The OH Leuven Thread

[ozleicester]

Imagine.. Nigel Pearson causing division amongst fans... who wouldve thought

[shade]

6 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Must be easy talking like this when it's not your club. When you haven't seen any games. When you don't know the league, when you don't know the club's history.

I'm sure i'm not representative of all Leuven fans, but 3 weeks ago, there was still faith that he would have molded the team during prep, yet now that faith has slipped among many fans. Maybe check your source. I think for the moment, i'm more representative of OHL fans than your optimistic buddy.

If Pearson needs 4 seasons, to get the richest club of the league, promoted at the expense of 7 other and smaller clubs, and you still can't see that the guy is not right for this job, then buddy, i don't know what to tell you. There are plenty of young talented local coaches, that could do it in one or two years. Unfortunately, the Thai don't know or value them. As explained before numerous times, the longer you stay in this league, the bigger the odds to get relegated. If you are not among the 4 best teams, you will play play-downs. If you need 4 or 5 years, to get the job done, chances are that you will end up playing play-downs once or twice during that time.

I'm done here, but thanks for your insightful opinion. I'm glad Leicester fans were very patient with Claudio Ranieri btw.

 

As stated time and again. This is not the league to be patient in. Somehow this doesn't seem to get through to people here. Yes, we need to move up asap, and then, we can build. This division is a graveyard, a trap where statistically, chances of ending up playing against relegation, are double that of playing to get promoted.

i suspect this guy is a frustrated, young, local manager.

[ARM1968]

10 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Again, this is a non-argument considering the league we are in. The top two, battle for promotion, the 4 last, will battle each other in a post-season play-down. In an 8 club league... In other words, the longer it takes, the bigger the odds to get relegated, than promoted.

Sorry mate I was talking about child birth. 

[tylesta]

7 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Must be easy talking like this when it's not your club. When you haven't seen any games. When you don't know the league, when you don't know the club's history.

I'm sure i'm not representative of all Leuven fans, but 3 weeks ago, there was still faith that he would have molded the team during prep, yet now that faith has slipped among many fans. Maybe check your source. I think for the moment, i'm more representative of OHL fans than your optimistic buddy.

If Pearson needs 4 seasons, to get the richest club of the league, promoted at the expense of 7 other and smaller clubs, and you still can't see that the guy is not right for this job, then buddy, i don't know what to tell you. There are plenty of young talented local coaches, that could do it in one or two years. Unfortunately, the Thai don't know or value them. As explained before numerous times, the longer you stay in this league, the bigger the odds to get relegated. If you are not among the 4 best teams, you will play play-downs. If you need 4 or 5 years, to get the job done, chances are that you will end up playing play-downs once or twice during that time.

I'm done here, but thanks for your insightful opinion. I'm glad Leicester fans were very patient with Claudio Ranieri btw.

 

As stated time and again. This is not the league to be patient in. Somehow this doesn't seem to get through to people here. Yes, we need to move up asap, and then, we can build. This division is a graveyard, a trap where statistically, chances of ending up playing against relegation, are double that of playing to get promoted.

This is not the league to be patient in...neither is the championship which is by far one of the hardest leagues to get out of in the world. We tried chucking money at it didn't work. Got Pearson back in and he built a squad which many went on to become premier league champions 

[ALC Fox]

7 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Must be easy talking like this when it's not your club. When you haven't seen any games. When you don't know the league, when you don't know the club's history.

I'm sure i'm not representative of all Leuven fans, but 3 weeks ago, there was still faith that he would have molded the team during prep, yet now that faith has slipped among many fans. Maybe check your source. I think for the moment, i'm more representative of OHL fans than your optimistic buddy.

