Dan LCFC Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 I think there's a vicious cycle going on here and no party is innocent. Those tactics at the weekend are going to frustrate the players, because they were utterly awful. There was absolutely no way we were going to win the game playing that formation. A diamond with full-backs who don't even attack? This is absolutely basic stuff. It's a formation that they're clearly not capable of and I haven't got a clue what was going through his head when he decided on it. Why he doesn't try and build on the 4-3-3 at Everton I have no idea. We have some genuine balance in that formation and it's likely to bring the best out of the most of this squad in my opinion. Why he pissed around with that totally unthreatening 3-5-2 against Chelsea and that complete mess at Saints I haven't a clue. I do not believe in any formation or system where you rely on individual brilliance like a thirty yarder or a player beating 3 and scoring, and that's absolutely what they were. But it's equally fair to say the players themselves have shown nowhere near the same level of intensity in their game this season. The Champions League always was a futile excuse, conveniently embraced nationally to cover up the shortcomings of our top sides and their under-performance on the continent. I thought we were better than that. Granted, playing midweek will take its toll, but when it's still nowhere to be seen when the Champions League is long gone, and a long way away, then you realise it was just that all along, an excuse, and not the reason we've been struggling, especially when you consider our record after CL games this season actually isn't that bad. Team spirit was something we had over everyone in the division and no-one will convince me otherwise. For that to become a weakness of ours bodes horribly, because we have a pretty limited squad. It's honestly staggering how much we've ****ed this season up. The manager, director of football and players have all been awful. I'm not deluded enough to expect us to challenge again but we have not only failed to capitalise on our strongest ever position, we've actually put ourselves in a very potentially precarious one from it - what actually happens to us if we go down? We're stuck with players on top 6 wages and playing in the Championship, and I wouldn't back us to bounce either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 I agree Dan, I don't see why he's dropped 4-3-3 either. Many of us were calling for that formation after we got picked apart at Liverpool and kept calling for it as we continued to get smashed away from home. We've played it twice this season, at Middlesbrough and at Everton. Now there was a lot of dull football in those games but we did we were also pretty solid which is half the battle. Remember also that in neither game did we play with a particularly strong front three due to players not being available. It confuses me that he abandoned the formation after some relative success with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STUHILL Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 Totally guess work, but I would imagine Kasper, Vardy and Drinkwater all have quite a lot of power in the dressing room, and not always used in a positive way either. I noticed some really poor body language from Drinky and Vardy at the weekend and some of it directed at Claudio. From the outside, it looks like Claudio has bent over backwards to accommodate these players. Yes, he signed some new faces, but he kept the core the same and has been picking them all, even after playing so poorly for so long. He also stuck with 4-4-2 even though it was badly failing and remarked about him wanting to change but the players wanting to stick to the 4-4-2. That's why I am surprised if these rumours are true. I am sure Claudio is different in the dressing room, and I hope he is, as I don't want the Mr Nice guy we see infront of the cameras all the time. I can't imagine that he is unfair to any though, and can't see why there would be this rift, unless it is because he is not hands on enough maybe?! He held his hands up and took full repsonsibility for the weekends shambles too and avoided criticising the players at all. We either have some hostile players in there who are laying blame at Claudio's feet rather than there own OR they are fed up of Claudio being so passive maybe and not being more hands on? All guess work but seems very odd to me! Also, not a good enough excuse for the players to show so little effort and desire out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxhateram Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 5 hours ago, Struwwelpeter60 said: And what about the story, that, two years ago, it was the team, led by Cambiasso, who decided, in a players session without Pearson, to change the formation to 352? Do you remember? Haha the story that has been awashed as total bollocks by many of the itk on this site and also in an interview with Walshy. The story that forgets to mention that we wouldn't even have been in the prem without Pearson. In fact we could quite easily be bumbling around in League 1 like Leeds were for many years. Yes I do back the players over Ranieri because they have been here for so long and we all know what this club means to them. Pearson instilled a never say die attitude that kept us in games and kept confidence high. Ranieri has tried to change the system and the tactics. But to play his way requires a complete culture change. Souness on BT sport the other day said "why change the formula that kept them in the prem and then led to them winning the league? If it works don't fix it." I agree with him absolutely and it appears that the players feel the same way. In 'real' work you would also have the chance to give a vote of no confidence to the board, if there were several senior leaders in the business that felt that the manager was unfairly treating staff and/or stearing the ship in the wrong direction. It appears that this could well be happening right now at our club. Now I must add that I have the utmost respect for Ranieri and will forever remember the phrases and humble ways in which he led us last year. But I said at the time that I think he is very good at riding the waves, but questioned towards the end of last season if he would be any good when confidence was low (we didn't exactly play the last 10 or so games with burning confidence did we?) His career does show a pattern of second season syndrome, it appears that maybe his charm just wears off with people after a while? It happens. I know lots of managers (I.e headteachers) who drift around schools bigging them up and taking them from requires improvement to good or outstanding, then they move on and they openly admit that they move on because they are great at being an initial driving force and getting bits organised, but are not so good at man managing and keeping the confidence high in the long term. Sometimes that is just the way