The OH Leuven Thread

[chuck'em]

2 hours ago, inckley fox said:

If you consider success as just being how high up a table you finish, then obviously you're right, though I think 14th in 2015 was every bit as impressive, given expectations, as 9th in 2018. And to have brought a club up two leagues in order to achieve that has to count for something.

 

A manager's legacy is also a reflection on their success. Pearson's was that a set of players he'd cobbled together, with his appointed coaching staff, won the league a year later. Obviously we'll have to see what Puel's legacy is.

 

But generally speaking I'd consider promotions, relegations, trophies and legacies when considering a manager's success, rather than simply how far up the table we finished. By that measure Peter Taylor and Craig Shakespeare would be more successful City managers than Gordon Milne, Jock Wallace, Brian Little, Nigel Pearson, Peter Hodge, Dave Halliday, Micky Adams and Frank O'Farrell, which can't possibly be the case!

I'm just playing devil's advocate here . I think Nige did more for the club than any manager in my lifetime. He gave us hope again and gave the club a new lease of life. I think puel has the potential to match that with the way he is building a young and talented squad. We will see whether he is afforded the time that Nige was to see the project through. 

 

I'm getting off topic here though. I really hope the owners give nige the time needed at OHL because it seems a good place to build something without the pressure that caused his downfall here 

Edited 2 September 2018 by chuck'em

[Corky]

11 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

Pearson with Walsh and Shakespeare is very good. Pearson on his own...not so much. 

And, despite his overall excellent work, it has been overlooked that he does have some absolute shockers of individual games and the odd dreadful run.

 

 

[fleckneymike]

11 hours ago, Corky said:

And, despite his overall excellent work, it has been overlooked that he does have some absolute shockers of individual games and the odd dreadful run.

 

 

He certainly struggles to arrest a slide. 

[Frost]

2 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

He certainly struggles to arrest a slide. 

Unless its James McArthur, pretty good at 'arresting' him.

[Out Foxed]

14 hours ago, Frost said:

Unless its James McArthur, pretty good at 'arresting' him.

how do u mean

[Stadt]

It's a bit patronising to say to the Leuven fan who watches their games to say it'll be alright because we were occasionally poor under Pearson and it worked out in the end. Since he was sacked here he's had a rough spell at Derby and been average at Leuven, I hope he'll get it right but without Shakespeare and Walsh he's not pulled up any trees unfortunately.

[gurru991]

Because of the connection between LCFC & OH Leuven it only makes sense to have a managers that believe in the same style of football. If we are going to send our youngsters over there then we need top prep them to play Puel style footy.

[Lizhang]

Biggest Belgian sportswebsite:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsporza.be%2Fnl%2F2018%2F09%2F03%2Ffraeye-over-ohl-geen-creativiteit-geen-motivatie-geen-progre%2F&edit-text=

 

Supporters reactions on facebook (you can use facebook's translation): https://www.facebook.com/groups/10588628938/

 

Edited 3 September 2018 by Lizhang

[Suzie the Fox]

3 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Biggest Belgian sportswebsite:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsporza.be%2Fnl%2F2018%2F09%2F03%2Ffraeye-over-ohl-geen-creativiteit-geen-motivatie-geen-progre%2F&edit-text=

 

Supporters reactions on facebook (you can use facebook's translation): https://www.facebook.com/groups/10588628938/

 

Doesnt make for the best of reading if you are an OHL fan. I do feel for you guys.  

[Out Foxed]

"Pearson does not seem to like creativity or dominance"

[shen]

On 03/09/2018 at 19:22, Lizhang said:

Biggest Belgian sportswebsite:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsporza.be%2Fnl%2F2018%2F09%2F03%2Ffraeye-over-ohl-geen-creativiteit-geen-motivatie-geen-progre%2F&edit-text=

 

Supporters reactions on facebook (you can use facebook's translation): https://www.facebook.com/groups/10588628938/

 

Sounds like it's not working out so far. I'm surprised about the "lack of motivation" claim. Maybe the cultural differences and styles of coaching are too big. Or maybe Pearson has just lost his mojo.

[Permafrost]

Not sure if NFP will still be there, but I’m making the trip over for the OHL v Lommel match on 13^th October.

 

Any tips on buying tickets, where to sit etc…

(I’ve already done the important research… pubs!)

