Depression

[BertFill]

2 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I'd like to think she'd probably know it was a mistake.

Hopefully. But still...

[HighPeakFox]

4 minutes ago, BertFill said:

Hopefully. But still...

Might require a direct message - not sure how often the mods check this thread.

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, BertFill said:

Hopefully. But still...

 

2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Might require a direct message - not sure how often the mods check this thread.

Looks like it's been taken care of, in that I can't see any reaction from isaidno. I assume it couldn't be changed, but could be deleted

[isaidno]

The reaction shows as a crying sad face on my screen unless someone has edited ? Apologies to anyone I have upset.

I've lost 2 friends to suicide in the last couple of years so have seen the devastion that suicide can cause.

 

Thoughts are with you Deb and the foxestalk community are here if you need anything. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

Oh Debs, I'm so sorry

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, isaidno said:

The reaction shows as a crying sad face on my screen unless someone has edited ? Apologies to anyone I have upset.

I've lost 2 friends to suicide in the last couple of years so have seen the devastion that suicide can cause.

 

Thoughts are with you Deb and the foxestalk community are here if you need anything. 

I think it was edited or removed - best wishes to you.

[Suzie the Fox]

What a sad post to read @FoxesDebas a mother to a son,  my heart goes out to you and i can not even imagine what you are going thru right now. I am not good with words and writing down  & getting across what i want to tell you right now, but i am a great listener and if you need someone to vent to or to just listen i am 100% available. 

 

Big big heartfelt hugs to you and your family <3 

[Daggers]

On 30/03/2024 at 20:02, FoxesDeb said:

I need to write this somewhere, partly to let those of you who have noticed I haven't been around lately the reason why, and partly just to write it somewhere I suppose.

 

My youngest son died last month, he was 20 years old and he took his own life completely unexpectedly. He had absolutely everything to live for, a job he loved, a girlfriend who was besotted with him and him with her, a loving family, and it's completely broken me. Everyone thinks their kids are great, but a funnier, kinder, well mannered and level headed young lad you could not hope to meet.

 

I don't see the point in anything anymore really, and if it wasn't for my husband and other son and daughter I would have already left to be with him. I live about 500m from the sea and the temptation to just walk into it is almost overwhelming at times, I feel so sad that he's on his own,  I'm so angry with him for leaving me like this, and I miss him immeasurably. Every parent has moments wondering what it must be like to lose a child, and it's absolutely horrific.

 

The way I view everything has changed, I can't listen to music, can't watch things on TV that might bring any kind of reminder, and what I do try to watch as a distraction I'm not really watching, I'm just thinking about his last moments, what he must have been thinking and feeling, wondering all sorts of awful things really.

 

F1 was our thing together and I can't bear to see any mention of it anywhere, I can't watch our games because it just seems so frivolous and reminds me of all the times my son and I spent together at the KP, I can't look at his photos, the list is endless and I don't know if it will ever be any better than this. Everything just seems so completely pointless. My daughter shares the same birthday as him, this November she will turn 18 on the same day he would have turned 21, what a fvcking day that's going to be.

 

We all think these things happen to other people, until they happen to us. If anyone here has been through similar you have my complete sympathy, hopefully it doesn't feel like this forever but I can't imagine when it will change, and then I also feel guilty for not wanting to feel like this forever. However awful I might have previously imagined something like this to be was absolutely nowhere remotely close to how it actually feels, I wouldn't wish this on anyone. 

So, so sorry to read this. Thought are with you all, Debs. 

[FoxesDeb]

Thank you all for your kind words, I can't tell you all how much it means to me, I truly appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond, react and to message me privately. 

 

@Wymsey what a lovely idea, I would really like that, thank you. I  don't really have any suggestions unfortunately, maybe MIND or the Samaritans? 

 

My son, Ellis, would probably be just as happy with a donation in his name to @Union FS for their next Tifo, or as a contribution to their next food bank drive. Maybe @SemperEadem or @Sol thewall Bambacan provide the bank details?

 

Thank you again to you all, your words have made me cry, but in a good way 💙

[weller54]

On 30/03/2024 at 20:02, FoxesDeb said:

I need to write this somewhere, partly to let those of you who have noticed I haven't been around lately the reason why, and partly just to write it somewhere I suppose.

