Stefano Sensi

[foxinsocks]

On 02/02/2024 at 19:35, lcfc_forever said:

Here is a summary of the Athletic article:

• Inter were reluctant to do a deal which meant they got no money when Sensi became a free agent, and looked into a contract extension with a sale to protect their interest (that was reported in the Italian media). We couldn't afford a payment due to FFP so couldn't just buy him. 
• Contract extension seemed to be the solution arrived at but meant the deal was more complicated
• We pushed to sign him as Maresca was keen, but we were being particularly careful to avoid FFP issues
• The deal then got bogged down with the lawyers, Inter took longer than expected but we gave them extra time
• Problem then was when we then got the term sheet, Leicester's document in response was longer due to EFL requirements 
• Their lawyers were surprised by the length of it and then had amendments but there wasn't enough time for Leicester's lawyers to review them 

Sounds like a mess but issues on both sides. Not a Rudkin fan by any means - he should have gone for what happened the previous season - but there was more to this. 

 

The big problem I think was our expectations were heightened by the likes of Romano when it's clear there wasn't a deal in place, and it took the deadline day for both parties to give ground and try to get this over the line. But then the legal issues scuppered it. 

Sounds complex... but why not do this a week ago?

[FoxesWalk]

On 02/02/2024 at 19:35, lcfc_forever said:

Here is a summary of the Athletic article:

• Inter were reluctant to do a deal which meant they got no money when Sensi became a free agent, and looked into a contract extension with a sale to protect their interest (that was reported in the Italian media). We couldn't afford a payment due to FFP so couldn't just buy him. 
• Contract extension seemed to be the solution arrived at but meant the deal was more complicated
• We pushed to sign him as Maresca was keen, but we were being particularly careful to avoid FFP issues
• The deal then got bogged down with the lawyers, Inter took longer than expected but we gave them extra time
• Problem then was when we then got the term sheet, Leicester's document in response was longer due to EFL requirements 
• Their lawyers were surprised by the length of it and then had amendments but there wasn't enough time for Leicester's lawyers to review them 

Sounds like a mess but issues on both sides. Not a Rudkin fan by any means - he should have gone for what happened the previous season - but there was more to this. 

 

The big problem I think was our expectations were heightened by the likes of Romano when it's clear there wasn't a deal in place, and it took the deadline day for both parties to give ground and try to get this over the line. But then the legal issues scuppered it. 

Thanks, makes sense. Though I would question, given the complexity, why it was left so late in the window given we knew we wanted him. 

[lcfc_forever]

2 hours ago, FoxesWalk said:

Thanks, makes sense. Though I would question, given the complexity, why it was left so late in the window given we knew we wanted him. 

No worries. Inter wanted a fee upfront that we couldn’t afford due to FFP, because they had no guarantee of payment once he became a free agent. This is corroborated by reports in the Italian press. And they didn’t want to have to do a contract extension.
 

But when it was clear all options had been exhausted (ie we weren’t able to sell anyone), that’s what was pursued on deadline day but the deal was more complex. 

[cruzFOX]

On 01/02/2024 at 15:06, Mickyblueeyes said:

3

can’t someone from the club just put out a press release and explain it in laymans terms? Fans aren’t stupid just tell us - we can handle it. They may feel like they are not obligated but radio silence just fuels rumors  and negativity. 
 

IMO as long as Enzo has been consulted and not left in the dark than I’m over this debacle. The club have to keep him sweet or he’s gonna go next season. His threat to quit if we don’t believe in him is straight outta the Pep handbook at man city. Its dramatic but it works!

[Qwerty]

1 hour ago, cruzFOX said:

can’t someone from the club just put out a press release and explain it in laymans terms? Fans aren’t stupid just tell us - we can handle it. They may feel like they are not obligated but radio silence just fuels rumors  and negativity. 
 

IMO as long as Enzo has been consulted and not left in the dark than I’m over this debacle. The club have to keep him sweet or he’s gonna go next season. His threat to quit if we don’t believe in him is straight outta the Pep handbook at man city. Its dramatic but it works!