[ozleicester]

On 04/09/2018 at 01:22, Lizhang said:

Biggest Belgian sportswebsite:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsporza.be%2Fnl%2F2018%2F09%2F03%2Ffraeye-over-ohl-geen-creativiteit-geen-motivatie-geen-progre%2F&edit-text=

 

Supporters reactions on facebook (you can use facebook's translation): https://www.facebook.com/groups/10588628938/

 

just a note that, on this forum Pearson is more highly rated than even our "title winning"  manager. He is untouchable and you will be met with derision if you make even the slightest suggestion of his imperfections.

 

Good luck

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

just a note that, on this forum Pearson is more highly rated than even our "title winning"  manager. He is untouchable and you will be met with derision if you make even the slightest suggestion of his imperfections.

 

Good luck

What imperfections? 

Edited 5 September 2018 by Carl the Llama

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

just a note that, on this forum Pearson is more highly rated than even our "title winning"  manager. He is untouchable and you will be met with derision if you make even the slightest suggestion of his imperfections.

 

Good luck

It sounds like you're a bit angry about this! I also don't think it's the case. I've been accused of being a Pearsonite, but I criticised him repeatedly when he was here and some of those criticisms still stand. So here's my lengthy and probably very dull take. For instance: 

 

- In the second year of his first spell, while we did very well to finish 5th, there were few goals and the football was often dour, as we focused on tightness over enterprise.

- In his second spell, he depended heavily on the patience of the board at the end of 2011/12, the end of 2012/13 and in the middle of 2014/15 to be able to progress the club. Given the resources available and our expectations, he was lucky to last as long as he did (though, clearly, it was a good job for us that he did).

- He was slow to make obvious changes (e.g. for his final two seasons our points per game with Konchesky in the side was drastically lower than with Schlupp, yet he tended to remain first choice and was often to blame for dropping points).

- He brought more pressure on himself when times were tough by refusing to look inwards, at the defects of his players, and preferring to keep slogging away until the tide turned, while simultaneously behaving publicly with no humility whatsoever, and getting fans on his back in a bizarre attempt to divert attention from his side's flaws.

- Even though transfer policy under him was a huge success, there were inevitably some poor signings - Adams, Arjedevic, Solano, N'Guessan, Kermorgant, Neilson, Marshall, Futacs, Hamer, Upson, even arguably Wood, Kramaric. On loan you could add Delfouneso, McGivern, perhaps Keane. At times it took too long for him to say 'hold on, this guy isn't helping us', a prime case being Wood and Keane in 12/13.

 

We'll have to see if I'm met with derision for that. Hopefully not. Of course, some arguments against him are easily shouted down. Here's a few examples of popular arguments which, if you turn to them, will probably rightly be crushed within a minute:

 

- The team-building was by Walsh, not Pearson (a silly argument because Pearson was involved at the beginning and end of the process, and appointed Walsh to do the rest. The fact that Koeman's green light for Walsh at Everton was less effective than Pearson's at Leicester should really help put that one to bed).

- He was tactically awful (but he won games! Isn't that the point of tactics? Yes, the diamond formation in 14/15 didn't end up being a long-term solution, but a lot of neutral pundits also praised it to high heaven when it was first introduced, see https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/sep/21/leicester-city-manchester-united-tactical-analysis)

- His public persona was horrible and confrontational (Mourinho, Ferguson, Clough, Enrique...!)

- We were dreadful in the middle of 2014/15 (but we finished 14th, which was a great achievement, and began a run of form which would end in us winning the EPL).

- Ranieri won the league, not Pearson (correct, but if you sweep his achievement in assembling almost the entire side and bringing us up from the third tier under the carpet, and can't see that it could never have happened without both Pearson and Ranieri, then you'll argue yourself into a corner).

 

On balance, then, it wasn't all perfect (it never is! Even O'Neill had poor runs of form and bought Gunnlaugsson and Fenton for what were hefty fees for LCFC at the time), but some of the criticisms - often from people who never quite let go of the idea that Sven should have stayed, which history shows he shouldn't - are silly. Pearson was one of our best ever managers, if we begin from that standpoint, you can start to look more deeply at his flaws. If you begin with a personal conviction that he should be denied the praise he clearly earned in taking us up two leagues, keeping us there and leaving us with a side that would win the title a year later, then yeah, I could imagine people will shout you down.

