Enzo Maresca frustration boils over as he says 'moment there's doubt about the idea, I will leave'

[Vestan Pance]

3 hours ago, Koke said:

He's half right. But unfortunately I have very little confidence is several of these players in the Premier League. Sure Vestergaard, Daka, Faes etc look incredible against Championship teams. Look at Swansea last night, they made some god awful errors. 

 

The first goal last night is an example of Enzo ball. Its exciting and technically proficient. But we sure as **** make life hard for ourselves at the back. A team like Brighton would score 5 against our defenders.

The only person who should be thinking about the Premier League is the person charged with forming a contingency plan should we make it. That isn't a concern of supporters, all we need to do is back the team 100% 

[lgfualol]

Even with our squad we probably would be in the playoffs at best if we played the style all the moaners want aka Albrighton twatting it long for Vardy to chase. 

[bovril]

10 minutes ago, DennisNedry said:

I do think there is some deliberate misunderstanding of fans frustrations in here.

 

I'm not a GERRIT FORWUD merchant by any means, however I do get frustrated with the negative decisions our players often take. 

 

There's been plenty of occasions where a promising attack is developing after beating the opponents press and we stop, turn back to our own goal and repeat the Faes-Vesty-Mads loop. Some players (like JJ for example) don't seem to be able to make a forward pass.

 

I understand anybody being frustrated watching us play at times this season. Who knows, perhaps last night in the absence of a dodgy penalty we might have found ourselves looking at another 1-1 after refusing to put a dreadful Swansea side to the sword.

 

That being said, it in no way excuses the dreadful atmosphere. Our fans are a weird bunch in that such a large amount of them don't seem to actually want to be there, it's as if going down the City is part of a community service sentence or something.

 

I think this is a fair post. I don't always enjoy the football and I think some people are going a bit overboard with some posts that imply anyone nostalgic for the swashbuckling style of 13/14 is some kind of knuckle-dragger. But it's effective, and at times very watchable, and I think the bad atmosphere has less to do with the football than people think. 

 

The thousands leaving on 85 minutes is unacceptable and embarrassing though. 

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

I am going to criticise him here. 

 

His point is valid - very valid. 

 

But as a manager in his position, there is always going to be criticism and pushing it back at the fans is a dangerous tactic. He won't help himself with that. 

I suppose he sees it as he's saying it - if you don't like me or what i'm doing - føkk you - i'll go somewhere where i'll be appreciated.

I'm sure he doesn't want to go, but why would he stay if he's not appreciated - i think he's completely helping himself, it's the moaning fans who are not helping.

[Lesta Legend]

20 minutes ago, DennisNedry said:

I do think there is some deliberate misunderstanding of fans frustrations in here.

 

I'm not a GERRIT FORWUD merchant by any means, however I do get frustrated with the negative decisions our players often take. 

 

There's been plenty of occasions where a promising attack is developing after beating the opponents press and we stop, turn back to our own goal and repeat the Faes-Vesty-Mads loop. Some players (like JJ for example) don't seem to be able to make a forward pass.

 

I understand anybody being frustrated watching us play at times this season. Who knows, perhaps last night in the absence of a dodgy penalty we might have found ourselves looking at another 1-1 after refusing to put a dreadful Swansea side to the sword.

 

That being said, it in no way excuses the dreadful atmosphere. Our fans are a weird bunch in that such a large amount of them don't seem to actually want to be there, it's as if going down the City is part of a community service sentence or something.

 

Think this is fair. I remember a groan (this is where Tanner then tweeted) and Praet rather than go forwards went back. This wasn’t an innate get it forward via a long ball groan but the go back rather than forward approach we seem to take more often than not. We can definitely be more positive under enzos philosophy and don’t immediately cautiously try and hold onto a lead once you score and invite pressure it’s an unnecessary change in mind set. What annoys me was the insistence to go right when we had two players open in space on the left, a few fans got fed up with that and not calling for the ball to be aimlessly lumped up, which a lot lazily insinuate is the case. 
 