 

My youngest son died last month, he was 20 years old and he took his own life completely unexpectedly. He had absolutely everything to live for, a job he loved, a girlfriend who was besotted with him and him with her, a loving family, and it's completely broken me. Everyone thinks their kids are great, but a funnier, kinder, well mannered and level headed young lad you could not hope to meet.

 

I don't see the point in anything anymore really, and if it wasn't for my husband and other son and daughter I would have already left to be with him. I live about 500m from the sea and the temptation to just walk into it is almost overwhelming at times, I feel so sad that he's on his own,  I'm so angry with him for leaving me like this, and I miss him immeasurably. Every parent has moments wondering what it must be like to lose a child, and it's absolutely horrific.

 

The way I view everything has changed, I can't listen to music, can't watch things on TV that might bring any kind of reminder, and what I do try to watch as a distraction I'm not really watching, I'm just thinking about his last moments, what he must have been thinking and feeling, wondering all sorts of awful things really.

 

F1 was our thing together and I can't bear to see any mention of it anywhere, I can't watch our games because it just seems so frivolous and reminds me of all the times my son and I spent together at the KP, I can't look at his photos, the list is endless and I don't know if it will ever be any better than this. Everything just seems so completely pointless. My daughter shares the same birthday as him, this November she will turn 18 on the same day he would have turned 21, what a fvcking day that's going to be.

 

We all think these things happen to other people, until they happen to us. If anyone here has been through similar you have my complete sympathy, hopefully it doesn't feel like this forever but I can't imagine when it will change, and then I also feel guilty for not wanting to feel like this forever. However awful I might have previously imagined something like this to be was absolutely nowhere remotely close to how it actually feels, I wouldn't wish this on anyone. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No words 😪..

My deepest condolences.

Much love x

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

Thank you all for your kind words, I can't tell you all how much it means to me, I truly appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond, react and to message me privately. 

 

@Wymsey what a lovely idea, I would really like that, thank you. I  don't really have any suggestions unfortunately, maybe MIND or the Samaritans? 

 

My son, Ellis, would probably be just as happy with a donation in his name to @Union FS for their next Tifo, or as a contribution to their next food bank drive. Maybe @SemperEadem or @Sol thewall Bambacan provide the bank details?

 

Thank you again to you all, your words have made me cry, but in a good way 💙

I believe Semper has dropped you a message. Thank you so much.

[filthyfox]

Today is the last day that I give in to sleep during the day.

 

I may have to kick my love of midnight karaoke, but I feel I have to do this to be a better me.

[MPH]

7 hours ago, filthyfox said:

Today is the last day that I give in to sleep during the day.

 

I may have to kick my love of midnight karaoke, but I feel I have to do this to be a better me.

 

Making changes is a good thing!

[casablancas]

7 hours ago, filthyfox said:

Today is the last day that I give in to sleep during the day.

 

I may have to kick my love of midnight karaoke, but I feel I have to do this to be a better me.

Keep your changes small and achievable and keep notes, always a benefit in seeing how you move forward. Trying to occupy your time and mind meaningfully can do wonders as can techniques like mindfulness and parts of compassion based therapy which you don’t need a therapist for. I wish you luck. 

[Parafox]

On 27/03/2024 at 00:08, Parafox said:

My daughter, who i have posted about earl

An update... She was sectioned yesterday and is currently in a secure MHU. We're not sure what brought this about but apparently the police and MHU professionals were involved following concerns raised by the crisis team and her MH team after neighbours made complaints about her behaviour and our own calls to them a few weeks ago, when we realised she was spiralling downwards. 

 

We went to her flat to get things she needed and frankly, it was a tip, again. Just self neglect. No effort to look after herself. Food waste, general  debris all over. No evidence of any cleaning routine. Just so, so sad to see how she has been living even though we've been before and cleared all her waste  and rubbish, hoping that might initiate something within her to continue to keep her flat a decent place to live in. It clearly didn't because she is in that deep trough of depression that nothing is worth caring about, except her beloved cat and he has everything he needs because he, in her mind is her only friend and companion.

 

She can't understand why she has been sectioned and thinks that there is no justification for her being there. She has been irrational and psychotic for months and now, hopefully, she will get some proper support and involvement from the MH professionals that she has needed but not received, for so long.

 

I feel despair. I have no doubt that she will be discharged from hospital after she has recovered and been deemed safe to go home, but I know from previous experience that any stability is unlikely to be long term.

 

 A year at best down the line and we'll be back here again.