 

Maybe that's not the case with you, I don't know. If you have anything new to bring to the table, though, I'd be interested to see it. Normally when people defend him, as you'd expect a City fan to, from unstructured criticism you are accused of thinking that he can do no wrong, or of banging on about him. If that's annoying, the trick might be to avoid the unstructured criticism which causes understandably grateful fans to defend him.

 

As for Leuven, I don't think Pearson's achievements away from Leicester affect how good a City boss he was any more than Ranieri's. Among our most successful managers ever - away from Leicester - were Sven and Sousa. Pleat was considered way too prestigious a manager for our club. On the other hand Gillies and Bloomfield weren't too successful elsewhere.

 

Personally, knowing how long it can take for Pearson to get things right - and how right he can get them in the end - I'd persist. But it's quite possible that, like many managers who take a big step down in level, he'll discover that what works at a good level doesn't necessarily work at that level.

Edited 5 September 2018 by inckley fox

[ARM1968]

6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

What imperfections? 

Indeed. I heard NP walked across the channel on his way to OHL. Nothing more than I’d expect. 

[ozleicester]

10 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

It sounds like you're a bit angry about this...

.... at that level.

You have obviously put a lot of thought in to this.

 

Im not particularly angry, i just feel for a fan who knows his team and league better than most ( if not all) of us do... being shouted down because he dares to suggest that Pearson is not the man for the job.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

just a note that, on this forum Pearson is more highly rated than even our "title winning"  manager. He is untouchable and you will be met with derision if you make even the slightest suggestion of his imperfections.

 

Good luck

Well, we only won the title because of Pearson = Pearson is our title winning manager

[ozleicester]

8 minutes ago, winchesterton said:

Well, we only won the title because of Pearson = Pearson is our title winning manager

logic.. also...We only won the title because of Peter Taylor

[ARM1968]

26 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

logic.. also...We only won the title because of Peter Taylor

Jock Wallace mate. 

[Blue ROI]

2 hours ago, ozleicester said:

just a note that, on this forum Pearson is more highly rated than even our "title winning"  manager. He is untouchable and you will be met with derision if you make even the slightest suggestion of his imperfections.

 

Good luck

Well after years of spoofers like Taylor, Levein, Kelly, Worthington, Allen, Megson, Holloway, and Sven you can forgive us our love of King Nigel Pearson I and all the power and glory he brought us.

 

Way to go Nigel.

 

[Bonanza]

4 hours ago, inckley fox said:

- In his second spell, he depended heavily on the patience of the board at the end of 2011/12, the end of 2012/13 and in the middle of 2014/15 to be able to progress the club. Given the resources available and our expectations, he was lucky to last as long as he did (though, clearly, it was a good job for us that he did).

- He was slow to make obvious changes (e.g. for his final two seasons our points per game with Konchesky in the side was drastically lower than with Schlupp, yet he tended to remain first choice and was often to blame for dropping points).

- He brought more pressure on himself when times were tough by refusing to look inwards, at the defects of his players, and preferring to keep slogging away until the tide turned, while simultaneously behaving publicly with no humility whatsoever, and getting fans on his back in a bizarre attempt to divert attention from his side's flaws.

- Even though transfer policy under him was a huge success, there were inevitably some poor signings - Adams, Arjedevic, Solano, N'Guessan, Kermorgant, Neilson, Marshall, Futacs, Hamer, Upson, even arguably Wood, Kramaric. On loan you could add Delfouneso, McGivern, perhaps Keane. At times it took too long for him to say 'hold on, this guy isn't helping us', a prime case being Wood and Keane in 12/13.

 

This is exactly what's going on in Leuven.

[Webbo]

Solano, Wood? Bad signings?!

[Guest Cujek]

12 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Solano, Wood? Bad signings?!

Was jist thinking the same!

[1972 Fox]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Solano, Wood? Bad signings?!

And Kramaric? Not having him as a bad signing. A player who didn't quite settle immediately but the quality was always there. In the meantime Vardy came to the fore and we went on an incredible run which eventually resulted in us winning the Premier League. Vardy and Okazaki gelled and suited our style. I think that unfortunately for Kramaric he was the right player signed at the wrong time.