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Daggers

What grinds my gears...

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7 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

It's not just anything though is it, these are clinically tested and working vaccines that prevent the outbreak of serious disease amongst the population.

Im not going to ffight this fight, my own daughter was vaccinated.

I just find the concept that so many people who talk about government intrusion etc.. will happily hand over their or their childs body without question.

 

edit... and they will have those trhat disagree be treated as TERRORISTS... just read that word and what it means

Edited by ozleicester
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1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

Im not going to ffight this fight, my own daughter was vaccinated.

I just find the concept that so many people who talk about government intrusion etc.. will happily hand over their or their childs body without question.

I don't think it's dissonance to not trust a government that acts in the shadows with little oversight but then do trust the same government when they have solid scientific backup from the scientific community.

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Just now, leicsmac said:

I don't think it's dissonance to not trust a government that acts in the shadows with little oversight but then do trust the same government when they have solid scientific backup from the scientific community.

but... freedom of choice?

 

sorry no thats it im out

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8 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

lol someone at work literally said they were going plant based after watching this earlier today, and their partner has now downloaded a list of plant-based food sold by the supermarket they shop in as they also go all in following this show.

 

Any more info to fire at them so I can try and rebut? I was skeptical when I heard about it in the first place. Arm me with knowledge.

I think that was the desired effect....

 

Where to start haha.... keeping things simple the show is horribly one sided, naturally the "evidence" they present naturally leans towards favoring plant based diets, (which is the point of the show, it is a painful pitch for plant based eating habits). 

 

The "studies" they refer to aren't really studies... for example, the pitch about the gladiators is far off the mark, there have been papers written about the gladiators that do delve into their diets, there was nothing remotely scientific about it, they were slaves who were primarily fed plant based foods and breads as it was cheap, and it was what they were given. Andrew Curry wrote a price about it, he references that gladiators do eat large amounts of fruit and veg.... but that was the sign of the times, it's not like they had a Tesco around the corner to buy a family curry bag....

 

One of the biggest flaws is the reference to cows milk lowering estrogen.... I can remember revising a piece that covered this topic, and a few years ago a study was carried out with a group of men and women and this study was about the impact of PREGNANT cows milk on both men a women, where estrogen levels temporarily dropped in a hand full of men literally a hand full.... and the impact was temporary, and I mean a day temporary before returning to normal. 

 

Another point is that they constantly reference studies and research approved by the "Hass Avocado Board", they are hardly going to support any studies that casts doubt over their "studies" are they? 

 

 As for the particulars of the show when talking about meat for example hetereocyclic, amines, heme iron and TMAO (all compounds present in animal products) they refer to all of the extensive research into their links to inflammation which leads to various ailments such as cancer, diabetes etc. Well factually there is no substantial evidence to support these claims, even in the studies linking processed meats where there are links to cancer, are still minimal in the grand scheme of things, what you have to remember is these studies are carried out on groups of people no larger than 100 (just a ball park figure), not the entire population, so mathematically the statistic may make sense, realistically it doesn't. It is like calculating how long it would take fly a rocket to Pluto, you could work it out and get a figure, but no human will actually get there.... 

 

I don't mean to bash people beliefs, but when you spend so long at universities and invest so many years into research to be watch things like this is pretty annoying... not to mention the impact it can have on people who may be easily influenced. I have nothing against plant based diets, but when referencing research and studies reveal both the arguments for and against for balance. 

 

Eating habits have been no secret, and I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan told me in the 80's to eat my greens, the key to a healthy gut is balance, the right amount of fruit, veg, plenty of water and even meat, throw that in with some exercise and you are about there. There is an issue with the way meat is farmed and the sheer amount we waste, this is merely an argument of morals, not health. Naturally if you go from eating next to no plant based foods, to complete plant based foods you will feel a temporary lift and probably feel a lot better, due to the change in consistent nutrients that your body is getting, this will shortly return to normal after a while... it certainly doesn't make you super human, lets take Michael Phelps and an example.... when competing he ate 12,000 calories a day of shit pretty much, and in his prime was probably one of the fittest men alive, and arguably the greatest Olympian ever.... 