 

Like so many other illnesses, MH is incurable but unlike those other illnesses, it isn't a priority for proactive treatment.

 

Friends say we are remarkable people to still be here, together, not giving up. To us, albeit she is our adopted daughter she is someone we love and care deeply about and we'd never give up trying to make her life better.

 

20 or so years of  us trying to manage and understand and adapt and forgive and move on from the turmoil and heartbreak and stress she has caused through no fault of her own because she is after all, unwell has really taken it's toll on us. But as I've said before in previous posts, we carry on because without us, we people who care for our loved ones, who else is there?

 

 

On 27/03/2024 at 14:10, LiberalFox said:

Sorry to hear that. I hope she gets the immediate care she needs.

 

 

 

She is now in a secure MHU and has been for two weeks now. We went to see her today for the first time since her admission. 

 

She was so angry with us and believes that we are the instigators of her admission. We had to end the visit as we felt threatened by her behaviour.

 

I can't put into words how it is a struggle for her and for us. She said she is determined to get revenge on those that she feels have made her life

miserable or that she perceives as a threat and said she will attack them on sight.

 

I just can't see how she will ever be allowed back into the community unless there a significant change and I pin my hopes on the long term treatment in the MHU but even then, there is a real chance that she will revert to type once she is back in her home. 

 

I genuinely fear that she will ultimately go to prison.

[Wymsey]

6 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

 

She is now in a secure MHU and has been for two weeks now. We went to see her today for the first time since her admission. 

 

She was so angry with us and believes that we are the instigators of her admission. We had to end the visit as we felt threatened by her behaviour.

 

I can't put into words how it is a struggle for her and for us. She said she is determined to get revenge on those that she feels have made her life

miserable or that she perceives as a threat and said she will attack them on sight.

 

I just can't see how she will ever be allowed back into the community unless there a significant change and I pin my hopes on the long term treatment in the MHU but even then, there is a real chance that she will revert to type once she is back in her home. 

 

I genuinely fear that she will ultimately go to prison.

Am sorry to hear of her/your ongoing struggle on this front.

 

What do you think should be involved as part of your daughter's treatment plan?

-

Dread to think that there's a lot of people struggling with MH issues, but are too scared/unable to reach out for support.

Edited 9 April by Wymsey

[Parafox]

3 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

 

She is now in a secure MHU and has been for two weeks now. We went to see her today for the first time since her admission. 

 

She was so angry with us and believes that we are the instigators of her admission. We had to end the visit as we felt threatened by her behaviour.

 

I can't put into words how it is a struggle for her and for us. She said she is determined to get revenge on those that she feels have made her life

miserable or that she perceives as a threat and said she will attack them on sight.

 

I just can't see how she will ever be allowed back into the community unless there a significant change and I pin my hopes on the long term treatment in the MHU but even then, there is a real chance that she will revert to type once she is back in her home. 

 

I genuinely fear that she will ultimately go to prison.

 

What is really saddening is that it's not her fault. We know about her pre-adoptive history.

 

She was born to parents who were drug users, who had a previous child, our daughter's elder brother, who was taken into care at risk of neglect and emotional abuse as an infant. He took his own life at 27.

 

Our daughter was also a victim of emotional and human neglect. What we know about her life, from birth to her going into care and it is harrowing. I can't put it on here it's that bad. It's no wonder she is full of hate and vile. The unfortunate thing, among others things, is that there was never any real support for her, other than removal from her birth parents and going to foster carers. 

 

We were left to pick up the after effects of this. Social Services acknowledged there were issues due to our daughter's early life experiences but we had no support.

 

We don't know how to help her. It's not her fault after all. She is not the only one suffering from the actions of those who were supposed to keep her safe. Those are the ones I'd kick in the face if I could. I don't even think they'd care even if they could see the consequences of their neglect and abuse.  

 

She wasn't born a bad person. She has become difficult through her life experiences. 

 

I feel so sad for her. She's a victim of her birth parents. The question is, are her birth parents victims of their own birth parents?

 

It's a never ending cycle.

 

 

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, Wymsey said:

Am sorry to hear of her/your ongoing struggle on this front.

 

What do you think should be involved as part of your daughter's treatment plan?

-

Dread to think that there's a lot of people struggling with MH issues, but are too scared/unable to reach out for support.

