split decision about it i'm afraid he's a miss.

[coolhandfox]

33 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

That is not a glowing indictment and you've been very generous on Perez and Praet.

Two of the misses are loans and were cheaper squad fillers.

 

Perez has played 101 games (In minutes, he played 58 whole games), 14 goals, and 11 assists. That's a goal contribution every 2.34 games (based on whole games) or every 210.68 minutes; that's not too shabby, especially if we can recoup 5m-10m after three years of service. I liked him, especially when he played in partnership with a fully fit Ricardo. 

 

The only issue is how much we pay, which no one can agree on, ranging from 30m to 16m. If he costs 30m, you have to say miss; if it's near 16m, I'd say he's not far off a hit.

 

Praet is a funny one. He couldn't break the Maddison, Tielemans, Nididi midfield trio up. Not sure there is any shame in that. He was an excellent squad player but didn't want to play back up. He would have been very useful this season if he'd hung around. 

 

Factor in we could sell the likes of Fofana for double what we paid and maybe make 30m on Justin if we sold him.  I think we have done ok, but if neither Daka or Soumare work out, it could swing the other way

 

 

Edited 25 May 2022 by coolhandfox

[coolhandfox]

34 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

20 mil for praet and 30 mil for Perez. If praet was 10 mil and Perez was 15-20 mil you could argue that it's OK business but for those prices we've gotten very little out of the both of them.

Depends on what sources you believe Perez was anywhere between 16m and 30m and Praet 18m -20m.

 

We are like to recoup 10m-12m on Praet if sold and more then like got a loan fee as well last season.

 

We have had 3 years service out of Perez and if he goes in the summer we could recoup 5m -10m.

 

So its not to bad.  

 

[volpeazzurro]

4 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

It's not. 

Not being funny, but have you an inkling what it might be then? A decent player at his last club but only tried in a different role here.

[volpeazzurro]

4 hours ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Wasn’t there rumours that both Vestegaard and Soumare weren’t BR signings, if so could make sense on them leaving already.

He didn't like Under either who also didn't appear to get much of a chance. Did he try any of them in the roles they're best in or merely rejected them because he didn't pick them and they couldn't adapt to his tired 'philosophy'?

[volpeazzurro]

3 hours ago, TommyK said:

I have no idea if this is the case but you can imagine BR being the type of manager that if he doesn't agree with a signing he just won't play them. Aka Soumare. 

It appears that way to me too.

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, The_77 said:

I wonder how well most of us would do at 22, moving to a new country with a new language where we’re competing against the best in the world. I think we’d require a bit of patience. 

When you're coming in at that price and from the Ligue 1 winners, more is expected of you, fast.

 

Not the player's fault, but clubs can't wait forever. Ndidi settled in immediately. Fofana settled in immediately. Ricardo had a shaky 4-5 games then became phenomenal. Castagne hit the ground running immediately with a goal on his debut. Soyuncu did take time, but back then we were a club who's expectations were mid-table to maybe getting into Europe. Now we are a club that expects Europe every year and to be challenging for cups. The quality barometer has increased massively!

 

KDH started the season behind Soumare in the pecking order. Imagine if he had been in the team from day one? Would our league position have improved? I think the answer is yes.

 

Players from abroad need time to settle, but can't be a waste of space either. Daka for me is a good example of what I'd expect from a young foreign signing. Largely inconsistent but made a real impact multiple times and looks like a player that will be here for a while. Soumare had some nice touches but plays in slow motion compared to Dewsbury-Hall, who cost us nothing and outperformed him in every metric.

 

Soumare will probably do well in France when he returns, just as Iborra did well at Villareal after leaving Leicester, and Kramaric when he went to Hoffenheim. Sometimes a player and club don't work out, even if the player is a good one. 

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, moore_94 said:

 

....we have an obsession with Southampton and much like the unwanted connection with Sporting, where things never work out!!!

Just strange that we keep on taking things from that club, you would think that they should be a club to avoid.

[volpeazzurro]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Of course no club gets every signing right but we're not far off about 50/50 I'd stagger a guess at? We must do better than that, this is what we pride ourselves on as a way of competing with the big 6.

