The "do they mean us?" thread pt 4

[ThumbsUp]

14 hours ago, worth_the_wait said:

You've (possibly inadvertently) hit the nail on the head here.

 

"Watch with interest ... the way we slowly push and build up" is absolutely fine, in the way I might appreciate a chess match ... slowly tricking the opponent into a checkmate.   It's the sort of situation where you sit back in your chair, nod in gentle appreciation at the fine skills you are witnessing.

 

It may be interesting.  But it's not exciting.   It doesn't have enough tempo and general umph to get you leaping out of your seat or shouting encouragement.   Which is one of the reasons why the atmosphere over the last 3 seasons has fallen off a cliff.   And if it wasn't for the efforts of Union FS, would be absolutely dire.

 

Just for clarity though, I'm not knocking Enzo.   It's the latest modern fashion on how football should be played.   It it what it is, and I'll support the team unreservedly.

 

What about Atletico Madrid? Terrible negative football and yet they have an incredible atmosphere. It's an English/Leicester thing.

[davieG]

16 hours ago, demon_dog said:

Like many, up until recently I was saying how much I hated the way we play, however conceding that it was highly effective. To me though it seems that in the last 3-4 games we have slightly modified our style of play. I now watch with interest seeing our build play, the way we slowly push and build up to creating our chances. Some of our build up play has been sublime.

I am an old "duffer" who's followed City over 50+ years. Have never booed them even when we were awful under Pleat or Taylor.

Must admit I am now into Enzo ball and enjoying games once again.

 

Or they are just getting better and more confident to play attacking balls

[worth_the_wait]

1 hour ago, ThumbsUp said:

What about Atletico Madrid? Terrible negative football and yet they have an incredible atmosphere. It's an English/Leicester thing.

Maybe they don't think it's "terrible negative football"?
Maybe they find defensive football, following by lightening quick counter attacks exciting?
Maybe something else? 

Who knows?   Who cares?   Can't say I'm really too concerned about every other club in the world ...

 

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/leicester-city-notebook-enzo-maresca-9112589

 

Uefa financial report shows gives context over relegation

Uefa released their annual financial report last week and doesn’t make great reading regarding City’s relegation last May. Part of the report lists the 20 clubs who spent most on wages around Europe and City’s inclusion in the list puts into context just how badly they messed up to end up going down to the Championship.

It should be noted first that the list isn’t entirely accurate as City are yet to release their own financial statement from last season. That’s due next month. So the figure used in the Uefa report is City’s wage bill from the 2021-22 season, the year before. It’s expected that up-to-date numbers will show City’s wage bill has reduced slightly.

However, with €215m paid to players and staff across the whole club in 21-22, that would put their wage bill 16th in Europe for 22-23. When City’s latest finances are released, they will only fall out of the top 20 if they have reduced their wage bill by at least €27m.

Wage expenditure is often an accurate indicator of where a team will finish and in the chart, but City are the eighth highest spenders in the Premier League, behind the so-called big six and Aston Villa. A slight reduction will take them below Newcastle too, but they would still be ninth in the Premier League, nowhere near the 18th place they eventually finished.

A rundown of the clubs who sit above City shows the kind of level they would perhaps have expected to achieve last season. From first to 15th, the list reads: Barcelona, PSG, Manchester City, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Manchester United, Tottenham, Juventus, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Inter Milan, Aston Villa.

[KingsX]

2 hours ago, davieG said:

Part of the report lists the 20 clubs who spent most on wages around Europe and City’s inclusion in the list puts into context just how badly they messed up to end up going down to the Championship.

Wage expenditure is often an accurate indicator of where a team will finish and in the chart, but City are the eighth highest spenders in the Premier League. nowhere near the 18th place they eventually finished.

 

[Golden Fox]

Do they mean us?

 

 

I'm trying to think of what they would have used to model Kane sitting on a bench...

 

[AKCJ]

Connor Coady will be on Gary Lineker's podcast. Coming out Friday.