things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 5 hours ago, Struwwelpeter60 said: And what about the story, that, two years ago, it was the team, led by Cambiasso, who decided, in a players session without Pearson, to change the formation to 352? Do you remember? Just nothing more than a myth. It has never been confirmed by anyone. Pearson can be subtracted from the debate here. Ranieri's made some bad calls but the lack of effort has been clear. Its been clear because there has been games where the effort has been there even if the game wasn't pretty. Porto and West Ham home come to mind. Some of these players given their age need to realise a relegation will see reputation lowered and they will be on the scrapheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGBFitness Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 Player unrest after Dyer & Schwarzer left Cambiasso's plan/influence kept us up, Dyer & Schwarzers won us the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 7 hours ago, Dan LCFC said: I think there's a vicious cycle going on here and no party is innocent. Those tactics at the weekend are going to frustrate the players, because they were utterly awful. There was absolutely no way we were going to win the game playing that formation. A diamond with full-backs who don't even attack? This is absolutely basic stuff. It's a formation that they're clearly not capable of and I haven't got a clue what was going through his head when he decided on it. Why he doesn't try and build on the 4-3-3 at Everton I have no idea. We have some genuine balance in that formation and it's likely to bring the best out of the most of this squad in my opinion. Why he pissed around with that totally unthreatening 3-5-2 against Chelsea and that complete mess at Saints I haven't a clue. I do not believe in any formation or system where you rely on individual brilliance like a thirty yarder or a player beating 3 and scoring, and that's absolutely what they were. But it's equally fair to say the players themselves have shown nowhere near the same level of intensity in their game this season. The Champions League always was a futile excuse, conveniently embraced nationally to cover up the shortcomings of our top sides and their under-performance on the continent. I thought we were better than that. Granted, playing midweek will take its toll, but when it's still nowhere to be seen when the Champions League is long gone, and a long way away, then you realise it was just that all along, an excuse, and not the reason we've been struggling, especially when you consider our record after CL games this season actually isn't that bad. Team spirit was something we had over everyone in the division and no-one will convince me otherwise. For that to become a weakness of ours bodes horribly, because we have a pretty limited squad. It's honestly staggering how much we've ****ed this season up. The manager, director of football and players have all been awful. I'm not deluded enough to expect us to challenge again but we have not only failed to capitalise on our strongest ever position, we've actually put ourselves in a very potentially precarious one from it - what actually happens to us if we go down? We're stuck with players on top 6 wages and playing in the Championship, and I wouldn't back us to bounce either. Good post that, especially 4-3-3 bit been saying that myself elsewhere, no idea why we are changing a system that was getting us points on the board and through what I thought was a nigh on impossible task given our away form in winning at Goodison. Totally in agreement Claudio needs to have a word with himself over some of the decisions he's made over the last couple of weeks, he's doing us no favors at all. As for the players I am somewhat at a loss, it is not just intensity missing for me someone of them actually look much poorer footballers than they are, and I'm not even talking in comparison to the title winning team of the season harlem globe trotter like performances of last season I am talking averagely, what I'd expect to see from the likes of Huth Morgan Drinkwater Mahrez and Fuchs in particular is not there every week. It is some weeks, and I think that is the sole reason we have a safety cushion of six points, we have had some excellent wins a good performances this season especially if we are talking in all comps but too often we just do no show up and do ourselves justice. And it's not even the tonkings of the Liverpools and Man u's of this world that bothers me as I expected that this year. It's the WBA at home when you've not lost at the KP for a year, Watford, failing to build on beating City and losing at Bournemouth, Hull like results that a very hard to stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 Are the players hanging out together any more? I felt last season they all seemed to be buddies and had fun off the pitch. On the pitch this season, they all look irritated with each other. I think the issues around the formation don't help, they don't seem to know their roles in the team. Either go to 4-4-2 now we have Ndidi, and stick to it, or 4-3-3 and use the creativity of Gray (Mahrez when he is back?), pace of Musa (Vardy has slowed down), and attacking threat of Slimani to really go at teams. But we seem to be giving other teams too much respect and hoof ball doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blizzard Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 On 24/01/2017 at 04:53, Babylon said: If the Ulloa story is true, perhaps he does say one thing but do another. What Ulloa story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 4 minutes ago, Blizzard said: What Ulloa story? The one in the mercury from his agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blizzard Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 I missed it, what was the jist please? (Him wanting to go Sunderland or Brighton?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychonaut Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 1 minute ago, Blizzard said: I missed it, what was the jist please? (Him wanting to go Sunderland or Brighton?) Google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 15 hours ago, biggs said: If we lose to Derby of all teams.....omg.....that would hurt bad and arguably at that point we could seriously question whether or not big problems are brewing within. I think now we already know there are 'big problems are brewing within' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylesta Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 we need to sack Steve Walsh his scouting hs been very poor this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simFox Posted 25 January 2017 Share Posted 25 January 2017 I don't buy that the players felt they won it. We would have seen far more moves over the summer. Kante going was a release clause so can't blame him for that. I think there are just a whole bunch of multiple issues prevailing: Fame going to heads, less