 

I don't mind Rodgers acknowledging when he realises a player isn't currently/ever good enough and acting but history also shows that binning players off less than a year in to bringing them in would have prevented many successful players both here and in the history of the PL from doing what they did. 

 

 

Vardy and Marhez weren't instant regulars. Arguably players, particularly from abroad need two seasons. 

 

Chelsea were patient after one poor first season with Drogba, but must lament players like Salah and DeBreuyne!

[Le Renard]

Sometimes you go to a new place of work and it just doesn't feel right after a few weeks(nearly every job for me), then it is very difficult to motivate yourself.  I for one have seen glimpses of a player, but if your head isn't right for whatever reason, then it is better he departs for pastures new.  I think Soumaré could become a very good player, but he is likely to be one of those wasted talents, although I hope it doesn't end up like that.

[The_77]

29 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

When you're coming in at that price and from the Ligue 1 winners, more is expected of you, fast.

 

Not the player's fault, but clubs can't wait forever. Ndidi settled in immediately. Fofana settled in immediately. Ricardo had a shaky 4-5 games then became phenomenal. Castagne hit the ground running immediately with a goal on his debut. Soyuncu did take time, but back then we were a club who's expectations were mid-table to maybe getting into Europe. Now we are a club that expects Europe every year and to be challenging for cups. The quality barometer has increased massively!

 

KDH started the season behind Soumare in the pecking order. Imagine if he had been in the team from day one? Would our league position have improved? I think the answer is yes.

 

Players from abroad need time to settle, but can't be a waste of space either. Daka for me is a good example of what I'd expect from a young foreign signing. Largely inconsistent but made a real impact multiple times and looks like a player that will be here for a while. Soumare had some nice touches but plays in slow motion compared to Dewsbury-Hall, who cost us nothing and outperformed him in every metric.

 

Soumare will probably do well in France when he returns, just as Iborra did well at Villareal after leaving Leicester, and Kramaric when he went to Hoffenheim. Sometimes a player and club don't work out, even if the player is a good one. 

Sure, I don’t think anyone here thinks his first season wasn’t a disappointment. I’m just saying he’s entitled to some patience. I seem to remember Ricardo taking a little a bit longer to get up to speed with the physical requirements on the defensive side of the ball, for example.
 

Nobody batted an eye at Soumare’s transfer fee, which was much lower than a player like Ayoze’s, who’s still here and has been given every chance possible to succeed. 
 

But, hey, if he wants to go or if there’s some kind of disagreement behind the scenes, then all of the above is moot.  Sometimes it’s better to cut your losses early rather than wind up with another Benkovic situation.

[Lambert09]

Its very infuriating that we could save a lot of fuss in the transfer market if we just reintegrated Praet to the squad. He can do everything Youri can imo and we will be paying more money and probably not signing someone of a higher quality. 

 

Too bad the bridge between rodgers and him looks burnt..... as well as the players he threw shade at (Maddison) 

[Viva]

30 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Vardy and Marhez weren't instant regulars. Arguably players, particularly from abroad need two seasons. 

 

Chelsea were patient after one poor first season with Drogba, but must lament players like Salah and DeBreuyne!

Soumare has looked as bad a player as I’ve seen here for quite a while. You can’t just always give players an extra year especially when money is tight.

If he goes onto great things, then good for him. I’d still happily cut our losses and let him go. 

[splinterdream]

Do you think his off field troubles were that he hates it here, always looked miserable as hell

[An Sionnach]

6 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

Its very infuriating that we could save a lot of fuss in the transfer market if we just reintegrated Praet to the squad. He can do everything Youri can imo and we will be paying more money and probably not signing someone of a higher quality. 

 

Too bad the bridge between rodgers and him looks burnt..... as well as the players he threw shade at (Maddison) 

To me the problem is Praet fits perfectly in a diamond set up and that means dual strikers and full backs who are prepared to put in a high mileage. 90% on here think a lone striker is the way to go even though Daka, Iheanacho, Perez, Barnes and these days even Vardy are not ideal in that formation.

[sacreblueits442]

9 minutes ago, Viva said:

Soumare has looked as bad a player as I’ve seen here for quite a while. You can’t just always give players an extra year especially when money is tight.

If he goes onto great things, then good for him. I’d still happily cut our losses and let him go. 

