RoyFox Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 5 hours ago, Babylon said: You're as delduded as them if you think we're just going to establish ourselves as a champions league side. It has got nothing to do with attitude, it's a simple fact that long term success will only come on the back of huge investment. If Arsenal and United can't get in there having spent goodness knows how much how can you expect us to. Teams will have one offs, just as we did. But people seem to think it's going to happen regularly. It isn't. I tend to agree. We were very lucky that the big clubs had suffered from either poor manager recruitment (Wenger LVG) or player recruitment, and were in transition. At the end of this summer Man City, UTD and Chelsea are going to have formidable squads with no weak links in their first 11. Liverpool will strengthen, Spurs will keep everyone bar Walker and Steve Walsh will no doubt invest wisely for Everton. Europa League qualification would be a fantastic achievement for us. We can't expect anymore IMO.
Happy Fox Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 Those clubs have to compete in Europe next season which will take its toll, if we are on it we could upset the Top 7 party again.
Babylon Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 28 minutes ago, Happy Fox said: Those clubs have to compete in Europe next season which will take its toll, if we are on it we could upset the Top 7 party again. They have the squads to cope. They've had Europe for years and teams have barely touched them at the top. Just a quick run through of recent seasons and who outside the top 7 big clubs broke through. Some of these are pre Man City pumping in money as well. 15-16 - Leicester 1st, Saints 6th 14-15 - Saints 7th 11-12 - Newcastle 5th 09-10 - Villa 6th 08-09 - Villa 6th, Fulham 7th 07-08 - Villa 6th, Blackburn 7th 06-07 - Bolton 7th 7th would be a fantastic season for a club our size usually, I think people are kidding themselves. We all want it, but I think people have lost sight of just how hard it is.
Steven Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 It's not happening then. That said I would love to keep him in a No 2 role and treat him with all the respect he deserves.
Kitchandro Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 6 hours ago, Babylon said: You're as delduded as them if you think we're just going to establish ourselves as a champions league side. It has got nothing to do with attitude, it's a simple fact that long term success will only come on the back of huge investment. If Arsenal and United can't get in there having spent goodness knows how much how can you expect us to. Teams will have one offs, just as we did. But people seem to think it's going to happen regularly. It isn't. I didn't say it was going to happen, but you're deluded if you think attitude doesn't make a difference. Do you think we won the league by accepting we were midtable fodder at best and trying to pick up draws rather than wins? In sport you have to instil a belief in yourself that you can beat anyone or you will never achieve anything of note. Our problem for the last year is we're acting like winning the league was lucky, like we didn't earn it ourselves. So we've been playing to draw half the time, not believing we can win. Before you know it we've conceded and heads drop. The point is, a lack of ambition is never excusable just because the odds are stacked against you. I'm not going to just put up with us playing shit, negative football just because we're not one of the biggest clubs in the country. That's what your Allardyce's and Pulis' want you to do. We're not talking about establishing ourselves in the Champions League for years to come anyway. We're talking about making a fist of getting there because a year ago we'd just become champions of England (easily) and to fall as far as we did in that space of time was embarrassing and far below the standards we had already set for ourselves. There doesn't have to be 2 extremes - as much as people want to push the 'fairytale' angle, it doesn't add up that our finishing positions would be so vastly different between 2 seasons. There's no reason we should be happy for the club to undo everything it had done to get us to that level so quickly. There was, and is no reason for us to drop like a stone and take our 'normal' place back amongst the nobodies. We're an above average side if managed properly. The Champions League should have been our ambition last season because we'd just won the league by 10 points. This was not hugely unrealistic even in hindsight - we had a terrible 6 months where we flirted with relegation and yet we still might have finished in the top 8 with 2 games to go. If we'd pulled our finger out and performed like we know we can on a more regular basis then I doubt we'd have been miles away. Liverpool are not a great side. Forget about the size of the club - this team was and is capable of much better than the season we've just had, with the right manager. Not for the next 50 years, in the short term. Coming up short trying to qualify for Europe is no crime. But aiming too low is one of the biggest crimes in sport. I can't stand a lack of ambition in football and this season stank of it from the first whistle to the last.