money for some, confusing tactics, players not performing generally, big expectations, older players losing heart, others losing motivation. Losing a key player and others regretting not leaving. Bad tudes from big personalities that are exacerbated when things go badly. Older capitalising on ventures away from the pitch, players accepting they've past their peak. Manager unable to motivate. For me the best way out of this is for Raneiri to announce his intention to retire at the end of the season. The players will play their socks of to send him off with a bang and his head high - plus they all get a new beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 14 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said: Good post that, especially 4-3-3 bit been saying that myself elsewhere, no idea why we are changing a system that was getting us points on the board and through what I thought was a nigh on impossible task given our away form in winning at Goodison. Totally in agreement Claudio needs to have a word with himself over some of the decisions he's made over the last couple of weeks, he's doing us no favors at all. As for the players I am somewhat at a loss, it is not just intensity missing for me someone of them actually look much poorer footballers than they are, and I'm not even talking in comparison to the title winning team of the season harlem globe trotter like performances of last season I am talking averagely, what I'd expect to see from the likes of Huth Morgan Drinkwater Mahrez and Fuchs in particular is not there every week. It is some weeks, and I think that is the sole reason we have a safety cushion of six points, we have had some excellent wins a good performances this season especially if we are talking in all comps but too often we just do no show up and do ourselves justice. And it's not even the tonkings of the Liverpools and Man u's of this world that bothers me as I expected that this year. It's the WBA at home when you've not lost at the KP for a year, Watford, failing to build on beating City and losing at Bournemouth, Hull like results that a very hard to stomach. I think their application has been off all season although I can kind of understand the frustration of some of them at Southampton. It just wasn't ever going to work. Nothing about it made any sense. The most sad thing for me is we remind me of Newcastle under Carver. How on earth have we gone from league winners to that in six months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheppyFox Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 I think there could be something in the increase of certain players wages and not others, compare the scenario to your own work place, it would be frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 2 hours ago, SheppyFox said: I think there could be something in the increase of certain players wages and not others, compare the scenario to your own work place, it would be frustrating. If this is the case its ****ing disgusting and the ***** need booing and haranguing until they put some effort in. Every footballer whether on £10k a week or 100k a week has got it made they should be thankful they have life so easy, selfish *****! not that someone is getting a ridiculous amount more than a ridiculous amount they recieve!! I hate when footballers get compared to a normal job! Its not even comparable Its not like a normal person slogging there guts out earning £8 an hour for packing boxes when another person doing the same job is getting £20!! The pricks earn that amount in less than 1 game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Wall Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 On 1/25/2017 at 01:01, UPinCarolina said: You're a ***king professional; do your damn job and STFU. I hope this story is a windup, otherwise I am irate. Totally agree with your sentiments. However, there's an unfortunate history of players at clubs doing this sort of thing, whether the drop off in effort is a totally conscious decision by the individual or collective is arguable (though in Chelsea/Mourinho case it looked so). The unfortunate usual end game in these cases is that the manager is removed. If the players really are not playing for him it's shameful as the wider effects on the club that pays them could be disastrous. I still maintain hope that the players are behind the manager and we get ourselves out of this mess though I can't say it with any great confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 I don't know about a total rebuild but I'd plaster the word "Fearless" across the manager's office, our dressing room, Belvoir Drive and any other relevent locations and ensure that every football decision including tactics and recruitment is taken with that word in mind. Cos this season we've mocked the word in general. In fact we've pretty much stripped the word "combative" from our vocabulary. We don't press, we don't burst forward, we don't try to keep the ball, we don't win the second balls, we don't have any creative midfielders, we don't attack in numbers, we don't support each other, we don't shoot much and we don't score goals and we don't stop people having free shots at our own goal. And people still wonder what's gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renart Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 Should have gone to Specsavers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzerfox Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 I have just received a message of one of my mates who works fr New Balance in Manchester. It reads: "Kasper Schmeichel was in work yesterday, nobody is keen on Claudio at LCFC. They think he is a fraud. He is close to the chop. Straight from the horses mouth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmarteyAndChill Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 2 minutes ago, pazzerfox said: I have just received a message of one of my mates who works fr New Balance in Manchester. It reads: "Kasper Schmeichel was in work yesterday, nobody is keen on Claudio at LCFC. They think he is a fraud. He is close to the chop. Straight from the horses mouth." "They think he is a fraud" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renart Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 8 minutes ago, pazzerfox said: I have just received a message of one of my mates who works fr New Balance in Manchester. It reads: "Kasper Schmeichel was in work yesterday, nobody is keen on Claudio at LCFC. They think he is a fraud. He is close to the chop. Straight from the horses mouth." Kasper Schmeichel works for New Balance in Manchester? Well, that is news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzerfox Posted 26 January 2017 Share Posted 26 January 2017 3 minutes ago, Renart said: Kasper Schmeichel works for New Balance in Manchester? Well, that is news! Haha..I believe he is an ambassador for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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