...whatever has been going on behind the scenes we will perhaps never know!!!

His quality is there and it is not down to just the pace of the Premier League, why we have not seen his better performances.

[Grebfromgrebland]

Perez was good value seeing as he was a mainstay in 2 top 5 finishes and some of the best football we've ever seen played by the club.

 

Sure it might be time for him to move on but let's not overlook his 2 successful seasons here.

[Lambert09]

16 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

To me the problem is Praet fits perfectly in a diamond set up and that means dual strikers and full backs who are prepared to put in a high mileage. 90% on here think a lone striker is the way to go even though Daka, Iheanacho, Perez, Barnes and these days even Vardy are not ideal in that formation.

but i’m yet to see why he can’t just play the youri role. He has all the attributes that we need. Good ball retention, an eye for a pass… he’s even quicker than him. 

 

We will be signing someone of the same profile it’s just frustrating when we already have that person on the books 

[An Sionnach]

5 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

but i’m yet to see why he can’t just play the youri role. He has all the attributes that we need. Good ball retention, an eye for a pass… he’s even quicker than him. 

 

We will be signing someone of the same profile it’s just frustrating when we already have that person on the books 

He is a great worker Dennis , similar to KDH always ready to link the play , tackles well and has good enough feet to beat a man , what he doesn't have is Youri's vision and ability to make the killer pass.

[Lambert09]

6 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

He is a great worker Dennis , similar to KDH always ready to link the play , tackles well and has good enough feet to beat a man , what he doesn't have is Youri's vision and ability to make the killer pass.

hmm i’d disagree with that last bit. Even from the glimpses we saw from him he showed what he can do. i think it was against brentford in the fa cup that he drilled the most perfect pass i’ve ever seen

 

of course he’s not on youris level but definitely a suitable (known) replacement 

Edited 25 May 2022 by Lambert09

[Ric Flair]

13 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Perez was good value seeing as he was a mainstay in 2 top 5 finishes and some of the best football we've ever seen played by the club.

 

Sure it might be time for him to move on but let's not overlook his 2 successful seasons here.

I think you're over egging the mainstay for 2 seasons. He was for the 1st year but in 2020/21, he only started about a 3rd of our league games I think? Rodgers binned him off and challenged him to work his way back in and he's never really done so.

[Shane]

4 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

Never really given a chance in his natural position. It would be a shame to see him leave as he is quite clearly talented. 

Soumare’s natural position is playing next to a DM, similar to Tielemans role. Like you say, he hasn’t been given a chance to play there and has been playing out of position, so no wonder he has performed poorly. 

 

According to fbref stats for the 2020/21 season, he ranked highly in the following:

 

- Progressive passing distance

- Passes attempted (medium & long)

- Passes into the final third 

- Progressive passes

- Interceptions

- Successful dribbles 

- Ball carries

- Total carrying distance

- Progressive carrying distance

- Carries into the final third 

 

Soumare is a pre-assist player, which is what the stats point towards. He won’t get goals/assists like Tielemans. But he’s still a progressive player and can provide for our attack (hopefully one which includes a new right winger). 

I’m not saying he should be a starter and replace Tielemans. But I think he can provide competition for that position and is worth keeping. 

 

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Shane said:

Soumare’s natural position is playing next to a DM, similar to Tielemans role. Like you say, he hasn’t been given a chance to play there and has been playing out of position, so no wonder he has performed poorly. 

 

According to fbref stats for the 2020/21 season, he ranked highly in the following:

 

- Progressive passing distance

- Passes attempted (medium & long)

- Passes into the final third 

- Progressive passes

- Interceptions

- Successful dribbles 

- Ball carries

- Total carrying distance

- Progressive carrying distance

- Carries into the final third 

 

Soumare is a pre-assist player, which is what the stats point towards. He won’t get goals/assists like Tielemans. But he’s still a progressive player and can provide for our attack (hopefully one which includes a new right winger). 

I’m not saying he should be a starter and replace Tielemans. But I think he can provide competition for that position and is worth keeping. 

 

The biggest problem is that whatever he was good at in the past, he's come in here and shown a complete inability to track runners which is suicide when playing the system we play, there's no getting away from it and it was aggravated by not having an aggressive and active defender in Fofana too.