Sunderland AFC v Leicester City FC post match thread 0 - 2

[weller54]

When you look at how Danny Simpson saved that goal against Southampton after sprinting past Kasper and compare it to Cattermole in exactly the same position yesterday it completely justifies why we are where we are and they are where they are.

Cattermole couldn't run that fast so there was no point.

[m4DD0gg]

I was told yesterday that mahrez is suffering from altitude sickness. Don't know how it can still effect some nearly 2 weeks later

[SpacedX]

Thanks for the response.

 

There are two types of criticism - indeed the word itself is non-committal - there can be negative and positive criticism. As ever it's easy to use negative criticism - especially in these forums where the possibility of response from, say, Mahrez himself, is unlikely. I sensed a corner, as did MattCan, where the current of criticism was, in my view,  thoughtlessly negative - even pejorative. That's why I took it upon myself to support what he was stating.

 

To me it's of no consequence whether Matt is a long time poster and it certainly doesn't matter to me who the poster is - only what they have to state and how they state it. Respect comes not from being part of some 'old-boys' club - although often they have a knowledge of Leicester City and football in general that is admirable. And I've found myself agreeing with your views often enough - but I will plough my own furrow regardless. i will also acknowledge when I've been less than fair or accurate. I did notice a level of tension in myself after watching the game that transferred itself to these pages. I think many of us who want this to happen are finding it tough work to treat it,  the imposter as it is (as Kipling defined 'success'), with a measure of equanimity. It's important in our lives but we must remember that these guys are worthy of the highest praise because their efforts are giving us this gift - and we should tailor our responses with that in mind.

 

As to Mahrez, I reiterate he is not frail. Anyone who plays Premier football cannot be frail by virtue of its definition as the toughest league on the globe - and by the physical attention he gets from players a third heavier than he must be. He is slender of frame - ectomorphic - but his ability to control and pass and shoot at the distances and speed he does, indicates an innate muscularity - maybe fast-twitch muscle fibres - even though he resembles a long-distance runner. He is an ambler up against bulls -  maybe he's fed up with players trying to bully him. If so he needs to adopt a different perspective.

 

There was a period in December when he looked just as tired - perhaps the weight of expectation weighs more heavily on his shoulders. In contrast Vardy has the emotional resilience of a warrior. The papers have talked about his goal drought - as if the England goals meant nothing. He just hasn't had the opportunities. As the growing predominance of Leicester has worked its way into the consciousnesses of various managers and coaches they've responded by concentrating on snuffing out the potential of both Mahrez and Vardy. I think it rolls off Vardy's back - like yesterday he just did what he always does - clinical finishing when the opportunity was there. Mahrez is a different man - I think he needs emotional support from his team-mates and the rest of the club and the fans. Why shouldn't he get that when he's one of the principal architects of the position we are now in -  and there's no lack of acknowledgement by me for the rest of the lads. Maybe it's that thing that the higher you get the more envious people are of your success and the more critical of your failings.

 

I hope you understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree.

Outstanding post.

[Guest Col city fan]

Cattermole couldn't run that fast so there was no point.

I think that was the point. He saw it was Vardy, knew he couldn't make up the ground so gave up. Vardy was gone. Cattermole had no chance at that point.

[ElusiveEd]

I was told yesterday that mahrez is suffering from altitude sickness. Don't know how it can still effect some nearly 2 weeks later

 

 

Maybe they meant the dizzy heights of being top of the league.

 

Been there quite a while now. 

[RonnieTodger]

Amartey scoring really would've topped the season off, what a shame. Agreed about Souness, he was an absolute embarrassment as always.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

Anyone struggling to handle the amount of chances we've missed to go 2 up in the last 2 games? It was ridiculous yesterday, has Ulloa ever hit a shot first time without taking numerous dauby touches first? I know none of this matters when we win but the goal difference with Spurs would be in half by now if we had and although that's not as important right now as it could be we need to be ruthless in these final few games.

I personally thought we were dog mess first half, no fluency but I have the ultimate confidence in this team and Ranieri and 2nd half we were strong. I'm delighted and relieved that Vardy has got over the 20 goal mark, he deserves that and a little flurry of goals from now until the end of the season would be lovely. Kante and Drinkwater were superb 2nd half and Albrighton was more of a threat than Mahrez for once.