 

I don't know. We're so tired of trying to work this out. It's so complex and our daughter is one of thousands that are suffering. It should be down to the professionals to determine the best way forward. It feels to me that they are so overwhelmed that individual care is so difficult to manage it becomes unmanageable.

 

30 years of our life dominated by the mental health of someone we didn't give birth to and have had to do our best for on behalf of people who couldn't care less. **** them. I couldn't care less about them.

 

We absolutely love her in spite of everything that has gone before. The threats, the anger, the hatred, the verbal abuse the physical attacks.

 

"It's not her fault "is our mantra. Even after she has had me at knifepoint. After she has cut herself for the umpteenth time. And now, after another admission to MHU. 

 

We are becoming used to the hope  being followed by despair. It's no wonder people are afraid to reach out. They should, because what might not work for us could very well work for them. It's out there, take the chance, it might just change your life.

 

Anyone dealing with MH, either personally or professionally, will understand the level of commitment and understanding and sympathy that's involved in caring for someone that's suffering. 

 

Suffering... please acknowledge that word. They suffer, immeasurably. Everyday. For their entire life

 

Their ENTIRE life.

 

No days off. No breaks to feel normal. 

 

 

 

Edited 9 April by Parafox

[Wymsey]

8 hours ago, Parafox said:

 

I don't know. We're so tired of trying to work this out. It's so complex and our daughter is one of thousands that are suffering. It should be down to the professionals to determine the best way forward. It feels to me that they are so overwhelmed that individual care is so difficult to manage it becomes unmanageable.

 

30 years of our life dominated by the mental health of someone we didn't give birth to and have had to do our best for on behalf of people who couldn't care less. **** them. I couldn't care less about them.

 

We absolutely love her in spite of everything that has gone before. The threats, the anger, the hatred, the verbal abuse the physical attacks.

 

"It's not her fault "is our mantra. Even after she has had me at knifepoint. After she has cut herself for the umpteenth time. And now, after another admission to MHU. 

 

We are becoming used to the hope  being followed by despair. It's no wonder people are afraid to reach out. They should, because what might not work for us could very well work for them. It's out there, take the chance, it might just change your life.

 

Anyone dealing with MH, either personally or professionally, will understand the level of commitment and understanding and sympathy that's involved in caring for someone that's suffering. 

 

Suffering... please acknowledge that word. They suffer, immeasurably. Everyday. For their entire life

 

Their ENTIRE life.

 

No days off. No breaks to feel normal. 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, everyone's mental health battles are different to another's - of course.

 

The brain is a complex thing, and unfortunately mental health still seems very much a sensitive topic to talk about for many - but it's getting there.

 

Would your daughter be open to having a conversation on the phone to someone she doesn't know to discuss what's on her mind (if she hasn't tried already/if you have haven't recommended already)?

 

If so, I'd be more than willing to provide some contact details of some respected charities (not the Samaritans) I give to certain service users whilst volunteering for an emotional support organisation.

Edited 10 April by Wymsey

[casablancas]

19 hours ago, Parafox said:

 

 

She is now in a secure MHU and has been for two weeks now. We went to see her today for the first time since her admission. 

 

She was so angry with us and believes that we are the instigators of her admission. We had to end the visit as we felt threatened by her behaviour.

 

I can't put into words how it is a struggle for her and for us. She said she is determined to get revenge on those that she feels have made her life

miserable or that she perceives as a threat and said she will attack them on sight.

 

I just can't see how she will ever be allowed back into the community unless there a significant change and I pin my hopes on the long term treatment in the MHU but even then, there is a real chance that she will revert to type once she is back in her home. 

 

I genuinely fear that she will ultimately go to prison.

I don’t wanna piss on your boat mate but I highly doubt she’ll be there long term. It’s all about community driven care. A lot of it will also be sadly determined by her diagnosis. If it’s anything like a personality disorder guidelines suggest long term admissions are counter productive. Have you been involved in her care? Has the unit reached out for family history etc? I think long term psychological would be a valid treatment option, but she would have to want to engage and commit to it. 

Edited 10 April by casablancas

[Parafox]

10 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Unfortunately, everyone's mental health battles are different to another's - of course.

 

The brain is a complex thing, and unfortunately mental health still seems very much a sensitive topic to talk about for many - but it's getting there.

 

Would your daughter be open to having a conversation on the phone to someone she doesn't know to discuss what's on her mind (if she hasn't tried already/if you have haven't recommended already)?