ajthefox Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 33 minutes ago, Babylon said: They have the squads to cope. They've had Europe for years and teams have barely touched them at the top. Just a quick run through of recent seasons and who outside the top 7 big clubs broke through. Some of these are pre Man City pumping in money as well. 15-16 - Leicester 1st, Saints 6th 14-15 - Saints 7th 11-12 - Newcastle 5th 09-10 - Villa 6th 08-09 - Villa 6th, Fulham 7th 07-08 - Villa 6th, Blackburn 7th 06-07 - Bolton 7th 7th would be a fantastic season for a club our size usually, I think people are kidding themselves. We all want it, but I think people have lost sight of just how hard it is. I think top 6 would be massive but Everton should not be included in the same bracket. They have an awful lot of potential, they have money and their finishes in the league have been quite consistent around 7th. But unlike the rest of the teams above them, they've only spent one season in the last 10 years in Europe beyond qualifying. It's all well and good getting 6th/7th, but it's a pointless endeavour if you get knocked out straight away like the Spuds. Don't get me wrong we've got a lot to do to ensure we are consistently pushing for Europe but we should be aiming to be beating a team like Everton in the table, not coming up short of them. This year we were dog shit for ages and as recently as the end of Feb looked like we were heading for relegation and but for a poor first half against Bournemouth and an unfortunately ruled out pen against Man City we would've been 8th and 12 points behind them. Hypothetical I know, but I've been at 3 of our last 4 games against them (watched the other one at Soar Point off my tits) and I really don't think they're that good, the rest of mid-table is just overwhelmingly average.
Kitchandro Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 52 minutes ago, Babylon said: They have the squads to cope. They've had Europe for years and teams have barely touched them at the top. Just a quick run through of recent seasons and who outside the top 7 big clubs broke through. Some of these are pre Man City pumping in money as well. 15-16 - Leicester 1st, Saints 6th 14-15 - Saints 7th 11-12 - Newcastle 5th 09-10 - Villa 6th 08-09 - Villa 6th, Fulham 7th 07-08 - Villa 6th, Blackburn 7th 06-07 - Bolton 7th 7th would be a fantastic season for a club our size usually, I think people are kidding themselves. We all want it, but I think people have lost sight of just how hard it is. And people would have been pretty happy with the top 7 this season, tbf. But as with my post above, forget 'a club of our size' - with the specific squad and manager, with the Champions League and plenty of money to offer, the top 7 should have been a minimum aim. I'm talking in the short term. Eventually all our best players would have gone and we'd struggle to replace them. But we didn't have to fall so far so quickly. Next season we should still be aiming high. If anyone can do it, it's us. All I ask is we play to win. We didn't do that too many times in the season just gone.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 6 hours ago, GaelicFox said: All this stuff about legals holding it up is pure crap i suspect this deal is NOT done but I suspect shaky is only man in frame no leaks to media suggests it's still in negotiations , but 100% not finalised no other manager is being looked at , at this stage Why have you ditched Graham for Liam?
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 5 hours ago, lgfualol said: Maybe we're waiting for Roy Hodgson to get back from his holidays before we announce it? Oh dear...don't even joke joke about it. Id actually forgotten he was in the frame!
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 17 minutes ago, Kitchandro said: I didn't say it was going to happen, but you're deluded if you think attitude doesn't make a difference. Do you think we won the league by accepting we were midtable fodder at best and trying to pick up draws rather than wins? In sport you have to instil a belief in yourself that you can beat anyone or you will never achieve anything of note. Our problem for the last year is we're acting like winning the league was lucky, like we didn't earn it ourselves. So we've been playing to draw half the time, not believing we can win. Before you know it we've conceded and heads drop. The point is, a lack of ambition is never excusable just because the odds are stacked against you. I'm not going to just put up with us playing shit, negative football just because we're not one of the biggest clubs in the country. That's what your Allardyce's and Pulis' want you to do. We're not talking about establishing ourselves in the Champions League for years to come anyway. We're talking about making a fist of getting there because a year ago we'd just become champions of England (easily) and to fall as far as we did in that space of time was embarrassing and far below the standards we had already set for ourselves. There doesn't have to be 2 extremes - as much as people want to push the 'fairytale' angle, it doesn't add up that our finishing positions would be so vastly different between 2 seasons. There's no reason we should be happy for the club to undo everything it had done to get us to that level so quickly. There was, and is no reason for us to drop like a stone and take our 'normal' place back amongst the nobodies. We're an above average side if managed properly. The Champions League should have been our ambition last season because we'd just won the league by 10 points. This was not hugely unrealistic even in hindsight - we had a terrible 6 months where we flirted with relegation and yet we still might have finished in the top 8 with 2 games to go. If we'd pulled our finger out and performed like we know we can on a more regular basis then I doubt we'd have been miles away. Liverpool are not a great side. Forget about the size of the club - this team was and is capable of much better than the season we've just had, with the right manager. Not for the next 50 years, in the short term. Coming up short trying to qualify for Europe is no crime. But aiming too low is one of the biggest crimes in sport. I can't stand a lack of ambition in football and this season stank of it from the first whistle to the last. Great post.