Talking of Mahrez, he looked tired/uninterested in parts yesterday. I know he has that casual style that makes him a nightmare to play against but we need to manage him well in these last few games to get one or two final bits of magic out of him to get us this title.

What a season. Bonkers.

Spot on. Mahrez's form is a big concern for me. I don't know weather he is tired, or if the whole thing...moves to fancy clubs...the title talk has got too much for him.The last four games he's been a passenger at best, mainly showing no inclination to to the simple things right. eg passing to your team mates.

As one of our three 'stars' we need him performing at this point. Now is the time for him to show what he's made of - when the pressure is on and to step it up. If not, he needs dropping - we cannot carry anyone with the games we have coming up. It's all about the team after all.

[Babylon]

his performance wasnt that bad and especially as bad as what some have made out to be.

As I put in the post he wasn't at his best today but dont feel the need to scrutinise his performance. It wasn't until the first goal went in did any of our players really look comfortable.

 

Well I thought it was, I thought he misplaced too many passes, got knocked off the ball and wasn't anywhere close to performing like he can. There could be any possible number of reasons why that might be, but it doesn't change the fact that he was a bit cack. Doesn't mean I or anyone else has anything against him for saying that.

 

Mahrez is Mahrez, we all know by now that he can have off spells. We probably don't need to look too far into why his performances of late have dipped, certainly no need to speculate that he wants a move, Christ he's on the verge of history, why would be sacrifice that!! But saying he was cack should be fair game.

[Max Power]

God I wish Vardy had scored after that keep ball session in the corner.

 

Amartey and Gray have shown good game intelligence and skill in their recent sub appearances. Promising signs considering their age.

[HighPeakFox]

Thanks for the response.

There are two types of criticism - indeed the word itself is non-committal - there can be negative and positive criticism. As ever it's easy to use negative criticism - especially in these forums where the possibility of response from, say, Mahrez himself, is unlikely. I sensed a corner, as did MattCan, where the current of criticism was, in my view, thoughtlessly negative - even pejorative. That's why I took it upon myself to support what he was stating.

To me it's of no consequence whether Matt is a long time poster and it certainly doesn't matter to me who the poster is - only what they have to state and how they state it. Respect comes not from being part of some 'old-boys' club - although often they have a knowledge of Leicester City and football in general that is admirable. And I've found myself agreeing with your views often enough - but I will plough my own furrow regardless. i will also acknowledge when I've been less than fair or accurate. I did notice a level of tension in myself after watching the game that transferred itself to these pages. I think many of us who want this to happen are finding it tough work to treat it, the imposter as it is (as Kipling defined 'success'), with a measure of equanimity. It's important in our lives but we must remember that these guys are worthy of the highest praise because their efforts are giving us this gift - and we should tailor our responses with that in mind.

As to Mahrez, I reiterate he is not frail. Anyone who plays Premier football cannot be frail by virtue of its definition as the toughest league on the globe - and by the physical attention he gets from players a third heavier than he must be. He is slender of frame - ectomorphic - but his ability to control and pass and shoot at the distances and speed he does, indicates an innate muscularity - maybe fast-twitch muscle fibres - even though he resembles a long-distance runner. He is an ambler up against bulls - maybe he's fed up with players trying to bully him. If so he needs to adopt a different perspective.

There was a period in December when he looked just as tired - perhaps the weight of expectation weighs more heavily on his shoulders. In contrast Vardy has the emotional resilience of a warrior. The papers have talked about his goal drought - as if the England goals meant nothing. He just hasn't had the opportunities. As the growing predominance of Leicester has worked its way into the consciousnesses of various managers and coaches they've responded by concentrating on snuffing out the potential of both Mahrez and Vardy. I think it rolls off Vardy's back - like yesterday he just did what he always does - clinical finishing when the opportunity was there. Mahrez is a different man - I think he needs emotional support from his team-mates and the rest of the club and the fans. Why shouldn't he get that when he's one of the principal architects of the position we are now in - and there's no lack of acknowledgement by me for the rest of the lads. Maybe it's that thing that the higher you get the more envious people are of your success and the more critical of your failings.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree.

Beautifully thought out and written

[Max Power]

On Mahrez, I was thinking back to the Stoke game in January. He'd come off the back of some poor form and the two missed penalties. He played really simply. When he doubled up he just passed it inside or back. Kept the tricks to a minimum, didn't try and do much and just played nicely. As we took the lead and the game opened up he had the room to express himself more and we saw that outrageous assist for Ulloa.