If Pearson needs 4 seasons, to get the richest club of the league, promoted at the expense of 7 other and smaller clubs, and you still can't see that the guy is not right for this job, then buddy, i don't know what to tell you. There are plenty of young talented local coaches, that could do it in one or two years. Unfortunately, the Thai don't know or value them. As explained before numerous times, the longer you stay in this league, the bigger the odds to get relegated. If you are not among the 4 best teams, you will play play-downs. If you need 4 or 5 years, to get the job done, chances are that you will end up playing play-downs once or twice during that time.

I'm done here, but thanks for your insightful opinion. I'm glad Leicester fans were very patient with Claudio Ranieri btw.

 

As stated time and again. This is not the league to be patient in. Somehow this doesn't seem to get through to people here. Yes, we need to move up asap, and then, we can build. This division is a graveyard, a trap where statistically, chances of ending up playing against relegation, are double that of playing to get promoted.

To be fair, if you're the richest club in the league and the structure of the league means that the longer you're in the division, the more more likely to play games to avoid relegation rather than to achieve promotion, I can see why there's more impatience than there was with us in the Championship, where 3/24 teams can go up and 3/24 teams can go down, with no mid-season split.

If you end up consistently making that split to try and achieve promotion though, and just not quite making it, is it not obvious that you're too good to go down? Also, is there no degree of confidence that if you end up in the 'play-downs', that you're one of the best teams, if not THE best team in that pool? (This is a genuine question by the way because I don't know the league, it's not an attempt to wind you or any other Leuven fan up. )

The thing with the Thais is that they can be very patient when they know that a foundation for future success is being built without the threat of regression. Cases in point:

1. The season before we won the Championship (England's second tier), we slipped from second place in February (automatic promotion) to scraping into sixth place (the final playoff place for promotion) with a last-minute winner on the final day of the regular season. It was a dramatic downturn in form, and when we lost in the playoff semifinals, a more trigger-happy owner would have fired Pearson, no doubt. They didn't, and the following season we won the division more easily than Wolves did last season and achieved promotion to the Premier League.

2. After promotion, we were rock bottom of the Premier League for most of the season, despite a hugely memorable 5-3 home win over Man Utd. The thing is, we were never truly overrun, we just kept losing. Nobody beat us by more than two clear goals that season and I remember early in the campaign a pundit saying that, in an away game against Chelsea, we played like we'd been in the Premier League for years, not that we'd only just been promoted. Now, we all know football is primarily a results-based business and Pearson could have been sacked at any point during our winless run when many of us were certain we would be relegated. He wasn't, and what followed was probably the greatest escape in Premier League history. Things suddenly clicked (many people credit others for this, to be fair) and we just started to win. We finished 14th: well safe. (The following season was the fairytale Premier League-winning season under Ranieri after Pearson was fired for non-footballing reasons.)

3. Last season, the 'new manager bounce' wore off fairly quickly under Claude Puel. After some very encouraging results and performances against Everton and Southampton, we became easy to play against and the players just didn't look like they could adapt to Puel's style of play. We slipped out of contention for European football with a whimper, being beaten 5-0 by Crystal Palace along the way. Puel could have, quite understandably, been fired at the season's end. Instead, the Thais gave him £100m to spend on new players. It's too early to say how things will pan out this season, but the early signs are good, even with a tumultuous preseason where the World Cup and a massive squad of players we don't want haven't helped us. The players we do want and the ones that we've brought in already look more able to play Puel's style of football, and we look more able to develop our own young players into first-team footballers than at any other point under the Thai ownership.

Like under Pearson, the Thai owners have shown patience when there's a solid base, minimal danger of regression, and a real sense that the club is building for the future. It's taken us 8 years since they bought the club to go from 'who knows where we'll finish' in the second tier, to being a former Premier League champion and trying to establish ourselves as a team who will play more attractive football and regularly challenge for European competition. That goal is still far from being achieved.

