West Ham - Post Match Thread 2 - 3

[Finnaldo]

Just now, Kitchandro said:

Well that would make no sense, because were actually very positive in that match and lost not because of tactics but because we were playing Arsenal, who's squad cost far more than ours.

 

This isn't about Ranieri, his tactical failings this season have been and gone. These are tactical failings that we were making when Pearson was the manager and Shakespeare was heavily influential.

 

This will become a common theme going forward just as it was yet, mark my words.

 

This isn't 'a couple of iffy tactics', this is brain dead tactics that are costing us initiative in games we should have complete control of.

 

Shakey obviously has some merits as a man manager, and he may have others. But tactically I'd suggest he's weak.

 

It's the first away game under his charge following a gruelling Champion's League tie. If it becomes a 'common theme' as you suggest then that'll be pointed out at the end of the interim period. However this is the first foot he's set wrong in arguably the most confidence sapping runs of this season. It was always gonna be difficult and we came out on tops ultimately. 

 

It just seems funny to make these grand statements after he's started his tenure so well.

[Aidan]

22 minutes ago, Eagle10 said:

Atm He doesn't even worth €15M but that is because he didn't have a good season. Too many injuries, team playing bad, manager changed, AFCON. But last season he was placed 6 in Golden Boot so he was worth that price.

Good response. A lot of the folks in this forum need to be educated about football.

[49er]

Just now, AmarteyAndChill said:

That bad?

 

Just now, AmarteyAndChill said:

That bad?

I think it was worse! A heart in the mouth moment of ''he must score, oh my god, no he's missed'

[MC Prussian]

3 minutes ago, Eagle10 said:

I know that. But he still has 5 goals in PL, saying he misses several chances is false. He missed 3 or 4 all season, that isn't that many. Every play fail them, Ayew failed one worse today and he is a very good player for West Ham.

Difference is Ayew scored today, Slimani didn't. And that under easier circumstances. But hey, I'm just a football fan.

[Webbo]

Premier League

Standings

 

#	Team	GP	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	PTS
1	Chelsea	28	22	3	3	59	21	38	69
2	Tottenham	27	16	8	3	53	20	33	56
3	Man. City	27	17	5	5	53	29	24	56
4	Liverpool	28	16	7	5	60	35	25	55
5	Arsenal	27	15	5	7	56	34	22	50
6	Everton	29	14	8	7	51	30	21	50
7	Man United	26	13	10	3	39	22	17	49
8	West Brom	29	12	7	10	39	38	1	43
9	Stoke City	29	9	9	11	33	42	-9	36
10	Southampton	26	9	6	11	32	34	-2	33
11	West Ham	29	9	6	14	40	52	-12	33
12	Burnley FC	29	9	5	15	31	42	-11	32
13	Watford	28	8	7	13	33	48	-15	31
14	Bournemouth	28	8	6	14	40	54	-14	30
15	Leicester City	28	8	6	14	33	47	-14	30
16	Crystal Palace	28	8	4	16	36	46	-10	28
17	Swansea City	28	8	3	17	36	61	-25	27
18	Hull City	29	6	6	17	26	58	-32	24
19	Middlesbrough	27	4	10	13	19	30	-11	22
20	Sunderland	28	5	5	18	24	50	-26	20

 

 

 

[Eagle10]

Just now, MC Prussian said:

Difference is Ayew scored today, Slimani didnt. And that under easier circumstances. But hey, I'm just a football fan.

Me too my friend, just giving you an example, difference is you won they lost. And that goal could give them the draw, so it was a far worst miss.

[5waller5]

Just now, turtmcfly said:

Obviously we know who was supposed to be doing that. But when has he shown any ability to hold the ball up? He doesn't win headers with his back to goal, his first touch has been garbage and his passing woeful. If you want someone to primarily hold the ball up you're much better off with Ulloa. 

 

The worst thing about him is the persistent and visible moaning at his team mates. If would be irritating enough if he was playing well. 

I don;t disagree with any of that mate .... I was justifying the tactic / substitution, but agree that he's hot and cold - can occasionally hold the ball up really well and then other times it just bounces off him. Tend to agree Ulloa may have been a better sub too, but it's marginal.

[Mease]

28 minutes ago, lcfcdamo said:

I no quite amazing to bring musa on instead of gray really 

Players will be speaking to the owners about that one.

[Redouane]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Difference is Ayew scored today, Slimani didnt. And that under easier circumstances. But hey, I'm just a football fan.

That's a shit argument. Ayew played 100 minutes and slimani 25

[MC Prussian]

Just now, Eagle10 said:

Me too my friend, just giving you an example, difference is you won they lost. And that goal could give them the draw, so it was a far worst miss.

It's ok. The three goals we scored today were all down to Slimani's influence.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Closing down isn't Slimani's game, no good expecting him to change now. Not really fair to judge him when we had so little of the ball.

He had the ball a good few times today, but gave it away constantly. 

 

A poor poor signing, as for Musa; he has to be the worst player we have ever seen at the club. 

 

How could he be any less effective today? 

[AKCJ]

4 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

So from this retort you must think the second half tactics and substitutions were credible and effective? 

 

Yes we won, but the second half was very poor; we were very lucky it wasn't another away defeat. 

I've already said that the last 30 minutes is up there with the worst we've played all season.

 

Shakey got the ending wrong but the beginning so right. I imagine you've forgotten about the first half, and the games against Liverpool, Hull and Sevilla?

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

Looking forward to seeing this game later. Sometimes you just have to dog it out and after the CL game that is amazing. 4 wins in a row. Yes please!!!!! 

[MC Prussian]

Just now, Redouane said:

That's a shit argument. Ayew played 100 minutes 

He was there when it mattered. Slimani wasn't. It happens.