 

If so, I'd be more than willing to provide some contact details of some respected charities (not the Samaritans) I give to certain service users whilst volunteering for an emotional support organisation.

 

Thank you Wymsey. I will PM you, probably after her discharge as there are suggestions from the MHU team that there will be some support in the community for her but it might well be that she won't entirely engage with them as she is very averse to any "formal" support where she will either be visited at home or will have appointments made to attend some kind of MH as an outpatient.

 

She may well be more open to an informal chat over the phone. It's unpredictable but it's worth a try.

 

Thanks again  

[Parafox]

13 minutes ago, casablancas said:

I don’t wanna piss on your boat mate but I highly doubt she’ll be there long term. It’s all about community driven care. A lot of it will also be sadly determined by her diagnosis. If it’s anything like a personality disorder guidelines suggest long term admissions are counter productive. Have you been involved in her care? Has the unit reached out for family history etc?

 

Well, it's section 2 at the moment so, up to 28 days, but it can be extended as I'm sure you know, depending on her MH progress to becoming well enough for discharge. I've been in this situation with her several times and in my experience she has never been discharged inappropriately.

 

She has been diagnosed with borderline PD, ADHD, Sociopathy, also currently and more recently, psychosis and paranoid thinking.

 

We have been involved in her care for 20 years on and off depending on her mental state and the need for support. 

 

And yes, we've had a conversation with her consultant about her family history as well as our experiences of her social behaviours, school attendance etc. as well as her involvement with social services over the years and especially at the times her daughters were removed from her. She has extensive notes available to the MH teams.

 

It just feels like there's no real resolution to this and that must be the same for anyone in our situation.

 

Edited 10 April by Parafox

[casablancas]

4 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

Well, it's section 2 at the moment so, up to 28 days, but it can be extended as I'm sure you know, depending on her MH progress to becoming well enough for discharge. I've been in this situation with her several times and in my experience she has never been discharged inappropriately.

 

She has been diagnosed with borderline PD, ADHD, Sociopathy, also currently and more recently, psychosis and paranoid thinking.

 

We have been involved in her care for 20 years on and off depending on her mental state and the need for support. 

 

And yes, we had conversation with her consultant about her family history as well as our experiences of her social behaviours, school attendance etc.

 as well as her involvement with social services over the years and especially at the times her daughters were removed from her. 

 

It's been a long, emotional and difficult road for all of us. 

 

I can only imagine mate. I’ve been working in mh for 20 odd years but it’s a very different challenge caring for someone you love. Ive always been big on supporting and engaging carer, I’ve followed your posts and it’s clearly taking a toll. Are you seeking support for yourself? You’re aware she can appeal her section right? Legally challenge it and request discharge. 

Edited 10 April by casablancas

[Parafox]

2 minutes ago, casablancas said:

I can only imagine mate. I’ve been working in mh for 20 odd years but it’s a very different challenge caring for someone you love. Ive always been big on supporting and engaging carer, I’ve followed your posts and it’s clearly taking a toll. Are you seeking support for yourself? You’re aware she can appeal her section right? Legally challenge it and request discharge. 

 

We have friends and family that are supportive. Our closest friends have witnessed T at her worst so they have some insight and understanding and also have had comparatively minor MH issues with their adopted daughters over the years so they are our go-to people when it's really tough.

 

Yes I am aware of the appeals process and that I can also appeal on her behalf. That's not something that I would contemplate though, as she needs to be where she is and even she acknowledges that and is compliant with her meds in the unit and hasn't been a problem for staff. It's a matter of reaching the point where she can either be medicated or counselled (or most likely, both) to be in a stable mental state to live independently again. As she did before this crisis.

[casablancas]

2 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

We have friends and family that are supportive. Our closest friends have witnessed T at her worst so they have some insight and understanding and also have had comparatively minor MH issues with their adopted daughters over the years so they are our go-to people when it's really tough.

 

Yes I am aware of the appeals process and that I can also appeal on her behalf. That's not something that I would contemplate though, as she needs to be where she is and even she acknowledges that and is compliant with her meds in the unit and hasn't been a problem for staff. It's a matter of reaching the point where she can either be medicated or counselled (or most likely, both) to be in a stable mental state to live independently again. As she did before this crisis.

Would you consider counselling yourself? Someone to offload to? Some structured interventions to help manage the impact this is having on yourself. I am sorry you’re having to experience the pains bud.