The sackings of Ranieri and Shakespeare were done with the real possibility of relegation in mind. There was uproar in the national press when Ranieri was given the boot. I, personally, was very sad. Without Claudio, the miracle wouldn't have happened, but I concede we were looking likely to be relegated under him the following season, and he had to go if we wanted have the best chance of staying up. The difference between not sacking Pearson when we were bottom is that we were not expected to stay up and being relegated may have resulted in Pearson keeping his job and leading us back into the Premier League after another season. With Rainieri, we were the champions of England. Being relegated with that status would've been an embarrassment. A year later, the sacking of Shakespeare also made sense with the goal of establishing ourselves as a safe Premier League side in mind.

So, after all this (and sorry for going on a bit, mate), if you look like a decent side in your division and you look like you'll be safe from relegation despite being involved in 'play-downs' or only ever playing in promotion games but not quite making it, I implore you to be patient with Pearson and the Thais because, given time, they will establish you as a team in the top division of Belgian football.

But, as I say, I don't know the Belgian league system and you may feel that your patience is tested a lot more than ours was as a result.

Anyway, good luck for the season and I hope you guys get promoted this time around 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Lizhang said:

lol, yeah. And the food tastes so good. We will be feeding you with more experienced players, when they get play time in a competitive league. Like Moore and Hirst.

Yours isn't that good a league. Both players could have got games in more competitive leagues than the Belgian 2nd division. Moore is probably your best player, we've given him you to help you, he could have been playing in the championship or on the bench for our first team. He was already good when he went to you.

Hirst? who knows? but he doesn't belong to us so it's a moot point. He was wanted by better teams than Leuven so I don't think you should be criticising the owners there either.

Clearly you have another agenda, want to tell us what that is?

14 hours ago, Lizhang said:

I can respect that. I don't agree regarding Pearson, but i also think Belgian managers are often underrated (only recently there has been renewed faith in young Belgian managers in our leagues, and more often than not, they perform a lot better than foreign coaches). The thing is, as i stated before, we are in a league of 8 teams. There is no "longterm" here, we need to get out quick, and then we can build. Staying in this league is killing us. So, maybe Pearson is a good coach for other teams, but he certainly isn't the right man at the right time for us.

You come across as a little xenophobic to be honest. How many times have Leuven won your first division? You expect immediate miracles, the world isn't like that.

 

12 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Again, this is a non-argument considering the league we are in. The top two, battle for promotion, the 4 last, will battle each other in a post-season play-down. In an 8 club league... In other words, the longer it takes, the bigger the odds to get relegated, than promoted.

Again, how often has your team battled in the top 2. you need a little patience for your very second rate team in a second rate league to progress.

 

11 hours ago, Stadt said:

Is Pearson learning Flemish?

Why would he?

All the players speak English, they don't all speak dutch.

[HighPeakFox]

I don't mind, but technically, does this thread belong in this section?

[Alex_LCFC]

3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I don't mind, but technically, does this thread belong in this section?

40 pages deep I think it's cemented it's place ?

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Alex_LCFC said:

40 pages deep I think it's cemented it's place ?

As I said, I don't mind - it just seems out of place in this section.

[Max Power]

9 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I don't mind, but technically, does this thread belong in this section?

Nigel Pearson sub-forum needed imo 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I don't mind, but technically, does this thread belong in this section?

 

23 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

As I said, I don't mind - it just seems out of place in this section.

If you don't mind why make one,let alone two, posts about it?

Clearly your posts are unlimited. 

[OhYesNdidi]

Embarrassing that posters on here try and compare Pearson to Puel. Struggling in the Belgian second division. 

[Lizhang]

48 minutes ago, FIF said:

Hirst? who knows? but he doesn't belong to us so it's a moot point. He was wanted by better teams than Leuven so I don't think you should be criticising the owners there either.

I wasn't criticising the owners for getting Hirst, i was stating that transfers of Hirst and Moore are part of what makes us a feeder club. These players come to us, to get play time, gain experience, when they prove their worth, they might be able to move up.
Hirst doesn't belong to you... if you don't see what has happened with Hirst, than debating this with you will be pointless.