 

When faced with a game like Sunderland where he doesn't get the ball often and when he does hes covered in bodies, just play it simple. Players will tire, he game will open up and he'll have more room to work his magic.

[simon789us]

Behave. Mahrez has won many games this season forus thanks to brilliant pieces of skill that no-one else in this squad would have been capable of. Mahrez doesn't need a rocket up his arse, he needs the confidence to do what he does best and I believe Ranieri knows how to nurture it. By Mahrez' own admission, he got a rocket earlier this season when he was on the bench for not working hard enough and I do not believe he has been lazy lately.

There was one special run from him yesterday which would probably end up in the net six times out of ten and he was hardly on the ball all first half. As Ric Flair mentioned, we need to manage and nurture him to get one or two more magic moments from him before sending him on a long holiday to recharge.

Not denying the fact that he has been magi for us this season but in my opinion he was poor yesterday

[The Doctor]

I'd be a little more circumspect before you use the words "nonsense" and "ridiculous" in relation to what I wrote. It's dismissive and condescending and I don't appreciate it. I've written a response to MCPrussian, who, unlike you, explained what he thought - without the attitude. Maybe if you put yourself in Mahrez's position it might be clearer why he appeared "pedestrian and casual" when, mostly, he appears aware and prepared. He's carried a burden of huge expectation on himself for a long time now. People burn out - now's the time to allow a little thought in how we respond to that.

What you and mattcan said was ridiculous though - no one here has said mahrez is absymal and should be sold, there's not a load of negativity around him - and if you think there is you should check out the wellens discussion from about 3 years ago - all people have said is he looked poor yesterday. Saying he's had a bad game shouldn't be a capital offence like matt suggested.

[Fox92]

Very enjoyable day. Terrible journey, mind. 

 

Didn't think we were ever in real danger of conceding. Sunderland didn't offer much. 

 

Thought Kante and Drinkwater were class. Mahrez, yet again, looked half bothered. Gray and Ulloa were both solid when they came on, too.

[Thracian]

Outstanding post.

 

Thanks for the response.

 

There are two types of criticism - indeed the word itself is non-committal - there can be negative and positive criticism. As ever it's easy to use negative criticism - especially in these forums where the possibility of response from, say, Mahrez himself, is unlikely. I sensed a corner, as did MattCan, where the current of criticism was, in my view,  thoughtlessly negative - even pejorative. That's why I took it upon myself to support what he was stating.

 

To me it's of no consequence whether Matt is a long time poster and it certainly doesn't matter to me who the poster is - only what they have to state and how they state it. Respect comes not from being part of some 'old-boys' club - although often they have a knowledge of Leicester City and football in general that is admirable. And I've found myself agreeing with your views often enough - but I will plough my own furrow regardless. i will also acknowledge when I've been less than fair or accurate. I did notice a level of tension in myself after watching the game that transferred itself to these pages. I think many of us who want this to happen are finding it tough work to treat it,  the imposter as it is (as Kipling defined 'success'), with a measure of equanimity. It's important in our lives but we must remember that these guys are worthy of the highest praise because their efforts are giving us this gift - and we should tailor our responses with that in mind.

 

As to Mahrez, I reiterate he is not frail. Anyone who plays Premier football cannot be frail by virtue of its definition as the toughest league on the globe - and by the physical attention he gets from players a third heavier than he must be. He is slender of frame - ectomorphic - but his ability to control and pass and shoot at the distances and speed he does, indicates an innate muscularity - maybe fast-twitch muscle fibres - even though he resembles a long-distance runner. He is an ambler up against bulls -  maybe he's fed up with players trying to bully him. If so he needs to adopt a different perspective.

 

There was a period in December when he looked just as tired - perhaps the weight of expectation weighs more heavily on his shoulders. In contrast Vardy has the emotional resilience of a warrior. The papers have talked about his goal drought - as if the England goals meant nothing. He just hasn't had the opportunities. As the growing predominance of Leicester has worked its way into the consciousnesses of various managers and coaches they've responded by concentrating on snuffing out the potential of both Mahrez and Vardy. I think it rolls off Vardy's back - like yesterday he just did what he always does - clinical finishing when the opportunity was there. Mahrez is a different man - I think he needs emotional support from his team-mates and the rest of the club and the fans. Why shouldn't he get that when he's one of the principal architects of the position we are now in -  and there's no lack of acknowledgement by me for the rest of the lads. Maybe it's that thing that the higher you get the more envious people are of your success and the more critical of your failings.