Pep has been moaning and grumbling ever since he arrived but he’s still there nearly 8 years later.  I don’t understand this worry about Enzo quitting.  He’s never managed in the premier league before, so I wouldn’t imagine he’d be a big target for Prem clubs.  So far his main achievement is to be top of the championship with a team that has a significant number of PL standard players.  I’m not saying he shouldn’t take credit for our position - of course he should - but I don’t think it necessarily makes him a massively desirable manager in the PL.  If we get promoted and he leaves, then he’s clearly not strong enough for football management.  (Unless he wants to return to Europe, which is obviously a different situation).

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, cruzFOX said:

can’t someone from the club just put out a press release and explain it in laymans terms? Fans aren’t stupid just tell us - we can handle it. They may feel like they are not obligated but radio silence just fuels rumors  and negativity. 
 

IMO as long as Enzo has been consulted and not left in the dark than I’m over this debacle. The club have to keep him sweet or he’s gonna go next season. His threat to quit if we don’t believe in him is straight outta the Pep handbook at man city. Its dramatic but it works!

The club are not obliged to make any statement as they've never said they were ever attempting to sign him. It was all rumour, guesswork on socials and Enzo saying that he liked Sensi whilst acknowledging that a sale had to be made before any incoming. For all we know, Enzo was kept in the loop the whole time and fully understood the club were doing everything possible to get this done. He's not daft. 

 

As frustrating as it is for everyone involved, we must be in a better position with this outcome rather than having a points deduction hanging over us. 

 

I suspect the club (including Rudkin) have done the right thing. 

[lcfc_forever]

22 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The club are not obliged to make any statement as they've never said they were ever attempting to sign him. It was all rumour, guesswork on socials and Enzo saying that he liked Sensi whilst acknowledging that a sale had to be made before any incoming. For all we know, Enzo was kept in the loop the whole time and fully understood the club were doing everything possible to get this done. He's not daft. 

 

As frustrating as it is for everyone involved, we must be in a better position with this outcome rather than having a points deduction hanging over us. 

 

I suspect the club (including Rudkin) have done the right thing. 

Remember the manager kept saying we had to sell before we could buy as well. In hindsight, we should have followed what we said, not the likes of Romano who suggested a deal was pretty much done. 

[MGLCFC]

What is difficult to assimilate is that some of the players who we wanted to shift in August are the same players who are still here now. I just find it difficult to understand that our DofF has known for months who we need to move on, yet we are still scrambling around hours before the deadline trying to make this happen. If he was aware no one was likely to move on, why waste Sensi's time getting him over here. Unfortunately it looks like we are stuck with the likes of Ward et al until their contracts expire.

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, MGLCFC said:

What is difficult to assimilate is that some of the players who we wanted to shift in August are the same players who are still here now. I just find it difficult to understand that our DofF has known for months who we need to move on, yet we are still scrambling around hours before the deadline trying to make this happen. If he was aware no one was likely to move on, why waste Sensi's time getting him over here. Unfortunately it looks like we are stuck with the likes of Ward et al until their contracts expire.

Sensi would've been well aware of the situation when he travelled over believing that he'd be in the right place to sign had the pieces fallen into place. Not that anyone should be concerned about his wasted time. He wasn't forced into spending a nice day out at Seagrave. 

 

There may've been a transfer out on the cards right up to the last minute. Who knows. 

[george55]

i think there were waiting for the out come of drewsbury hall before they signed sensi hence the last minute fell threw ,but i do think hed been a very good signing but theres enought in this squard to get this job done .it proved that sat stoke ere bit poor but theres worser teams than stoke there could easier been 8-2

[ClaphamFox]

16 hours ago, Spudulike said:

Sensi would've been well aware of the situation when he travelled over believing that he'd be in the right place to sign had the pieces fallen into place. Not that anyone should be concerned about his wasted time. He wasn't forced into spending a nice day out at Seagrave. 

 

There may've been a transfer out on the cards right up to the last minute. Who knows. 

Rob Tanner's piece in The Athletic suggests that we were trying to sign Sensi without anybody having to leave - it was just that the terms of that deal were still being batted back and forth between the lawyers late into deadline day and eventually time ran out. 