48 minutes ago, FIF said:

You come across as a little xenophobic to be honest. How many times have Leuven won your first division? You expect immediate miracles, the world isn't like that.

For stating facts. Ok buddy. You think Pearson had a good understanding of what the Belgian league was like, before he got dropped here? He clearly still doesn't. Yes, Belgian coaches know our league better than foreign coaches (shocker... i mean, xenophobe!) and there has been a slew of young Belgian coaches that are bringing good enticing football with results.

48 minutes ago, FIF said:

Again, how often has your team battled in the top 2. you need a little patience for your very second rate team in a second rate league to progress.

We came down from 1st division in 2016. If we are a second rate team, you don't want to know about the other teams in our second rate league. Leuven is one of the top 10 cities in the country, we are batling teams from actual VILLAGES. Yesterday we lost in the National Cup from a team of actual amateurs, who had to go to work the same day. But sure, my (our) expectations are too high. I'm sure it's all part of the plan.

Edited 25 August 2018 by Lizhang
typo

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, Lizhang said:

I wasn't criticising the owners for getting Hirst, i was stating that transfers of Hirst and Moore are part of what makes us a feeder club.

We're all feeder clubs to a bigger team no matter where we get players from.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

@Lizhang I understand you're frustrated with your team's performances ATM but you're coming over like a whiny little bitch. People have responded constructively to your posts (well, in the main) but you are making no attempt to engage them, and becoming inflammatory to boot.

 

If you're not willing to actually respect others opinions who let's face it know NP better than yourself and use this place as an area to constantly slag off one of our greatest ever managers I'd advise you go onto the Leuven social media and forums to complain instead and FOAD from this forum.

[Lizhang]

24 minutes ago, davieG said:

We're all feeder clubs to a bigger team no matter where we get players from.

Sure, but the difference is you pick the players yourselves, your budget gets bigger when you sell a good player to a bigger club and get to invest that into new players. In our case, we don't have to pay for such a player, but we won't get rewarded (financially) either when he matures and moves on. We have no choice in the matter either. It's a bit too early to judge perhaps, and if we're talking about one or two players per year, i can live with that. But if we become a team of players we don't own, if we can't control which players are actually on the pitch (one of our biggest youth talents had to move to Fiorentina, because he was being blocked by Moore, for instance). The autonomy is completely gone.

11 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

@Lizhang I understand you're frustrated with your team's performances ATM but you're coming over like a whiny little bitch. People have responded constructively to your posts (well, in the main) but you are making no attempt to engage them, and becoming inflammatory to boot.

If you're not willing to actually respect others opinions who let's face it know NP better than yourself and use this place as an area to constantly slag off one of our greatest ever managers I'd advise you go onto the Leuven social media and forums to complain instead and FOAD from this forum.

 I think i've respected others' opinions as much as others have respected mine. But when i don't agree with people's arguments, who have no clear view of the situation, don't know the club, the league, i'm the whiny little bitch. The only reason i 'm stil posting here, is because i'm continuing the discussion when people question my views. I should respect people's opinion because they know NP better, but they don't have to respect my opinion when i'm quite positive i know OHL and the Belgian leagues better. Sure.

Edited 25 August 2018 by Lizhang

[HighPeakFox]

54 minutes ago, FIF said:

 

If you don't mind why make one,let alone two, posts about it?

Clearly your posts are unlimited. 

Sorry, you're absolutely right. I'm grossly offended, wah! 

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Lizhang said:

King Sure, but the difference is you pick the players yourselves, your budget gets bigger when you sell a good player to a bigger club and get to invest that into new players. In our case, we don't have to pay for such a player, but we won't get rewarded (financially) either when he matures and moves on. We have no choice in the matter either. It's a bit too early to judge perhaps, and if we're talking about one or two players per year, i can live with that. But if we become a team of players we don't own, 

Has your budget not grown? Has investment in your team and  infrastructure not increased?   What do you think they will do come and take all the bricks back and flatten the new training ground?