 

If you want a good book full of good balanced advice, "the clever gut" book series are excellent. 

 

I hope that in basic form clears some things up! 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Im not going to ffight this fight, my own daughter was vaccinated.

I just find the concept that so many people who talk about government intrusion etc.. will happily hand over their or their childs body without question.

 

edit... and they will have those trhat disagree be treated as TERRORISTS... just read that word and what it means

 

Where does that end?

 

How can I trust healthcare professionals in the NHS if they're part of the State?

 

C'mon Oz you're the last person I expect to be producing anti-science like this.

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22 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Your obsession with me verges on disturbing.

 

No other member on this site has quoted me more than you.

 

I respect your mental health issues and accept your need to attempt to bully me, i have, for the past six months ignored your cheap childish insults, but equating me with Hitler and Farage is going beyond the pale.

 

How bout you grow up and **** off

"How bout you grow up and **** off" - General Franco

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Just now, Finnaldo said:

 

Where does that end?

 

How can I trust healthcare professionals in the NHS if they're part of the State?

 

C'mon Oz you're the last person I expect to be producing anti-science like this.

Im not anti vax... but, i am anti government intrusion and compulsion. Im opposed to people being called terrorists because they hold a different opinion.

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18 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Im not anti vax... but, i am anti government intrusion and compulsion. Im opposed to people being called terrorists because they hold a different opinion.

What are the different opinions? One for eradicating potentially fatal diseases, and the other for putting vulnerable people at risk of dreadful illness and possibly death? 

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14 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I don't even understand how you could possibly be against the vaccination of easy to prevent but difficult to cure diseases?

On the topic of preserving future lives I'm not sure I understand how anyone can be against restructuring the way humans generate energy, use transportation and process resources worldwide so as to stave off a much larger cost in money and lives later on...but here we are.

 

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

We need to be less harsh of suicide bombers, freedom of choice is to be respected.

Forgive me for interrupting you giving Oz a kicking, but I seem to remember you were quite keen on freedom of choice when it was suggested that governments should use legislation to clamp down on emissions and restrict eating of meat products Matt :ph34r:.

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All joking aside, being anti-vaccine needs to be put on a par with drink-driving. I think that is a fair comparison in terms of offence. It might not immediately cause harm and in some cases it won't cause any damage and won't even be noticeable. But it is the risk you put other people at as well as yourself that means you should be punished.

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10 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

All joking aside, being anti-vaccine needs to be put on a par with drink-driving. I think that is a fair comparison in terms of offence. It might not immediately cause harm and in some cases it won't cause any damage and won't even be noticeable. But it is the risk you put other people at as well as yourself that means you should be punished.

Anti-Vax is one of those things that I get irrationally emotional about. As in, I'd go for really, really harsh sanctions against parents. No public interaction (aka access to schools), kids/family placed on lists so they can be traced. Basically ostracise from society to try, as much as possible, to keep people safe.

 

Completely irrational and so many flaws in my opinion I know, but it's one of those where I just cannot comprehend why you'd trust a few cranks on the internet over the health of your child.

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1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I think that was the desired effect....

 

Where to start haha.... keeping things simple the show is horribly one sided, naturally the "evidence" they present naturally leans towards favoring plant based diets, (which is the point of the show, it is a painful pitch for plant based eating habits). 

 

The "studies" they refer to aren't really studies... for example, the pitch about the gladiators is far off the mark, there have been papers written about the gladiators that do delve into their diets, there was nothing remotely scientific about it, they were slaves who were primarily fed plant based foods and breads as it was cheap, and it was what they were given. Andrew Curry wrote a price about it, he references that gladiators do eat large amounts of fruit and veg.... but that was the sign of the times, it's not like they had a Tesco around the corner to buy a family curry bag....

 

One of the biggest flaws is the reference to cows milk lowering estrogen.... I can remember revising a piece that covered this topic, and a few years ago a study was carried out with a group of men and women and this study was about the impact of PREGNANT cows milk on both men a women, where estrogen levels temporarily dropped in a hand full of men literally a hand full.... and the impact was temporary, and I mean a day temporary before returning to normal. 