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/leicester-city-season-hinges-reputation-9122614

 

Leicester City season hinges on reputation they must shake off after Leeds comeback fuels flames
Leicester City produced the performance in a big game that everybody had been asking for but defeat means the gap has closed and their task for the run-in has changed

ByJordan Blackwell
14:09, 24 FEB 2024

This was the performance in a big game that everybody had been asking for. And yet it’s yielded no points.

It was as tough an assignment for Leicester City as is possible in the Championship. Leeds arrived into the game brimming with confidence after eight straight wins, a run in which they had conceded just once. They were undefeated at home all season. Their fans were pumped up to the max. City were entering a cauldron.

Plus, Leeds’ all-action, transitional style is in direct contrast to City’s. It feels like it’s Kryptonite for a side playing the way Enzo Maresca’s team do. It was never going to get harder than this.

 

Yet City were brilliant. They started excellently, playing their way but also showing Leeds they were up for the fight. After 15 minutes, they had a goal to show for the openings they had created and they had reduced Elland Road to a hush.

Leeds had a couple of opportunities spurned by Wilfried Gnonto and Crysencio Summerville shortly afterwards, but as the hosts then built pressure over the remainder of the first half, City point-blank refused to let them enter their penalty area. Resilience and strength was shown in abundance.

Then came the second half and the flurry of chances. City ripped through Leeds when they attacked. There were lovely passing moves and incisive counters. It was thrilling to watch. If City had been 4-0 ahead going into the final 15 minutes, nobody could have called them fortunate.

The midfield trio in particular were excellent. They were stronger, more agile, and connected play better than their Leeds’ counterparts. In their Maresca-branded “huge, huge, huge game”, Leeds were bottling it. They kept giving the ball to City and couldn’t sustain any attacks.

 

Then came the final 10 minutes. There was no spell of sustained pressure before Connor Roberts’ equaliser. It came out of the blue. But once it went in, the crowd went up, momentum swung drastically in Leeds’ favour, and City melted. They were camped in and conceded twice more. They couldn’t cope. Even before the final whistle, Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall looked around with his hands on his head, scarcely believing how the game had played out.

Maresca said the hosts were “mentally better” in the final 10 minutes and while he suggested it was easy for Leeds, with their fans behind them, to feel on top in that moment, it was still a brave admission from the City boss, and one that gets to the heart of the task they now face. The season is now a test of mental strength.

 

City are still in pole position. At the start of the season, nobody would have turned down a six-point lead with 12 games to go. However, if Ipswich win on Saturday, the gap to third will have fallen from 14 points to six in eight days. It will be the smallest the cushion has been in more than five months.

 

That brings pressure. And it's not yet known how this team copes with that. Fans may point to the late collapses in 2020 and 2021, when City spent all of the season in the top four only to miss out on the Champions League in the final fortnight of the campaign, but this is a different squad with a different manager. They don’t need to be tarred with that brush yet.

But there have been a few incidents of late goals conceded over the past few months, and that won’t help supporter confidence. It would have been a real boost if, after Roberts’ equaliser, City had shown steel, composed themselves, and seen out a draw. But that Leeds smothered them only adds to some fans’ feeling that City don’t have the required psychological strength to get over the line.

Then again, they just went into one of their toughest games of the season and produced one of their best showings of the season. They didn’t wilt at the deafening pre-match noise. Had the linesman correctly given Patson Daka’s goal, all of this may be irrelevant.

But that doesn’t change what the run-in’s about. The first three-quarters of the season have shown that City have the ability and tactical idea to get promoted. But you need more than that in the final couple of months.

And now the gap has closed, City’s mental toughness really will be put to the test. After keeping their rivals at arm’s length for most of the campaign, they can now feel them breathing down their neck. Now’s the time to show they have the strength of mind to get the job done and show that it’s wrong to place them in the same bracket as the team that twice missed out on the Champions League.

[Paninistickers]

11 minutes ago, davieG said:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/leicester-city-season-hinges-reputation-9122614

 

Leicester City season hinges on reputation they must shake off after Leeds comeback fuels flames
Leicester City produced the performance in a big game that everybody had been asking for but defeat means the gap has closed and their task for the run-in has changed

ByJordan Blackwell
14:09, 24 FEB 2024

This was the performance in a big game that everybody had been asking for. And yet it’s yielded no points.