Personally think Enzo is doing a superb job considering the mess we were in and we’re on course to get promotion. And I have found my love again for going to watch the team. Why wouldn’t you with all those wins!

 

But Enzo would be wise not to appreciate why some people may be groaning or leaving early. Could it be the goals we keep conceding late recently or goals from set pieces, the cautious approach we revert to at times - obvious factors which he could work to address or understand that while winning those moments will get a negative response from the crowd. I love the uplift from the crowd when we start driving to come back into the game and the players feed

on that and subsequently get a goal. 

Edited 31 January 2024 by Lesta Legend

[Les-TA-Jon]

9 minutes ago, Eurofox said:

It is crap to watch sideways & back passing football though 

Why? Spell it out for me. Do you mean that 'style' or do you literally mean 'most of the time, our players should be avoid a sideways or backwards pass, as much as possible'

 

Most of the passes here, in this excellent team goal, are sideways or backwards.

 

 

Edited 31 January 2024 by Les-TA-Jon

[Nolucklcfc]

19 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Its funny to me how this style does bring out the worst in people. Its why patience with the manager, and the team, is key.

 

I feel sometimes fans will accept a 4-2 result playing murderball, yet 3-1 with possession football will be seen as giving the opposition too many chances.

 

Our defensive stats and goal difference are insane, even with gifting many teams last minute goals.

 

 

People are just never happy. Especially our lot. 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, SamA27 said:

Well, you should know more than anyone else, what does Pep say in his book about plans?

"If Plan A doesn't work, you keep trying till you make Plan A work. There isn't a plan B or C" (this is not a direct quote)

Enzo is straight out of the school of Pep, he's done pretty well in management, hasn't he?!

 

Regarding "Plan A", Pep has changed it a few times. E.g. the inverted fullbacks were brought in midway through last season after a start that wasn't too good. He used a false 9 and then went more direct with Haaland, etc. In general, he's been 433 throughout his time as a coach, but he has adapted and altered things. The changes are pretty subtle in the overall context though, he's not gone 2 up top or wing backs for example.

 

In terms of Enzo, I think he will stick to Plan A stubbornly, and it will cost us points in the Premier League. But it might still result in trophies or Europe. It will basically be just like Brighton. They are worse this season, but after getting over 150M from selling their two best players, they didn't replace them too well. I think we would not do the same thing. That is outside of the manager IMO.

 

It's worth going over to the North Stand Chat forums to see some of the things their fans say about their manager:

RDZ has tried to play attacking football when the vast majority of our attacking/creative talent is in the physio room or on international duty. It hasn't worked and has made our defending even worse than it was already. Learn from it and move on.

 

We set up badly Saturday, got away with it, we set up the same last night and got handed out arse after 3 minutes. The overload down the left we just didn't deal with it. Steele's kicking was awful and he never comes off his line to meet crosses.
RDZ has to take the blame for the way we set up.

 

It's also clear that RDZ is struggling to adapt to a more pragmatic approach when things are going against him.
And the piss poor defensive record really is inexcusable. It's not just "play style" they don't seem to know what they're supposed to be doing half the time, giving runners completely free rein.

 

For me, it is extreme arrogance that brings us down. We should play the game deep in the oppo half for the first 5 minutes, just punt it up there and press hard, and as we settle 5 to 10 minutes into the game, then invite them on, pass and play out as we do. But our arrogance tells us we must play pretty ball from ball one, and we get punished. It’s not rocket science, just play the game up their end and chase them hard for 5 minutes, then there still 85 to do our normal thing.

 

Your last point is very valid l think, we have long struggled against teams who are very physical and play with a big front man. We are far too easily bullied and have a soft centre.

 

Replace "RDZ" with "EM" and I give you my prediction for most post-match threads after a loss for next season.