 

[Spudulike]

30 minutes ago, Sir Shep said:

Phew, I just hid in a cupboard for the last 10 minutes. 

Cupboard ?? I prefer a small box in these situations. I could hardly contain myself.

[Eagle10]

1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

It's ok. The three goals we scored today were all down to Slimani's influence.

Mate are you drunk? I didn't say any of that... You are losing in the argument department and just start trolling. That is sad

[Webbo]

Just now, NotTheMarketLeader said:

He had the ball a good few times today, but gave it away constantly. 

 

A poor poor signing, as for Musa; he has to be the worst player we have ever seen at the club. 

 

How could he be any less effective today? 

They all gave it away second half. He's yet to convince me he was worth the money we paid but I'm not going to write him off yet.

[langtonfox]

9 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Well that would make no sense, because were actually very positive in that match and lost not because of tactics but because we were playing Arsenal, who's squad cost far more than ours.

 

This isn't about Ranieri, his tactical failings this season have been and gone. These are tactical failings that we were making when Pearson was the manager and Shakespeare was heavily influential.

 

This will become a common theme going forward just as it was yet, mark my words.

 

This isn't 'a couple of iffy tactics', this is brain dead tactics that are costing us initiative in games we should have complete control of.

 

Shakey obviously has some merits as a man manager, and he may have others. But tactically I'd suggest he's weak.

4 out of 4 , turned the season round! Yeh, crap! 

[5waller5]

1 minute ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

He had the ball a good few times today, but gave it away constantly. 

 

A poor poor signing, as for Musa; he has to be the worst player we have ever seen at the club. 

 

How could he be any less effective today? 

Not been around long have you?

[The Guvnor]

4 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

aObviously we know who was supposed to be doing that. But when has he shown any ability to hold the ball up? He doesn't win headers with his back to goal, his first touch has been garbage and his passing woeful. If you want someone to primarily hold the ball up you're much better off with Ulloa. 

 

The worst thing about him is the persistent and visible moaning at his team mates. If would be irritating enough if he was playing well. 

This is a good point and the main point of frustration from me, considering his reputation as a fearsome header of the ball, time and time again he fails to win headers around the park, his passing is average and his finishing is not what I expected bearing in mind we were supposedly after him for quite a long time. Ulloa does most things Slim can do just a Little better IMO.

[Eagle10]

2 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

He had the ball a good few times today, but gave it away constantly. 

 

A poor poor signing, as for Musa; he has to be the worst player we have ever seen at the club. 

 

How could he be any less effective today? 

He had the ball? Yes he did, in the chance. Not much more than that, a poor signing with 5 goals and 3 assists in 12 games played...

[Aidan]

28 minutes ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Ulloa is better than slim from what I have seen...

No comparison whatsoever. Slim is much better than Ulloa from what I have seen...

[LJS]

I don't think Slimani has been a bad signing at all. He hasn't really had a run in the side and when he has played it has mostly been when we were poor.

 

There's a good player in there. We've seen glimpses of it. Musa I'm less sure of but we need to give these guys a proper go. They came into a squad that wasn't right from the off this season. Given a few matches with our renewed attacking intent I think we'll see more from them.

[Kitchandro]

3 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

He got it wrong for half an hour today so everything he did against Liverpool, Hull and Sevilla goes out of the window? Get a grip lad.

 

He's clearly got what it takes.

Now that is stupid logic. Even the worst managers have won 3 games at some point. That doesn't make them great tacticians. A good man manager, I'd suggest he is. But not a good tactician. I wasn't convinced in the Hull game either tbh, we certainly didn't press or attack as much as we might have.

 

Don't get me wrong, the performances have clearly improved since Ranieri was sacked. We've played well in the main over 4 games and the players are trying for Shakey. But I'm making a prediction here, people can disagree with it if they want, but you need to see more than just the immediate things. It's not just about 4 games, it's about what we think is going to happen next season.

 

This is exactly what Pearson did 2 seasons ago. We started with lots of confidence and played well. Then we got scared and started to sit back in matches. We made shocking tactical decisions and a team that should have finished top half was marooned at the bottom.

 

Believe me, second halves like today will continue to happen. I don't hear things often, but I've heard from an actual coach at the club that Shakespeare was basically almost in charge of tactics under Pearson. That is worrying because he was awful tactically and it cost us big time. Today was so reminiscent of Pearson it was frightening.

 

Listen, we might do ok under Shakey. I think we'll stay up now. But we'll underachieve in the long run. I can't stand underachievement. The second half today was absolutely bizarre and it is shocking how many managers cannot realise that we must, must always play on the front foot. The last 3 have all made that mistake at some point.

 

Anyway, it seems people's view on the game is completely determined by the result, and they seem unable to see what's on the horizon. The next managerial appointment is crucial, we can't afford to miss these things until it's too late. The club must take not of things like today, and ask is there another manager out there who understand the game better. There has to be.

[MC Prussian]

7 minutes ago, Eagle10 said:

Mate are you drunk? I didn't say any of that... You are losing in the argument department and just start trolling. That is sad

No, that's me being tongue-in-cheek.

 

I'll be the first one to congratulate Islam Slimani on here for scoring a terrific header against Atlético Madrid and I want him to be a success, but at £28m and from the little I've seen of him so far (due to limited appearances), I'd say Ulloa does the same with more effort and higher efficiency. Playing with Ulloa is like having a striker and a defender on the pitch at the same time, whilst with Slimani, you just don't know where it's going and usually fear for the worst.

 

If it makes you happy, I think Musa's been much more of a disappointment so far. A great goal in pre-season and has hardly ever shown the skill or promise of being a decent footballer.