It was as tough an assignment for Leicester City as is possible in the Championship. Leeds arrived into the game brimming with confidence after eight straight wins, a run in which they had conceded just once. They were undefeated at home all season. Their fans were pumped up to the max. City were entering a cauldron.

Plus, Leeds’ all-action, transitional style is in direct contrast to City’s. It feels like it’s Kryptonite for a side playing the way Enzo Maresca’s team do. It was never going to get harder than this.

 

Yet City were brilliant. They started excellently, playing their way but also showing Leeds they were up for the fight. After 15 minutes, they had a goal to show for the openings they had created and they had reduced Elland Road to a hush.

Leeds had a couple of opportunities spurned by Wilfried Gnonto and Crysencio Summerville shortly afterwards, but as the hosts then built pressure over the remainder of the first half, City point-blank refused to let them enter their penalty area. Resilience and strength was shown in abundance.

Then came the second half and the flurry of chances. City ripped through Leeds when they attacked. There were lovely passing moves and incisive counters. It was thrilling to watch. If City had been 4-0 ahead going into the final 15 minutes, nobody could have called them fortunate.

The midfield trio in particular were excellent. They were stronger, more agile, and connected play better than their Leeds’ counterparts. In their Maresca-branded “huge, huge, huge game”, Leeds were bottling it. They kept giving the ball to City and couldn’t sustain any attacks.

 

Then came the final 10 minutes. There was no spell of sustained pressure before Connor Roberts’ equaliser. It came out of the blue. But once it went in, the crowd went up, momentum swung drastically in Leeds’ favour, and City melted. They were camped in and conceded twice more. They couldn’t cope. Even before the final whistle, Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall looked around with his hands on his head, scarcely believing how the game had played out.

Maresca said the hosts were “mentally better” in the final 10 minutes and while he suggested it was easy for Leeds, with their fans behind them, to feel on top in that moment, it was still a brave admission from the City boss, and one that gets to the heart of the task they now face. The season is now a test of mental strength.

 

City are still in pole position. At the start of the season, nobody would have turned down a six-point lead with 12 games to go. However, if Ipswich win on Saturday, the gap to third will have fallen from 14 points to six in eight days. It will be the smallest the cushion has been in more than five months.

 

That brings pressure. And it's not yet known how this team copes with that. Fans may point to the late collapses in 2020 and 2021, when City spent all of the season in the top four only to miss out on the Champions League in the final fortnight of the campaign, but this is a different squad with a different manager. They don’t need to be tarred with that brush yet.

But there have been a few incidents of late goals conceded over the past few months, and that won’t help supporter confidence. It would have been a real boost if, after Roberts’ equaliser, City had shown steel, composed themselves, and seen out a draw. But that Leeds smothered them only adds to some fans’ feeling that City don’t have the required psychological strength to get over the line.

Then again, they just went into one of their toughest games of the season and produced one of their best showings of the season. They didn’t wilt at the deafening pre-match noise. Had the linesman correctly given Patson Daka’s goal, all of this may be irrelevant.

But that doesn’t change what the run-in’s about. The first three-quarters of the season have shown that City have the ability and tactical idea to get promoted. But you need more than that in the final couple of months.

And now the gap has closed, City’s mental toughness really will be put to the test. After keeping their rivals at arm’s length for most of the campaign, they can now feel them breathing down their neck. Now’s the time to show they have the strength of mind to get the job done and show that it’s wrong to place them in the same bracket as the team that twice missed out on the Champions League.

Excellent report from Jordan Blackwell 

[Lionator]

Not getting promoted this season would be far more catastrophic than not qualifying for the champions league. We’d be looking at a mass exodus over the summer and a complete rebuild. We would become just another championship team again pretty quickly. 

[Wolfox]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

Excellent report from Jordan Blackwell 

Agreed…. Nice to see some proper journalism

 

A well judged and well articulated report 

[KingsX]

4 hours ago, Lionator said:

Not getting promoted this season would be far more catastrophic than not qualifying for the champions league. We’d be looking at a mass exodus over the summer and a complete rebuild. We would become just another championship team again pretty quickly. 