Babylon Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 20 minutes ago, Kitchandro said: We're not talking about establishing ourselves in the Champions League for years to come anyway. Well you quoted me, and that's exactly what I was talking about actually. It doesn't matter how much ambition you have you will not do that without a shit load of money. People keep talking about establishing us in the next level. The only level above us is the top 7 biggest teams in the country at the moment. As I keep saying, one off seasons will happen and can happen. Establishing us there will not without the money.
Babylon Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 6 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: Great post. It's not really because he's gone off on a tangent about something totally different than the original point.
Babylon Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 21 minutes ago, Kitchandro said: And people would have been pretty happy with the top 7 this season, tbf. But as with my post above, forget 'a club of our size' - with the specific squad and manager, with the Champions League and plenty of money to offer, the top 7 should have been a minimum aim. I'm talking in the short term. Eventually all our best players would have gone and we'd struggle to replace them. But we didn't have to fall so far so quickly. Next season we should still be aiming high. If anyone can do it, it's us. All I ask is we play to win. We didn't do that too many times in the season just gone. There is aiming high and being unrealistic. The way people are chucking about us going to the "next level" on here is total fantasy land stuff. You're talking short term, but my point as it has been for weeks post after post is about long term and not short term. This season I absolutely agree, as champions we should have been aiming for Top 4. That became almost impossible though the second we lost our best player, this season it will get even harder if we lose Mahrez.
ozleicester Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 When weve been relegated, many here first line was... "the table doesnt lie" When we won the league too many saw it as luck...NO! the table doesnt lie, we were the best team in England!! It will be very difficult to become a regular top 6 side, but we can do it. I dont believe Shakey is the man to do it, i believe he will present us with midtable...and thats not bad, but i dream of more Edit- having said that, Whatever the owners decide willl be fine, they havent got it wrong yet
Hitesh Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 So word is the hold up is purely administrative from what I've been told and should be announced within days. There was also legal details required around payment structure and bonuses but all part of negotiations which have been resolved.
st albans fox Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 IF the decision is made then as far as transfers are concerned, the targets will have been noticed that shakey is going to be our full time manager so that shouldn't be any issue any longer.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 44 minutes ago, Babylon said: It's not really because he's gone off on a tangent about something totally different than the original point. Well Babylon, I thought when one is reading a post, it is ones subjective opinion as to weather its a total load of shit or whether we think it's a great post or a literary masterpiece, and we comment accordingly. On this occasion I happened to agree with everything written in that irrespective of your argument.
MPH Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said: can rule out Mancini anyway I wonder if he was told he had lost out to shakey! haha! you can imagine how that must make him feel knowing that he lost out to an assistant manager
Babylon Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: Well Babylon, I thought when one is reading a post, it is ones subjective opinion as to weather its a total load of shit or whether we think it's a great post or a literary masterpiece, and we comment accordingly. On this occasion I happened to agree with everything written in that irrespective of your argument. It was a nice post that had nothing to do with the point I'd made originally. So if we're talking about it being a good post in response to mine (which I am) then it wasn't. If you want to take it into isolation away from the actual discussion then yes, it's a good post.
Babylon Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 1 hour ago, ozleicester said: When weve been relegated, many here first line was... "the table doesnt lie" The table doesn't lie... and we finished 12th. So perhaps peoples expectations realign with that for the moment.
Matt Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 This is getting boring now. Why do we have make everything long and drawn out.
foxinsocks Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 do you think they have extended the extended talks? IF so why? Even Mancini has given up waiting. TINA
Guest Posted 1 June 2017 Posted 1 June 2017 1 minute ago, Matt said: This is getting boring now. Why do we have make everything long and drawn out. Whatever changes. Nothing changes #Fearless #etc.
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