 

9 minutes ago, george55 said:

i think there were waiting for the out come of drewsbury hall before they signed sensi hence the last minute fell threw ,but i do think hed been a very good signing but theres enought in this squard to get this job done .it proved that sat stoke ere bit poor but theres worser teams than stoke there could easier been 8-2

I don't think so. I don't think we ever intended to sell Dewsbury-Hall. Sensi was targeted because we already needed reinforcements in that part of the pitch, not because we anticipated selling our best player.

[cruzFOX]

So we just simply ran out of time - AGAIN!

[FoxesWalk]

His wife has posted this. Sounds a lot like he will be coming in the summer to me?

[mozartfox]

Rudkin needs to spend a year at Forest learning how to sign players on time. They are experts.

[Itsthejoeker]

5 hours ago, FoxesWalk said:

His wife has posted this. Sounds a lot like he will be coming in the summer to me?

“hey Sensi, want to come have a look because we can’t officially sign you pre-contract? See you in June pal.”

 

sounds like we’ve saved £2.5m and potentially got him in the summer

[MPH]

6 hours ago, FoxesWalk said:

His wife has posted this. Sounds a lot like he will be coming in the summer to me?

 

It could be lost in translation but it sounds like they’d be open to offers from anywhere in the summer.  Hopefully they choose us!

[KFS]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

 

It could be lost in translation but it sounds like they’d be open to offers from anywhere in the summer.  Hopefully they choose us!

Absolutely. Wide open. 

[mozartfox]

13 hours ago, FoxesWalk said:

His wife has posted this. Sounds a lot like he will be coming in the summer to me?

Getherin.  This would be an excellent addition to our WAG Team.  I bet she is a looker too.

[mod hero]

2 hours ago, mozartfox said:

Getherin.  This would be an excellent addition to our WAG Team.  I bet she is a looker too.

Yep

[volpeazzurro]

On 04/02/2024 at 18:59, MGLCFC said:

What is difficult to assimilate is that some of the players who we wanted to shift in August are the same players who are still here now. I just find it difficult to understand that our DofF has known for months who we need to move on, yet we are still scrambling around hours before the deadline trying to make this happen. If he was aware no one was likely to move on, why waste Sensi's time getting him over here. Unfortunately it looks like we are stuck with the likes of Ward et al until their contracts expire.

You still don't get it. Our director of football indeed, more than possibly does know and has done for some time, who we want or need to move on,

BUT!

He can't sell what no-one wants to buy or who doesn't want to go!

It really is that simple. 

 

Sometimes a club aren't prepared to match wages, or perhaps don't even rate the player enough to pay a fee or even want him on a free. From a players angle, why possibly uproot your family to go to somewhere you don't fancy, whether this country or abroad just to play football for possibly less money? No brainer!

 

Ward is just a prime example. Who'd want him, who'd pay him, why would he leave for less money. It's that simple. 

[MGLCFC]

6 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

You still don't get it. Our director of football indeed, more than possibly does know and has done for some time, who we want or need to move on,

BUT!

He can't sell what no-one wants to buy or who doesn't want to go!

It really is that simple. 

 

Sometimes a club aren't prepared to match wages, or perhaps don't even rate the player enough to pay a fee or even want him on a free. From a players angle, why possibly uproot your family to go to somewhere you don't fancy, whether this country or abroad just to play football for possibly less money? No brainer!

 

Ward is just a prime example. Who'd want him, who'd pay him, why would he leave for less money. It's that simple. 

I do get it, what I don't get is why he gave them such ludicrous contracts to mediocre players in the first place. I totally understand that we are stuck with players, but even paying some of their wages to move them on would be no worse than them sat taking their £50 000 a week or whatever doing nothing. What I don't get is the need for your rudeness. It's that simple.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, MGLCFC said:

I do get it, what I don't get is why he gave them such ludicrous contracts to mediocre players in the first place. I totally understand that we are stuck with players, but even paying some of their wages to move them on would be no worse than them sat taking their £50 000 a week or whatever doing nothing. What I don't get is the need for your rudeness. It's that simple.

Because perhaps you're simply repeating the same old regurgitated mantra, it gets boring after a while. 

 

I don't for one minute think Rudkin is absolutely blameless in all this but the facts are the facts and we're stuck with it, the hard core are staying for the blindingly obvious stated reasons. And you would actually pay them to leave? Does that not set a dangerous precedent? For how many? How much would you pay out? What are the ramifications for FFP? What are the consequences? 