 

Absolutely.  And in 2024 "just another championship team" means "feeder club for even the smallest PL teams".  Just look at Bristol City and Bournemouth.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

5 hours ago, Lionator said:

Not getting promoted this season would be far more catastrophic than not qualifying for the champions league. We’d be looking at a mass exodus over the summer and a complete rebuild. We would become just another championship team again pretty quickly. 

Yep. Would be almost terminal for us and I don't think a lot of people realise. 

[Lionator]

11 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Yep. Would be almost terminal for us and I don't think a lot of people realise. 

This is why Southampton fans are in complete meltdown. They’re finished in they don’t go up. 

[Lillehamring]

12 hours ago, Lionator said:

Not getting promoted this season would be far more catastrophic than not qualifying for the champions league. We’d be looking at a mass exodus over the summer and a complete rebuild. We would become just another championship team again pretty quickly. 

Not that i want this to happen, but there are some benefits to this outcome - we'd be able to lose the last of the overpaid players and have a fairly clean slate to go out and buy cheap young promising players that are more natural playing the type of football enzo wants to play.

 

The only perhaps 'too expensive players' we'd be left with would be those bought this summer, who were bought to play in enzo's system.

 

It would not be good, but never catastrophic.  People were saying relegation was catastrophic and it's actually been, on the whole, rather enjoyable.

[CosbehFox]

34 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Not that i want this to happen, but there are some benefits to this outcome - we'd be able to lose the last of the overpaid players and have a fairly clean slate to go out and buy cheap young promising players that are more natural playing the type of football enzo wants to play.

 

The only perhaps 'too expensive players' we'd be left with would be those bought this summer, who were bought to play in enzo's system.

 

It would not be good, but never catastrophic.  People were saying relegation was catastrophic and it's actually been, on the whole, rather enjoyable.

If we don’t go up, I’d say there’s an extremely high chance we suffer financial and points penalties for the next two seasons regardless of division (eg we got promoted next season) 
 

FFP PSR’s rules are utterly suffocating and id say even harsher in the Championship than the PL.  

[Aus Fox]

Okay, which one of you lot is this?

[Chocolate Teapot]

On 25/02/2024 at 23:09, CosbehFox said:

If we don’t go up, I’d say there’s an extremely high chance we suffer financial and points penalties for the next two seasons regardless of division (eg we got promoted next season) 
 

FFP PSR’s rules are utterly suffocating and id say even harsher in the Championship than the PL.  

Like @Sol thewall Bamba said I don't think people realise how precarious the position is.

 

On the positive it may well expose how badly we are run and send a few people packing but at the same time it'd be a long long road back.

Edited 27 February by Chocolate Teapot

[Daggers]

On 25/02/2024 at 14:55, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Yep. Would be almost terminal for us and I don't think a lot of people realise. 

…And then we get our actual club back - win win. 

[fuchsntf]

On 25/02/2024 at 10:24, davieG said:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/leicester-city-season-hinges-reputation-9122614

 

Leicester City season hinges on reputation they must shake off after Leeds comeback fuels flames
Leicester City produced the performance in a big game that everybody had been asking for but defeat means the gap has closed and their task for the run-in has changed

ByJordan Blackwell
14:09, 24 FEB 2024

This was the performance in a big game that everybody had been asking for. And yet it’s yielded no points.

It was as tough an assignment for Leicester City as is possible in the Championship. Leeds arrived into the game brimming with confidence after eight straight wins, a run in which they had conceded just once. They were undefeated at home all season. Their fans were pumped up to the max. City were entering a cauldron.

Plus, Leeds’ all-action, transitional style is in direct contrast to City’s. It feels like it’s Kryptonite for a side playing the way Enzo Maresca’s team do. It was never going to get harder than this.

 

Yet City were brilliant. They started excellently, playing their way but also showing Leeds they were up for the fight. After 15 minutes, they had a goal to show for the openings they had created and they had reduced Elland Road to a hush.