[FrankieADZ]

9 minutes ago, Eurofox said:

It is crap to watch sideways & back passing football though 

so youd rather us long pass it forward every time and hope it works

 

as Enzo said before a match is a like a game of chess, cant always just brute force it

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, MonarchFox said:

I think the frustration last night was there were several balls on due to Swansea playing such a high line and we went either backwards or sidewards or just picked the wrong pass.

 

The first goal was testament to how we could have played through them a little better.

 

I get Enzo has his style, but sometimes the game is crying out to be played a little differently.

 

Mavadidi was getting really frustrated in the 2nd half in front of us, as he kept making runs in behind and the ball just wasn't being played.  So it wasn't just the fans

but the players aren't perfect, they don't always see these opportunities.

the problem is that fans shouldn't be groaning in these situations when we are playing sufficiently well to have 14 shots and an xG of 2.7 - this isn't about what the players are doing, it's about the ignorance of the fans that they still can't rationalise that the 'boring' elements of our game (passing) lead to the exciting elements of our game (scoring).  It's retarded, they complain about a negative pass as though it defines our way of playing, yet ignore the fact that we have scored more goals than any team from a higher xG than any team.

 

The behaviour of these fans is ignorant, ungrateful and, frankly, indefensible.

[David Hiorns]

1 hour ago, jerry said:

Football ceased to be about entertainment long ago. Taken over by greed and avarice. Personally wouldn't sit in the freezing cold for two hours  to watch that .

Agreed, although what on earth has that got to do with our style of play… which is about winning…which is ultimately the objective… 

[Bluetintedspecs]

Dramatic twisting of words and loads of kneejerk overreacting 😏

[Nod.E]

12 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

How so?  They pay their money and can do what they want.  Putting money into the club is hardly against the best interests of the club.

At times last night it was noticeable that players reacted to groans and rushed the ball forward. We proceeded to lose the ball literally every time that happened.

 

If there's one stick to beat the team with yesterday, it's that we didn't take our (easy) chances when we were on top. 

 

Wouldn't have been so tense between minutes 30 and 60 if we did, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

Great question! I'm already calling that it will be a sh*t show next season as we lose games like the way Brighton did last night. In general, I tend to back managers for a long time till it really is clear that it's time to go and I don't see that changing with this one.

 

I have coaching certificates myself. Do I think I will ever be a real manager? Sadly, only on Football manager, but it is something I think a lot about. I have my own company and I feel like there are a lot of similarities to running a company as there is in coaching a football team, no matter what the level. I think that's one reason why I find sports management fascinating.

• What happens if Plan A doesn't work? Do you keep at it or change? At my company, we are currently on Plan C . But it's working! If we kept to Plan A, it would have been over by now.
   
• Culture. You try to set up and define a culture. People you recruit that fit that culture take the company forwards, those that don't often cause chaos or have to be moved on. But what if you need to hire someone with a skill set that is essential, but they don't fit the culture? E.g. a legal specialist? What if the culture you setup in the first place was wrong? Then what?

 

To answer your question, I don't think this system can beat superior teams consistently. I do expect us to have some awesome results, e.g. playing this way, I could see us going to Man City and beating them 3-0 away with 55% possession. However, I could also see us losing 5-0 at home to West Ham despite having 75% possession. And yes it will be West Ham because of the way Moyes plays. They will bully the life out of Winks and Ricardo, and it has a high chance of working.

 

I personally would make changes, and have differing ways to play against certain opposition. The Southampton away game this season was the only one where a Championship team has had more possession than us 11vs11, but we spanked them. I would also change it on occasion against other teams, e.g. West Ham. Personally I would also be a bit more direct than Pep, Enzo, Arteta, etc. But it's notable how Klopp dialled back how attacking his teams are to be more control based. He did that for a reason!