 

I hope you understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree.

 

 

There are lots of ectomorphs in sport...and very good ones, including Mahrez. But having power and speed has nothing to do with a person's strength in possession and for the last couple of games and on occasions previously, Mahrez has looked an unlikely winner when confronted by opponents with strength, speed but greater bulk.

 

In boxing, some of those clashes would be called a mismatch but the answer is often quite simple. Mahrez should recognise the problem early on and put doubt in his marker's mind by laying off first time passes a bit more often rather than persisting with trying to beat people in sometimes unthreatening positions and when he's clearly having problems making any headway.

 

It would quite often help him in that his passes might cause a defence just as much difficulty as his dribbling when successful and his opponent might rethink his strategy thus offering just enough room for Mahrez to use all his strengths and win the day. sometimes he makes the mistake of taking people on too often and when not really in the best place to threaten.           

[shen]

Not denying the fact that he has been magi for us this season but in my opinion he was poor yesterday

 

In my opinion too, but so was most of the team first half. That doesn't mean he needs to be dropped or get a rocket up his backside. We're top of the league, which he has a large share in.

[Guest Col city fan]

Mahrez has been like a shining star at the club. A jewel in the crown.

Yesterday however he was awful.

[Captain...]

Thought there was some interesting analysis on MOTD2 where Vardy was looking knackered in the middle and Grey and Amartey would take it into the corner and give him a breather, where as when he was up and moving he was signalling and they would find him

[filbertway]

Thought there was some interesting analysis on MOTD2 where Vardy was looking knackered in the middle and Grey and Amartey would take it into the corner and give him a breather, where as when he was up and moving he was signalling and they would find him

 

I noticed this, there was so many times in the last 5 or 10 minutes I was just willing him to point behind the defence and make a run but it never came. 

 

Then he goes and puts in an almighty sprint in the 93rd to score our second. I suppose it's hard to appreciate just how much graft the players put in during the game.

[UPinCarolina]

Thanks for the response.

 

There are two types of criticism - indeed the word itself is non-committal - there can be negative and positive criticism. As ever it's easy to use negative criticism - especially in these forums where the possibility of response from, say, Mahrez himself, is unlikely. I sensed a corner, as did MattCan, where the current of criticism was, in my view,  thoughtlessly negative - even pejorative. That's why I took it upon myself to support what he was stating.

 

To me it's of no consequence whether Matt is a long time poster and it certainly doesn't matter to me who the poster is - only what they have to state and how they state it. Respect comes not from being part of some 'old-boys' club - although often they have a knowledge of Leicester City and football in general that is admirable. And I've found myself agreeing with your views often enough - but I will plough my own furrow regardless. i will also acknowledge when I've been less than fair or accurate. I did notice a level of tension in myself after watching the game that transferred itself to these pages. I think many of us who want this to happen are finding it tough work to treat it,  the imposter as it is (as Kipling defined 'success'), with a measure of equanimity. It's important in our lives but we must remember that these guys are worthy of the highest praise because their efforts are giving us this gift - and we should tailor our responses with that in mind.

 

As to Mahrez, I reiterate he is not frail. Anyone who plays Premier football cannot be frail by virtue of its definition as the toughest league on the globe - and by the physical attention he gets from players a third heavier than he must be. He is slender of frame - ectomorphic - but his ability to control and pass and shoot at the distances and speed he does, indicates an innate muscularity - maybe fast-twitch muscle fibres - even though he resembles a long-distance runner. He is an ambler up against bulls -  maybe he's fed up with players trying to bully him. If so he needs to adopt a different perspective.

 

There was a period in December when he looked just as tired - perhaps the weight of expectation weighs more heavily on his shoulders. In contrast Vardy has the emotional resilience of a warrior. The papers have talked about his goal drought - as if the England goals meant nothing. He just hasn't had the opportunities. As the growing predominance of Leicester has worked its way into the consciousnesses of various managers and coaches they've responded by concentrating on snuffing out the potential of both Mahrez and Vardy. I think it rolls off Vardy's back - like yesterday he just did what he always does - clinical finishing when the opportunity was there. Mahrez is a different man - I think he needs emotional support from his team-mates and the rest of the club and the fans. Why shouldn't he get that when he's one of the principal architects of the position we are now in -  and there's no lack of acknowledgement by me for the rest of the lads. Maybe it's that thing that the higher you get the more envious people are of your success and the more critical of your failings.