 

As for your comment about initial contracts you may well have a point but even then, surely there's more than one individual to blame other than the same old pantomime villain.

 

Remember the brothers grim, Rodgers and Congerton? They're the one's that wanted these individuals and no doubt Top sanctioned them. Let's not forget those three for one minute.  There's then the player's agents to deal with and let's face it, Leicester isn't London or Manchester is it. We're not the most attractive proposition albeit we might think we are. There are shades of Middlesbrough and Newcastle of the past whereupon a bit more of an inducement may have to be paid just to get them here. We're a stepping stone at best to most.

 

If Rodgers was demanding certain players perhaps the pressure was on just to get the deal done? 

 

Think prior to Rodgers, and with the exception of the odd blip like Silva and Slimani, there have probably been dozens of deals under different managers and scouting teams that have gone swimmingly well and the club has made a fortune out of them! Same bloke as DofF. 

 

Is he faultless? Absolutely not. Is he to blame for everything? Absolutely not also. Is he disproportionately called out compared to others? I would suggest overwhelmingly so.

 

What about all this summers signings and loans deals, were they good business? I would say so. Same bloke. Perhaps just sometimes he's influenced by other circumstances and other people. 

 

 

Edited 8 February by volpeazzurro

[MGLCFC]

The bottom line is, as DofF the buck stops with him, just like in any profession. Quite often when CEO's resign it is not their errors that cause the resignation but the actions of those advising or working at a lower level. Take credit when things go well, but accept fault when things don't. It's not the same mantra at all, it's about repeated failings over several January windows. As you pointed out, he has done some really good deals, particularly with Summer recruitment and should receive credit for these, but likewise his inability to find a solution to moving players on over several windows is of his making, because of the ludicrous fees and  extortionate wages he offered, IMO. If we are in such a poor financial state either he's being advised poorly or ignoring that advice. Whilst it's probably none of my business to understand why the club appears to be struggling financially, the lack of transparency is concerning as a someone who is supporting the club in a small financial way.

[Babylon]

40 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Because perhaps you're simply repeating the same old regurgitated mantra, it gets boring after a while. 

 

I don't for one minute think Rudkin is absolutely blameless in all this but the facts are the facts and we're stuck with it, the hard core are staying for the blindingly obvious stated reasons. And you would actually pay them to leave? Does that not set a dangerous precedent? For how many? How much would you pay out? What are the ramifications for FFP? What are the consequences? 

 

As for your comment about initial contracts you may well have a point but even then, surely there's more than one individual to blame other than the same old pantomime villain.

 

Remember the brothers grim, Rodgers and Congerton? They're the one's that wanted these individuals and no doubt Top sanctioned them. Let's not forget those three for one minute.  There's then the player's agents to deal with and let's face it, Leicester isn't London or Manchester is it. We're not the most attractive proposition albeit we might think we are. There are shades of Middlesbrough and Newcastle of the past whereupon a bit more of an inducement may have to be paid just to get them here. We're a stepping stone at best to most.

 

If Rodgers was demanding certain players perhaps the pressure was on just to get the deal done? 

 

Think prior to Rodgers, and with the exception of the odd blip like Silva and Slimani, there have probably been dozens of deals under different managers and scouting teams that have gone swimmingly well and the club has made a fortune out of them! Same bloke as DofF. 

 

Is he faultless? Absolutely not. Is he to blame for everything? Absolutely not also. Is he disproportionately called out compared to others? I would suggest overwhelmingly so.

 

What about all this summers signings and loans deals, were they good business? I would say so. Same bloke. Perhaps just sometimes he's influenced by other circumstances and other people. 

 

 

Felt like I was a lone voice for a while, welcome to the club. 

Edited 8 February by Babylon

[Babylon]

On 02/02/2024 at 20:43, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Good summary there. Much more to it than we thought yesterday, but still the main criticism of leaving it to the last minute seems to remain. Surely these documents should have been drafted days in advance, not in the hours before the deadline.

Does it not clearly lay out the fact the deal was complicated and the paper work can only be done once you have said agreement in place.