 

However, I understand why coaches like Enzo have a meticulous plan that they stick to like glue. Communication in any organisation is difficult. Confusing your message is often a far worse crime, as staff / players get confused as to what to do. Let's be honest, footballers are not the smartest. Over the last 10 years, positional play has taken over from free-flowing artistry of classic number 10s' like Zidane, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Kaka, etc. But it's because when you are drilled day in, day out and know exactly what to do in a given situation, it becomes easy and at times automatic. So really you should only switch it up once your team has reached a certain mastery of the first system. And as of writing, we haven't! There are quite a few issues with the way we play, though overall it's clearly working.

Superb response, I appreciate you humouring me.

 

I suppose another issue next season is that we likely see a mass change of the playing squad and all of a sudden we now have 10+ players that now need to get up to speed.

 

I fundamentally agree with the approach. I think it's the execution and the seemingly rigid belief that there are no alternatives that I have issue with.

 

One of my main issues is that I still think there has to be a better way than passing out from your goal kicks if the other team are going man for man. I'd like to see the players have 2 or 3 options from goal kicks and based on how the opposition sets up, they choose the best option there. We've got a keeper that can clip a ball 70 yards with fairly decent accuracy. If the opposition are going man for man and the CBs are on the half way line. You clip one in behind for Fatawu/Daka/Mavididi to chase, all of a sudden you've got them running back to goal and panicking. If they're sitting off, then knock out out to a CB and build from there.

 

The other soft skills that you've explained are why I quite like Enzo and hope he does well for us. He's said a few things that have confused me, like the statement about throwing it all in if people aren't on board... however I do a lot of things with a pinch of salt, especially with him not being a native speaker.

I'm glad I'm finding this season boring because I'd be genuinely worried about us becoming the next Stoke if I had any doubts about us going back up this season. I'm intrigued to see where next year takes us. I'm kind of already expecting to take a few beatings next season, so for me it's all about. Are we looking competitive and are we moving forwards as a club. It's really the one thing I want from any manager.  That progress is why I could stomach Puel's awful football - you could see that long term he was benefiting the club, even if in the short term it was awful to watch at times.

[Claudio Fannieri]

There is a time and a place for all out aggression, 100 mile an hour pashun and a hit and hope approach to the end game …….and it ain’t in modern day football or in the bedroom 😂 slow and steady wins the race 

Edited 31 January 2024 by Claudio Fannieri

[bovril]

26 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Complaining about the style of football when winning games and dominating the league can only really happen at a very entitled and spoilt fan base. 

 

Do you think Ipswich give a shiny shite about the style of football? No. They are desperate for promotion at any cost and the manager will be even more of a hero if he achieves it. 

 

Martin O'Neils style of football was pretty erm let's be kind and call it direct and pragmatic. But no one cared, in fact we embraced it with chants of "boring boring Leicester" ringing out round filbo after yet another semi final win. The fans were happy after all those years of utter shite to have a side playing with passion and complete fearlessness. And after last season I feel the same and I hope to christ that these raging, entitled nob heads don't Sour the relationship between the fans and a clearly great manager. 

O'Neill's football was direct but I found it more entertaining than the current team. But that's due to other factors, not just tactics. Football is totally different now anyway, even watching the great Arsenal vs United games from the 90s it looks like present day non-league. 

[Chelmofox]

6 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Dramatic twisting of words and loads of kneejerk overreacting 😏

100%. Can see Jordan Blackwell is trying to gets clicks on X posting drivel about threatening to quit.

 

Hopefully Enzo has the sense just to get back to the training ground and get on with what he does best. Be nice to get this horrible transfer window out of the way as well.

[MPH]

38 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

I think you have totally missed my point….

 

My perception is that it is a minority who are doing as you say and complaining about the job he is doing. Maybe that naiive of me and it’s a higher proportion than I think. Mostly, it is balanced views recognising the good and where we can and need to improve. Not everything is perfect.

 

So my point about him being over sensitive I stand by. I don’t think he should be throwing his toys out and threatening to leave over a minority of supporters not getting on board. 
 

And I’m saying this as someone who is on board and like him as a person. But this doesn’t sit right with me.

 

I do see what you are saying, but I disagree with you. I think it’s a bigger amount of people thank you think.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

1 hour ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Like is happening at Leeds?