 

I hope you understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree.

This deserves more up-votes, if only because it's a rational, well-reasoned and un-emotional look at an issue...which is something that can be hard to find on any football forum, much less FoxesTalk on the verge of glory (or infamy) 

[Foxxed]

Scottish aren't a race, mate. Comments might be xenophobic but not racist.

I hate myself for bringing this up, but after the Picts were largely wiped out, the the celtic Scoti tribe took up residency north of the border, compared to the Angles, Saxon and Normans south of the border, and so the Scots could be called a race.

But, you know, only be a dick to others based on the sh1t they chat, rather than the land wherein they chat that sh1t, as the Confusious once said.

[Vacamion]

First "nonsense" and then "ridiculous" and then the "all people have said" - good that the majority are behind you

I think you misunderstood him.

By "all people have said" I think he meant "all that people have said", i.e. "people have merely said", not "this is the viewpoint of all the people".

Anyway, Mahrez, for all he has been brilliant for us this season, played poorly on Sunday and pointing that out is not "hating", it's fair comment.

I fully expect him to dazzle us again in the coming games.

[Guest Col city fan]

Thank fvck you've stated what I've been stating about Mahrez. They expect him to be like a stage magician - pulling rabbits out of the hat every game. I have to accept that some people look through sh1t-coloured glasses but some of the comments about him were just drivel. The best managers respond to individuals in the way that gets the best response. I think Mahrez needs to feel appreciated and supported - after all he's the guy on the receiving end of most of the hard knocks.

It's like having a conversation with Woody Allen.....

I'll sum up Mahrez in a few short sentences: mercurial, lovely on the eye, most weeks. Shite against Sunderland. As in, utter bobbins.

Bout sums it up for me. No need for war and peace.

[MC Prussian]

First "nonsense" and then "ridiculous" and then the "all people have said" - good that the majority are behind you. I defended MattCan because I thought his support for Mahrez was decent when certain commentators were expressing what I thought was unreasonable negativity, frankly, disrespect. In my view a fan supports his team until it's obvious the team or an individual or manager has 'failed' irrevocably. I've criticised Mahrez for not tracking back in the past but I watched him yesterday and he was more active that way.

Also we are all aware that players can be chivvied out of a game. Seemed to me he was trying too hard to work his magic - a player like him relies on almost sleight-of-hand (or foot). He tried gamely to do what he's been doing par excellence all season and it just wasn't working. Some observers aren't smart enough to see what's going on - someone said he was being sulky. A better word might have been 'frustrated'.

First time I saw him play was as a sub for Algeria and I could see the faintest glimmer of a potential star. The problem is, when you shine as brightly as he does, people begin to expect it all the time - then whinge when it don't happen. Struck me as too many were riding that particular band-wagon yesterday so I said my piece. There are always going to be 'fans' who are half-pint empty people - even if their team is at the top of the Premier and look damned close to winning it. I can't respect them but I understand their outlook. And I'm not implying you are one. But I don't respond well to having my views rubbished and dismissed out of hand.

I also think there was a lot of tension floating in the air about this momentous possibility - I was not as considered as I normally am in my responses. It's affecting all of us who want this so much for our team and our loyal, devoted support. If it's like this for us I don't envy Ranieri and the lads. But they're behaving like titans and however I can express my support and gratitude I will.

Nothing like making general assumptions when some people have made fair comments about one player appearing lacklustre and somewhat unmotivated in a particular game, eh? Seems to me you're a bit on a crusade here.

 

I'd like to think that the majority of Leicester fans can distinguish between criticizing a player based on an individual performance and criticizing a player just for the sake of it and that the same majority doesn't expect constant miracles from a highly-skilled player.

 

Like I've said before, Mahrez from a posture perspective is rather frail. Playing against physical teams somewhat nullifies his impact. The result of which, coupled with his own passive demeanor that day, was visible on the pitch against Sunderland.

[SpacedX]

It's like having a conversation with Woody Allen.....

I'll sum up Mahrez in a few short sentences: mercurial, lovely on the eye, most weeks. Shite against Sunderland. As in, utter bobbins.

Bout sums it up for me. No need for war and peace.

...Shame you had to edit that then.