Leeds had a couple of opportunities spurned by Wilfried Gnonto and Crysencio Summerville shortly afterwards, but as the hosts then built pressure over the remainder of the first half, City point-blank refused to let them enter their penalty area. Resilience and strength was shown in abundance.

Then came the second half and the flurry of chances. City ripped through Leeds when they attacked. There were lovely passing moves and incisive counters. It was thrilling to watch. If City had been 4-0 ahead going into the final 15 minutes, nobody could have called them fortunate.

The midfield trio in particular were excellent. They were stronger, more agile, and connected play better than their Leeds’ counterparts. In their Maresca-branded “huge, huge, huge game”, Leeds were bottling it. They kept giving the ball to City and couldn’t sustain any attacks.

 

Then came the final 10 minutes. There was no spell of sustained pressure before Connor Roberts’ equaliser. It came out of the blue. But once it went in, the crowd went up, momentum swung drastically in Leeds’ favour, and City melted. They were camped in and conceded twice more. They couldn’t cope. Even before the final whistle, Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall looked around with his hands on his head, scarcely believing how the game had played out.

Maresca said the hosts were “mentally better” in the final 10 minutes and while he suggested it was easy for Leeds, with their fans behind them, to feel on top in that moment, it was still a brave admission from the City boss, and one that gets to the heart of the task they now face. The season is now a test of mental strength.

 

City are still in pole position. At the start of the season, nobody would have turned down a six-point lead with 12 games to go. However, if Ipswich win on Saturday, the gap to third will have fallen from 14 points to six in eight days. It will be the smallest the cushion has been in more than five months.

 

That brings pressure. And it's not yet known how this team copes with that. Fans may point to the late collapses in 2020 and 2021, when City spent all of the season in the top four only to miss out on the Champions League in the final fortnight of the campaign, but this is a different squad with a different manager. They don’t need to be tarred with that brush yet.

But there have been a few incidents of late goals conceded over the past few months, and that won’t help supporter confidence. It would have been a real boost if, after Roberts’ equaliser, City had shown steel, composed themselves, and seen out a draw. But that Leeds smothered them only adds to some fans’ feeling that City don’t have the required psychological strength to get over the line.

Then again, they just went into one of their toughest games of the season and produced one of their best showings of the season. They didn’t wilt at the deafening pre-match noise. Had the linesman correctly given Patson Daka’s goal, all of this may be irrelevant.

But that doesn’t change what the run-in’s about. The first three-quarters of the season have shown that City have the ability and tactical idea to get promoted. But you need more than that in the final couple of months.

And now the gap has closed, City’s mental toughness really will be put to the test. After keeping their rivals at arm’s length for most of the campaign, they can now feel them breathing down their neck. Now’s the time to show they have the strength of mind to get the job done and show that it’s wrong to place them in the same bracket as the team that twice missed out on the Champions League.

Yehhh,but we are Leicester,we just don’t do easy for our fans,we always have to

give our flat cap fans,and the chavs something to worry about..
If we were now 27 pts in front,someone would find a traitorous conspiracy theory

we were about to implode and not worthy enough..

We just don’t have the Leeds DNA of being self serving braggarts,who would be lost

if they were not constructing and in the middle of the bragging rights..

We have that “ hooollld on Gland” that prevents us believing everything will go smooth..Thankfully this season we have a sort of manager who keeps to the simple phsycologie….”Football is football…We go again”

Now just getting  as famous has Dilly ding dilly dong

[davieG]

8 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

If we were now 27 pts in front,

I'd still not be confident or optimistic.

[davieG]

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/the-stadium-was-immaculate-do-people-rate-leicester-citys-stadium-the-king-power/#people-rsquo-s-thoughts-on-leicester-city-rsquo-s-king-power-stadium

 

"The stadium was immaculate" - Do people rate Leicester City's stadium the King Power?

[Lillehamring]

On 26/02/2024 at 00:09, CosbehFox said:

If we don’t go up, I’d say there’s an extremely high chance we suffer financial and points penalties for the next two seasons regardless of division (eg we got promoted next season) 
 

FFP PSR’s rules are utterly suffocating and id say even harsher in the Championship than the PL.  