I'm quoting the Radio Leicester caller who said it when Nigel wasn't winning League One hard enough.

[Cincinnati Fox]

Our crap fan base will cost us players and mangers. 
all you that leave early are total *****!

no excuse !

don’t want to stay they whole game and sing your hearts out for the lads then don’t ****ing come.

[David Hiorns]

13 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Why? Spell it out for me. Do you mean that 'style' or do you literally mean 'most of the time, our players should be avoid a sideways or backwards pass, as much as possible'

 

Most of the passes here, in this excellent team goal, are sideways or backwards.

 

 

The moans and groans from the morons are audible, shall we stop trying to reason with stupid fools who are stuck in the past. One thing is for sure, when we have the ball, there is nothing the opposition can do, and we are always seeking a way to break them down… something we’ve previously struggled to do under other managers. In addition, were this sequence in the final minutes of a game we were winning comfortably, it would be greeted by ‘oles’ by the clowns.., best advice, if you don’t understand something, seek to, otherwise accept it… or preferably if you’re going to be toxic about it, walk away, and create some space for those who appreciate and support the team and Enzo

[Lionator]

Enzo, sat in his Seagrave office, checking in on foxes talk...

 

 

[Stadt]

The discontent with the style of play is downstream of the "match day experience" in my opinion.

 

Boring ground, 90% sat down in homogenous stands, crap expensive beer, music blasted out at full time, stale STH set up, minimal general sale tickets.

 

The moaners don't like going to games which is why they leave at 85 minutes - it's easier to reconcile that you're fed up with the style of play than simply just football. It's a difficult thing to admit.

 

It didn't matter how we played, they'd moan.

 

How many people would like to give up their ST for year? I've thought about it, a friend of mine said the same recently. Instead we can't because there's no chance of getting it back.

 

It's down to the club to find out why people are unhappy, why they're leaving early, find out what they want and what makes games enjoyable. Instead they're low agency suits with a disinterest in making things better.

 

 

[Dan]

This club, and fanbase is completely broken.

[whoareyaaa]

9 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Superb response, I appreciate you humouring me.

 

I suppose another issue next season is that we likely see a mass change of the playing squad and all of a sudden we now have 10+ players that now need to get up to speed.

 

I fundamentally agree with the approach. I think it's the execution and the seemingly rigid belief that there are no alternatives that I have issue with.

 

One of my main issues is that I still think there has to be a better way than passing out from your goal kicks if the other team are going man for man. I'd like to see the players have 2 or 3 options from goal kicks and based on how the opposition sets up, they choose the best option there. We've got a keeper that can clip a ball 70 yards with fairly decent accuracy. If the opposition are going man for man and the CBs are on the half way line. You clip one in behind for Fatawu/Daka/Mavididi to chase, all of a sudden you've got them running back to goal and panicking. If they're sitting off, then knock out out to a CB and build from there.

 

The other soft skills that you've explained are why I quite like Enzo and hope he does well for us. He's said a few things that have confused me, like the statement about throwing it all in if people aren't on board... however I do a lot of things with a pinch of salt, especially with him not being a native speaker.

I'm glad I'm finding this season boring because I'd be genuinely worried about us becoming the next Stoke if I had any doubts about us going back up this season. I'm intrigued to see where next year takes us. I'm kind of already expecting to take a few beatings next season, so for me it's all about. Are we looking competitive and are we moving forwards as a club. It's really the one thing I want from any manager.  That progress is why I could stomach Puel's awful football - you could see that long term he was benefiting the club, even if in the short term it was awful to watch at times.

Highly unlikely we will see a mass turnover of players, most of these players already performed well in the Prem. The midfield was a big issue last season and is the reason we got relegated. this time round we will have a much better system and midfield.

 

we also had Amartey and Luke Thomas featuring most weeks in defence along with Danny Ward in goal.

Edited 31 January 2024 by whoareyaaa