You are already getting ‘ rewarded’ financially.

I suppose king power could of waited until you were making a surplus before investing, but how long would it of taken for you to make the surplus needed to warrant the investment?

 

king power know your team needed investment before these players improve and Become a real asset wether they sell them or not..

Edited 25 August 2018 by MPH

[CosbehFox]

Tbf Lizhang’s criticism reads a little bit like many Leicester fans after the first season and half under King Power. 

They are astute however and quickly understand what’s needed. That may or may not be with Pearson as manager 

[Webbo]

Not really sure it's appropriate for us to lecture Lueven fans on what's good for their team when none of us have actually watched them nor really care.

[sacreblueits442]

....perhaps, Pearson's new disposition, is a pointer to the lack of progress so far.

The real pugnacious Pearson in charge of a lower league club would have organised and put structures in place.....

  Pictures of Pearson smiling and in a sense enjoying life seems to be at odds with the manager we know and love!!!!!!

[Bonanza]

Just to be clear: Nobody (in their right mind) in Leuven is expecting to qualify for the Champions League in 5 years, we are not even expecting to be a top 5 team in 5 years. Like I said before, most of our fans are happy with the things King Power has done to the infrastucture of the club. We all know KP has a lot of shit to clean up that our last board made. Again, we understand that the owners have a long term plan for our club and that it takes time to realize that plan. So that's not the problem.

The problem is the play on the pitch. We have a decent team. Not great, but decent. In my opinion we are in the top-3 of the league, along with KV Mechelen and Beerschot. But we are not playing like a top-3 team. Yes, we are in second place at the moment, but we were extremely lucky. In the first game we had 1 chance and we scored. Mechelen dominated us in the second half, but we came away with a draw. In the second game we won thanks to an owngoal and a goal from a cornerkick in injury time after being dominated by a team that  nearly relegated last season. We created 2 chances against them. In the 3th game we started very good and went up 1-0 after 13 minutes by playing dominant football. we should have gone up 2-0, but we missed. After 20 minutes we completely collapsed and were dominated by Beerschot. We came away with a draw, but Beerschot had enough chances tot win the game by 1-4. In the first 20 minutes we created 3 chances, after that we created 0 chances. Last night we lost 3-1 against a team of amateurs. A team that consists of truckdrivers, accountants and schoolteachers. We created 1 chance against them.

In my opinion it wouldn't be the end of the world if we don't get promoted this season, but we should be able to play better football. Maybe KP should consider bringing in Shakespeare and Walsh to help Pearson do better.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Lizhang said:

We came down from 1st division in 2016. If we are a second rate team, you don't want to know about the other teams in our second rate league. Leuven is one of the top 10 cities in the country, we are batling teams from actual VILLAGES. Yesterday we lost in the National Cup from a team of actual amateurs, who had to go to work the same day. But sure, my (our) expectations are too high. I'm sure it's all part of the plan.

I really don't understand where you get this idea that Leuven have ever been a good team - whether you are the 10th biggest city or not.

If I understand it correctly, Leuven have existed for 60 years and Stade Leuven for over 50 before that. you've made the top division for just 3 years plus one for SL and you have performed poorly in the first division in those years - for example your 2016 1st division venture was just for the year. Your only title is a 2nd division championship. Your team recently has been part of a Belgian scandal and sold up.

Sounds to me like you should be happy with what the new owners are putting in place. Given your history I'm not sure why you expect to be in the top league and doing well so quickly.

Edited 25 August 2018 by Guest

[sphericalfox]

So Cabbage is going to bolster them. I feel sorry for him that no one came in for him on loan elsewhere, but for certain he'll should be on the team sheet there.

[Bonanza]

8 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

So Cabbage is going to bolster them. I feel sorry for him that no one came in for him on loan elsewhere, but for certain he'll should be on the team sheet there.

 

This is a really big player for our club. I'm really looking forward for his debut!