 

Another point is that they constantly reference studies and research approved by the "Hass Avocado Board", they are hardly going to support any studies that casts doubt over their "studies" are they? 

 

 As for the particulars of the show when talking about meat for example hetereocyclic, amines, heme iron and TMAO (all compounds present in animal products) they refer to all of the extensive research into their links to inflammation which leads to various ailments such as cancer, diabetes etc. Well factually there is no substantial evidence to support these claims, even in the studies linking processed meats where there are links to cancer, are still minimal in the grand scheme of things, what you have to remember is these studies are carried out on groups of people no larger than 100 (just a ball park figure), not the entire population, so mathematically the statistic may make sense, realistically it doesn't. It is like calculating how long it would take fly a rocket to Pluto, you could work it out and get a figure, but no human will actually get there.... 

 

I don't mean to bash people beliefs, but when you spend so long at universities and invest so many years into research to be watch things like this is pretty annoying... not to mention the impact it can have on people who may be easily influenced. I have nothing against plant based diets, but when referencing research and studies reveal both the arguments for and against for balance. 

 

Eating habits have been no secret, and I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan told me in the 80's to eat my greens, the key to a healthy gut is balance, the right amount of fruit, veg, plenty of water and even meat, throw that in with some exercise and you are about there. There is an issue with the way meat is farmed and the sheer amount we waste, this is merely an argument of morals, not health. Naturally if you go from eating next to no plant based foods, to complete plant based foods you will feel a temporary lift and probably feel a lot better, due to the change in consistent nutrients that your body is getting, this will shortly return to normal after a while... it certainly doesn't make you super human, lets take Michael Phelps and an example.... when competing he ate 12,000 calories a day of shit pretty much, and in his prime was probably one of the fittest men alive, and arguably the greatest Olympian ever.... 

 

If you want a good book full of good balanced advice, "the clever gut" book series are excellent. 

 

I hope that in basic form clears some things up! 

Perfect! Always have a problem with these documentaries. I mean things like Loose Change, this et al are designed to go in and have you come out thinking it was the opinion they're holding when they produced it. Almost impressive how they exploit the audience that easily, but I guess if there's money to be made from it.

 

I overheard something in the show about someone with an injury and how they'd recovered in plant-based after just six weeks and were better/fitter than ever? I did say he should get the same injury and then try a meat-based diet as a comparison...

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3 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

Perfect! Always have a problem with these documentaries. I mean things like Loose Change, this et al are designed to go in and have you come out thinking it was the opinion they're holding when they produced it. Almost impressive how they exploit the audience that easily, but I guess if there's money to be made from it.

 

I overheard something in the show about someone with an injury and how they'd recovered in plant-based after just six weeks and were better/fitter than ever? I did say he should get the same injury and then try a meat-based diet as a comparison...

They do, not to mention that Netflix series are built on sponsors, and meat industries aren’t going to support a documentary which is against everything they stand for are they? So unfortunately the shows are flawed from the start. 
 

As for James Wilks, who is actually a Leicester lad... his examples are completely over sexed to make it look Hollywood.... plus the examples he shows to demonstrate his fitness are odd, I know a chap who can do the battle ropes for an hour, and he isn’t plant based at all, why not go into a lab and actually get some scientific examples of his fitness? Not to mention the “strongman” can’t even set his chains up properly.... so to anyone who knows the industry they probably switched off during the opening titles. 
 

The show is full of plant based athletes and big names, even Arnie is on it... so they certainly get a 10/10 for production. Slight oversight on their behalf was the shot of Messi, he is not a plant based athlete. 
 

It just annoys me because their approach is dangerous, You already have evidence that people will hang on every word, and it can cause some people some issues depending on their mental well-being at the time. Shows like this should be well rounded and present facts for both sides of the argument... if I presented evidence to people like they did, I would probably lose my career.

Edited by Pliskin
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7 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Commentators apologising for language heard in the stand. It's a football game, its expected there will be bad language 

Why don't they just put out a warning beforehand that the programme may contain bad language? 

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