I'm no expert but i feel like we'll only have a few players left under contract that would be on 'significant' salaries, most of the high paid lot (nacho, vardy, vestergaard et al.) are all out of contract.  I'm sure daka could be sold, maybe even coady.  I can't imagine mavididi is on loads, or hermansen.  Worst case is we have to sell them, but i'm sure there's be a few buyers for  hermansen and winks at the very least after the season they've had.

 

There's no way they'd not have prepared for us not going up when they started the season, Maresca was too much of an unknown and the competition for promotion spots was always likely to be tough.

 

I'm not, therefore, what you are basing the 'extremely high chance' on?

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I'm no expert but i feel like we'll only have a few players left under contract that would be on 'significant' salaries, most of the high paid lot (nacho, vardy, vestergaard et al.) are all out of contract.  I'm sure daka could be sold, maybe even coady.  I can't imagine mavididi is on loads, or hermansen.  Worst case is we have to sell them, but i'm sure there's be a few buyers for  hermansen and winks at the very least after the season they've had.

 

There's no way they'd not have prepared for us not going up when they started the season, Maresca was too much of an unknown and the competition for promotion spots was always likely to be tough.

 

I'm not, therefore, what you are basing the 'extremely high chance' on?

Because FFP PSR works on a three year cycle - the damage is already done so speak because you carrying last season's financial errors now for additional two years. The losses on the wage bill occurring need to translate at the same rate of the drop in FFP PSR for the Championship but you still have the season previous causing. 

 

PL is £105m over three years whilst Championship is £39m over three years. 

 

If we don't go up, we have a three year window for two seasons at least where we have a PSR FFP allowance of £13m+£13m+£35m = £61m - but last season's finances are eye watering losses on the FFP PSR scale. You can just about get away with it if the PSR FFP allowance is two lots of PL + one season of EFL - £83m. 

 

But if we were to carry a window of 2 EFL+1 PL - I suspect you get banged by the EFL on their rules and then even banged by the PL on their rules upon your return. The wage bill will relax but we will suffer badly in PSR assessment because the amortisation value in players such as Souttar, Kristansen, Soumare - who carrying high transfer fees relative to their ability. 

 

If we are at the position, we can't make a very small monetary signing in January - it's pretty obvious that the club believe we are tight as it stands for this season (and that's with 2x PL PSR FFP allowances) - let alone future seasons. 

Edited 27 February by CosbehFox

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

Because FFP PSR works on a three year cycle - the damage is already done so speak because you carrying last season's financial errors now for additional two years. The losses on the wage bill occurring need to translate at the same rate of the drop in FFP PSR for the Championship but you still have the season previous causing. 

 

PL is £105m over three years whilst Championship is £39m over three years. 

 

If we don't go up, we have a three year window for two seasons at least where we have a PSR FFP allowance of £13m+£13m+£35m = £61m - but last season's finances are eye watering losses on the FFP PSR scale. You can just about get away with it if the PSR FFP allowance is two lots of PL + one season of EFL - £83m. 

 

But if we were to carry a window of 2 EFL+1 PL - I suspect you get banged by the EFL on their rules and then even banged by the PL on their rules upon your return. The wage bill will relax but we will suffer badly in PSR assessment because the amortisation value in players such as Souttar, Kristansen, Soumare - who carrying high transfer fees relative to their ability. 

 

If we are at the position, we can't make a very small monetary signing in January - it's pretty obvious that the club believe we are tight as it stands for this season (and that's with 2x PL PSR FFP allowances) - let alone future seasons. 

Whilst i appreciate you've looked into this deeper than me, i'm afraid i'll still have to trust that the club have a plan for us not going up - given that the odds on an immediate return with a totally untested manager must have been pretty high.  If an immediate return was an absolute necessity, surely they'd have played (theoretically) safer by going for someone like farke or scott parker?

 

Also, since summer of 2022 they've been obsessively cautious about FFP, why would they suddenly have gambled everything on having to go straight back up, after being so parsimonious in 2022 and the recent transfer window?

 

I'm sure they're living on the edge and that if we don't go up, then next season we could be right back to the start, that we may even end up down for a few years.  But predicting economic doom seems a little excessive.